Why Don't/Do Ya Like It?

[BlasterBoy]

Okay, this is a thread thought up by Katharine and it's in the game section because I don't want anyone to feel obligated to write an essay about why they like or dislike an episode.

So, if anyone wants to ask why someone doesn't like an episode, or why they do, go right ahead. Anyone want to counter it? Be my guest!

So, let's get this game started.

[Nostalgia]

Awesome! I was going to ask you this in the Ceremony page.. but I'll do it here!

Why don't you like Bring On The Night that much, Blasterboy?

[BlasterBoy]

Okay

For Bring on the Night, I'd say it's okay -- 7/10. First off, I really don't like the Potentials arc, and this starts it. The potentials all annoy me, and Kennedy flirting with Willow makes me wanna smack her over the face. The Ubervamp fight isn't really a fight, but it's okay and nicely directed. The Potentials just bug the crap out of me, too. And Giles is....uh, not Giles-like But, the end is nice so it makes it an okay episode even with Potentials being stupid

[BlasterBoy]

would anybody that hates The Body (I forgot who it was, but people have put it on their bottom 10 or something) mind telling us why they think The Body is mediocre and silly?

[skinless]

You proly said it before But Why dont you Like Chosen? BlasterBoy

[BlasterBoy]

Yay! Questions for me!

There's more than this, but this is the gist of it:

First off, I hate Buffy jumping from man to man. One act, she kisses Angel. The next, she sleeps with Spike. Angel is very, very out of character and him coming over at this time makes no sense at all. I also hate whiny Spike

The First is not a threat, imo. It cannot touch, just taunt. And man, all it does is taunt in that basement scene. I realized that The First is such a sucky villain. The First's plans were never explained and The First can't die, so how is destroying Sunnydale gonna help? It's still there, ready to strike.

Next plot hole: Ubervamps. I cannot get passed it. She almost DIES fighting one, but now she's slicing them up, ten at a time. And not only Buffy, but the Potentials. I understand that they become slayers, but newly born slayers. Meaning Buffy pre-Season 1 killing a bunch of Ubervamps. What?! No, way wrong.

Next plot hole: The hellmouth. Shown in previous episodes, Ubervamps are not the only thing in the hellmouth. In Prophecy Girl, you see the worm thing. In The Zeppo, no Ubervamp is shown. There is more than just Ubervamps. Way more.

Next plot hole: Buffy gets stabbed. She falls down. One minute later, she's jumping off a building and landing on a bus. After she gets up in The First's non-existent face, she shows no sign of ever being stabbed. And, if I remember correctly, the wound is all gone.

More plot holes. Too many to mention.

Anya's death is not mentioned, only for 15 seconds when Andrew tells Xander. While it is a nice moment, that good and important of a character deserved a much better send off.

Okay, I will not go on. I think you get it

[BlasterBoy]

Nostalgia, why the After Life love? Like, top 10 love. Not just it's a great episode love. Hope that made sense.

[Nostalgia]

After Life isn't top 10 for me.. but more closely ranged for top 20 (still applies to your question though.. since I'm sure it's not on every top 20 Buffy episode list).

The reason I love After Life can be categorized into 2 reasons:

1. SMG's acting
2. The phenomenal writing

1. Sarah Michelle Gellar puts on a stellar performance in this episode.. from her subtle exchanged looks with her friends to the ability to show the pain that's hiding in her character (that's considerably hard.. when it's to be made that the character is happy.. but deep down inside is broken.)

2. The writing takes on such a dark path in this episode, and not only in the ghost scenes.. but more towards the subtle dialogue/conversation that exists between Buffy and her friends. Here's a few examples of this which are some of my favorite scenes:

Episode 6.03: After Life
BUFFY: I, I think I ... just wanna go to sleep.
TARA: That's a good idea. You, you should sleep.
WILLOW: Right. Long day. But, Buffy ... be happy. (big smile) We got you out. We really did it.

Buffy looks at them, still uncomfortable.

BUFFY: (apologetically) Tired.
ANYA: Well, yeah. I mean ... jet-lag from hell has gotta be, you know, jet-lag from hell.
BUFFY: (toward Dawn) My room is still...
DAWN: Yeah. Yes. It's your room.

Buffy exits. The others watch her go, then look at each other.

WILLOW: (defensively) Well, she, she's fine! Normal! She used to go to bed all the time!

SPIKE: Willow knew there was a chance that she'd come back wrong. So wrong that you'd have ... that she would have to get rid of what came back. And I wouldn't let her. If any part of that was Buffy, I wouldn't let her. And that's why she shut me out.
XANDER: What are you talking about? Willow wouldn't do that.
SPIKE: (sarcastic) Oh. Is that right.
XANDER: Look. You're just covering. Don't tell me you're not happy. (Spike scoffs) Look me in the eyes, and tell me when you saw Buffy alive, that wasn't the happiest moment of your entire existence.

Spike gives Xander a "you just don't get it" scowl, turns and walks off.

SPIKE: (as he walks) That's the thing about magic. There's always consequences.

and most importantly:

WILLOW: I'm not sure. Maybe ... maybe some of us can, uh, keep going finding more, and the others--
BUFFY: I miss Giles.

We see Buffy sitting across the table from Willow.

WILLOW: Oh. He's coming back, I talked to him. I know I'm a kind of poor substitute, but until then, we'll get it done.

Buffy looks around at them. They all look expectantly at her.

BUFFY: I think I should patrol.

She puts her book down and stands. Willow looks hurt.

WILLOW: Well, I know we'll find something soon.
BUFFY: Yeah.

This one in particular really shows me why I love this episode.. because it displays Buffy's apathy or the people around her.. in contrast of saving the world for them. She wants nothing of being around them. Also it shows how the gang is completely treating the situation as if it was not a big deal that they just resurrected someone.. as if Buffy had just taken a car ride home.

Also, in the earlier scenes mentioned.. the way Anya asks... "What was it like..?" just shows their complete disconcern for the state of Buffy herself.

Aside from all of this, the episode is chock full of great scenes (Buffy hugging the group and lying to them, Buffy confessing the truth to Spike, Spike's "die every night speech) and the entire mood (I love how atmospheric, dark and airy it is).. makes for an amazing episode.

[Ojuice5001]

would anybody that hates The Body (I forgot who it was, but people have put it on their bottom 10 or something) mind telling us why they think The Body is mediocre and silly?

Because nothing happens in that episode! The only point of The Body is to show how the characters reacted as soon as they heard the news of Joyce's death. But that's not something that can stay interesting to me for a whole hour. (And I don't think of Joyce as being important enough to deserve this treatment, either.)

I do like Anya's famous speech though.

Isaac Asimov actually said he didn't like 1984, criticizing it on the grounds that it's a book where everything that happens is awful and that the result is a one-note story that destroys drama just as much as it would if it were a story where only good things happen. I definitely don't think that's a fair criticism of 1984, but it's a fine way to sum up why I don't like The Body.

[BlasterBoy]

Wow, I couldn't disagree more!

Nothing happens!? It comments on everything that has happened in their lives and shows realism never, ever, shown on film or TV before! The acting is phenomonal, as is the heart breaking writing. "Mom? Mom? Mommy?" is just....ouch. And the way Joss directs and sets everything up makes for a truly emotional episode. You didn't cry during it? Even during Buffy's breakdown? Dawn's breakdown? Willow's "why can't I grow up?" speech? Sorry, just confused

Joyce is Buffy's mother. Dawn's mother. A mother-daughter relationship that is great. Maybe the only good one in the Jossverse. She deserved this treatment, imo. Joyce was such a big role in Buffy's life.

[Pandora's_Box]

You proly said it before But Why dont you Like Chosen

would anybody that hates The Body

Those are my Top 1 and Top 3 episodes, funny to see skinless love one and hate the other and the opposite for Blasterboy, do like me, love the two episodes!!

Let's talk about my Top 2 episode: Grave.
I always considered it as the most underrated episode.
I know people don't hate it but it is a finale season episode with Darth Willow, big grief, kickin' Giles, great Buffy...It should be in almost everyone Top 10 or Top 20 and it's not. So please tell me why you don't love Grave.

[skinless]

I cant answer that due to the Fact that I do love that Episode. But if u wanna talk "The Body". I think there is just not enough going onin that Episode. Plus I didnt like Joyce all that Much so when she died it was no big deal for me.

[Pandora's_Box]

For The Body I guess the problem is simple, you like it or not depends on are you or are you not sensitive to that specific direction and writings. I think that's just it.

[BlasterBoy]

I'm a writer and write novels and stuff, so I'm sensitive to the writing. And god, that writing was fantastic. I think it's just because it's so well done to convey that much emotion and cause it hit home for me. That's why I love it.

Yeah, it's weird, Cl?ment The Body is my #2 episode, and Chosen is in my bottom 20

btw, I love Grave. It's in my top 20 (I think) and it's really great. I really think it's one of the worse season finales (better than Prophecy Girl and Chosen) because Grad Day, Becoming, The Gift, and Restless are all fabulous. All 4 in my top 10, and one being my #1. You could tell it wasn't written by Joss, though. I think it was a bit anticlimactic and the writing wasn't as good (well, the Xander speech was great). But, I still adored it.

[Pandora's_Box]

I think it was a bit anticlimactic and the writing wasn't as good

I have problem agreeing with that, I think people just say that, because they know it's not Whedon's not because they feel it's not good enough to be Whedon's. I mean, you honestly feel Whedon wrote Out Of Mind, Out Of Sight, because if I didn't know I could not tell.
I think the writing is great and very faithfull to the characters, there is the cliff talk between Xander and Willow which is great, a very good Buffy/Dawn moment, hey, the scene when Giles laugh is an other great idea and more importantly the episode respect the darkness of the season.
And still underrated because for example, everyone should prefer Grave than Graduation Part II which have weak writing like that bad big snake idea, what would you want to be a killable big snake when you can be an immortal man. The explosives to kill him remind too much of the bazooka to kill the judge, a season finale should have fresh stuff, there's still some good stuff as a season finale should have like "Drink Me" of Buffy/Faith dream and I like the students revolt, but the big snake and explosives way to kill are just bad bad stuff.

[BlasterBoy]

See, Cl?ment, when I saw Grave, I thought it was still written by Joss, cause it's, ya know....a season finale. When I watched it, I said it's Joss, only not AS good. The writing was great, but not as good as the other finales (minus Chosen). And btw, I LOVE Lie To Me. I Fall To Pieces was not written by Joss, it was written by David Greenwalt. Just to clarify

And I completely disagree with you about Grad Day. It's in my top 10. Everything was fresh. Imo, the snake thing was to show the giant accension and what real demons are like. And he wanted to do evil, cause pain. He could not do that as much as an immortal man with no real powers. He wanted more. And the explosion was nothing like the rocket launcher. A rocket launcher is not like a bomb. There was no explosion in "Innocence", someone just blew up The explosion destroyed the whole building and put a new meaning to leaving highschool and highschool is hell.

[Pandora's_Box]

No, you misunderstood, it's the same idea. During Innocence it's "It took an army yadi-yada, no forged weapon yadi-yada" so you're expecting a spell or a magic weapon and bing big surprise, just a rocket launcher. Here it was the same idea behind, "big giant snake it took lava to" and oh surprise, just T.N.T.
See, the same idea behind. I just think it deserved more of an epic battle, more than just run and catch, hide and seek, boom. And it lacks of an huge huge thing which have to be here to make a good finale: sorrow, grief, even death. Don't know why but I need it. And except Restless which is, well you know what I mean, this is the only one without griefy harsh stuff, I mean unless you loved Larry character or are a whinny Bangel shipper, when were we supposed to cry anyway. And Wilow and Xander!!! What's their part in it except "Unit Flame...Go!!!" please completely useless!!

[Nostalgia]

Out Of Mind, Out of Sight is a fantastically written episode.

[BlasterBoy]

No, you misunderstood, it's the same idea. During Innocence it's "It took an army yadi-yada, no forged weapon yadi-yada" so you're expecting a spell or a magic weapon and bing big surprise, just a rocket launcher. Here it was the same idea behind, "big giant snake it took lava to" and oh surprise, just T.N.T.
See, the same idea behind. I just think it deserved more of an epic battle, more than just run and catch, hide and seek, boom. And it lacks of an huge huge thing which have to be here to make a good finale: sorrow, grief, even death. Don't know why but I need it. And except Restless which is, well you know what I mean, this is the only one without griefy harsh stuff, I mean unless you loved Larry character or are a whinny Bangel shipper, when were we supposed to cry anyway. And Wilow and Xander!!! What's their part in it except "Unit Flame...Go!!!" please completely useless!!

Still completely disagree.

If you're talking about it being anticlimactic, I'm in shock. Grave is the second most anticlimactic season finale ever! The big huge huge thing that was stronger than every being in the universe gets stopped by, surprise surprise, love. It's the same with every finale. Glory, huge huge god, big big thing, destroys all, gets stopped by, surprise surprise, the non-super human guy, Giles. Or with Chosen, the big big thing was stopped by a snotty and whinny little boy It's just the way it's set up. It's the same with every finale.

Xander stepped up and became a leader in this episode. If you watch, he commanded the whole school (which was EPIC, btw) and took charge. That's not a big woop thing, that's a BIG thing. Willow was his right hand "man"

[BlasterBoy]

Out Of Mind, Out of Sight is a fantastically written episode.

Um....yes, I agree. A little random, but yes, well written