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Vampire "brothel" in Into the Woods

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  • #21
    Originally posted by flow View Post
    I wonder if we would feel as uncomfortable about this scene if the vamp who run away had been male.
    For me it's not so much about her being a woman (though I might have an unconscious bias), but rather the fact that she was the "prostitute" being "used" by Riley. I think I would've reacted the same way if said "prostitute" had been male.

    Also, what differentiates it from other times she stabbed monsters in the back is, ironically, the fact that she hesitates. Somehow it puts more weight to it.
    What a challenge, honesty
    What a struggle to learn to speak
    Who would've thought that pretending was easier


    • #22

      Fire: consuming and being consumed.

      The rightness of Buffy's charge is incomplete.

      The brothel/crack house is not only a view of Buffy's "morality." The free will of humans is intersecting with vampires in social dysfunction; no one is gonna die in the desire for relief, but in the manner in which it is expressed. A. the purchase of using another being as mere object; B. addiction.

      The idea of "using" people/beings for ?just sex' isn't about the "just sex." (Again, a person will not die for lack of ?just sex' in itself, let alone with another person when masturbation is any option. It is the idea of requiring the social interaction of sex without regard for the person providing it-the idea of person as "body parts"/ ?meat' and not in the idea of humans, who can face each other, and who get ?naked' for other reasons than clothes removal.

      Second, the idea of addiction suggests that the relief from pain becomes pain itself and that requires other social availabilities because the literal brains of the addicted are being changed physically, not just in the psychological and, thus, emotional reasons for the manifestations that maintain addictive needs and behaviors.

      Buffy's choices that advance "gray area" thinking is actually not as "gray" as this would suggest. It is difficult, yes, but "yes" and "no" are rather the active result of choice in "how far" until actual "life and death" are the absolute result. Buffy is "life and death" in service to HUMANS.

      So, Buffy's "job" is to protect humans, but she is not positioned in any way to be a social worker, medic, or psychologist.

      Most human social orders are positioned to protect the youngest first, not people of "age of consent"-and the real fact in USA is that the protection of property is a higher call than the "free will, age-of-consent" people, who need available measures of support when their self harm actually does harm the society-even if considered "petty" or misdemeanors.

      A lot of crime goes on behind closed doors and even an "act of Congress" doesn't seem to bring light to it. See all things Me, Too and other abuse. Buffy isn't even a "cop" whose job is to ARREST-stop. She stops or kills. Buffy has the mandate to kill the vampire, the demon, and she has found that ?potential' even in this world is possible because ?once upon a time' she met and loved Angel, further, these were human beings, some she knew. Buffy has such a need for "the good" to actually be seen as the "change she makes in the world," she treats vampirism like a serious illness, or a problem of the truly mad. She hopes. She also can't lie forever and be true to herself, as both slayer and human.

      I think that burning down the building was not only a slayer thing, a personal convenience to actually prevent the on-going opportunism of creating and maintaining actual dangerous addiction, but it forces the notion of "moral order" in the rest of society to ?pay attention" to possible potential here.

      It also means Buffy upholds the value of a person, an idea she struggles with, in her ?place in society" and within her own introverted heart how she views herself. She does stand up for how one expects one's own person to be respected when shared, as well as the well-being of one's partner.

      I also think "reality' offers a "get help" opportunity for humans, to "take note" what they are doing and how they are being "sucked dry" in self and in resources and from doing better things, but it is "notice" to the wider social order, who seems to consider "real estate" as the shaper of neighborhoods and their own behavior, rather than their own ability to change the use of these spaces for better purpose.

      IF, this abuse on both physical and emotional support is being allowed-not merely in the notion of charity, but in actual concern that the health of all does indeed provide a kind of ?herd protection' as well as a foundation for greater freedoms and actualizations of independent adult, THE LACK is also the groundwork of cults, and stultifying imprisonments, for that which is easily tolerated becomes the norm for social ?moral' order, for many reasons. See marijuana debate, see gender roles, see religious overreach in education and empowerment of "enforcers" by the self same oppressed in whatever the heck is of "family values," nationalism, et al. See the simple reality of the "local bar" in ?Booniesville' NE, in which cops literally wait just off the parking lot to arrest people for ?driving under the influence' when there is de facto no other way to get there than to drive. And why does the bar owner provide a parking lot? Why was providing ?food' forced on the independent businessman who has but one duty: profit? Why can he now be sued for ?allowing' over indulgence, when he is neither doctor nor has provided any scientific test that would actually "stand up?"

      Because people in pain seek relief, not death, and those situations where ?death is allowed' harm the whole of society's notion of human connection/obligation to all other humans: morality.

      So, however Buffy felt about any of it, she did the right thing, even if she felt bad about it, and can't quite justify why she isn't "just slaughtering" every demon/vampire et al in sight. She met Angel. She held out hopes for his soul and it was returned to him. She recognizes ?the stain of humanity' that holds her intuitive interest in Spike and she recognizes the mad. In the human world, this hope for human * potential * means we don't kill humans, but there is no "system of justice" for demons, other than the slayer, and no system of "mental health" for their mad.

      I am sorry that even we humans are stumbling around in the dark in our ability to cure all ills, in the time we live and learn, but, as Buffy did go to kill Angelus, finally-and a human's jealous reasons don't change the objective fact-it was also another human (Willow) that gave answer to a being (Angel) who really couldn't figure out how to suffer enough-until he did.

      Buffy should have staked Spike, Dru, and Harmony. Comedic relief doesn't warrant zero effort against serial killers who are against humans. As many point out, there are alternatives and that is a ?hallmark' to being human: finding them. Vampires ?naturally' don't. They only have hierarchies of power and that convenience.

      Those creatures who live apart from humans or with whom humans must respect ?nature's laws' and boundaries are warned to listen carefully to that "rule of law" or face self extinction. We are ?connected'-but reality says "morality" is a whole lot of (human) POV under the scrutiny of different kinds of "law."

      I recall ?In the Heat of the Night' actor Carroll O' Connor's lines regarding the death penalty for humans, and it was that a man about to be executed would be told he had been spared. When the smile of relief washed over his face, to put a bullet into the back of brain (he'd be dead before he hit the floor). So that says, killing a vampire that thought it had been spared, was not cruel, but de facto obeyed the "law" of a being who wouldn't or couldn't change until the pattern of behavior was "all too sad, too bad, and too late." (And that self-doubt in considering personal vengeance didn't miss "the point" of "death penalty" only justice, but is actually dealing with "absolutes" Buffy always fought to balance in her compassion and in her duty to self and to the whole of the world.