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  • Angel: After the Fall Issue #1 Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

    This doesn't actually come out until November, but with all the speculation of the preview and the "every post has spoiler tags" thing we have going on the comic thread, I think it needs its own thread.

    Angel: After the Fall #1 Preview

    I'm in happy, happy agreement with the idea of "After the Fall" not resolving the 'ships. Or, if it does, it does so by simply realizing they're over.

    We don't really know anymore what the time frame that "After the Fall" will cover is -- it obviously picks up "a few months" after "Not Fade Away", which still makes it presumably before "The Long Way Home", but we don't know if it will actually extend into the time frame during which Season 8 is taking place.

    As far as I'm concerned, the only thing that they ever have to deal with about the Angel corner of the Buffyverse is to explain why the stuff in LA doesn't really preoccupy the Scoobies (for which I'm thankful... please don't retcon us out of that).
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  • #2
    The 12 issues of the run will be broken into arcs, separated by a month after each arc. A special issue will fill in each month that a regular series issue isn't being released. The first special will be called "First Night" and will feature several stories looking at other characters in the mythos who will not be playing larger roles in the main story.


    Remember Beta George? The psychic fish from Asylum and Shadow Puppets? Yeah, he's been inducted into canon. We'll have to wait until we get the first issue of Angel: After the Fall to see if this means that Asylum and Shadow Puppets have been retro canonized as well. Those comics, I feel, deserve their place in the canon of the Buffyverse.


    Brian Lynch: "The cast was about to fight a fight that they were going to lose, and this series deals with the fallout of that; Angel knew going in that he was going to lose, and this is the fallout of him taking a stand against a force that he couldn't beat"


    Chris Ryall (IDW): "It will show Angel and his team dealing with very heavy issues like the fact that they were actually defeated at the end of the show and what that means to Angel."
    November 2007

    Posted by PatShand at 11:02 AM 0 comments Links to this post

    Labels: Angel, Angel: After the Fall, Brian Lynch, Joss Whedon, News
    That explains some of the rumors of why someone who looks like Gwen and Connor and his gang.

    I do hope they bring in the Spike: Asylum and Shadow Puppets gang! I'm not crazy about Beta George - but if they could bring Beck!! Woohoo! Or even Tok! But that would also bring Lorne back!


    continued from quote above about the last issue of Spike: Shadow Puppets -
    Speculation: This wouldn't normally get a speculation category, but with "Angel: After the Fall" coming out next month, I had to do it. The presence of "Spoiler Wesley" introduces that fact that this--maybe--might take place after "Not Fade Away." If so, Gunn is alive... (REMEMBER everyone, this section is, as the title says, pure speculation). Lorne was talking to a 'Charlie' on the phone, trying to convince him that they should do children shows. If so, it means that Lorne is still hanging with--at least some of--the Fang Gang.
    If you are not reading Shadow Puppets a quick run-down of what he is talking about:

    WARNING: Spike: Shadow Puppets Issue #4 Spoilers!!

    Spike, Lorne, Tok, Beck and Beta George are trying to keep Smile Time from taking over the world. Smile Time fights back by looking into Spike's file from W&H and pulls out puppets from the A-Team: 2 Gunns - Pre-W&H Gunn and Post-W&H, 3 Wesleys - "Classis Wesley", "Spoiler Wesley" and "New Wesley", a puppet who is half Illyria and half Fred, Cordy and Connor puppets, and a Drusilla puppet. All headed by a Angelus puppet - NOT Angel. These puppets fight Spike to distract him from getting to Smile Times secret weapon Dicky the Duck. LOLOL!! However, Spike learns a valuable lesson - finally: "He is a People who Bloody damn well needs People". While he's tied up with the puppet gang, Tok, Beck, Beta George and Lorne all playing their key postions on "Team Spike" defeat Smile Time.

    On the way home to LA Lorne talks to someone named "Charlie".

    So we may have some "clues" as to what the first arc will be about.

    The only way Gunn could survive "you have about 20 minutes left" (Illyria) is for one of the Fang Gang to bite him - or he was bitten by one of the Vampires he fought. But could Wesley be back as well??
    -TP<3
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    • #3
      am i the only one who doesn't like brian lynch's self-promotion? and i think the whole beta george the psychic fish, shadow puppets, etc... retro-canonization is a BAD idea. it's one thing to canonize a continuation of a show in comic form, another to canonize back comics that are, imo, on shaky ground. smile time on its own was on shaky ground for ats--it was pretty much saved by the fact that w&h was making angel into a puppet metaphorically (or they thought they were--angel used that against them). that's the only ground it stands on. turning the rest of the characters into puppets so they can tear each others' felt is just retarded... it totally neglects the one strong point of the episode--mostly it felt a lot like lightening attempts to appease the wb to start with.

      we get that lynch loves spike. that's all fine and well... but despite telling us he knows the show is called angel, he sure still seems focused on spike. the dragon thing... why do i not think that was joss' idea? especially since lynch seemed really excited about it--and he seems most excited by his ideas rather than joss' (whose input feels utterly lost here--so far i haven't seen his fingerprint on anything we've heard). where's the depth coming? demon brothels so far isn't that direction. so far i'm not getting a drama vibe. i'm getting a comic action/bad comedy/chicks with breasts vibe.

      it's one thing to hear about angel dealing with losing a battle... another to get a puff the magic dragon fanboy dream riding on a dragon scene with absolutely no emotions coming across angel's face. in fact, the focus of the first several pages isn't even angel. it's the bloody dragon and demons. fitting him into the frames is almost like an afterthought, and his one closeup looks more like a promo portrait than an actual expression of what he's feeling. and yes, i agree with vampmogs as he said in another thread... the faces are cold.

      there's something off for me about lynch's attitude that is rubbing me all sorts of wrong. and i wasn't blown away by his writing either. his directional choices--what he chooses to focus on when he's blogging, stuff that he gets personally excited about (a lot about his sillier invented characters), imo, is stuff that is entirely missing the flavor of the show.

      i'm so bummed about this so far. i could completely change my mind when i finally get to read it. i HOPE i change my mind. i HOPE i'm completely wrong. in the right hands this could have been a billion times better than btvs season 8. so far, i'm not feeling it.

      i have hopes for a angel/connor arc left. that's about it.

      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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      • #4
        Spoiler for off topic reply to something...
        Spoiler:


        smile time on its own was on shaky ground for ats--it was pretty much saved by the fact that w&h was making angel into a puppet metaphorically (or they thought they were--angel used that against them). that's the only ground it stands on.
        I very strongly disagree with that! Smile Time is probably one of my favourite episodes of Angel, and aside from a couple (Soul Purpose, Damage) one of the few I genuinely loved in season 5. The way it subverts the image of the big swishy hero, the way it pricks any pompous notions Angel might have of himself, or people might expect of a hero...genius. It works, for me, as a companion piece to Soul Purpose - the hero forced into a helpless position, a position that forces him to show and feel humility...and then clawing his way back...the moment when he vamps out, showing he's more than just a puppet. It reminds me a little of Helpless in season 3 of Buffy. Only much, much funnier. I'm gonna tear you a new puppethole, bitch!

        Sidebar, ever noticed that calling someone "bitch" on a Joss show is a surefire way to get your ass kicked? Witness warren calling Buffy bitch (say goodnight bitch) or the ghost calling Cordy bitch, or the puppet calling Angel bitch...Joss, waging a one man war on that word! Or showing how to reclaim it.


        Retro-canonising does seem a dodgy tactic, as it makes the idea of canon seem a bit shaky - as if they can't decide what's real and what isn't.

        So, who are the people we thought were Gwen etc? I'm confused.


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        • #5
          why do i not think that was joss' idea? especially since lynch seemed really excited about it--and he seems most excited by his ideas rather than joss' (whose input feels utterly lost here--so far i haven't seen his fingerprint on anything
          Strangely enough I get the impression that it was Joss's idea. It would fit in with the 'fairy tale vibe' that he seems to be pushing in the season 8 comics.

          I'm resevering my judgment on the Dragon until I've at least read a few issues, as it seems utterly pointless to do otherwise. Images can be so misleading sometimes, and so I need to get a handle on the story and dialog first.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm not worried about Lynch and retconning based on Shadow Puppets. The reason? Shadow Puppets and Asylum are *not* canon. The only IDW books that will be part of the Buffyverse canon are "After the Fall".

            I approve of the dragon, tentatively, the way I approve of Giant Dawn. It's just great to do the stuff you can't do on TV, and a dragon as a character is one. I like dragon myths that treat them as being very sentient, very intelligent creatures, and if this one is being written that way, I think it would be neat.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by ThePoet's<3 View Post
              That explains some of the rumors of why someone who looks like Gwen and Connor and his gang.

              I do hope they bring in the Spike: Asylum and Shadow Puppets gang! I'm not crazy about Beta George - but if they could bring Beck!! Woohoo! Or even Tok! But that would also bring Lorne back!


              continued from quote above about the last issue of Spike: Shadow Puppets -


              If you are not reading Shadow Puppets a quick run-down of what he is talking about:

              WARNING: Spike: Shadow Puppets Issue #4 Spoilers!!

              Spike, Lorne, Tok, Beck and Beta George are trying to keep Smile Time from taking over the world. Smile Time fights back by looking into Spike's file from W&H and pulls out puppets from the A-Team: 2 Gunns - Pre-W&H Gunn and Post-W&H, 3 Wesleys - "Classis Wesley", "Spoiler Wesley" and "New Wesley", a puppet who is half Illyria and half Fred, Cordy and Connor puppets, and a Drusilla puppet. All headed by a Angelus puppet - NOT Angel. These puppets fight Spike to distract him from getting to Smile Times secret weapon Dicky the Duck. LOLOL!! However, Spike learns a valuable lesson - finally: "He is a People who Bloody damn well needs People". While he's tied up with the puppet gang, Tok, Beck, Beta George and Lorne all playing their key postions on "Team Spike" defeat Smile Time.

              On the way home to LA Lorne talks to someone named "Charlie".

              So we may have some "clues" as to what the first arc will be about.

              The only way Gunn could survive "you have about 20 minutes left" (Illyria) is for one of the Fang Gang to bite him - or he was bitten by one of the Vampires he fought. But could Wesley be back as well??

              Brian Lynch has said the only character from Asylum and Shadow Puppets that will be appearing in After The Fall is Betta George and it was Joss who requested it because he really liked the character.Beck and Tok! will not be appearing.Brian was actually saying yesterday over at the IDW board about the fact that he really hopes he gets to write those two characters again one day maybe in a one-shot or something down the line because he won't be writing them in After The Fall.

              I'm not sure if Betta George will have a big role in After The Fall but he'll be appearing.Also,and I can't remember where,Lynch indicated that Betta George and Spike in After The Fall might not have any knowledge of meeting each other from Asylum/Shadow Puppets continuity.If that's true then Asylum and Shadow Puppets aren't actually being retro canonized really but just bringing a character that Joss liked into the series.

              Brian Lynch also addressed this yesterday on the IDW board.


              Speculation: This wouldn't normally get a speculation category, but with "Angel: After the Fall" coming out next month, I had to do it. The presence of "Spoiler Wesley" introduces that fact that this--maybe--might take place after "Not Fade Away." If so, Gunn is alive... (REMEMBER everyone, this section is, as the title says, pure speculation). Lorne was talking to a 'Charlie' on the phone, trying to convince him that they should do children shows. If so, it means that Lorne is still hanging with--at least some of--the Fang Gang.

              http://forum.idwpublishing.com/viewt...=165&start=555

              Some light spoilers for Spike:Shadow Puppets #4


              Spoiler:
              YAY! thanks for reading it, I love that you guys put this much thought into it. It makes our hard work seem beyond worth it. Thanks thanks thanks!

              And I actually thought about whether or not this was post or pre NOT FADE AWAY, and while it does in fact refer to Wesley's death, what I always thought was these guys are demons, they know stuff we don't. Smile Time could be one step ahead of the game, you know? Demons from hell aren't nuthin' to muck with.

              Also, I agree that "Spoiler Wesley" is awful, it's a dark, dark joke...made by demons. I think they'd love yanking out the dead ally of Spike (oooor hinting that he will die to Spike, who is a bit too busy to analyze everything).

              Same goes for Cordy and Connor making out: Smile Time is cruel.



              So the time frame here is vague.Lynch seems to indicate here I think that Shadow Puppets is set before NFA

              Comment


              • #8
                From what I heard so far only Beta George would be canonized. The others are wishful wantings! (There was a poll once over on Whedonesque about which Spike: Asylum character would you like to see return in Angel: After the Fall. That's where Beck, Tok and Beta George were "hoped" to be canonized.

                However, I am glad ot hear that Brian might revisit Beck somewhere down the road... Even the Shadow Puppets #4 implied the gang may get together again... Until then - Spike will be playin Maijong with his next-door-neighbor...

                I really don't think people have to worry about too many of the "chicks with breasts" being an issue! (Sorry guys!) Only the "chick fodder" for want of a better descriptor have been "Pimped out with breasts" in Lynch's Spike comics. They are usually the "black hat" ladies or just chicks he wants the reader to be sure are not "important" to the storyline. Tok and Beck had very "slight figures" (Joss' terminology for small boobs). And I think Lynch is very aware that Joss doesn't go in for the "balloon" figure girls. The demon chicks on the cover with Spike - DEMON chicks - i.e. - black hats - fantasy chicks.

                And Lynch likes Spike - and he has received much praise from Spike fans about his "writing for Spike" language. When you read his lines for Spike - you "hear" Spike! That's very integral to this character. So - Lynch has a right to his Spike kudos. But I'm sure he will no doubt know he is writing an Angel comic book.

                This was from Wiki...
                After the Fall will be written by Brian Lynch with supervision by Joss Whedon and is designed as a twelve-issue maxi-series, with stand-alone "specials" published between the story arcs.[2] According to Whedon, the lack of budget constraints allows Angel's world to expand in ways that were never possible with the television series:

                " It will definitely use Season 6's proposed stories as inspiration, but it's not exactly Season 6.[4] "

                At certain intervals, the main series will take a break for a month and special one-off or spotlight issues will be published during the interim. The first special will be entitled "First Night", and will be published either after issue five or six of After the Fall.[2] After the Fall is set to introduce Betta George, a fish-like character from Brian Lynch's series Spike: Asylum and Spike: Shadow Puppets, into the series.[5]
                On Brian Lynch's myspace blog, he revealed an art panel from the first issue which seems to reveal recurring characters Gwen Raiden and Angel's son Connor along with another character.[6]
                That remark from Joss about it not being Season 6 was also reiterated by Scott Allie at the Buffy Season 8 Comic Panel at Dragon*Con in September. Scott said that "IDW jumped the gun a bit calling it 'Angel Season 6'".

                Also the "another character" is often talked about being a blond woman - perhaps Harmony or Anne.

                http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...ogID=307040752

                Here's the link back to Lynch's myspace with the picture. Scroll down just a bit.

                Who does the "blond" look like?? I think Harmony. Especially after she had betrayed Angel in the end of Season 5 - I think she might make it up to him by fighting with his team.

                But Nina would make a better guess - a She-Wolf would be a great asset in a fight like this!

                I think the appearance of GWEN is going to be GREAT! I always liked her and Angel together!!! After all - she made his heart go "Pitty-pat"!! Not even Buffy could do that!!!!

                Take a look at Angel: After the Fall Issue #3 Covers!

                Issue Three Covers

                Spoil over here!!

                Why is Illyria trying to kill Angel?
                ThePoet's<3
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                Last edited by ThePoet's<3; 06-10-07, 04:25 AM.
                -TP<3
                "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
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                • #9
                  Thanks for the info!

                  I happened to like Gwen and I think it would be great if they could incorporate her into the story. She did just sort of run off as the end was coming. I would like to see her her return.

                  I'm really excited for the series. I always like AtS over BtVS and this is such fantastic news! In case I hadn't mentioned it yet...
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                  • #10
                    But Nicki would make a better guess - a She-Wolf would be a great asset in a fight like this!
                    You mean Nina?

                    I don't think the blonde is her.Doesn't have have the right feel for that character as shown in the image.Nina has no fighting skills and she only has her wolf abilities in wolf form.Plus Angel sent her away in Power Play.If L.A. was put into hell,Nina wouldn't be there.

                    I think it's more likely to be Anne.Anne can handle herself in a fight,she was in Not Fade Away and it looks like the group is surrounded by a bunch of kids which could be the kids from her shelter.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Spoiler:
                      oh, thank you for the 3rd covers. i think i like urru's better in this case. though i don't hate the other (thankfully). but i like the imagery of illyria looking like she's about to kill angel. actually, there's something very angel/connor in "home" about it... the arm raised ready to slash. instead of a knife in connor's leg, there's a sword in angel's jacket. as for the other cover, the dragon's reflection in the byzantine axe actually looks cool here.

                      i think urru's first cover and the demon-spike covers are the two best. but the issue #1 variant is still my favorite. this third variant would have to be the second best piece of his cover work, by far.

                      i wonder what's up with the symbols here on the urru cover. one of them looks like the blair witch project symbol. another is an abstract celtic griffin like the one tattooed on angel's back. i think i also see saturn, taurus and the male symbol. well, as for taurus--david is one (may 16). the air date for "becoming, pt. 1" was also in may (may 12)--which was the birth of angelus--the gypsy girl incident was a birthday present. cordelia's birthday is may 22 and she was talking about angel's upcoming birthday in offspring--which granted, aired in november, but cordy's "birthday" episode was aired in january, so season 3 ats does not line up with cordy's birth date (may 22).

                      so, i'm guessing the taurus is both a reference to david's astrological symbol and in all likelihood, angel's as well. the blair witch symbol on there is a representation of the "microcosmic man"--it seems related to the pentagram. there's also a "?" scythe in there a.k.a. the glottal stop--slayer lore anybody?

                      the most interesting though is the abstract griffin, however...

                      Celtic Griffins: An ancient creature embraced by many cultures, the Celtic animal griffin is a symbol of duality. Part eagle, part lion (depending on the region ? even part serpent, horse or dog), the meaning of the griffin reflects is dual physical form by presenting a balance of both good and not so good qualities.

                      The griffin's more likeable qualities include nobility, gentleness, and justice. Depicted on ancient stone tombs, griffins are the guardians and protectors of life, and remain loyal in their protection even in the afterlife. Griffins count nobility, vigilance, virtue and strength among their many positive attributes. The griffin is an incredibly strong symbol, and used only when the mightiest gods' attention needs to be captured, and reserved only when the need is greatest.

                      Misused, or invoked for selfish reasons, the griffin brings about gluttony, vengeance, ferocity, and violence.


                      i'm pretty darn sure that's anne, for several reasons:

                      1) harmony and darla wouldn't be caught [un]dead in outdated long spandex shorts ('90s aerobicise much?), a sports bra and sneakers. also, darla's still dead/ghostly.
                      2) anne probably would wear something like that, as she's more of the thrift shop and hand-me-downs type.
                      3) nina might possibly... but the street gang behind them leans me more towards anne.
                      4) we saw anne in the last episode of ats. it would make gunn's "last day" actually purposeful beyond, 'hey, a familiar face!'.

                      connor and gwen are probably the two best additions here... and i dear hope they stay on like starring cast members this 'season'.

                      hmm... i wonder why joss is making btvs season 8 "official", whereas ats' not-so-season-6 is "unofficial" (a.k.a. glorified fanfiction that we get to believe until he tells us what's official or not)? why?
                      NileQT87
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                      Last edited by NileQT87; 06-10-07, 01:43 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BAF View Post
                        You mean Nina?

                        I don't think the blonde is her.Doesn't have have the right feel for that character as shown in the image.Nina has no fighting skills and she only has her wolf abilities in wolf form.Plus Angel sent her away in Power Play.If L.A. was put into hell,Nina wouldn't be there.

                        I think it's more likely to be Anne.Anne can handle herself in a fight,she was in Not Fade Away and it looks like the group is surrounded by a bunch of kids which could be the kids from her shelter.
                        Yes! Thank you BAF - corrected that mistake!

                        I can see Anne as the blond but I can also see both NINA and Harmony! Nina may have come back to help Angel - and if they want to bring a new love interest into the mix - well they had started it with her. However, I do like Gwen better for that role... But doubtful they will waste precious panel space with romance.

                        Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
                        Spoiler:
                        oh, thank you for the 3rd covers. i think i like urru's better in this case. though i don't hate the other (thankfully). but i like the imagery of illyria looking like she's about to kill angel. actually, there's something very angel/connor in "home" about it... the arm raised ready to slash. instead of a knife in connor's leg, there's a sword in angel's jacket. as for the other cover, the dragon's reflection in the byzantine axe actually looks cool here.

                        i think urru's first cover and the demon-spike covers are the two best. but the issue #1 variant is still my favorite. this third variant would have to be the second best piece of his cover work, by far.

                        i wonder what's up with the symbols here on the urru cover. one of them looks like the blair witch project symbol. another is an abstract celtic griffin like the one tattooed on angel's back. i think i also see saturn, taurus and the male symbol. well, as for taurus--david is one (may 16). the air date for "becoming, pt. 1" was also in may (may 12)--which was the birth of angelus--the gypsy girl incident was a birthday present. cordelia's birthday is may 22 and she was talking about angel's upcoming birthday in offspring--which granted, aired in november, but cordy's "birthday" episode was aired in january, so season 3 ats does not line up with cordy's birth date (may 22).

                        so, i'm guessing the taurus is both a reference to david's astrological symbol and in all likelihood, angel's as well. the blair witch symbol on there is a representation of the "microcosmic man"--it seems related to the pentagram. there's also a "?" scythe in there a.k.a. the glottal stop--slayer lore anybody?

                        the most interesting though is the abstract griffin, however...



                        i'm pretty darn sure that's anne, for several reasons:

                        1) harmony and darla wouldn't be caught [un]dead in outdated long spandex shorts ('90s aerobicise much?), a sports bra and sneakers. also, darla's still dead/ghostly.
                        2) anne probably would wear something like that, as she's more of the thrift shop and hand-me-downs type.
                        3) nina might possibly... but the street gang behind them leans me more towards anne.
                        4) we saw anne in the last episode of ats. it would make gunn's "last day" actually purposeful beyond, 'hey, a familiar face!'.

                        connor and gwen are probably the two best additions here... and i dear hope they stay on like starring cast members this 'season'.

                        hmm... i wonder why joss is making btvs season 8 "official", whereas ats' not-so-season-6 is "unofficial" (a.k.a. glorified fanfiction that we get to believe until he tells us what's official or not)? why?
                        WOW Nile! You really analyzed that picture!!! I didn't look that closely!! Also, maybe the Celtic because Angel/Liam was from Ireland. It could just be a shout out to his origins.

                        I noticed the scythe as well - but it doesn't have the Slayer wooden spike on the end. Not sure if it's related to the Slayer line or not.


                        In regards to the "Season 6" stuff, I think it just means this is not "Season 6 Angel" - yet? I think because so many people wanted to know "what happened" in the alley the night of the Big Fight that Joss decided to give some answers.

                        Maybe we'll get Angel Season 6 after this story arc.
                        -TP<3
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                        • #13
                          Joss said "After the Fall" isn't "Season 6" mostly because it's relatively short. It is canon, though, just as much as Season 8 is canon. As opposed to "Asylum" and "Shadow Puppets" which aren't canon.
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                          • #14
                            Yes - that would be correct - it's more of a story arc.

                            And no Spike: Asylum and Shadow Puppets are not canon - however, Beta George who is a character from both is coming to ATF as a canon character.
                            -TP<3
                            "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
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                            • #15
                              But doubtful they will waste precious panel space with romance.
                              The nature of this story I don't think lends itself to having a romance in it either.

                              Joss said "After the Fall" isn't "Season 6" mostly because it's relatively short. It is canon, though, just as much as Season 8 is canon. As opposed to "Asylum" and "Shadow Puppets" which aren't canon.
                              Season 8 is set up more like a season of a T.V. show.A big season long storyline broken into arcs which are the episodes and a rotating writing team overseen by Joss with Joss himself writing various episodes including the premiere and finale.Joss is excutive producing it like he did the series.

                              After The Fall is one shorter epic story with one writer overeen by Joss and not broken into smaller arcs.

                              Season 8 is like a season of T.V. where Angel:After The Fall is like a Angel movie.It's being done sort of like how those DVD movies were going to be done.Joss overseeing the direction of the story with a handpicked person writing/directing it.
                              Last edited by BAF; 06-10-07, 04:03 PM.

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                              • #16
                                Does anyone know how long IDW gets use of the Angelverse characters? In other words, once the ATF series wraps up, is there any chance that some of these faces might start popping up in Buffy season 8?

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                                • #17
                                  i can't help but think there'd be more creative freedom if dark horse had both and that more respect would be given to the fang gang if there were more opportunities for worthy crossovers or the fact that joss seems a whole lot more interested in btvs despite ats having the better unresolved story possibilities and frankly, more depth...

                                  like for example: why does btvs get a season-sized comic (two seasons worth of them!) and ats only gets a movie-sized comic?

                                  maybe if they got greenwalt, minear, etc... to work on the ats comics, we might get better justice for ats.

                                  "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                  "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by NimNams View Post
                                    Does anyone know how long IDW gets use of the Angelverse characters? In other words, once the ATF series wraps up, is there any chance that some of these faces might start popping up in Buffy season 8?
                                    I was wondering the same thing. My guess is that Joss would technically be able to use the characters freely, but, based on this statement, will not:

                                    Joss Whedon: I won't be using the ancillary characters from "Angel" unless I absolutely think that nobody else can fit this bill. Spike and Angel I will definitely use, but sparingly. But I would do that anyway. You don't want to use it up by having Spike standing around in the background of every frame. He means so much to Buffy, so does Angel, that you want to save them for the big hits.

                                    (set made by Francy for me)

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                                    • #19
                                      and i agree with the big hits. but there are a lot of characters on ats that deserve as much love as the external ones on btvs... which is where the dark horse problem comes in. it's not just angel and spike. illyria, wesley?, lilah?, etc... these are more ats-centric characters that could use some beautiful writing.

                                      sure, angel and spike will always be important to buffy... but why not big hits for faith? why not big hits for giles?

                                      and frankly, a story where angel is leading the plot appeals to me a slight bit more than one with buffy leading the plot... though i still wish faith: the series was a reality. but an acknowledgment that angel and wesley mean as much to faith as the btvs characters would be refreshing. it's almost like they get snubbed in their involvement with her when she's over on btvs (and she is not treated as well on btvs as she was on ats, imo).

                                      it honestly feels a little bit like they are filling in giles for her relationships with angel and wesley. sure, i love giles, and i am certainly intrigued with where they are taking him (one of my favorite things about the comics), but a little credit to angel and wesley for shaping who she is now would be nice. fact is, she even stated that her only loyalty was to angel.

                                      the w&h thing must be addressed. ignoring it because it took place on the other show (that sometimes feels like it's treated like a bastard child) is like xander's lie not going away. it's just going to bug people until it's addressed full-on. same with the things that went on with faith while she was with the fang gang... who are just as important, or more important to her than the people in the scoobies.
                                      NileQT87
                                      The Dark Avenger
                                      Last edited by NileQT87; 09-10-07, 02:13 PM.

                                      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        The first review of Issue 1# is out and it contains some spoilers so read at your own risk.

                                        http://fractalmatter.com/main/?p=745

                                        Spoiler:
                                        So LA has actually been sent to Hell? That is weird, I just figured it was an expression when they said it was a hellzone but apparently not! I'm not sure how I feel about demon lords dividing the city up but it could work.

                                        I would have rathered hearing that Lynch wrote Angel the best of all his characters, I'm guessing by others the reviewer means Spike.

                                        I'm very interested in the surprise end, I wonder what it will be? Wild speculations;
                                        Wes is alive
                                        Gunn is a vamp
                                        We see Spike in bed with one of those demon girls from the Issue #2 cover.

                                        ~ Banner by Nina ~

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