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The "Why Buffy Rocks" Manifesto

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  • The "Why Buffy Rocks" Manifesto

    Hey BuffyForumers,

    The recent leak of the Animated Series clips is setting off a grassroots movement that's meant to span all sorts of Buffy fansites. BuffyForums is obviously one of the biggest hubs of Buffy fandom out there, so I'm bringing it here.

    ]
    Help Buffy LIVE Again!



    The recent success of Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog's internet release and the leaking of Buffy: The Animated Series has inspired us Buffy fans to want MORE Buffy. We want Buffy back in live action and we've got a plan.

    In fact, we've got a theory! We're looking to write a tiered list of proposals to FOX backed by carefully researched interest in the Buffy franchise. This proposal will cite the financial success of Buffy franchise (DVD sales, merchandise, Season 8 comics), the strength of the Buffy online fandom and the opportunities for capitalizing on the growing internet creative elements demonstrated by Dr. Horrible's recent and continued success.

    We want to show Fox they can make money by bringing the Buffyverse back to live action and we're going to show them how. So this means concrete evidence of financial success and examples of Buffy in the media put together in a proposal that is signed by as many Buffy fans as we can get a hold of. Once we have a petition signed and growing interest, we take this movement to the media outlets to get wider coverage.

    We are RESURRECTING the Buffyverse to live action. And we're thinking the most ideal and viable medium is ANIMATION, either broadcast or as webisodes and then later released on DVD.

    Areas we want to stir up interest in:

    1) Buffy feature film.
    2) Buffy The Animated Series brought back into production
    3) Buffy Season 8 Animated
    4) Spike movie or a Faith movie. Remember the talk about a Spike movie or a Faith tv show, well imagine if it were animated and James Marsters or Eliza Dushku returned to voice the character.
    5) Fray Animated Series.


    So Buffy "Super fans" as Joss calls us, we need to unite and start to organize this petition. We need help collecting the research to write up this petition, make it a convincing business proposal to Fox backed by thousands of Buffy super fans yelling "We Want MORE".

    Areas to look for evidence:

    - Buffy cited in the media (ie polls for Best Tv Show of all time, RedEye's poll that voted her Best Superhero). Anything that shows Buffy's is iconic and still present in the public consciousness.

    - Financial Success (Buffy Dvd sales, Buffy merchandise sales, Buffy season 8 sales, Dr. Horrible's Sing Along blog stats)


    We've also had some ideas for once the petition is up and rolling to send in mini-stakes to FOX. And perhaps auctioning off cool Buffy customs and replicas to raise money to get this petition going.


    If you want to help, post here and let the ideas start flowing.
    If you're interested in helping with research or have any information that will help make the best possible case to FOX, use me as a point of contact by PM, or contact the petition's author, Emmie.
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  • #2
    Alright Ill help u Out here KoC, I go look for Info
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    • #3
      Personally, just another game would be cool. I think Buffy in comic form is great. I mean we got 8 years of Buffyverse (Buffy and Angel) on TV. And that is alot more then most fandoms get, or even dream of getting. So I don't see why we need the animated series (it will be pushed towards kids, much in the fashion if The Batman and Teen Titans), unless we get something like the DTV Movies like Justice League: The New Frontier or Batman: Gotham Knight.

      Plus with both Joss and Eliza working on Dollhouse, I just think we should be happy with what we got (and what we are getting) and lets not keep pushing for more. I mean, why push to get something that may wreck the entire series all together?
      DigitalLeonardo
      Somebody Save Me...
      Last edited by DigitalLeonardo; 04-08-08, 01:00 PM.

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      • #4
        I don't really know about this, honestly...I mean, I could kind of get behind the Animated series, but it would be so jarring to have that voiced by different actors, and I doubt most of them would do it at this point...and I feel like the whole movie thing just doesn't work out well for off-air fandoms. Xfiles is springing to mind...

        Plus with both Joss and Eliza working on Dollhouse, I just think we should be happy with what we got (and what we are getting) and lets not keep pushing for me. I mean, why push to get something that may wreck the entire series all together?
        Pretty much this is where I'm at... I'd rather have my Season eight comics and my fanfic and my dollhouse.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
          Personally, just another game would be cool. I think Buffy in comic form is great. I mean we got 8 years of Buffyverse (Buffy and Angel) on TV. And that is alot more then most fandoms get, or even dream of getting. So I don't see why we need the animated series (it will be pushed towards kids, much in the fashion if The Batman and Teen Titans), unless we get something like the DTV Movies like Justice League: The New Frontier or Batman: Gotham Knight.

          Plus with both Joss and Eliza working on Dollhouse, I just think we should be happy with what we got (and what we are getting) and lets not keep pushing for more. I mean, why push to get something that may wreck the entire series all together?
          DigitalLeonardo, the concept is more to resemble cartoons that have mature thematic depth like Batman: The Animated Series. And how could anything be created that could "wreck" the series? Did seeing the clip released of Buffy: The Animated Series this week somehow lessen the awesome gloriousness of Once More With Feeling or the Body? Nope. Can't be done. The series stands on its own very mythic (to me atleast) legs and it's not going to be hurt by new creative growth of the Buffyverse.


          Here's my reasoning behind this petition - Dream Big and Maybe you'll actually get something cool!

          - Wouldn't it be cool to have a Fray Animated Series?

          - Wouldn't it be cool to have some cartoon episodes that delve into characters' pasts or show scenes that were off-screen on television? What was Anya doing around the time of the French Revolution - hey what if she actually met Angelus and didn't even know it? And wouldn't Xander be pissed to realize Anya had some kind of relationship with his most hated nemesis, the unsouled Angel.

          - Wouldn't it be cool if they made a Faith animated movie and Eliza Dushku voiced the character. You know she'd do that for Joss.


          Why settle for only the 7 years of BUFFY in live action? Yeah, maybe Joss is too busy to do this but maybe this will get FOX thinking about BUFFY again and something cool will happen. Maybe this will inspire a creative explosion in Joss' mind and he'll want to do this. You never know what is possible unless you try. If Joss hadn't been willing to stick his neck out there, Dr. Horrible would not EXIST. So why aren't we learning from his example and doing something radical? Use the innovation shown from Joss' recent project and apply it to the 'verse nearest and dearest to our hearts - the Buffyverse.

          The BUFFY franchise is already growing and crossing mediums. It currently lives as a comic, but what if it later became a cartoon? I see this as an evolution of the 'verse. And I'm comparing it to other superhero franchises *coughsSupermancoughs* that had comics, shows, movies AND cartoons. What if 30 years from now the Buffyverse was still around and creating new stories?


          Even if we only got the scripts for Buffy: The Animated Series released, I'd still be satisfied. And isn't it enough of a reason for all Buffy fans to join together and ROAR about what an amazing show it was, is and still could be. Joss has more stories to tell, I believe they are in there. I want them to break free and Live! again.
          Last edited by Emmie; 04-08-08, 08:13 PM.
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          • #6
            Sorry, not meaning to cause thread-drift, but I'm having a non-native-speaker's moment of confusion regarding "live action":
            Webster's New Millennium™ Dictionary of English
            Definition: in broadcasting and filmmaking, the use of real people or animals as opposed to computer-generated or animated beings

            Dictionary.com Unabridged
            2. animated, as distinguished from a single drawing or sketch: Disney perfected the live-action cartoon.
            Those are both correct? Almost makes the term useless, no?

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            • #7
              In the context of this petition, both are correct, kassy. First and foremost, the goal here (slap me if I misrepresent, Emmie) is 20th Century Fox's awareness of the profitability of the Buffy franchise. I don't think anybody, not us, not FOX, is hoping to do an end around on Joss or force him into something -- but money talks in Hollywood, even to him, and if FOX is willing to cough it up, especially for something that may only require his indirect supervision and/or approval, it works out for Joss, it works out for FOX, and it works out for us!
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              • #8
                Originally posted by kassyopeia View Post
                Sorry, not meaning to cause thread-drift, but I'm having a non-native-speaker's moment of confusion regarding "live action":

                Those are both correct? Almost makes the term useless, no?
                Kassyopeia, yes it's one of the many American phrases that uses redundancy. More phrases that use redundancy: PIN number which actually means personal identification number number, ATM machine which is automated teller machine machine. Here's some more odd phrases -a driveway is where you park your car and a parkway is a highway where you drive your car.
                Last edited by Emmie; 04-08-08, 09:13 PM.
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                • #9
                  I don't know what you are thinking, but it is VERY easy to destroy a franchise with a simple series or movie. Batman & Robin, Superman 4, Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer... Why try to get a rushed, crappy addition to the series?

                  Also, I seriouslly doubt we'd get a cartoon that would be as deep as Batman: The Animated Series. Saturday morning cartoons (which Buffy would be, unless Fox teamed it up with The Simpsons and Family Guys, which I doubt) are aimed for kids and even though we can get deep and meaningfull character, we would never get as strong story lines and be able to go as deep and dark as the series had gone. I also doubt it would be as deep as going into Anya's past... I don't think the series would be able to go as deep. We'd get simply 13 episode seasons of half hour shows, which would have to follow the guidelines of the network and be Y rating. (Which also means Fray would never happen...)

                  And I know this sounds really harsh, but its realisitic. I mean Fox can see the Buffy merchandise isn't doing as well as it use to. If anyone follows the action figures line, or the statute lines you'll notice they have all died from lack of fan interest. Yes the comics are making money, but it takes ALOT less money to make monthly comic issues then a full animated production (in which about 1000 more people have to be paid for).

                  I really think people should be happy with what we have. Buffy is good, but it will NEVER be as big as Star Wars or Star Trek. It is just to limited in a sense. With Star Wars and Star Trek actors can be changed and it won't be a big deal, Buffy can't do that. We can't get a movie in 20 years cause watching a Buffy movie without the original cast isn't Buffy... its just not.

                  I think people should be pushing to get other shows into these mediums. Shows that didn't even have a chance. I would much rather Tru Calling animated, or in comic form. Or Veronica Mars. Buffy got a complete ending, I was VERY happy with it. And the season 8 is a bonus (a really strange and not amazing bonus, but a bonus none the less) while Tru Caling and Veronica Mars both ended on cliff hangers... We need ends for them.

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                  • #10
                    The "Batman" franchise hasn't been ruined, "The Dark Knight" has been #1 for 3 weeks now. People are still interested in Batman. I didn't really like "Superman Returns" and "Smallville" tends to make be cringe, but if a new Superman movie came out, I'd still go and see it. I really don't think a cartoon or one animated movie would ruin the entire Buffy franchise.

                    To be fair, "Tru Calling" or "Veronica Mars" don't really lend their selves to animation as well as Buffy does. They just don't.

                    Personally, I don't want a cartoon, because, they would be aimed at kids. I do think an animated movie smiler to "Ultimate Avengers" or "Justice League: The New Frontier" would be the best option. Especially Fray, which, with a few tweaks, is already written. They could just use the mini-series, and maybe Melaka's story from "Tales". It'd be a great test platform. If it did well, the could expand, if not, they could call it a day and say, "At least we tried."

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thomas View Post
                      The "Batman" franchise hasn't been ruined, "The Dark Knight" has been #1 for 3 weeks now. People are still interested in Batman. I didn't really like "Superman Returns" and "Smallville" tends to make be cringe, but if a new Superman movie came out, I'd still go and see it. I really don't think a cartoon or one animated movie would ruin the entire Buffy franchise.
                      To be fair, the Batman movie franchise took about 7 years to reboot. And had Batman Begins not do as well as it did, I doubt we would have seen another Batman movie for another decade... kinda like Superman returns.

                      Personally, I don't want a cartoon, because, they would be aimed at kids. I do think an animated movie smiler to "Ultimate Avengers" or "Justice League: The New Frontier" would be the best option. Especially Fray, which, with a few tweaks, is already written. They could just use the mini-series, and maybe Melaka's story from "Tales". It'd be a great test platform. If it did well, the could expand, if not, they could call it a day and say, "At least we tried."
                      That I agree on. WB has done some amazing things with DTV (Direct to Video) cartoons lately. And with the up coming Wonder Woman I think it is a cash cow that others will quickly follow and I think Marvel will start doing more as well. If Fox and Darkhorse (I dunno how it would work for Season 8...) but if they got on their game I think they could cash in as well.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                        I don't know what you are thinking, but it is VERY easy to destroy a franchise with a simple series or movie. Batman & Robin, Superman 4, Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer... Why try to get a rushed, crappy addition to the series?
                        I don't think anyone's really propsing a rushed or crappy... anything, really. Certainly nobody breaking the idea out said "let's see if FOX will get a rushed and crappy cartoon together". And, moreover, nobody wants FOX to do an end-around on Joss himself. But Joss isn't really the man that needs convincing. We've all seen that Joss doesn't get things done just by wishing them. The point here is that we hope to get FOX excite about the profitability of A) the franchise, B) the various media available (such as the ridiculously profitable "Dr. Horrible's Sing-A-Long Blog"), excited enough to want Joss to do something, or have his hand in something.

                        Batman and Superman and Fantastic Four are decades-old properties whose creators are generally not *around* to be offered or request a role in how they are handled.

                        Also, I seriouslly doubt we'd get a cartoon that would be as deep as Batman: The Animated Series. Saturday morning cartoons (which Buffy would be, unless Fox teamed it up with The Simpsons and Family Guys, which I doubt) are aimed for kids and even though we can get deep and meaningfull character, we would never get as strong story lines and be able to go as deep and dark as the series had gone. I also doubt it would be as deep as going into Anya's past... I don't think the series would be able to go as deep. We'd get simply 13 episode seasons of half hour shows, which would have to follow the guidelines of the network and be Y rating. (Which also means Fray would never happen...)
                        Actually, an animated series of that type is exactly the top-line goal here, because it was the Animated Series presentation that set off this enthusiasm. A new Buffy Animated, or perhaps even a Buffy Season 8 Animated, or a Fray animated, are things for which we can show FOX that there is real interest. Or live-webisodes. Or a "Fray" feature. Or a Buffy Animated feature ("Clone Wars", "TMNT" etc).

                        And I know this sounds really harsh, but its realisitic. I mean Fox can see the Buffy merchandise isn't doing as well as it use to. If anyone follows the action figures line, or the statute lines you'll notice they have all died from lack of fan interest. Yes the comics are making money, but it takes ALOT less money to make monthly comic issues then a full animated production (in which about 1000 more people have to be paid for).
                        Statuettes are so much of a high-price, niche market item, it's hard to imagine they are worth much in terms of gauging the marketplace at large.

                        I really think people should be happy with what we have. Buffy is good, but it will NEVER be as big as Star Wars or Star Trek. It is just to limited in a sense. With Star Wars and Star Trek actors can be changed and it won't be a big deal, Buffy can't do that. We can't get a movie in 20 years cause watching a Buffy movie without the original cast isn't Buffy... its just not.
                        As a long time fan of both those franchises, I have to disagree -- especially when a project can be set in the much more mythic, epic setting post-"Chosen". The Buffy *brand* can be applied to entirely new characters in a very ST:TNG way, IMO -- new Slayers, new Champions.

                        The goal here isn't to demand or to circumvent, but to appeal to a studio's sense of profitability and remind them of the various creative outlets available to them. Joss is still the guy who'd be able to say "eh, not interested". He already did that with Buffy Animated the first time, but now, FOX will be faced with the knowledge that there is a market for the kind of Buffy Animated that Joss himself wanted.

                        Originally posted by Thomas View Post
                        The "Batman" franchise hasn't been ruined, "The Dark Knight" has been #1 for 3 weeks now. People are still interested in Batman. I didn't really like "Superman Returns" and "Smallville" tends to make be cringe, but if a new Superman movie came out, I'd still go and see it. I really don't think a cartoon or one animated movie would ruin the entire Buffy franchise.
                        Must concur, with "The Dark Knight" rapidly sailing to being the #2 highest grossing film in US history, I'm going to say that the Batman franchise triumphed.

                        Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                        If Fox and Darkhorse (I dunno how it would work for Season 8...) but if they got on their game I think they could cash in as well.
                        It very well might. We hope to encourage them in that direction with this petition/grassroots campaign.
                        KingofCretins
                        What?
                        Last edited by KingofCretins; 05-08-08, 03:26 AM.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                          I don't know what you are thinking, but it is VERY easy to destroy a franchise with a simple series or movie. Batman & Robin, Superman 4, Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer... Why try to get a rushed, crappy addition to the series?
                          I'm happy to tell you what I'm thinking. I've been comparing the Buffyverse to other comic universes and 50 years from now, I want Buffy to still be relevant. A decade from now I want to see Buffy rebooted the way Batman was rebooted. And one of the first steps in this evolution of the Buffyverse is to be excited and look for innovative ways to bring about more Buffy projects like Buffy Animated. I see it as an investment in future entertainment. Buffy is already something great, but it could be even more amazing. Amazing for a lifetime.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DigitalLeonardo View Post
                            To be fair, the Batman movie franchise took about 7 years to reboot. And had Batman Begins not do as well as it did, I doubt we would have seen another Batman movie for another decade... kinda like Superman returns.



                            That I agree on. WB has done some amazing things with DTV (Direct to Video) cartoons lately. And with the up coming Wonder Woman I think it is a cash cow that others will quickly follow and I think Marvel will start doing more as well. If Fox and Darkhorse (I dunno how it would work for Season 8...) but if they got on their game I think they could cash in as well.
                            Darkhorse has done two "Hellboy" animated movies. Plus, "Sin City" and "300" were both popular movies, so I think they'd be open to it. Especially since Buffy already has a cult following. And isn't it currently their #1 comic?

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                            • #15
                              Thomas, no reason to understate it; Buffy Season 8 is the most successful non-DC or Marvel title in about a generation. And, yes, if Dark Horse and FOX, the two nominal rights holders were to collaborate, an animated feature could be quite a success. A series of DVD released that roughly parallel the contents of a TPB, for example.

                              The point here is simple, to borrow from Wolfie... MOAR!

                              Consider, if you will, Dark Horse and FOX collaborating on a Season 8 or Fray animated series -- something to rival "Batman: The Animated Series" or "Justice League Unlimited" in quality, marketed as a 9pm or 10pm weekly on SciFi or Cartoon Network. Downloadable on iTunes, purchaseable on DVD, supplemented by direct to DVD released features. The business model for JLU *is* the business model for the Buffyverse over the next decade, if the people that can make it happen are motivated by the fans.
                              KingofCretins
                              What?
                              Last edited by KingofCretins; 05-08-08, 04:16 AM.
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                              • #16
                                What about the fan love that is still generated at Conventions?? Such as Dragon Con, Collectormania (overseas fans!!), FX International, etc.

                                Even as the actors have moved on the characters are still LOVED!
                                -TP<3
                                "At that point I'd love a fight and a heart to heart and then of course naughtiness and happy ever after."
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                                Spuffy Videos!

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Emmie View Post
                                  I'm happy to tell you what I'm thinking. I've been comparing the Buffyverse to other comic universes and 50 years from now, I want Buffy to still be relevant. A decade from now I want to see Buffy rebooted the way Batman was rebooted. And one of the first steps in this evolution of the Buffyverse is to be excited and look for innovative ways to bring about more Buffy projects like Buffy Animated. I see it as an investment in future entertainment. Buffy is already something great, but it could be even more amazing. Amazing for a lifetime.
                                  I don't really want Buffy to be Star Trek. I think Star Trek is good in its own way, but it's not a way that I associate with Buffy or want to. And I already think Buffy is amazing for a lifetime...certainly I doubt that any other television show will ever have the impact on my life that Buffy did!

                                  Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                                  Thomas, no reason to understate it; Buffy Season 8 is the most successful non-DC or Marvel title in about a generation. And, yes, if Dark Horse and FOX, the two nominal rights holders were to collaborate, an animated feature could be quite a success. A series of DVD released that roughly parallel the contents of a TPB, for example.

                                  The point here is simple, to borrow from Wolfie... MOAR!

                                  Consider, if you will, Dark Horse and FOX collaborating on a Season 8 or Fray animated series -- something to rival "Batman: The Animated Series" or "Justice League Unlimited" in quality, marketed as a 9pm or 10pm weekly on SciFi or Cartoon Network. Downloadable on iTunes, purchaseable on DVD, supplemented by direct to DVD released features. The business model for JLU *is* the business model for the Buffyverse over the next decade, if the people that can make it happen are motivated by the fans.
                                  But who would voice the characters, if there was an animated season 8? or a Buffy the Animated Series? You think SMG is going to take a break from film work to do Buffy? Or AH? Half buffy doesn't seem very good to me. That's why I like the comics, because you don't need the actors to participate in order to believe the characters. I mean, I liked the Buffy The Animated Series trailer, but I would find a non-SMG buffy incredibly distracting in the long term.
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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by litzie View Post
                                    I don't really want Buffy to be Star Trek. I think Star Trek is good in its own way, but it's not a way that I associate with Buffy or want to. And I already think Buffy is amazing for a lifetime...certainly I doubt that any other television show will ever have the impact on my life that Buffy did!
                                    I absolutely agree, Litzie. I think Buffy is amazing too and it's had a HUGE impact on my life. After the past year of seeing the release of Buffy in the Season 8 comics and the leaked clip of Buffy the Animated Series, I've just started thinking about how amazing the Buffyverse is and not just limited to the Scoobies and their adventures. I want to see new projects growing from the Buffyverse.



                                    Originally posted by litzie View Post
                                    But who would voice the characters, if there was an animated season 8? or a Buffy the Animated Series? You think SMG is going to take a break from film work to do Buffy? Or AH? Half buffy doesn't seem very good to me. That's why I like the comics, because you don't need the actors to participate in order to believe the characters. I mean, I liked the Buffy The Animated Series trailer, but I would find a non-SMG buffy incredibly distracting in the long term.
                                    Yes, it might be difficult to get SMG back to reprise her role vocally. But she has done voice roles in the past and seemingly enjoyed them - TMNT, Happily N'Ever After, Robot Chicken. And considering the lower time commitment required for voice roles, I don't think that's an impossible dream. Yes, all the Buffyverse actors have moved on to new projects but providing voices for characters in an animated feature might be do-able.

                                    And who's to say it has to only be the main Scoobies? I'd love to see a FRAY animated feature film or even a FRAY animated series. There are so many possibilities for ways to expand the Buffyverse and bring it back to Live Action media. That is the real motivation behind this petition - to re-animate the Buffyverse and bring it back to life.
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                                    • #19
                                      Originally posted by litzie View Post
                                      But who would voice the characters, if there was an animated season 8? or a Buffy the Animated Series? You think SMG is going to take a break from film work to do Buffy? Or AH? Half buffy doesn't seem very good to me. That's why I like the comics, because you don't need the actors to participate in order to believe the characters. I mean, I liked the Buffy The Animated Series trailer, but I would find a non-SMG buffy incredibly distracting in the long term.
                                      From what I've gathered, and please anyone correct me if I'm wrong. But it actually doesn't take a great deal of time for the actors to come in and say their lines. I'd say it takes the least time, it's the animation and direction and writing of the scripts that takes the longest. I don't think it would mean Sarah has to take "time off" from her movie career to voice one of these things, and honestly I see it a more believeable option since Paley than I did before.

                                      If Joss and the writers got their act together, wrote all the scripts (if it was season 8 Animated they already have most of them) Sarah could come in, deliver the lines and that's that.

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