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  • #41
    Originally posted by sueworld View Post
    Yes, but have to say Spike was often the character written as a kind of truth teller (not always I know) and for all we know his "no you don't" could be the real deal so to speak.
    So why would be be the 'truth teller' in that moment but not when he used to tell Buffy that she loved him and she denied it?

    And call me crazy, but the idea that the end of Buffy's story (and it was meant to be the end at the time) should be her declaring love to a guy but then having her world negated and that we were supposed to take his words over hers because he knew better, really doesn't sit well with me.

    I've never been able to understand how the narrative works in that scenario, considering the fact that Buffy is the protagonist. Buffy kept saying she would never love this guy, but then we have 3 seasons of development of their relationship where lots of things happen that she didn't expect and could never see happening, she develops feelings for him and it all ends with her learning to... accept that she still doesn't love him? I'm really not sure what the point of that story would have been. I can only see it working as a Spike's story - and it seems to me that people who appreciate this story but believe that "Spike was right" and Buffy didn't love him are seeing it as a story about Spike, with Buffy as a supporting character in the role of an inspiration and elusive object of desire. But where's the Buffy of it? What did any of it mean for her? What was it in her story? Three seasons seems a lot to waste on the story about Buffy going from not loving a guy and convinced she never will - to still not loving him.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    • #42
      So why would be be the 'truth teller' in that moment but not when he used to tell Buffy that she loved him and she denied it?
      Maybe because that was early in their relationship and he was blinding himself at that point? Hey, I never said the writing was consistent.

      But where's the Buffy of it? What did any of it mean for her? What was it in her story? Three seasons seems a lot to waste on the story about Buffy going from not loving a guy and convinced she never will to still not loving him.
      Maybe that through her relationship with him and her faith in his abilities that she created a warrior for light? That she helped shape a person who would gladly sacrifice himself for the world, not just because he loved her but because now he knew it was the right thing to do.

      He says as much right at the end there from what I remember.
      Last edited by sueworld; 13-05-12, 02:28 PM.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by sueworld View Post
        Maybe because that was early in their relationship and he was blinding himself at that point? Hey, I never said the writing was consistent.
        It's odd to complain about the writing being "inconsistent" with Spike being this incredibly observant truth-teller who understands Buffy and everyone's else's feelings better than they do themselves - when the idea he was ever supposed to be that is fanon. Spike is sometimes right, sometimes wrong just as everyone else. Especially since Spike has changed his opinion about Buffy's feelings for him lots of times.


        Maybe that through her relationship with him and her faith in his abilities that she created a warrior for light? That she helped shape a person who would gladly sacrifice himself for the world, not just because he loved her but because now he knew it was the right thing to do.

        He says as much right at the end there from what I remember.
        That's still a story predominantly about Spike and tells me very little about Buffy's emotional journey. I don't see from that why Spike would be more important to her than Andrew (also someone she redeemed) or why he would be used as the primary love interest for 2+ seasons.
        You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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        • #44
          It's odd to complain about the writing being "inconsistent"
          Didn't complain, did I?

          That's still a story predominantly about Spike and tells me very little about Buffy's emotional journey.
          Err, tough? That appears to be the path the writers took when they started to draw Spike into the proceedings. It was flagged up right from Beneath You where they were going with his character.

          I don't see from that why Spike would be more important to her than Andrew (also someone she redeemed) or why he would be used as the primary love interest for 2+ seasons.
          I believe by then they knew that they had a section of the audience interested in the Spike/Buffy relationship, something you just couldn't do with Andrew quite as well for all sorts of reasons.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by sueworld View Post
            Yes, but have to say Spike was often the character written as a kind of truth teller (not always I know) and for all we know his "no you don't" could be the real deal so to speak.

            Thing is they thought that the story was ending there, and so of course the awkwardness begins the minute a writer picks up the reins and try's to guide the story forward again and either plow right though what happened in Chosen by simply ignoring what happened (which the comics did) of address it, which they appear to refuse to do.

            So gleaming what I have from what I've seen so far it only makes me see it as her comment to him in Chosen was a heat of the moment thing and that now she's confronted with him again, well, now she's not so keen to follow through.
            He's not always the knower of truth, I actually think that he is often a tad late on the truth of the matter or he's misinformed.

            When he believed she loved him, she didn't.

            When he actually believed that she didn't love him, she actually did.

            If it was just a heat of the moment thing, then why in that picture of her two major love interests is Spike with her alongside Angel?

            Buffy has always been in major denial when it comes to Spike so I wonder if it would be any different? Its like she took 1 step forward and two steps back..
            Last edited by BuffySpike; 13-05-12, 03:51 PM.
            Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
            the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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            • #46
              Regarding writer's intention of at least one ME writer, Jane Espenson - a really big self-admitted Spuffy shipper - described Buffy and Spike in an interview to Succubus Club at the end of season 6 as "two immature people who just can't see each other", i.e. keep misunderstanding each other and missing the boat.
              You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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