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Preview for Buffy: The High School Years - Freaks & Geeks

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  • #21
    Originally posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Assuming he didn't just say that because he knew they were gonna get cancelled anyway which is what I'm rapidly beginning to believe.
    There's nothing to suggest that at all. If you look back at reports/articles on the show during that time there was never any speculation that the series would be cancelled. The only speculation was whether or not SMG would chose to return and if the series would choose to continue without her. Not to mention that they actually pitched a Faith spinoff to Eliza Dushku (who declined) which suggests that the UPN wasn't looking to part ways with the Buffy brand.

    If the show was in danger of being cancelled it would have absolutely been made public knowledge if not at the time then certainly in all the years after wards. Just compare it to how open and transparent the writers were about AtS's cancellation and the behind the scenes drama. It would be very, very rare that a network was looking to cancel a TV series and that it was never leaked to the press.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
      There's nothing to suggest that at all. If you look back at reports/articles on the show during that time there was never any speculation that the series would be cancelled. The only speculation was whether or not SMG would chose to return and if the series would choose to continue without her. Not to mention that they actually pitched a Faith spinoff to Eliza Dushku (who declined) which suggests that the UPN wasn't looking to part ways with the Buffy brand.

      If the show was in danger of being cancelled it would have absolutely been made public knowledge if not at the time then certainly in all the years after wards. Just compare it to how open and transparent the writers were about AtS's cancellation and the behind the scenes drama. It would be very, very rare that a network was looking to cancel a TV series and that it was never leaked to the press.
      Sarah announced she was leaving right before the end of February, which is typically when speculation starts when the back 9 start airing. That's when it was announced publicly, which means people knew probably in January. There wasn't really time to speculate. Ratings were down, reviews were bad and Buffy+UPN was a bad match from the start.

      The writers weren't transparent about Angel being cancelled at all. It wasn't until Fury leaked it in a Jozcik interview much later that the details were revealed. Joss wanted an early renewal and received an early cancellation. That was again in February.

      To go along with that, Whedon made his comment that I referenced on the DVDs, again, much later than the actual events. Which was my point. He clearly wanted things to continue in some form if not the original and *later* tagged on the better to go out with a bang than fade away. He wanted a Faith spinoff, a school-type spinoff. We know this. Yet later he claimed he was exhausted and it was time.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by HardlyThere View Post
        Sarah announced she was leaving right before the end of February, which is typically when speculation starts when the back 9 start airing. That's when it was announced publicly, which means people knew probably in January. There wasn't really time to speculate. Ratings were down, reviews were bad and Buffy+UPN was a bad match from the start.
        The speculation that Sarah was going to leave the series started before S7 even began. You can literally go back and hunt down articles from it on the Whedonesque archives. The speculation was whether they'd chose to continue the series without her (or Joss as there was speculation he'd be leaving all together as well) not whether the series would even continue at all. Which is extremely odd if a series is in danger of being cancelled due to bad ratings or the network being unhappy with it because that stuff always leaks.

        The writers weren't transparent about Angel being cancelled at all. It wasn't until Fury leaked it in a Jozcik interview much later that the details were revealed.
        He didn't "leak" anything he was just transparent about it. He told the truth. No conspiracy, no cover up, no pretending that they didn't get cancelled, all the things you're pretty much accusing Joss and all of his cast and writers of, and something you think they have all kept hidden for 13 years. Honestly, there's no basis to it and it just seems like you want to rewrite history so you have another reason to dislike the guy.

        Joss wanted an early renewal and received an early cancellation.
        Yep. We know this because Joss has said so himself and because Fury has said so as well. Just like by now we pretty much know every bit of backstage gossip, drama, rumours, fights, Buffy's near cancellation in S5, the WB's meddling with AtS S5 etc etc. If the truth was that UPN was going to cancel BtVS anyway and Joss and Sarah pretty much lied it would've come out by now. It would've come out then.

        We know this. Yet later he claimed he was exhausted and it was time.
        He claimed he was exhausted with BtVS which is not remotely the same thing as saying he was exhausted with the Buffyverse overall. Not to mention that you have no idea how much time he planned to devote to these spinoff ideas or if they'd even compare to the amount of time he worked on BtVS.

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        • #24
          On the subject of Whedon being exhausted and the proposed Faith spin-off, I did see a convention where a fan asked with Eliza Dushku about that. She said that she had a meeting with Joss and Tim Minear about it. Joss had basically told her that he was exhausted at the time with doing too many shows (because at the time Firefly had just been cancelled and BtVS had ended and he was getting ready to do AtS S5), and so he'd basically just start the Faith project off and pass it off to Tim. But Eliza didn't want to do it unless Joss was going to be behind it 100%, and she just went ahead and did Tru Calling. I saw it months ago but it's somewhere on YouTube, and I don't have the time to find it, but I will look for it because I try to back up my claims as much as I can.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
            The speculation that Sarah was going to leave the series started before S7 even began. You can literally go back and hunt down articles from it on the Whedonesque archives. The speculation was whether they'd chose to continue the series without her (or Joss as there was speculation he'd be leaving all together as well) not whether the series would even continue at all. Which is extremely odd if a series is in danger of being cancelled due to bad ratings or the network being unhappy with it because that stuff always leaks.
            There was talk of the ratings dropping back when S6 because they dropped the male fanbase en masse. They even asked SMG and MN about it in an interview the drop was so large. That aside, what part of SMG quitting right at the time when cancellation speculation typically starts ramping up went over your head? Mediaweek tracked UPN's dismal numbers and noted that it was dipping near S1 territory. Now maybe speculation wasn't posted on Whedonesque, but it was very rampant everywhere else from C&S to alt.tv. Moonves flat-out said not to count on it coming back in January at the Winter tour and that they were not going to pay more than the 2.3M/ep they were dealed at--a deal he noted he did not make--and they were cost-cutting with homegrown shows.

            He didn't "leak" anything he was just transparent about it. He told the truth. No conspiracy, no cover up, no pretending that they didn't get cancelled, all the things you're pretty much accusing Joss and all of his cast and writers of, and something you think they have all kept hidden for 13 years. Honestly, there's no basis to it and it just seems like you want to rewrite history so you have another reason to dislike the guy.
            Transparency happens right away. Not a year later in an interview about another TV show. I also never said they pretended it wasn't cancelled. Not about Buffy and certainly not about Angel. I said he probably knew Buffy would be cancelled. Which he probably did, see above.

            Yep. We know this because Joss has said so himself and because Fury has said so as well. Just like by now we pretty much know every bit of backstage gossip, drama, rumours, fights, Buffy's near cancellation in S5, the WB's meddling with AtS S5 etc etc. If the truth was that UPN was going to cancel BtVS anyway and Joss and Sarah pretty much lied it would've come out by now. It would've come out then.
            No, you *think* you know it all. Again, since comprehension doesn't seem to suit you, I said it was probable, not definite. When something is costing you 3x more and only pulling the same rating as its debut year, cancellation is in the future. When the head of bloody network says don't look for it, cancellation is likely.

            He claimed he was exhausted with BtVS which is not remotely the same thing as saying he was exhausted with the Buffyverse overall. Not to mention that you have no idea how much time he planned to devote to these spinoff ideas or if they'd even compare to the amount of time he worked on BtVS.
            But I thought we knew everything? Too exhausted for Buffy, not too exhausted for all the other characters minus the main, plus Angel.

            What the hell is this side track even about? All I said was his previous stance of not letting your lack of ideas or drive show in the work seems to have changed as these comics not only keep going on, but now are going back into show territory. The drifting of S9 and S10 was one I believe you even echoed when S11 was announced. Then you get all butthurt 'cause I said he probably knew what any non-idiot would know in late 02/03: the future of Buffy was grim. If it's hating to not think he lives under a rock, then yeah, I'm hating.

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            • #26
              Yikes

              Originally posted by HardlyThere View Post
              If it's hating to not think he lives under a rock, then yeah, I'm hating.
              I'm pretty sure you're hating because you spend most of your time criticising the guy or bashing him in some way. To use a phrase you seem fond of, I don't get why you're so "butthurt" that I pointed it out when a consistent theme of your posts is "Joss sucks." Was nobody supposed to notice? I don't get it? Why get so defensive and squeamish about it as if it's a ridiculous accusation when you've haven't been remotely shy about it? Comprehension "may not suit me" (thanks by the way!) but I guess even illiterate idiots like me can see what's right in front of me. Sorry I hit a nerve *shrugs*

              Originally posted by VisionGuy View Post
              On the subject of Whedon being exhausted and the proposed Faith spin-off, I did see a convention where a fan asked with Eliza Dushku about that. She said that she had a meeting with Joss and Tim Minear about it. Joss had basically told her that he was exhausted at the time with doing too many shows (because at the time Firefly had just been cancelled and BtVS had ended and he was getting ready to do AtS S5), and so he'd basically just start the Faith project off and pass it off to Tim. But Eliza didn't want to do it unless Joss was going to be behind it 100%, and she just went ahead and did Tru Calling. I saw it months ago but it's somewhere on YouTube, and I don't have the time to find it, but I will look for it because I try to back up my claims as much as I can.
              Yes thank you. Faith was always intended to be Minear's show.

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              • #27
                I'm reminded of the immortal words of Joel, Gale Weathers' cameraman in Scream 2, on the relative importance to his own safety of how her prior cameraman had died -- "gutted, slashed, the guy ain't in the union no more". I really just don't think history can care that much what Whedon's motivations were or weren't, how much "Firefly" affected it, etc. Once his star was gone, "Buffy" was gone, no matter which was the chicken or the egg, when Sarah was out, all ambiguity or ambivalence on his part ceased to matter.
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                • #28
                  Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                  I'm reminded of the immortal words of Joel, Gale Weathers' cameraman in Scream 2, on the relative importance to his own safety of how her prior cameraman had died -- "gutted, slashed, the guy ain't in the union no more". I really just don't think history can care that much what Whedon's motivations were or weren't, how much "Firefly" affected it, etc. Once his star was gone, "Buffy" was gone, no matter which was the chicken or the egg, when Sarah was out, all ambiguity or ambivalence on his part ceased to matter.
                  I recall that there were some in the audience who claimed that the show could go on without SMG, if another character (usually their favorite) were to be moved into the central/lead role instead. At the time, the usual suspects for "bumping up" were Spike, Faith, and Willow. I remember one very Spike-centric British fan on LiveJournal who talked extensively about she "imprinted" on 70's British TV shows like "Robin Hood" and "Blake's Seven" -- shows that went on after the actor playing the lead role left, or the titular/lead character was written out altogether -- and how she couldn't understand why American TV audiences and producers weren't able to get over losing the title/lead character and letting one of the "support" characters take over lead duties (especially if she thought the supporting character was "more interesting" than the title character).

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                  • #29
                    Second Buffy High School Yeats One-Shot Comic Announced.

                    http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...hment-one-shot

                    Buffy Heads Back to Class in Dark Horse's "High School Years - Glutton for Punishment" One-Shot

                    Following "Freaks and Geeks," Buffy returns to high school in Dark Horse's upcoming "Glutton for Punishment" one-shot.

                    Anthony Couto, Assistant Editor


                    Cover for "Buffy: The High School Years - Glutton for Punishment" #1

                    Dark Horse Comics has announced a new one-shot set during Season 1 of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," titled "Buffy: The High School Years -- Glutton for Punishment."

                    Kel McDonald ("Angel & Faith: Season 10") is writing the latest installment of the young adult series with Yishan Li ("Convergence: Blue Beetle") on art duties. Creator Joss Whedon ("The Avengers") is continuing his role on the series as executive producer.

                    The one-shot follows June's "Buffy: The High School Years -- Freaks and Geeks" issue, which was also illustrated by Yishan Li.

                    Here's the description of the "Glutton for Punishment" story, from an official press release: "When Buffy and Xander sign up for home ec, assuming it will be an extra-credit cakewalk, they aren’t aware that the teacher is a ravenous tiger demon in disguise. The demon’s unquenchable appetite has him kidnapping his top students and forcing them to cook for him, and when Xander claims some store-bought treats are his own creations, he becomes the demon’s next victim! It’s not enough that Buffy has to keep her grades up, but she also has to rescue her friends and fellow students—and give the tiger demon his just desserts!"

                    "Buffy: The High School Years -- Glutton for Punishment" -- currently available for pre-order at Amazon -- hits stands on October 19.

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