Episode battle: Expecting vs She

[Stoney]

These are the two weakest episodes of S1 I think. Heck arguably of the show. So I thought pitting them against each other would help to draw out the strengths they do offer.

My initial feeling is that She has more of an interesting background theme with FGM (which I hadn't clocked when first watching it but KingofCretins pointed out to me). And the initial suggestion of other dimensions works well with other elements that come later in the show in subsequent seasons. The 'heat' between her and Angel feels corny though.

The pluses that jump out in my memory for Expecting are Wes' support of Cordelia at the scan which is lovely and how much he and Angel rush to help her is great for the building team/family feel. The whole punished for sex element with Cordelia though after Buffy/Angel of BtVS is tedious.

[vampmogs]

Oh easily Expecting for me!

I have watched every episode of the Buffyverse so many times I have lost count, however, I must have only ever seen She 10 times at most. I could recite very little of it and that's because I find it so atrociously bad. I rewatched it again recently for the first time in years and I was amazed at just how awful it was, even worse than I remembered! It doesn't even feel like an episode of AtS to me. The dialogue and directing feel like they're from a different (lesser) series and it feels more Sci-Fi then supernatural. Does it have any good moments? Well of course everyone remembers the Angel dancing montage from the beginning of the episode. There's no episode of the Buffyverse that doesn't have something good or passable in it. However, I can say very little else about it and to be honest the dancing scene always feels more like I'm watching DB goof around then Angel's character.

I actually don't like the themes of FGM throughout the episode. I think they make a mess of it by including the power of the female demons that make men lose control over themselves. It still doesn't justify mutilating them like the male race of demons tries to do but it does feed into pretty classic misogynistic rhetoric that portrays men as powerless under the seduction of women and "can''t control themselves." Definitely the worst episode of either series for me!

I don't mind Epiphany *shrugs* I agree that it plays into the evil pregnancy/sex is bad trope that plague these shows and AtS in particular which is annoying. However, as a standalone episode it has some pretty enjoyable moments. As you say, the moments between Angel/Cordy/Wes are definitely heartwarming and capture that chosen family feel that S1 does so well. The scan scene itself is always pretty humorous and enjoyable to me and I love Cordy drinking Angel's blood. It's definitely not "high art" but it entertains me at least and it has a fairly good sense of humour about it.

[Priceless]

I voted for Expecting. I really don't like She. Why was Angel doing an FGM episode anyway? That's just a weird combination, a show about a vampire detective doing an episode on FGM. Who bought that to the writers table? Was it big news at the time in the US? In the UK it's only been (in my experience) the last decade when FGM has come to prominence, when people were finally being prosecuted for it.

When they deal with race and racist cops, they show actual racist cops (zombies yes, but still, an attempt was made to be real within this supernatural world) but for FGM they made it about alien women, sexy alien women. FGM happens to little girls, babies, here on earth. I really didn't put what we saw in the episode together with FGM until I read about it years later.

Anyway, I love Cordelia, even demon pregnant Cordelia is better than no Cordelia. And this is a much better depiction of forced pregnancy than FGM in She.

[Lostsoul666]

She has the funny little "Slice of life" moments such as Angel, and Wesley at the party. Angel smoshing the coffee bag with his vampire strength, and Wesley falling on the coffee beans which kind of save the episode for me, and make up for the god awful main plot.

Expecting has some nice moments, but in hindsight it's kind of a foreshadowing for Cordelia's fate on the show, since the writer's kept going back too in future seasons. In season 2 Cordelia gets inflected by the Skilosh which is kind of like getting impregnated. And Cordelia gets possessed by Jasmine in season 4, and impregnated while she's possessed. It's really hard to go back and watch Expecting.

She gets my vote.

When they deal with race and racist cops, they show actual racist cops (zombies yes, but still, an attempt was made to be real within this supernatural world)

The zombie cop episode(The Thin Dead Line)has aged very well in a post Black Lives Matter world. Personally I think that it's an underrated episode.

[Stoney]

I voted for Expecting. I really don't like She. Why was Angel doing an FGM episode anyway? That's just a weird combination, a show about a vampire detective doing an episode on FGM. Who bought that to the writers table? Was it big news at the time in the US? In the UK it's only been (in my experience) the last decade when FGM has come to prominence, when people were finally being prosecuted for it.

When they deal with race and racist cops, they show actual racist cops (zombies yes, but still, an attempt was made to be real within this supernatural world) but for FGM they made it about alien women, sexy alien women. FGM happens to little girls, babies, here on earth. I really didn't put what we saw in the episode together with FGM until I read about it years later.

Anyway, I love Cordelia, even demon pregnant Cordelia is better than no Cordelia. And this is a much better depiction of forced pregnancy than FGM in She.

I've found the shows have opened my eyes to a lot of different experiences and social issues and so I suppose I welcomed the inclusion of FGM, even if it was in a weaker episode. I do take your point that it is something that happens across ages and not just sexy adults and the episode showing the issue from that stance could be seen to reduce it to and feed into the misogynistic rhetoric that portrays men as powerless as Mogs says. But I suppose the motivation for such acts of violence can be greatly rooted in mindsets where women do hold unnatural power that should be dominated and suppressed, as if they are all wanton sirens and the show leans into that, but obviously it isn't supporting it. I can see that it would have been better if there hadn't been a literal power there which had the hormonal 'heat' response though. And it perhaps is an odd fit in some ways for AtS to go there, but it is also a crime, so also perhaps not.

I always find the episode battles hard but this one for me is tough because I do love the group feels that I get at points in Expecting. But She made me consider something that is still an ongoing and horrific social problem and that is a definite plus. To have reminders of the atrocities that others experience. So I enjoyed one more but feel like I gained something personally from the other.

[Priceless]

I haven't watched the ep in a long time, perhaps I'm missing some nuance.

[Stoney]

I think it is more that it raised a topic for me that I rarely if ever had put any thought into before. Even if they didn't do it justice or do it well.

[Stoney]

I ended up voting for Expecting in the end. It was one moment that pushed me to do it, it's Wes' reply when he's with Cordy as she's having the scan and she quietly tells him the babies aren't human. The way Alexis delivers, "I imagine that’s true.” is so full of sympathy for Cordy and worry for her. It's really sad and heartfelt and gets me every time at how much what she is going through is upsetting them. It's a stark contrast to the responses between them in the later seasons.

I still do highly value the prompt to think that She gave me though, I just don't like any moments in the episode like I get in Expecting.