Jasmine

[major_buffy_fan]

I am just wondering i havnt watched angel in long time but i keep seeing refrences to jasmine in season 4 could someone please remind me who she is and what role she plays becasue if i remember big bad for season 4 was a big beast guy

[Nina]

Jasmine was a PTP (Power That Be), she decided to make an end to the pain and problems of humanity. She took over the body of Cordelia, and the Beast was her slave. The Beast was actually a way to distract the people, nobody paid attention to Evil!Cordy. In the end of season 4, she gets her own body and everbody who sees her, is under her spell. She took the freedom en free will of the people and decided for them.

[skinless]

I didnt Like Jasmine I thought That it was Just For lack of better words Stupid But Either way I didnt like it.

[ThePoet's<3]

Jasmine was a baaaaaaad storyline... Try to forget it ever happened...

To expound on Nina's great explanation - Supposedly Jasmine was created through Cordy by Connor... Connor was her father... *shudders*

[NileQT87]

it's one of the best storylines of either show. and one of the most psychologically deep. and connor is awesome.

the beast was just a big dumb lackey. jasmine was the brains. smash = good vs. evil marxist utopia and subsequent removal of freedom of choice. the whole message of the season was freedom of choice/will. the point was is that jasmine took away many characters' freedoms of will (including cordelia's--which was the point). ironically, the only person who acted on free will during the entire season was connor--which is why he is so brilliant. jasmine worked with brainwashing or using their feelings to her advantage, but it was holtz who brainwashed connor--bringing it more personal to angel than just some big bad.

[Nina]

I liked the idea of Jasmine. I hated the way it went.
Season 4 has a lot of great episodes but the evil!Cordy was awful.
I think I loved the story more when Jasmine came out of a unknown character.

But I agree with NileQT87, it was a brilliant storyline (just not the part with Evil!Cordy).

[NileQT87]

i prefer evil-cordy to saint-cordy. that was an improvement. the clothing and creepy music alone. some of my favorite scenes in season 4 are those in inside out where you see evil-cordy going lizzie borden on manny and holding the axe as she walks with and slaughters the virgin. and of course, the reveal at the end of orpheus.

i think people need to have a good rewatch of season 4. it is unfairly maligned by a lot of people that didn't like it when it originally aired because they didn't sit down all at once at watch it all together on dvd. it works better on dvd than over several months on tv. people didn't understand the clues in spin the bottle or understand it wasn't cordy in apocalypse, nowish, so they just stated they hated it. it wasn't character assassination anymore than illyria was to fred. it was just another example of an actor/actress playing another character that wasn't their original character.

the part with evil-cordy was brilliant because it actually succeeded in making people NOT guess what was going on until all was revealed. it wasn't a spoon-fed plotline, unlike most. and it explained plenty when the time came through flashbacks as to exactly what had been going on.

granted, i watched the entire season 4 for the first time in a 2-day period instead of a 9 month period. that might be why i like it more than a lot of people who watched it during a greater period of time. it probably sucked for people who thought they could watch a joss whedon show occasionally.

did angelus make you hate angel? did illyria make you hate fred? then jasmine shouldn't make you hate cordy. none of the characters are the same beings.