The gypsygirl Angelus killed.

[Nina]

Is there a possibility that she was a slayer? It's never told why she was so important. After hundred years her people are still making sure Angelus keeps his soul. She was really important for them. We saw Drusilla, Darla and Spike kill al lot of gypsies in the episode 'Darla'. But they were never punished for what they did, but Angelus had to be burning forever.

And there is always Dana, when she was channeling other slayers in 'Damage', she spoke in Rom?nă. Ofcourse there is a chance there was a Roman slayer before or after the killed gypsy, but still ... the Rom?nă together with the weird adoration of the other gypsies for her can be a sign that she was a slayer or potential I guess ...

[KingofCretins]

Theoretically, but I doubt it -- she appeared to have been a fairly straightforward victim to Angelus, not someone he'd have had to work hard to subdue. Wasn't she still alive when he showed her off to Darla? A Slayer likely would not have been taken so easily, unless she was pulled out of her bed, and then you run into invitation problems.

When they said she was 'special', I just thought of it as being that she was their favored daughter, or perhaps of significance to their own spiritual beliefs. A potential, that I would believe, but I don't think she was a Slayer.

[Nina]

You're right, I forgot her lack of power.

[ciderdrinker]

I'd never considered the possibility and King's right about the power thing, but I suppose she could've been a potential and therefore not quite got the strength yet.

I doubt it though because if that was the case then I'm sure it would've been mentioned at some point - that Angelus basically killed a slayer, I mean such a big deal is made of Spike having done it twice, both in the slayer and vampire communities.

I like the idea though, as it always kinda bugged me that Angelus was supposed to be the biggest, baddest mo fo of vamps but never took out a slayer? Surely, if Dru could do it then a super strong, clever and vicious gang leader like Angelus could easily have acheived it? I've heared it mentioned that Angelus was too smart to come into a slayer's radar and consequently he stayed well out of harms reach, whereas Spike "sought them out", but it seems too convenient that he never came into contact with a slayer until he met Buffy. Off topic I know but just a thought.

[kana]

Angelus never cared for such a victory. His attack on Slayers were more incidental, based upon the personal connection he had with them.

Angelus' was more about the methodical destruction of a human being, rather than the sort of attraction seeking chaos that Spike enjoyed. If Spike actively sought out slayers and only came across three in the last century then it makes sense that Angelus wouldn't come across any without making a concerted effort.

[KingofCretins]

Based on his scolding of Spike in "Fool For Love", I got the impression that, left to his own devices, Angelus would actively avoid the possibility of confronting a Slayer. I think his interest in Buffy, and later Faith, was based solely on his personal ties to them.

[Nina]

Angelus likes to play with his 'food'. If he wasn't interested in mind-****ing with Buffy and siring Faith, he would have killed them both I guess. I agree with Kana that Angelus doesn't care about a 'normal' kill. He wanted to destroy. Altough I think he would have killed Buffy in the end, if he had the time and didn't decided to destroy the world (I never understood that move ... was he losing control?), she wouldn't become a Drusilla #2.


But I think there is a possibility that he killed a slayer ... but more like a random kill. He didn't put it on his C.V. and told everyone about it. Drusilla was his C.V., his masterwork not some slayer. Drusilla killing Kendra was also never a big deal. In 'Angel', Darla doesn't seem really impressed with Buffy either. I think she would have killed a slayer also, but doesn't really care.

[KingofCretins]

In "Welcome to the Hellmouth"/"The Harvest", Darla seemed to fit the attitude about Slayers that Angelus and Spike both suggest, in "Fool For Love", that vampires have. She was not excited about the situation when she reported to the Master. Luke, on the other hand, appeared to at least want to look unimpressed. I think Darla's attitude in "Angel" was half false bravado for the Master, and half an attempt to psyche-out Buffy. I mean, she didn't choose to come after Buffy with twin semi-automatics because she thought she could take her in a stand-up fight.

[Nina]

I always thought it was smart of her to use gun's instead of a normal fight. Slayers are difficult to beat, why taking risks? Darla isn't a young stupid vampire. But you're probably right about Angelus and Darla and their view on fighting slayers.

I guess I'm with ciderdrinker, the idea that Spike and Drusilla killed slayers and the superior Angels and Darla didn't, isn't my favourite. I know it fits their persona, but still.

[ciderdrinker]

In "Welcome to the Hellmouth"/"The Harvest", Darla seemed to fit the attitude about Slayers that Angelus and Spike both suggest, in "Fool For Love", that vampires have. She was not excited about the situation when she reported to the Master. Luke, on the other hand, appeared to at least want to look unimpressed. I think Darla's attitude in "Angel" was half false bravado for the Master, and half an attempt to psyche-out Buffy. I mean, she didn't choose to come after Buffy with twin semi-automatics because she thought she could take her in a stand-up fight.

So are you saying that the Fang Gang didn't give a damn about slayers? That they thought they were above them, or that they were just an annoying downside of the job? Or that they were so powerful and dangerous to vamps that they stayed clear (Spike being the attention seeker was unusual in seeking them out) knowing that they couldn't take them?

But I think there is a possibility that he killed a slayer ... but more like a random kill. He didn't put it on his C.V. and told everyone about it. Drusilla was his C.V., his masterwork not some slayer. Drusilla killing Kendra was also never a big deal. In 'Angel', Darla doesn't seem really impressed with Buffy either. I think she would have killed a slayer also, but doesn't really care.

I don't agree with this at all. Yes, Angelus was interested in the art of death and so it would follow that messing with the vampire's main enemy would be a showstopping number for him. I don't think that Angelus would seek one out like Spike, but if he came across one he wouldn't kill her and forget it ever happened. Much more likely that would engender a plan to capture, torture and very very slowly kill her. I certainly don't think that if Angelus had killed a slayer he wouldn't "put it on his C.V.", he loved his notorioty of being bad and vicious and that would certainly up his status.

[KingofCretins]

I'd say that Spike's fixation with them was an abnormal trait, distinctive. Angelus and Darla were the sort that would probably talk a big game at a vampire social function, but were exactly the same as most vampires on the subject in general -- *afraid* of the Slayer. Darla was nearly panicked over Buffy when she and Luke reported back to the Master. Angelus was the one that introduced Spike to the idea, by bringing up the Slayer as a consequence of dumb decisions, something that would kill him, not fight him.

[Nina]

I don't agree with this at all. Yes, Angelus was interested in the art of death and so it would follow that messing with the vampire's main enemy would be a showstopping number for him. I don't think that Angelus would seek one out like Spike, but if he came across one he wouldn't kill her and forget it ever happened. Much more likely that would engender a plan to capture, torture and very very slowly kill her. I certainly don't think that if Angelus had killed a slayer he wouldn't "put it on his C.V.", he loved his notorioty of being bad and vicious and that would certainly up his status.

I didn't want to say that Angelus would forget about it. But I don't see him telling everyone about the kill a century after it happened like Spike does. Angelus is known as a dangerous monster anyway. Spike used it as proof he was dangerous. Angelus had Drusilla already as a warning for him being vicious.

I also think Buffy was a special case for Angelus. He wanted to break her for making him human. He had a chance to destroy Buffy because of her feelings for Angel. I don't think Angelus is strong enough to torture and break a random slayer. The risk is too big for him, but I can see him killing a slayer in a fight after she tracked him down or something. And just do with the slayer what he did with Jenny.

[ciderdrinker]

Angelus: That's right, brothers and sisters. The rumours are true. Angel has left the building and I am back.

The demons and other creatures clap and cheer and welcome him back into the fold.

Angelus: But hey, I'm no different than the next guy. I put my victim's skin on one leg at a time.


Does that sound like someone who'd kill a slayer and not brag about it? He's absolutely loving his fame here. I'm fairly certain that he would've bragged about what he did to Buffy in Sunnydale, if he hadn't have been re-ensouled. If he had managed to kill Buffy, or worse turn her at that time, (and consequently never got ensouled again) don't you think that he might have considered that even more vicious than what he did to Drusilla, damning someone who was the antithesis of evil who co-incidently was totally in love with an ensouled vampire, who just happened to be him?

Sounds like a dream come true for Angelus, to me

[Nina]

Angelus: That's right, brothers and sisters. The rumours are true. Angel has left the building and I am back.

The demons and other creatures clap and cheer and welcome him back into the fold.

Angelus: But hey, I'm no different than the next guy. I put my victim's skin on one leg at a time.


Does that sound like someone who'd kill a slayer and not brag about it? He's absolutely loving his fame here. I'm fairly certain that he would've bragged about what he did to Buffy in Sunnydale, if he hadn't have been re-ensouled. If he had managed to kill Buffy, or worse turn her at that time, (and consequently never got ensouled again) don't you think that he might have considered that even more vicious than what he did to Drusilla, damning someone who was the antithesis of evil who co-incidently was totally in love with an ensouled vampire, who just happened to be him?

Sounds like a dream come true for Angelus, to me

Maybe ... I don't really know. I'm almost sure that if he would have broken Buffy and killed or turned her ... he would have been really proud and showed that to the world. But I doubt that if he would just have killed her, and he was free in the year 2100, he would still mention her. I think that he loved to show how vunerable Buffy was and that he could hurt her only because Buffy made him feel vunerable. But if Buffy and Angel never met and Angelus did happen to be in Sunnydale just like Buffy, he would have been tempted to hurt her and spend so much time torturing her. Buffy was innocent but not as pure as Drusilla once was.

Does somebody else also think that Angelus acted weird in season 4 of Ats? In the cage he was really creepy but when he was free he was acting kind of blunt. He was not as subtle as before, he was more like Spike. This version of Angelus (I split them, I know I shouldn't ... I can't help myself) I see killing a slayer and tell everybody about it. But this version of him I don't see torturing Buffy with little things like paintings and roses. This Angelus looks more as somebody who would rape a woman until she breaks.

[kana]

I must admit I preferred the Angelus of season 2 of Buffy, I always felt that Angelus was less free when he was out of cage because of the chaos happening in LA, something he didn't like.

I'm not sure but someone once wrote that Angelus was different because Angel was. Angel's personality was very different in Season 4 compared to Season 2 of Buffy and Angelus in turn was also different based upon that but anyway OT! lol

[vampmogs]

I liked Angelus in s2 of Btvs a lot better as well, he was kind of cheesy after coming out of his cage in Ats s4, and acted very different to how he had back in Sunnydale. He was more subtle in Sunnydale, and I liked this better which is probably why I enjoyed him more in the cage because he wasn't so over-the-top. Although he is probably my favourite villain in the verse and my favourite vampire, I do cringe when he is paying Faith out about the "big bad boogeyman" it was just so lame.

[sueworld]

I think thats Angelus was written differently and seemed to have less 'bite' because now Angel had his own show, and the writers were scared of making him look too evil as it could have ended up alienating parts of their audience somewhat.

I prefer season two Angelus too, A rather vicious eyeliner wearing individual, who always seemed slightly on the 'camp side' too on occasion, but always a joy to behold though.

[KingofCretins]

There were two Angelus (Angelii?) in Season 4 of Angel -- one was the Lector-like, "Teddy Bear Picnic" singing serial killer mindgaming evil genius locked in the cage, and the other was the rock star, almost self-parodying Angelus in "Salvage". I think they got him back to his appropriate level of manipulative bad-assery by fight time in "Salvage" and especially in "Release", though.

[buffyholic]

I never thought of that but they say that they cursed him because the girl he killed was a favorite among the clan. I think that?s all.

[Shin]

Based on his scolding of Spike in "Fool For Love", I got the impression that, left to his own devices, Angelus would actively avoid the possibility of confronting a Slayer. I think his interest in Buffy, and later Faith, was based solely on his personal ties to them.

I think you are forgetting something though, "Fool For Love"-Angelus is souled Angelus. We later learn that on Angel.

Also why the Gypsies really want to keep Angel cursed. After he killed the girl. Spike, Drusilla and Darla started killing hald their tribe for them to take his soul again. That helps I guess.