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  • Fanon discontinuity thread?

    I've seen a lot of talk in different threads about what us Tropers refer to as "fanon discontuity," closely related to academic and fannish arguments over the value of authorial intent. Would it be acceptable if I started a new thread devoted to fanon discontinuity as it pertains to the Buffyverse, or is the topic too tangential for its own thread here?

  • #2
    Originally posted by ghoststar View Post
    I’ve seen a lot of talk in different threads about what us Tropers refer to as “fanon discontuity,” closely related to academic and fannish arguments over the value of authorial intent. Would it be acceptable if I started a new thread devoted to fanon discontinuity as it pertains to the Buffyverse, or is the topic too tangential for its own thread here?
    Every thread is the fanon discontinuity thread though
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    • #3
      Originally posted by ghoststar View Post
      I’ve seen a lot of talk in different threads about what us Tropers refer to as “fanon discontuity,” closely related to academic and fannish arguments over the value of authorial intent. Would it be acceptable if I started a new thread devoted to fanon discontinuity as it pertains to the Buffyverse, or is the topic too tangential for its own thread here?
      Of course it's okay. But for those of us who took the test when we were 7 and are a little slow in some things, what does 'fanon discontuity' mean?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Priceless View Post
        Of course it's okay. But for those of us who took the test when we were 7 and are a little slow in some things, what does 'fanon discontuity' mean?
        Are you my mother in disguise? Have you fallen out with Google again?

        "Fanon ("Fan Canon") Discontinuity is the act of fans mentally writing out certain events in a show's continuity which don't sit well, no matter if it's a single episode, a season-length arc, an entire season or even an entire series". https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...nDiscontinuity

        At least that's what TV Tropes says - I dunno - it's a foreign language to me. On the plus side, I have read Barthes' Death of the Author...
        Last edited by TriBel; 06-01-19, 09:04 PM.
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        • #5
          Is there ever such consensus on anything that gives it true meaning over canon though?? I can't think of anything in the Buffyverse which is so universally dismissed by everyone that the notion of fans writing off official canon means anything. Not beyond it being just individually expressed preferences which vary and so don't have any overriding solidity.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
            Is there ever such consensus on anything that gives it true meaning over canon though?? I can't think of anything in the Buffyverse which is so universally dismissed by everyone that the notion of fans writing off official canon means anything. Not beyond it being just individually expressed preferences which vary and so don't have any overriding solidity.
            Season 12 DOES NOT EXIST! Buffy was in the shower and it was all a dream....
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            • #7
              Originally posted by TriBel View Post
              Are you my mother in disguise? Have you fallen out with Google again?

              "Fanon ("Fan Canon") Discontinuity is the act of fans mentally writing out certain events in a show's continuity which don't sit well, no matter if it's a single episode, a season-length arc, an entire season or even an entire series". https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...nDiscontinuity

              At least that's what TV Tropes says - I dunno - it's a foreign language to me. On the plus side, I have read Barthes' Death of the Author...
              Oh so it's like people in another place saying nothing after S3 exists? Or the comics don't exist?

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by TriBel View Post
              Season 12 DOES NOT EXIST! Buffy was in the shower and it was all a dream....
              Season 12 does exist . . . it's just that they're all trapped in a hell dimension. Or Harth used his magic to throw them into an alternative universe.

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              • #8
                That's what it sounded like to me too, but with the idea that it is an agreed thing that therefore overrides official canon. I can't think of anything that works for in BtVS, not for so many fans that it runs true. No matter how much some individuals or groups might wish it could.

                I don't know other fandoms anywhere near the same to even hazard a guess if there are any where it meaningfully and realistically applies.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                  That's what it sounded like to me too, but with the idea that it is an agreed thing that therefore overrides official canon. I can't think of anything that works for in BtVS, not for so many fans that it runs true. No matter how much some individuals or groups might wish it could.

                  I don't know other fandoms anywhere near the same to even hazard a guess if there are any where it meaningfully and realistically applies.
                  It is hard to come up with anything that the whole of Buffy fandom agree on, that's true

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                  • #10
                    Everything after "Time of Your Life" needs a damn rewrite.
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                    • #11
                      But that's just an opinion. One that some people share for sure, but others don't, so it hardly overwrites canon. It just seems a term that is wishful thinking to me, if it is supposed to mean something over just an individual's personal, subjective preference. Which in itself doesn't literally change what canon is, it is just what each person likes/dislikes. Even if half the fans agree, the other half don't, so canon in truth remains what it is and just generates split opinions.

                      Seriously, are there any examples of fandoms where there is a general consensus amongst fans that something is discredited because it doesn't work where that is then treated as the truth over canon rather than just an individuals or a specific group's personal preference. I get that a lot of fans do it, I just don't see how it has any meaning other than personal preference if it isn't greatly agreed upon and that is never the case with such things in BtVS that I ever hear discussed.
                      Last edited by Stoney; 06-01-19, 10:55 PM.

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                      • #12
                        OK, here's something I think most fandom would agree on (now I'm saying it, I expect to be jumped on immediately) Although Willow herself calls herself gay, she is in fact bisexual. She had a crush on Giles and Xander, both of which seemed both sexual and emotional, and she had a loving, romantic, emotional and seemingly fulfilling sexual relationship with Oz for several seasons. So although in canon Willow says she's a lesbian, I think most fans would consider her bi.

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                        • #13
                          I can't bring myself to overwrite canon, though I'd probably love to be able to overwrite canon for certain shows (not Buffy). I don't feel any dissatisfaction with the Buffyverse canon overall (that is, BtVS, haven't seen all seasons of AtS yet), but I do know what canon frustration can feel like, I can def empathise. One of my other favourite TV shows (second to Buffy) was Roswell. In S1, I adored Max's character, how he was written in canon. By S2, it began to wane, by S3, it was a veritable mess and I could barely recognise the character any more and became increasingly disenchanted with his arc on the show. I could probably have come up with some theories to forcibly overwrite canon, contort facts to suit my original reading, but I just don't have the inclination to do it. What was done was done by that point. I brought myself to still like the aspects I could like, and focused mostly on the early seasons I loved.

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                          • #14
                            Oh, does that mean, I can say the Buffyverse ended with season 11 and claim fanon discontinuity? "Fanon discontinuity says BtVS ended with the ILYT" sounds so much more important than "flow says BtVS ended with the ILYT".

                            flow

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by flow View Post
                              Oh, does that mean, I can say the Buffyverse ended with season 11 and claim fanon discontinuity? "Fanon discontinuity says BtVS ended with the ILYT" sounds so much more important than "flow says BtVS ended with the ILYT".

                              flow
                              Works for me

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                              • #16
                                All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



                                * It's very likely that fewer people than read Season 10 and after consider those Seasons canon.

                                I dismiss "fanon discontinuity". I dismiss Season 10 and after because too much of it is directly opposed to previously established canon and even opposed to earlier Season 10 stuff. And it's simply silly to consider Christos Gage or whoever can change TV Buffyverse canon and can 'ret-con' TV Buffyverse and Season 8 stuff.

                                What I find much more interesting is those who consider Jasmine wasn't responsible for much of the stuff in AtS S1-S3. If you consider Angel/Darla in AtS wasn't because of Jasmine, you should likely somehow conclude that Angel loves Darla more than Angel loved/s Buffy.

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                                • #17
                                  I mean, I’ve totally disregarded the comics as canon since late Season 9 at least. I have no interest in the Gageverse and people can shout that it’s canon all they like, but it does not remotely impact my view of the story or the characters. And my enthusiasm waned during the Chambliss years which were truly awful. I liked Season 8 and it’s harder for me to remove it from my mind completely, but sadly it’s easier for me to just disregard it and leave the show as it ended in Season 7 then only keep Season 8 as canon in my mind.

                                  As far as I’m concerned Season 8-12 is an AU. A sometimes fun - often not - “what if?” of where the story has gone. Season 8 felt more real to me because it involved not only Whedon but so many of the TV writers but I don’t care what Gage has to say about Buffy. Not only do I think he’s a terrible writer but he had absolutely no involvement in the show I loved. He had nothing to do with creating it or writing it and I’m not sure why I’m meant to be invested in what he thinks of it.

                                  So yeah, for me the story ended in Season 7. It’s got easier with time to forget the comics even existed.

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                                  • #18
                                    Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                                    But that's just an opinion. One that some people share for sure, but others don't, so it hardly overwrites canon. It just seems a term that is wishful thinking to me, if it is supposed to mean something over just an individual's personal, subjective preference. Which in itself doesn't literally change what canon is, it is just what each person likes/dislikes. Even if half the fans agree, the other half don't, so canon in truth remains what it is and just generates split opinions.

                                    Seriously, are there any examples of fandoms where there is a general consensus amongst fans that something is discredited because it doesn't work where that is then treated as the truth over canon rather than just an individuals or a specific group's personal preference. I get that a lot of fans do it, I just don't see how it has any meaning other than personal preference if it isn't greatly agreed upon and that is never the case with such things in BtVS that I ever hear discussed.
                                    I think my best proper example would be my post on the other thread about just blowing off "Happy Anniversary" as a mythological event that on its own justified bringing Angel back after "Becoming", because I didn't want to count it.
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                                    • #19
                                      I orientate along S1-8 (including the Willow one-shot). I don't like S6-7, but they're quite fanwank-y because of their lose inherent coherence and they make me at least angry. It's unfortunate when somebody refers to an occurence in S9-12 (which I'd best describe as "anti-engaging") to make a point in a discussion but well... life's a bitch.

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                                      • #20
                                        As an academic, "canon" has a different meaning for me.

                                        The term “literary canon” refers to a body of books, narratives and other texts considered to be the most important and influential of a particular time period, place or genre. I'd also use it as almost synonymous with "oeuvre" - for example the Dickens canon (which might refer to the collected works OR the works considered most significant within the collected works. It depends on the context).

                                        In relation to BtVS, I'll count as canon whatever Whedon says is canon. How I interpret those texts is a different matter.
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