Cordelia/Jasmine, etc...

[ficbitch82]

I have a couple of questions to ask regarding this arc and the things that happened before/after. I'm attempting to write a fic that's post/during YW, but there are some things that are pretty confusing to me because I haven't watched much of S4/S5.

The episodes I did watch - and I had to ignore most of the content around them, if I'm honest - were Spin the Bottle, Awakening, Deep Down and You're Welcome. I tend to avoid the rest of the episodes so as not to go postal when I think of how they killed my favourite character. (In my version of Angel, Cordy kept the visions, Skip never happened and Connor didn't get kidnapped into a hell dimension and I like it here, LOL)

My questions are these:

We know that in Birthday, Skip made Cordelia part demon. Does that mean that from everything from Birthday onwards, that just wasn't Cordelia? It's my understanding (and, to be honest, there's a lot of hope in here!) that the Beast didn't take over Cordelia until Spin the Bottle...but I could be wrong.

Does that mean that Jasmine was controlling Cordelia from 'Birthday'?

Or was it when she came back as Amnesia!Cordy?

Also, and this is just minor speculation on my part, was it ever made clear that the whole thing was a set-up from the moment Cordelia got her visions? Skip makes it pretty clear in Birthday that humans were never supposed to get the visions, I kind of wondered if that was maybe an angle that was looked at on the show.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[kana]

Well as far as I understand it Jasmine was on the higher plane so she could only take over Cordy when she was on that plane.
It's uncertain whether Gunn or Wes is right about amnesiac Cordy: either it was a fake out (which would be a waste of time really I guess) or a side effect of descending on a lower plane.

As for Cordy getting the visions? Well Skip is a lying manipulator, however it could be free will on Doyle's part and anything else is the PTBs, W&H or Jasmine wanted to use and manipulate Angel et al.

[Maria]

Well as far as I understand it Jasmine was on the higher plane so she could only take over Cordy when she was on that plane.
It's uncertain whether Gunn or Wes is right about amnesiac Cordy: either it was a fake out (which would be a waste of time really I guess) or a side effect of descending on a lower plane.

As for Cordy getting the visions? Well Skip is a lying manipulator, however it could be free will on Doyle's part and anything else is the PTBs, W&H or Jasmine wanted to use and manipulate Angel et al.

This is how I understand this too. I believe Jasmine saw an opportunity to exploit Cordy's dilemma in Birthday. I don't believe she manipulated Doyle to give Cordy the visions. Skip and Jasmine are both liars and Skip just wanted to intimidate the AI team so they will not interfere with the birth of his evil mistress.

[ficbitch82]

It's uncertain whether Gunn or Wes is right about amnesiac Cordy: either it was a fake out (which would be a waste of time really I guess) or a side effect of descending on a lower plane.

From what I gathered, it was Cordy up until STB, though I wondered if it was ever made clear on the show. It would have seemed a waste of time for the 'fake-out' - especially if Jasmine was controlling Cordy then and knew all her memories and such.

I don't believe she manipulated Doyle to give Cordy the visions. Skip and Jasmine are both liars and Skip just wanted to intimidate the AI team so they will not interfere with the birth of his evil mistress.

I was hoping it hadn't gone that far back, LOL. It would have made the other storylines kind of cheap, I guess.

Thank you both for your help!

[Amber]

My questions are these:

We know that in Birthday, Skip made Cordelia part demon. Does that mean that from everything from Birthday onwards, that just wasn't Cordelia? It's my understanding (and, to be honest, there's a lot of hope in here!) that the Beast didn't take over Cordelia until Spin the Bottle...but I could be wrong.

Does that mean that Jasmine was controlling Cordelia from 'Birthday'?

Or was it when she came back as Amnesia!Cordy?

Skip makes it pretty clear in Birthday that humans were never supposed to get the visions, I kind of wondered if that was maybe an angle that was looked at on the show.

Naw, they established that Cordy was taken over by Jasmine once she returned to earth from being a higher being. And as far as Skip making it clear that humans weren't supposed to get the visions and becoming part demon, one could assume that her recieving the visions was a means to an end for her agreeing to becoming part demon by not only showing her what a hero she could be, but giving her that burden and responsibility, and then her life being threatened as a result. Or one could also assume that season 4 was a trainwreck and didn't really make sense... hahhaha. But hey, what can ya do?