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  • Connor what is he?

    Hi everyone

    So I am in the middle of Angel Season 4 and as always when rewatching a Buffyverse season I got a burst of inspiration to start a new topic. Since he features pretty promiently in this season and his powers are explored somewhat. I thought that it would be fun to examine the character of Connor and his powers. While I will be mainly looking at the power side of things other things in relation to his character are also welcome to being discussed in this topic.

    So from the show we learn a number of different things about the character of Connor he is the son of two vampires a "miracle child" and is the only known person in history to be born in this way. As a result of this he holds a number of abilities of a vampire some of these abilities include super strength, speed, stamina, reflexes, hearing, and smell. This is also teamed up with training in hunting and combat provided to him by Holtz via his up bringing in the terrible hell dimenision of Quor Toth.

    In the show the question of what is Connor has been brought up numberous times even by Connor himself. Some examples of this is Connor visiting the offices of Walfram and Hart in Habeas Corpses. Wolfram and Hart even display interest in Connor which clearly shows that they are unaware of what Connor is. Now we all know from Skip in Season 4 that Connor was brought about by Jasmine using the life that was given to Darla in the season 2 episode Reprise. However while that gives us a clear answer as to how Connor came to be. It does not tell us exactly what he is...

    So I present the question to you? What do you think Connor is? Do you think he is simply a hybrid between a vampire and a human who has the abilities of a vampire without the downfall... Do you think he is simply a regular human being endowed with supernatural energy similar to the way that a slayer is. Do you think perhaps he is a male slayer of sorts which is why he is shown to be able to at least somewhat hold his own even if not defeat a vampire slayer such as Faith. Or do you think he is something completely different all together. A type of being we have never seen before and never will again see in the Buffyverse?
    Bittersweettwit
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  • #2
    he's part-human and part-demon.

    probably about as close as possible that one could be to a male slayer... but with abilities more specifically linked to vampires.

    buffy doesn't have advanced smell or hearing... connor does... as does angel (and all vampires).

    connor is proven to be not entirely human when he gets smacked by the no-demon-violence spell on the hyperion... but physiologically he shows up human and has a human soul. he has some demon-based abilities that must have made it into his physiology mystically (and can't be detected by doctors). and angel and darla clearly can tell that the soul is a human one.

    similarly, slayers show up as human, have human souls, but have a diluted demon essence that gives them their strength. i'd imagine the furies' spell would spank them as well.
    NileQT87
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    Last edited by NileQT87; 30-12-07, 11:18 PM.

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    • #3
      He is one of a kind, so it doesn't have a name I guess.

      I think that Connor is human with the powers of a vampire. He has a human soul, he is mortal and he is alive. He doesn't have any demon things like a tail or horns. He is a normal person, only just like the slayer, he does have a part demon in him. He is stronger and faster as normal people.
      He is like a male slayer I guess, although he is faster and less strong. His powers are different, but he is a human with superpowers.

      I don't believe he is a demon, there is no indication that he is less human as Buffy or Faith.

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      • #4
        Slayers have advanced hearing, one assumes, based on Buffy's being able to find Marcie in "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" (one of my favorite moments of the series, a real moment of Slayer becoming for her).

        The inclination is to assume Connor is part demon, but I'm not sure. The only on-point evidence we have is that the sanctuary spell hit him when he attacked Angelus in "Release", but, I take everything that happened in the Hyperion while JasmineCordy was there with a grain of salt -- she could have manipulated that specifically to mess with his head.

        I personally suspect he's like a Slayer (a human with demonic powers), but with a different origin. He appears to be more agile than Slayers, and faster over ground. But Faith appeared to have him beat on straight up physical strength. He's stronger than vampires, but not as strong as Slayers. He has nearly vampiric sense of smell, and more acute hearing than we've seen of vampires or of Slayers.
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        • #5
          He he, Connor wondered this for while didn't he. Jasmine's ability to 'fix' the spell when she wanted does put things in question because it worked to further make Connor feel isolated from the group and closer to 'Cordy' who was also part demon. Even if Jasmine is immune we know the spell didn't work on Connor second time around because he managed to attack Gunn.

          I'd say a mystically enhanced human being akin to a Slayer.. One assumes if he were a part demon physiologically Angel might sense it, like he did with Doyle. I'd have to say the jury's out on that one.

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          • #6
            Good question. Yes, it's odd indeed, isn't it--- basically my thoughts are that he is mostly human.

            However, when Darla and Angel became vamps they 'traded up on the food chain' and subsequently got some kind of physical change. It affected their speed, their faces, their teeth, their everything (so the idea that a vamp is merely a demon spirit 'residing' in a human body is false) and, as we see by Connor, changes the DNA/genetic material they have to pass on to their offspring, which Connor got in terms of speed, hearing, smell- extensions on what he would have with two human parents, but not the teeth or game face aspect)

            This of course doesn't even attempt to figure out why Angel and Darla could do what they did and procreate, just a bit of the how. In my mind, anyway. So when I say he's mostly human, I'm refering to the parts of him that define him that way (ie; soul, lack of vamp teeth, lack of game face, ability to go out in sunlight, need for regular food) rather than concentrating on the non human parts which I see as being extensions of what he could have had, due to his parents being what they were.

            Make sense?

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            • #7
              I'm reasonably sure that Connor is part demon, and the most likely sort of demon is the Van-Tal--the same kind of demon that originally gave rise to vampires. He's human enough to pass during a standard infant physical, but then it's possible some of his superhuman traits hadn't appeared at that point; it could also be that some of the differences are on a biochemical level and weren't obvious to the examining physician. I've raised the question before of what might happen when Connor dies--if he already has a vampire's demonic essence in him, he might very well turn automatically.

              I'm reasonably sure that it's mentioned somewhere that a Slayer's senses are enhanced, though Buffy's seem to be less acute than average; I don't see any reason each Slayer should have the same precise degree of power. However, it does seem that their senses are not on the same level as a vampire's.

              Re: the Furies' spell--seems to me we saw Faith get in a few punches in on Angelus while the Hyperion was enchanted. That suggests that the Slayer essence is either too weak or too unusual to be affected by the spell. The same appears not to be true of Connor.
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              • #8
                buffy didn't hear marcie. she felt her moving--a sensing of air/wind/breathing (and cordelia had to shut up so buffy could detect it). slayers don't have advanced hearing or smell... or buffy would have heard angel a whole lot more often sneaking up on her. she felt a physical connection to angel, in particular, but it wasn't an aural thing, as he frequently popped up behind her... several other vampires did as well.

                on the other hand, connor could hear fred and gunn talking from across a beach and angel heard fred/gunn and things that were in the hotel from entirely different parts of the hotel. both connor and angel frequently could track something across a city by smell. buffy never exhibited such powers.

                slayers are mostly strength, advanced healing and agility. slayers are stronger than a general vampire (exceptions made for extreme size and experience differences) also, angel and penn both exhibited speed that no slayer has been seen to have. slayers and vampires also can both jump great distances and heights pretty equally.

                slayers are supposed to be able to hone in on vampires... buffy never developed that skill. she guessed by reading body language and fashion cues.
                NileQT87
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                Last edited by NileQT87; 31-12-07, 05:19 AM.

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                • #9
                  Count me on the whole 'Connor is a supernatural being' malarkey.

                  Considering his parentage, he can't be anything else but can he. Although he appears human, all his abilities point to otherwise. He's truly unique in the Buffyverse and it would be fascinating to see what type of person he would grow up to be like.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                    slayers are supposed to be able to hone in on vampires... buffy never developed that skill. she guessed by reading body language and fashion cues.
                    It's getting off topic, but you know, I was never really sure about this. Did Buffy really never develop the skill, or were her guesses accurate because she was perceiving vampires and demons subliminally? The most interesting example, actually, is Ted--did she really know something was wrong about him, or was it really just teenage upset about Joyce possibly marrying him?
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                      buffy didn't hear marcie. she felt her moving--a sensing of air/wind/breathing (and cordelia had to shut up so buffy could detect it). slayers don't have advanced hearing or smell... or buffy would have heard angel a whole lot more often sneaking up on her. she felt a physical connection to angel, in particular, but it wasn't an aural thing, as he frequently popped up behind her... several other vampires did as well.

                      on the other hand, connor could hear fred and gunn talking from across a beach and angel heard fred/gunn and things that were in the hotel from entirely different parts of the hotel. both connor and angel frequently could track something across a city by smell. buffy never exhibited such powers.

                      slayers are mostly strength, advanced healing and agility. slayers are stronger than a general vampire (exceptions made for extreme size and experience differences) also, angel and penn both exhibited speed that no slayer has been seen to have. slayers and vampires also can both jump great distances and heights pretty equally.

                      slayers are supposed to be able to hone in on vampires... buffy never developed that skill. she guessed by reading body language and fashion cues.
                      Actually, I'm fairly sure that enhanced hearing is part of being a slayer and I'm also fairly sure that Buffy could sense vampires.

                      As for Connor, I would agree that he's definitely a supernatural being of some kind, but I don't think there's any term to describe him. He the first of his kind, after all. Male slayer would be a good one to go with for now.
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                      • #12
                        As for Buffy's ability to sense vampires? I think she can or could if she actually concentrated but she's "sensed" them by looking at idiosyncrasies and clothing as well. She's also 'sensed' Angel but that could be a love thang.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                          Count me on the whole 'Connor is a supernatural being' malarkey.

                          Considering his parentage, he can't be anything else but can he. Although he appears human, all his abilities point to otherwise. He's truly unique in the Buffyverse and it would be fascinating to see what type of person he would grow up to be like.
                          Yes. I'd say the closest analogy to what Connor is would be the Children of the Senior Partners. Eve, Hamilton, and Connor look and act like humans, were created for a specific purpose by super-demonic forces (in Connor's case, that would be Jasmine), and have superpowers. Whatever you would call a being similar to the CotSP, but with different affiliations, that's what Connor is.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Veverka View Post
                            Good question. Yes, it's odd indeed, isn't it--- basically my thoughts are that he is mostly human.

                            However, when Darla and Angel became vamps they 'traded up on the food chain' and subsequently got some kind of physical change. It affected their speed, their faces, their teeth, their everything (so the idea that a vamp is merely a demon spirit 'residing' in a human body is false) and, as we see by Connor, changes the DNA/genetic material they have to pass on to their offspring, which Connor got in terms of speed, hearing, smell- extensions on what he would have with two human parents, but not the teeth or game face aspect)
                            But the only question we have to ask ourselves would genetics be considered a strong attribute in forming the being of Connor? After all as we know genetically vampires are incapable of having children and everything about them is dead, as the show states various times that the human is dead and that it is merely a demon reanimating their body. Does this mean that perhaps Connor powers don't come from Angel and Darla themselves, but rather the circumstances around his birth? Perhaps Jasmine who we know oversaw the birth was the one to choose what powers Connor was granted.

                            Originally posted by Mabus View Post
                            I'm reasonably sure that it's mentioned somewhere that a Slayer's senses are enhanced, though Buffy's seem to be less acute than average; I don't see any reason each Slayer should have the same precise degree of power. However, it does seem that their senses are not on the same level as a vampire's.
                            Yes I would have to agree with you! It is stated by Giles in WTTH (I think that was the episode) that Buffy as a slayer should be able to use her heightened senses to be able to tell from amongst the huge crowd in th bronze. The vampire in the room however this is the one aspect of being a slayer that we see Buffy never fully training herself on instead choosing to use different details about the vampires such as their fashion sense. Connor on the other hand was raised in Quor Toth the worst of the demon dimensions and was taught to use all of his keen senses. Could his extra hunting abilities be possibly similar though slightly more atune than the power that a slayer should have when it comes to sensing Supernatural beings such as vampires?

                            Originally posted by Mabus View Post
                            Re: the Furies' spell--seems to me we saw Faith get in a few punches in on Angelus while the Hyperion was enchanted. That suggests that the Slayer essence is either too weak or too unusual to be affected by the spell. The same appears not to be true of Connor.
                            Well as KoC said previously we can't take what happened in the hyperion in Release too seriously as we know that JasmineCordy has the ability to manipulate both for herself and for others which was shown through her ability to push Connor about and then we see her change it for Connor when we can see him hit Gunn.As Kana said this could have been done to mess with Connor's head.

                            Originally posted by Mabus View Post
                            It's getting off topic, but you know, I was never really sure about this. Did Buffy really never develop the skill, or were her guesses accurate because she was perceiving vampires and demons subliminally? The most interesting example, actually, is Ted--did she really know something was wrong about him, or was it really just teenage upset about Joyce possibly marrying him?
                            Well I think with Ted it was a mixture of both. The human side of Buffy was hostile towards the idea of her mother dating, while the slayer in her was at least somewhat aware of the fact that their was something wrong. This of course highlights her existing hostile feelings towards Ted. Look at how she knew not to trust his cooking or other things about him right from the beginning even before Ted started to show the less positive elements of his personality.

                            Originally posted by Ojuice5001 View Post
                            Yes. I'd say the closest analogy to what Connor is would be the Children of the Senior Partners. Eve, Hamilton, and Connor look and act like humans, were created for a specific purpose by super-demonic forces (in Connor's case, that would be Jasmine), and have superpowers. Whatever you would call a being similar to the CotSP, but with different affiliations, that's what Connor is.
                            Actually I think what you are saying would make a lot of sense however there are some things that bother me. The children of the Senior Partners are instantly connected to them. If Connor were a child of Jasmine in the same way wouldn't he of been connected to her from birth, secondly from what we can tell the children of the Senior Partners magically appear as adult humans when they are needed by the Senior Partners. Also we have never been given any indication in the show that Connor is an immortal being in the same sense as the children of the senior Partners and certainly not apart of any contract.

                            So while I think to a certain degree this makes sense. I still don't think that Connor could be considered the same type of being as Eve and Hamiltion.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kana View Post
                              As for Buffy's ability to sense vampires? I think she can or could if she actually concentrated but she's "sensed" them by looking at idiosyncrasies and clothing as well. She's also 'sensed' Angel but that could be a love thang.
                              Fortunately, I can find canonical evidence to confirm that Buffy is able to sense vampires. In Consequences Buffy says:
                              Actually, yeah. I didn't get the bad guy vibe off of him.
                              Buffy definitely does have the ability to sense demons. Not only that, she seems to rely on it to distinguish human from demon.

                              Actually I think what you are saying would make a lot of sense however there are some things that bother me. The children of the Senior Partners are instantly connected to them. If Connor were a child of Jasmine in the same way wouldn't he of been connected to her from birth, secondly from what we can tell the children of the Senior Partners magically appear as adult humans when they are needed by the Senior Partners. Also we have never been given any indication in the show that Connor is an immortal being in the same sense as the children of the senior Partners and certainly not apart of any contract.

                              So while I think to a certain degree this makes sense. I still don't think that Connor could be considered the same type of being as Eve and Hamiltion.
                              I don't think there is any point of reference for Connor. He is quite literally one of a kind and in a class all by himself.
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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Anon View Post
                                Fortunately, I can find canonical evidence to confirm that Buffy is able to sense vampires. In Consequences Buffy says:

                                Buffy definitely does have the ability to sense demons. Not only that, she seems to rely on it to distinguish human from demon.
                                Your right Buffy has chosen that to a certain extent she has mastered the abilities of sensing a demon or a vampire. However we have also never seen Buffy display the abilities that Giles describes to us that a truly powerful slayer should have in Welcome To The Hellmouth. Then again since we know Faith doesn't seem to have this ability either, and neither did Kendra from the little that we saw her. It is kind of hard to say exactly how far a slayer can go with her sensing abilities. Also to point out something in your quote Buffy herself states that she couldn't sense demon from him. Thus proving that she used something other than her senses to determine whether someone was demon or not Though nice quote.

                                Originally posted by Anon View Post
                                I don't think there is any point of reference for Connor. He is quite literally one of a kind and in a class all by himself.
                                But see thats the thing is he really? Surely Connor will at least have to be determined at some point or another. I mean how do we not know that people with his abilities will not become more common as the years go by. Especially if his children inherit his powers. So the question is will he have to be classifed as something new? Or will he and his descendant simply be placed into existing categories such as Slayers?
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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Vampmaster View Post
                                  Your right Buffy has chosen that to a certain extent she has mastered the abilities of sensing a demon or a vampire. However we have also never seen Buffy display the abilities that Giles describes to us that a truly powerful slayer should have in Welcome To The Hellmouth. Then again since we know Faith doesn't seem to have this ability either, and neither did Kendra from the little that we saw her. It is kind of hard to say exactly how far a slayer can go with her sensing abilities. Also to point out something in your quote Buffy herself states that she couldn't sense demon from him. Thus proving that she used something other than her senses to determine whether someone was demon or not Though nice quote.
                                  What? If that 'bad guy vibe' wasn't what Giles was talking about in WTTH, I don't know what was. Also, she was surprised when she didn't sense it from the Mayor. Apparently he was the exception, not the rule. Also, in the previous episode, Buffy was able to spot that Allan wasn't a vampire, and things such as fashion sense would be nowhere near reliable enough for that.

                                  But see thats the thing is he really? Surely Connor will at least have to be determined at some point or another. I mean how do we not know that people with his abilities will not become more common as the years go by. Especially if his children inherit his powers. So the question is will he have to be classifed as something new? Or will he and his descendant simply be placed into existing categories such as Slayers?
                                  They might have to invent a new catagory, but he doesn't fit into any existing one.
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                                  • #18
                                    I'm not sure we can make any assumptions about Connor having *any* direct and actual connection to Angel or Darla in a physical sense -- they have no reproductive material to contribute to him anyway, most likely. Connor was the result of a carefully orchestrated plan for Jasmine, and I suspect that whatever he is is not the result of the factors that created him, but rather the purpose for which he was created. He has personality traits in common with his parents, and certain powers, but I tend to think he is, genetically, whatever Jasmine needed him to be, since he was providing her physical make-up.

                                    Also, don't give Buffy a pass for Ted. She didn't know or even suspect. It was no different than when Wesley shot Cyber-Roger -- he was absolutely certain that was his father. Buffy thought this awful man had usurped her home and then had hit her and gave her license to fight him, and that's it.
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by Anon View Post
                                      What? If that 'bad guy vibe' wasn't what Giles was talking about in WTTH, I don't know what was. Also, she was surprised when she didn't sense it from the Mayor. Apparently he was the exception, not the rule.
                                      Yeah, but you see the problem for me is up until season 3 the villains that Buffy had faced were bad in the obvious sort of way. In season 1 she faces the master a vampire whom I think it would be very difficult to miss as being apart of the vampire category. Season 2 she faces Drusilla and Spike and Angelus. Hell if you want to talk about a demonstration of Buffy not being able to sense a vampire when he is near her and manipulating her then rewatch School Hard.

                                      Spike: Where's the phone? I need to call the police. There's some big
                                      guy out there trying to bite somebody.

                                      Buffy runs from the dance floor. Spike watches her go.
                                      That just one example, but are you seriously saying that the enhanced features which Giles describes as allowing her to sense a vampire at the other side of the room would allow for her not to sense a vampire who was actually standing near her and talking to her? I am sorry, but I just don't buy that. And I am sure if I thought about it. I could find other examples of Buffy being fooled by less than human beings. But as I said previously its hard for us to know how far the slayers sensing/hunting abilities go as we have never been shown it on the show.

                                      Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                                      I'm not sure we can make any assumptions about Connor having *any* direct and actual connection to Angel or Darla in a physical sense -- they have no reproductive material to contribute to him anyway, most likely. Connor was the result of a carefully orchestrated plan for Jasmine, and I suspect that whatever he is is not the result of the factors that created him, but rather the purpose for which he was created. He has personality traits in common with his parents, and certain powers, but I tend to think he is, genetically, whatever Jasmine needed him to be, since he was providing her physical make-up.I'm not sure we can make any assumptions about Connor having *any* direct and actual connection to Angel or Darla in a physical sense -- they have no reproductive material to contribute to him anyway, most likely. Connor was the result of a carefully orchestrated plan for Jasmine, and I suspect that whatever he is is not the result of the factors that created him, but rather the purpose for which he was created. He has personality traits in common with his parents, and certain powers, but I tend to think he is, genetically, whatever Jasmine needed him to be, since he was providing her physical make-up.
                                      Thank you KoC! Thats what I was trying to say earlier only in less elequont terms than yourself. I agree exactly with what your saying. I believe that if you were to think about it properly Connor is what Jasmine needed him to be. He has some of the traits of Angel and Darla. In fact I think in some ways Connor could be thought of as being similar to Dawn. She does have some of the attributes of Joyce though from the show we actually get a sense of her being closer to Buffy. But she still isn't Joyce's daughter. He's like Dawn in that way only his birth was real rather than implanted into the other characters heads.
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                                      • #20
                                        Originally posted by Vampmaster View Post
                                        Yeah, but you see the problem for me is up until season 3 the villains that Buffy had faced were bad in the obvious sort of way. In season 1 she faces the master a vampire whom I think it would be very difficult to miss as being apart of the vampire category. Season 2 she faces Drusilla and Spike and Angelus. Hell if you want to talk about a demonstration of Buffy not being able to sense a vampire when he is near her and manipulating her then rewatch School Hard.

                                        That just one example, but are you seriously saying that the enhanced features which Giles describes as allowing her to sense a vampire at the other side of the room would allow for her not to sense a vampire who was actually standing near her and talking to her? I am sorry, but I just don't buy that. And I am sure if I thought about it. I could find other examples of Buffy being fooled by less than human beings. But as I said previously its hard for us to know how far the slayers sensing/hunting abilities go as we have never been shown it on the show.
                                        Giles did indicate that it wasn't automatic, and required effort, so if someone caught her off guard or in a hurry, she might miss things. Buffy did make mistakes from time to time, but again this is the exception rather than the rule. I think Buffy's ability to sense vampires is much too accurate to be using a blunt instrument such as dress sense.

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