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  • The Black Thorn

    I finished watching Angel S5 last night and I am completely lost. Could somebody please explain to me the Black Thorn storyline and where it came from?

  • #2
    I don't think it's too complicated. Basically it is a secret underground society which seeks power. There's not too much more to it.

    It might seem as though it came from nowhere and I guess that is because the series got canceled and the writers had to rush to put together something big for the gang to fight against, imo.
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    • #3
      I loved the idea of the Black thorn. It may have jumped up and bit us on the ass from nowhere but i thought it made a lot of sense. Angel started off with the little picture, saving one soul at a time. When Wolfram & Hart became more prominent the picture started to grow and grow. The fact that all these powerful beings had formed their own society and had big big plans is scary as hell. And why not. They have power AND brains. SCARY!!!

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      • #4
        it didn't come completely out of the blue. they had been showing all the members of the black thorn the whole season. cyvus vail was clearly being set up as somebody angel would want to deal with (he threatened connor). characters like senator helen brucker, izzerial "izzy", the devil, the fell brethren, archduke sebassis and the sahrvin clan had been popping up all season long (starting with sebassis in "life of the party"). a lot of episodes had them being introduced as being close with wolfram & hart. in fact, "just rewards" set up the idea of demons being installed in human bodies, like brucker.

        it's all there if you think about it.

        "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
        "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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        • #5
          I disagree with you Nile, in that I don't think most of those characters (some clearly were) were planned to be a part of the Black Thorn from their conception. I feel that they were all characters/groups used for either a particular standalone or for comic effect, that were then placed into the Black Thorn solely because they had appeared before and it made them all quickly recognisable (no/little introduction needed in the last two episodes, which would have to be really busy with wrapping up information anyway), and reflected continuity in the show.

          I feel that the Black Thorn was a bit of a scramble to find something to bring the show to a great close, but I also didn't mind because even though it was put together quickly on cancellation, it was still fairly consistent with the important issues of season 5 and the deal with Wolfram and Hart.

          So overall, I approve.

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          • #6
            I didn't particularly like The Black Thorn; in all bluntness and honesty it made Angel act like an idiot, even if he was just pretending. I agree with Kold about it being a scramble; it seemed to just pop out of the blue, in my opinion. I did like the mixing of all the previous characters though, if not anything else.

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            • #7
              I think it felt kinda forced too. I mean, yeah we were introduced to the Black Thorne (except those three human members) over the course of the final season, but we have no idea what they do or why it was so important to take them out. I like to imagine that the CoTBT was Wolfram and Hart's power centre on earth. Maybe the wealth and power of Wolfram and Hart was only possible because of the CoTBT's existance. However, this is speculation and fanwanking on my part. It was never explicidly stated what they do, which is kinda a big deal considering that the suicidal nature of the final mission and the fact that it caused LA to be sucked into hell. That's a huge freaking deal.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
                It was never explicidly stated what they do.
                Well that's not exactly true - it is stated what they do:-

                Lindsey: Jeez. Are you guys always this slow? Huh? Starts with an "a," ends in "pocalypse." It's a well-oiled machine, this circle. These people grease the wheels, keep the parts in place. Make sure man's inhumanity to man keeps rolling along.
                Wesley: We thought the senior partners were responsible for the apocalypse.
                Lindsey: The senior partners are on a different plane. Down here...it's the players in the circle that make things happen.

                and

                Angel: We're in a machine. The Black Thorn runs it.

                Think of it as a war. Good on one side and evil on another. On the side of Evil, the Senior Partners are the "government" making the big decisions. The Black Thorn are the "high ranking military" and report back to the SP to advise them on courses of actions - to help them make their decisions. Below them you have the whole demon world as "soldiers" to carry out their orders.

                A government at war is only as good as it's intelligence, and therefore without the high ranking military it is acting blind with no real focus. Angel's plan is to make that situation arise even if it's only temporary, just to remind the SP that they don't have all the power and the side of Good is still a formidable force to be reckoned with.

                Whilst I agree on first watching it does seem rushed and "Where did that come from?", on subsequant watchings it makes more sense, and fits in very well with the whole story of redemption for the show.
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                Peter Capaldi is the 12th Doctor

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                • #9
                  Well they were a secret society, I don't think we're meant to know *everything* about them.. besides the basic jist of them being the evil of the evil. Cider pretty much said it all, but to me it didn't feel forced at all, but totally inspired and I could really get into it. It fitted really well with the back story of Cordelia giving her visions to Angel etc... be interesting to see how the visions effect him in After the Fall. Hope they don't just forget about them.. could be a lot of cool stories.
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                  • #10
                    it didn't feel forced at all,
                    I do agree, Although I wouldve Liked to see what wouldve hapened had they had a six season and were able to devolop that Storyarc a little, But Back on Topic It does fit in very well with the whole story of redemption and Being able to aleast show that he can Still do good in a world that is run by Evil.
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                    • #11
                      last season

                      i think the black thorn where brought into it well i mean it did mention angel having visions and they must b stopped and i thought angel had turned evil but it turned out he wasnt which was cool but i can't belive they cancelled the series it was a gr8 show

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