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Buffy killing the Knights of Byzantium (or did she?)

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  • #61
    I really have no problem with heroes killing in self defense.

    I also hate the whole "if you kill him then you become just like him"trope. In recent years I've really come to hate the Joker. Every Joker story seems to try and top the last one in terms of body count. I actually think that Batman's no kill rule makes him look weak and ineffective(Tim Burton Batman is best Batman). I'm all for giving people second chances, but after Joker's 100th escape from Arkham asylum it's clear that Joker won't change, and Batman really should kill him.
    My deviantart:


  • #62
    Originally posted by flow View Post
    During discussions of the show, some people often point out that Buffy values a human life above anything. However, there is also a counterargument being made that states she does in fact kill humans throughout the show.

    The most common examples are the zookeeper, the swim coach, Faith (attempted), and the Knights of Byzantium.

    However, I am not convinced Buffy did ever kill a single Knight of Byzantium at all, let alone several.

    Buffy and the Scoobies are being attacked by the Knights while they are on the run from Glory in a stolen Winnebago. I have rewatched the scene several times for this post. There are eight, maybe nine Knights on horses coming after them. The first counterattack is made by Giles who swerves the Winnebago towards two or three Knights on horses. We don't get a good view of how this worked but in the following shots, there are still at least eight Knights chasing after the Winnebago. Gile's attack seemed to have had little to no effect. And it was, of course, Giles who drove the Winnebago, not Buffy.

    Buffy then goes up onto the roof and fights four Knights. She throws three of them off the rooftop. They fall down from a height of about 2,5 meters from a moving vehicle. They land on soft, sandy ground. Does that kill a human? It certainly does not kill Buffy. She falls off the roof herself a moment later and is fine.

    The fourth knight is a different story. Buffy throws an axe into his chest and he falls backward off the ladder. Now, a battle axe sticking out of someone's chest does look deadly. But it isn't. Those knights were all wearing chain mail. This is an armor that was designed to withstand sharp blades. Usually, a padded lining was worn underneath. What an axe usually did was break a bone or ribs by the sheer amount of force with which it hit. It did not kill by actually hitting and injuring the heart or any major blood vessels. And I think we can assume that the blade got stuck in the chainmail and the padded lining, not in the ribcage of the knight in question.

    There is a fifth knight whom Anya hits with a pan. To me, it does not look like a killing strike at all.

    Later in the gas station, Buffy fights another knight. She flips him over her shoulder and he could be either unconscious or dead. We don't get any information about this but if he had cracked his skull there should be blood (and brain) spiling everywhere and if he had broken his neck we should have heard a respective sound.

    In the following discussion with the second-in-command of the knights, the latter says ten of his men are dead. Well, that might be the case (he killed one himself only a minute ago) but surely Buffy did not kill ten guys. She didn't even meet or fight ten of them. There were at the most four on the Winnebago and one inside the gas station plus Anya's knight. And none of them were in deadly danger. So, either second-in-command was exaggerating or lying or maybe he referred to deaths that happened along the way while they were chasing Glory. Maybe the hobbits killed ten of his men.

    Do you think Buffy killed one or more of the Knights of Byzantium and if so whom and how?

    At the time of the episode on the Buffy board Steve Deknight confirmed they were humans. He said it was self defence and therefore justified