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Reacting to Reactions! - BtVS Season 4

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  • #21
    Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
    There's a fairly decent chance that Alley Box is actually going to ship it with Buffy and Riley and that her own comments section is going to poop all over her enthusiasm for it, because while Buffy fans make reliable Patrons they also frequently are just there to have their priors validated by the reactor.
    Ah, I hope they don't spoil it for her. She was so enthused in Beer Bad, it was sweet. And the build in to Riley and Buffy against what happened with Parker is a nice steady drip feed. She should get to just see it and find its strengths/weaknesses for herself.

    I've found it is really enjoyable when you watch someone reacting in the same way that you did and really interesting when you find they differ. I think some of the edge of what she liked about Buffy and Angel was affected by people giving her grief for being hypocritical when she was harsh about Ms French preying on the boys and she never really seemed to shake that off. It isn't even like the problems in the relationships don't get air time, why press someone to feel one way or the other.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by Stoney View Post

      Ah, I hope they don't spoil it for her. She was so enthused in Beer Bad, it was sweet. And the build in to Riley and Buffy against what happened with Parker is a nice steady drip feed. She should get to just see it and find its strengths/weaknesses for herself.

      I've found it is really enjoyable when you watch someone reacting in the same way that you did and really interesting when you find they differ. I think some of the edge of what she liked about Buffy and Angel was affected by people giving her grief for being hypocritical when she was harsh about Ms French preying on the boys and she never really seemed to shake that off. It isn't even like the problems in the relationships don't get air time, why press someone to feel one way or the other.
      This is such a strange thing to complain about, like how are the situations even comparable ?
      What a challenge, honesty
      What a struggle to learn to speak
      Who would've thought that pretending was easier

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Stoney View Post

        Ah, I hope they don't spoil it for her. She was so enthused in Beer Bad, it was sweet. And the build in to Riley and Buffy against what happened with Parker is a nice steady drip feed. She should get to just see it and find its strengths/weaknesses for herself.

        I've found it is really enjoyable when you watch someone reacting in the same way that you did and really interesting when you find they differ. I think some of the edge of what she liked about Buffy and Angel was affected by people giving her grief for being hypocritical when she was harsh about Ms French preying on the boys and she never really seemed to shake that off. It isn't even like the problems in the relationships don't get air time, why press someone to feel one way or the other.
        She has only just done "Something Blue" before flipping back to Angel and she seems pretty in favor of it. I hope they let her enjoy it if she's enjoying it.

        I don't remember the people coming at her with that garbage take that it's hypocritical to like Buffy/Angel but not like Ms. French luring her students (which is played straight and entirely turns on the hot-for-teacher transgression). I'm glad I missed it lol.
        sigpic
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        • #24
          Oh it was ridiculous. It wasn't based on the vampire/teen element, they weren't spoiling he was a vampire, but criticising her starting to like Bangel when Angel was a twenty something approaching a teen, and then criticising Ms French seducing students. It really was a tenuous link. As I recall, she actually apologised for having double standards and said she didn't realise his supposed age because they often have older actors. But she mentioned the age issue and how unsure she was after that more than once. I really do think it affected her.

          Of course, she might have gotten to feeling that way anyway, and the show certainly does raise the age/experience difference between Buffy and Angel, but giving her grief for Teacher's Pet was so over the top. As King says, I hope she's allowed to enjoy Buffy/Riley if she likes it and doesn't needlessly have it pulled down for her.

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          • #25
            failwhale34 has posted a reaction to Beer Bad - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H5pyA870go
            His second-guessing through this was entertaining. I felt his overall sense of it being fun, that it achieved the themes/purpose/plot points well enough but dragged and was cringe-worthy at points too is fair. Again, awareness of something building with Oz, which is definitely one of the more interesting elements. It struck me for the first time here, when you consider this development with hindsight, it also works alongside the topic of the pleasure principle in this ep.

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            • #26
              failwhale34 posted on Wild at Heart - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35j0cto4ato
              I really enjoyed his reaction to this episode. It's stood out for him in the season so far and he gave plenty of understandable appreciation for AH in this ep.

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              • #27
                So failwhale's watched The Initiative now too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IB3CTAAAl9I
                His amusement at Riley's attempt to chat Buffy up was great and his surprise at the reveal of The Initiative was really entertaining. I honestly can't remember if I saw that coming or not. I think I'd suspected Riley was one of the soldiers but didn't expect Maggie's involvement.

                I get the pov of thinking the Spike/Willow scene is 'f*cked up but also hilarious', as that's certainly how I saw it the first time I watched it too. But I've grown to find the violence and humour really jarring since. I'm glad he generally liked the episode and the progress/reveals it gave, with the humour laced in. He seemed very energised by it and appreciative of a bit more interest building for Riley. It'll be intriguing to see how he responds to him the rest of this season and next.

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                • #28
                  failwhale's headed on to Pangs - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWseq1xfA2I
                  His enjoyment throughout this was great. I really liked his appreciation for what they are exploring in how things are moving on as well as getting the feel of some of the old dynamics with Angel's inclusion too.

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                  • Priceless
                    Priceless commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Just watched this reaction and I really enjoyed it.

                • #29
                  So alley box has posted her Wild at Heart reaction - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiSV5nptdrs

                  I've been waiting for her to get to this. From her preamble and the strong wish for nothing to come of what was being hinted at with Oz and 'that other girl', I both cringed for her but also wanted to get into seeing her response to it all. Unsurprisingly, she wasn't pleased and it following her own recent breakup predictably gave relatable moments.

                  I'm not sure whether it is the difference of watching these things now with full hindsight and after having discussed them so much, or if it was just that she wasn't in the best frame of mind to analyse it because of the topic, but I was surprised how much she seemed to miss the issue of Oz's 'wolf' nature being a meaningful part of him. To see what initially happened with Veruca as something he couldn't control is partly correct, but within her point that what happened after that first time was avoidable there is the representation of hidden desire and darkness played out. The idea of there being a side of him that didn't do all the things that she was making as alternate suggestions. But her criticisms towards Oz in her summary are generally entertaining and surmising that after waking that first time he, "handled it like an assh*le" made me laugh. Plenty of expected and understandable sympathy for Willow.

                  She made a couple of interesting comments during the reaction on camera work in close ups and effects' transitions I had hoped she was going to follow up in her summary as she often does. But I think her upset and disappointment overrode a lot of general thoughts on the ep. Not sure she enjoyed this, but found it interesting and it was an interesting reaction to watch. I thought her comment about Spike being a bad guy but 'kinda chill' was an interesting character response considering the deliberate transition from S2's ending to S4's use of him as a comedy side character.

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                  • #30
                    Maybe It's because I was never into Willow/Oz, but there's part of me thinking "Oh for gods sake, get the hell over it!" I mean people at that age very rarely pair for life. I like Oz but he's very one note character imo and so maybe It's the 'Ianto' (Torchwood character) syndrome going on here. IE A character who isn't the most fleshed out of characters being read into far too much by the fans. In their eyes he can be nothing and everything If you get my drift.

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                    • #31
                      Originally posted by Silver1 View Post
                      Maybe It's because I was never into Willow/Oz, but there's part of me thinking "Oh for gods sake, get the hell over it!" I mean people at that age very rarely pair for life. I like Oz but he's very one note character imo and so maybe It's the 'Ianto' (Torchwood character) syndrome going on here. IE A character who isn't the most fleshed out of characters being read into far too much by the fans. In their eyes he can be nothing and everything If you get my drift.
                      I really liked Willow/Oz and was very disappointed that Oz left. I do see what you mean in that there was limited character work done with him, but his taciturn/chill nature against the werewolf side and how much he struggled with the element of feeling out of control was very interesting. If he had stayed around then I think they could certainly have expanded on that further and continued to reveal layers to the character. They just don't instantly jump out because of his less talkative tendencies. Getting to see new elements now and then would have been great.

                      I get her disappointment, I certainly felt like that and it is more about wanting to see more of a couple/characters than watching them suddenly implode and one run for the hills I think. But from the perspective of what is best for the show, it brings in variety and less predictable directions and that's all to the good.

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                      • #32
                        I admit I'm bias as I often find 'nice' characters dull as hell. But even Seth Green left citing part Oz's lack of character development as part of the reason why.

                        The thing is I can never get out of my head is compared to years back nobody appears to want to delve further into the darker and imo more complex characters in these reactions? All of the Youtube crowd just seem to do is repeatedly throw themselves on the alter of 'wholesome' which imo is not what BTVS or ATS was about. Maybe they're too afraid of a negative audience backlash If they did? Everyone seems so scared of coming out of their collective comfort zone these days and personally I find that incredibly depressing.

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                        • redtent
                          redtent commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I noticed this too. I think the're afraid of backlash and everything that's not perfect is considered "toxic" these days.

                        • TimeTravellingBunny
                          TimeTravellingBunny commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Liam says "wholesome" as a joke. I'm sure he's aware that a lot of things he calls "wholesome" aren't really that. It's his way of saying something is great and he loves it.

                      • #33
                        I can understand that point of view but you can also like the other relationships and characters too. If there is one thing BtVS shows it is that everyone has hang ups and their own issues and I think you get some of that with all the characters. Some they dig more deeply into though of course, but you're never going to get that with everyone.

                        As to the reactors responses, I think they are aware of trying to keep their audience for sure. But I'm not sure that it stops them giving their own preferences completely, they are probably just more tentative on criticisms or seeming to take a stand that people could be offended by. I haven't watched anywhere near enough to know if they generally hold back and keep apologising for things (which is something I have noticed a little). It isn't much different in fandom though. People often pounce on each other unnecessarily because they have a different perspective. I've probably done it myself in discussions. We're an overly passionate lot sometimes and I can understand how that can be intimidating if people are being as rude as they sometimes feel they can be because of internet anonymity.

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                        • #34
                          Alley Box is up to Wild At Heart. I still haven't had the time to watch it and I'm quite behind on a lot of Buffy reactions in general.
                          https://youtu.be/YiSV5nptdrs
                          You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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                          • SpuffyGlitz
                            SpuffyGlitz commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I'm always curious about reactors' responses to the splitting up of Willoz. Not to spoil, but one reactor was absolutely gutted.

                        • #35
                          Yes I saw this at the end of the week and posted on it above. I think anyone following alley box would have a fair guess on how she was going to react to this episode.

                          I can't remember if I've asked before, do you watch failwhale too TimeTravellingBunny ?

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                        • #36
                          There's something about the Willow/Oz 'ship, at least until Veruca enters the scene, that seems to appeal to a lot of people's emotional need for at least one romantic relationship that is seen as stable, dependable, steadfast, and unbreakable. A relationship in which both parties are seen as perfect and made for each other and, to paraphrase a song by INXS, can never be torn apart. It's been my experience that for a lot of fans, in whatever era or year, Willow/Oz and later Willow/Tara served as that relationship. When the show first aired, a lot of online fans clung onto W/O as something that was safe, reliable and dependable, especially after Buffy/Angel and Xander/Cordelia had ended by the end of Season Three. There was an even larger mentality that refused to accept that the "old school" ships (B/A, W/O, X/C) would ever really end and that they would eventually all reunite before show's end. Especially when you compare the emphasis on passion and romance and feelings over sex found in the first 'ships, compared to how quickly sex enters the picture with first Buffy and Parker and then Buffy and Riley (not to mention how Season Four hammers home that sex is THE driving factor in Xander/Anya until very late in the season). I think the WB's reluctance to allow Willow/Tara to show much physical expression until The Body may have had the unintended side affect of getting so much of the audience on board with W/T as much and as quickly as they did because so much of what was focused on about their relationship was centered on their feelings and emotions.

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                          • #37
                            Am watching Alley Box's reaction to The Initiative and she is blown away by it. She's so excited to see Spike in the credits and she thinks Riley and Buffy are made for each other She thinks the Initiative are the coolest.

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                            • #38
                              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                              Am watching Alley Box's reaction to The Initiative and she is blown away by it. She's so excited to see Spike in the credits and she thinks Riley and Buffy are made for each other She thinks the Initiative are the coolest.
                              Fab, I hadn't seen she'd uploaded a new episode, that's great. I'm looking forward to watching that and have seen failwhale has posted on IWRY too. I'll try to catch both later today.

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                              • Priceless
                                Priceless commented
                                Editing a comment
                                Looking forward to hear your thoughts on The Initiative. I didn't watch Failwhale's IWRY as the episode doesn't do much for me.

                            • #39
                              My catch up on a whole bunch of reaction vids for alley box and failwhale included one each for BtVS too...

                              alley box - The Initiative - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32WK9VWtDQI
                              Her response to the first glimpse of The Initiative is great and the reaction to seeing JM up as a regular in the credits was really funny. No surprise that I'm glad she has so much energy and excitement for Spike's inclusion.

                              I like that the episode has given her more enthusiasm for the season, she obviously needed some reveals and intrigue. Relating it to waiting on Kate finding out about Angel over on AtS made sense, she wants a bit of anticipation in her viewing. Great positivity on the individual character moments. Hopefully Oz's brief return later will bring her some satisfaction there.


                              failwhale has posted his reaction to Something Blue too - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yLG_aPFR9U
                              Seeing a response to the flash return of Amy was fun. You can see plenty of enjoyment for this episode in his reaction and he talks about his appreciation for how they looked at the fallout of Oz leaving for Willow and getting insight there. I think he enjoys the humour but perhaps that eases a bit when he seems to feel things get goofy. It feels like it has been an age since I've watched any reactions but my feeling is that he tends to like the character insights most. Still a positive reaction though.

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                              • Priceless
                                Priceless commented
                                Editing a comment
                                I was a bit disappointed with Failwhale's reaction to Something Blue, but I think that's because I love the ep so much.

                            • #40
                              Priceless wrote: I was a bit disappointed with Failwhale's reaction to Something Blue, but I think that's because I love the ep so much.
                              I can understand that. It's interesting to see reactions that are different from our own but it is also nice to see someone experiencing things in the way you do yourself too. I'm trying to remember how he has responded to other more comedy focused episodes before, I've a feeling he tends to be a bit lukewarm when the humour gets more over the top. I do think he came across as if he enjoyed it, but was just not bowled over by it. I expect he'll like Hush a lot, who doesn't, and A New Man, but he may be a bit 'so-so' about a lot of the middle of the season.

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