Fringe

[Jenni Lou]

Originally Posted by Obsessed

Did you get a chance to watch it again? I am still confused abt that scene.

No, I didn't watch it again. But the podcast I listened to were slightly confused as well However, a stroke of luck! They happened to have the director of the episode on that ep of the podcast and he bascially confirms what I thought had happened anyway.

The cosmonaut did indeed come back to life. And the only they could do was to send him to space. I assume because they had no way of ridding him of the "shadow."

As for the latest ep--"August"--I think it is my fave of the entire series. The emotion was so rich and balanced. I love mythology-heavy episodes but I enjoyed this one more because of the emotional implications of it. It was very moving for me.

[Obsessed]

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

No, I didn't watch it again. But the podcast I listened to were slightly confused as well However, a stroke of luck! They happened to have the director of the episode on that ep of the podcast and he bascially confirms what I thought had happened anyway.

The cosmonaut did indeed come back to life. And the only they could do was to send him to space. I assume because they had no way of ridding him of the "shadow."

As for the latest ep--"August"--I think it is my fave of the entire series. The emotion was so rich and balanced. I love mythology-heavy episodes but I enjoyed this one more because of the emotional implications of it. It was very moving for me.

Ahh okay thank you. And I agree "August" was emotional. I cried at the end. Question about the Observer who intervened when Walter and Peter fell in the lake- Peter died, right? And Walter went to an alternate reality to get another Peter. If the original Peter died, why wouldn't the Observer go after the other one, if he was suppose to die- like the Hollis girl? Was Peter that important and that’s why he was left alone or was it just a part of the deal?

[galathea]

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

As for the latest ep--"August"--I think it is my fave of the entire series. The emotion was so rich and balanced. I love mythology-heavy episodes but I enjoyed this one more because of the emotional implications of it. It was very moving for me.

I agree! I think it was one of the strongest episodes of the show. A very quiet character piece, that gave us more insight into the nature of the observers and affected all of the core players differently. I loved Peter's excitement and anxiousness to get some answers, which of course collided with Walter's need to keep secrets from him. Walter was understandably terrified of losing Peter, when the involvement of the observers in the abduction became clear, and I thought John Noble got Walters anxiety across in a very understated way. The end statement that things will get difficult for Olivia now, had a nice ring of doom and makes me look forward to the rest of the season even more. Very solid season so far.

[Jenni Lou]

Originally Posted by Obsessed

Ahh okay thank you. And I agree "August" was emotional. I cried at the end. Question about the Observer who intervened when Walter and Peter fell in the lake- Peter died, right? And Walter went to an alternate reality to get another Peter. If the original Peter died, why wouldn't the Observer go after the other one, if he was suppose to die- like the Hollis girl? Was Peter that important and that’s why he was left alone or was it just a part of the deal?

It's unclear. We just don't know the circumstances of the event and everything I think about it is merely conjecture at the point. ANd I am not sure what it is I think. But I do think that it is significant that Peter asked more then once in this episode why the Observer saved them. Clearly, the writers want us to think about that too.

I cried at the end too. I also think that actress who played Christine was fantastic! What a cutie, too!

Originally Posted by galathea

I thought John Noble got Walters anxiety across in a very understated way.

Isn't he brilliant? I made a connection about his performance this week that somehow eluded me before; he uses a lot of childlike mannerisms. As when he was sitting trying to decode the message, he was kind of hunched over and it reminded me of a six-year-old or something. All that was missing was his tongue jutting out from his lips a bit, heavy with concentration.

[Thomas]

I totally loved the last episode!

I'm so glad Astrid got somethings to do. And I really hope she looks into the "I can't let Peter die again." It's got to come out eventually, and given Astrid's lack of storyline, I think it'd be interesting have her be the one to uncover it.

[Obsessed]

In the "The Bishop Revival"...

Spoiler:

Peter asked his dad how did the he get the DNA to kill the German (or something to that effect). The camera pan to a photo of Walter's grandfather and the same German fellow. What was all that about? I know it was a reveal of some kind but I missed it. And was I the only one that wasn't upset with what Walter did? Its not like he had a choice, right?

[Jenni Lou]

Originally Posted by Obsessed

In the "The Bishop Revival"...

Spoiler:

Peter asked his dad how did the he get the DNA to kill the German (or something to that effect). The camera pan to a photo of Walter's grandfather and the same German fellow. What was all that about? I know it was a reveal of some kind but I missed it. And was I the only one that wasn't upset with what Walter did? Its not like he had a choice, right?

Well, it wasn't so much as a reveal as it was confirmation that the Nazi guy hasn't aged since the photo was taken. Walter had made a comment earlier in the episode after he tested the guy's DNA and said that is was like over 100 yrs old. I suspect that this not-aging thing/immortality will be addressed again at some point. But clearly, this sis something that Walter is hiding, or at least omitting. He always knows more than he lets on. The man keeps a lot of secrets.

I wasn't mad at him either. I understand the horror the other characters had to his action though. Because Walter's reasons for killing him weren't to save lives so much as they were to avenge the man for corrupting his father's research. He didn't have to kill; he just wanted to.

[Obsessed]

I really enjoyed "Jacksonville"- I am curious what you all thought of ending?

[Jenni Lou]

I LOVED the episode.

I am very curious to see where it is going. Clearly, Olivia's knowledge is going to be deal in many respects. As if her relationship with Walter wasn't already strained, now she has this secret. And her burgeoning romance with Peter is only going to be halted by this secret as well. I'm glad it's finally out there though, that someone knows.

[galathea]

I loved the episode as well. I think it was one of the best of the season actually, and I am happy the writers finally returned to the mythology of the show. I think it is rather unfortunate that the show lost momentum for the mytharc by focussing too much on stand-alones this season. The balance between simple MotW and mytharc episodes was pretty uneven and I felt that the show stagnated for a long while in S2 - plotwise as well as characterisation wise. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, but I think their storytelling could have been more concise and energetic this season.

Anyway, Jacksonville was a great episode. I loved the rift between Olivia and Walter, especially. We are so used to the loveable, confused and gentle Walter, that it's easy to brush aside perspective on how cruel and cold he must have been before his mental breakdown - if the extents of his experiments are anything to go by. I am happy the show addressed that. I would really love to have a flashback episode with pre-series Walter. Olivia has been critical of Walter's past experiments before, but experiencing them now, through the eyes of an adult, really brings Walter's cruelty into sharp focus. It will be interesting to see how their relationship develops from here.

I, too, also really love that Walter's secret is finally out and cannot wait to see where they take the story from there. I admit, I am not too excited about a romantic relationship between Peter and Olivia, but I guess her knowledge will put a halt to it anyway, for a while at least.

Does anybody wonder where the new FBI agent went? I mean, they introduced her and set her up as important, mythology wise, and then she just vanished completely from the plot, never to be heard again.

[Jenni Lou]

Originally Posted by galathea

Does anybody wonder where the new FBI agent went? I mean, they introduced her and set her up as important, mythology wise, and then she just vanished completely from the plot, never to be heard again.

It's another one of those uneven aspects from this season.

Spoiler:

Apparently she will be back, according to what I have read.

And I do agree that there has been too many MotW. I feel like there should be a bit of a balance. Perhaps 3 MotW followed by a mytharc episode would be good pattern, pardon the Fringe-y pun.

One of my favorite parts was Olivia reaction to Walter after waking from that treatment. Until that moment I don't think she--or wee--really understood just how incredible creepy his experiments were. To subject children to such an experience is cruel, indeed.

I'm not against P/O romance but mostly because I don't feel like it's something that is going to really happen in any significant way, for at least a time. I also don't think it would ever be anything that would distract from Plots A and B in the show anyway. Like all things, it just depends on how the writers handle it. This just isn't the kind of show that focuses on these kinds of relationships. I also feel like the only real reason it would introduced heavily in this episode is because it's a good way to establish even more conflict in regards to the Peter reveal. It simply heightens the stakes for all the characters, to have them so closely bonded.

But dude, John Noble. I wish the Emmys gave more credence to genre shows. The man is astounding and deserves an Emmy. He has all these cadences and rhythms to his speech, all these little mannerisms. He has created this character, made Walter so deep and rich and real. He does a stellar job!

[galathea]

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

It's another one of those uneven aspects from this season.

Spoiler:

Apparently she will be back, according to what I have read.

Okay then.

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

And I do agree that there has been too many MotW. I feel like there should be a bit of a balance. Perhaps 3 MotW followed by a mytharc episode would be good pattern, pardon the Fringe-y pun.

Yeah, I don't really get why the show is failing in this regard, they managed such a wonderful balance in S1. It just makes no sense plotwise. Ever since Newton was 'resurrected' and then escaped capture there should have been a greater sense of urgency. What did he do all that time? And I was disappointed that some of Olivia's plotlines just fizzled out without any closer inspection, like her heightened hearing sense for example.

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

I'm not against P/O romance but mostly because I don't feel like it's something that is going to really happen in any significant way, for at least a time. I also don't think it would ever be anything that would distract from Plots A and B in the show anyway. Like all things, it just depends on how the writers handle it. This just isn't the kind of show that focuses on these kinds of relationships. I also feel like the only real reason it would introduced heavily in this episode is because it's a good way to establish even more conflict in regards to the Peter reveal. It simply heightens the stakes for all the characters, to have them so closely bonded.

Well, I just never got a romantic read on Peter and Olivia. They developed a closer friendship and deeper understanding for each other over the course of S2, but I never really got the impression that either of them was interested to take it further, despite Walter's teasing remarks, which came out of the blue for me. Not that I can't see them heading in that direction, we had some nice intimate moments between Olivia and Peter, but it looked to me like the show jumped over several steps in developing their relationship.

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

But dude, John Noble. I wish the Emmys gave more credence to genre shows. The man is astounding and deserves an Emmy. He has all these cadences and rhythms to his speech, all these little mannerisms. He has created this character, made Walter so deep and rich and real. He does a stellar job!

John Noble is fabulous. Of course it helps that Walter is such a layered and complex character, so he can play on a lot of nuances. I wished the rest of the characters were anywhere near as well developed as Walter. I have problems with Olivia especially, as she is emotionally unaccessible to me. She's always very distant and emotionally restrained. I guess it's probably a deliberate characterisation, but it doesn't exactly make it easy to relate to her, and with her sister/niece out of the picture we rarely get an opportunity to see her in a more private, relaxed setting.

[Jenni Lou]

Originally Posted by galathea

Yeah, I don't really get why the show is failing in this regard, they managed such a wonderful balance in S1. It just makes no sense plotwise. Ever since Newton was 'resurrected' and then escaped capture there should have been a greater sense of urgency. What did he do all that time? And I was disappointed that some of Olivia's plotlines just fizzled out without any closer inspection, like her heightened hearing sense for example.

I agree. Though there have been some strong standalones, particularly the last one.

I also think that Newton should have been addressed more. IN fact, I totally forgot about him and didn't realize he was responsible for the building shifts in this episode until I watched a video with the showrunners, despite the fact it was mentioned in the episode. Because I heard the name Newton and didn't connect the dots. And that's because it's been far too long since we had a mytharc episode.

Well, I just never got a romantic read on Peter and Olivia. They developed a closer friendship and deeper understanding for each other over the course of S2, but I never really got the impression that either of them was interested to take it further, despite Walter's teasing remarks, which came out of the blue for me. Not that I can't see them heading in that direction, we had some nice intimate moments between Olivia and Peter, but it looked to me like the show jumped over several steps in developing their relationship.

I hear you. I find fans on boith sides of this 'ship. I guess it comes down to how you perceive it. I'll admit however, that I'll attribute a lot of my acceptance of it to Joshua Jackson. He has an indefinable charisma ans charm that lends itself to these sort of relationships. He's not a celeb crush or anything of mine, I've just always found him to have this ability.

John Noble is fabulous. Of course it helps that Walter is such a layered and complex character, so he can play on a lot of nuances. I wished the rest of the characters were anywhere near as well developed as Walter. I have problems with Olivia especially, as she is emotionally unaccessible to me. She's always very distant and emotionally restrained. I guess it's probably a deliberate characterisation, but it doesn't exactly make it easy to relate to her, and with her sister/niece out of the picture we rarely get an opportunity to see her in a more private, relaxed setting.

So true. She has a coldness about her. I do also think it is just part of the characterization. And it's no secret that her sister and niece were brought in specifically to address this issue. Why they are gone now, I have no idea. I also think that developing a potential P/O romance is a way for the writers to allow Olivia to be more vunerable and open up.

That said, I do like Anna Torv. I like the stiffness she brings to the role which i think is apt to the character. But we need to see some moments from her that are outside her work.

[BlasterBoy]

I just want to quickly say that I absolutely adored "Jacksonville". Absolutely one of the best episodes of the series; brilliant stuff

But I wanna address some of the points against this season. Personally, I think this season is really good. Some faults, like the lack of continuing storylines (such as Newton; and Olivia's hearing, and where the hell is ZFT?), not enough Massive Dynamic, and stuff like that. But personally, I think there's been a fine number of mytharc episodes. Mytharc episodes this year: 2.01, 2.04, 2.08, 2.10, 2.14. That's about one every three or four episodes, like Galathea suggested. I think they're doing fine with that (although I could always use more mytharc episodes). I feel like their standalones this year don't have enough continuity, as opposed to last year. "Johari Window" was a great standalone, very neat story, some great character moments, but there's NO mention of 2.10 or Newton or anything, which is unfortunate. "Dream Logic" had no mention of Charlie's death or other revelations in 2.04, etc. These things are the things that are what's bringing the season down, for me.

Which is why my advice for "Fringe" writers is to do what "Alias" did and have some good cliffhangers. Cliffhangers MAKE you confront the issues at hand. If these mytharc episodes end in cliffhangers, the following episodes have to deal with the mytharc and these characters' situations. "Jacksonville" ended with a cliffhanger so we know that the next episode has to deal with these ongoing storylines. I wanna see that more often.

Promo for 2.15:

Spoiler:

2.15 looks AMAZING and is entitled "Peter" and is most obviously a mythology episode with flashbacks; I cannot frickin' wait. Glad to see that.

[Jenni Lou]

Originally Posted by BlasterBoy

Which is why my advice for "Fringe" writers is to do what "Alias" did and have some good cliffhangers. Cliffhangers MAKE you confront the issues at hand. If these mytharc episodes end in cliffhangers, the following episodes have to deal with the mytharc and these characters' situations. "Jacksonville" ended with a cliffhanger so we know that the next episode has to deal with these ongoing storylines. I wanna see that more often.

Good point. Though LAias was pretty heavily serialized in the respect that every episode was an advancement of the ongoing story. Each mission has something do with the objectives of the various characters. Fringe doesn't have that. And I get that they can't always be mytharc related, but like you mention, some acknowledgment of the ongoing mythology by the characters would be nice. Like a moment or two when they step outside the standalone story and discuss something about the mythology. As it stands now, it's as if it doesn't even exist while they are investigating these smaller matters.

I so really like season two though. It's totally one of my favorite series on air right now. And I hope that it gets ts third season. I think the ratings are pretty good considering the ridiculous competition for the timeslot and I hope FOX acknowledges that.

[Obsessed]

Just to clarify- how did the original Peter die? Was it from a rare bird flu?

[Jenni Lou]

I thought he drowned in that lake where Jones went to open the door to the other side in S1 finale.

[Obsessed]

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

I thought he drowned in that lake where Jones went to open the door to the other side in S1 finale.

Yeah I'm confused now because Walter mentioned Peter almost dying of a rare bird flu (he brought this up a few times) yet Peter doesn't remember. I need to rewatch the finale again.

Also- I can't remember but did they ever explain the whereabouts of Walter's wife? Did she die?

I was thinking about how Peter is from the alternate reality- I would think he has the same DNA as the one that died. So in a sense, he is Walter's son, right?

In 1.08 The Equation when Walter went back to the hosptial, he saw himself (two or three times). At first I thought it was a manifestion of his guilt re: Peter and the experiements (plus all of that looney stuff) but what if it was the Walter from the other reality?

I can't believe we have to wait about a month to watch the next episode. I'm trying so hard not to read the spoilers!

[Jenni Lou]

I'll admit to some confusion as well. I have watched the majority of episodes only once though, so surely, lots of things have gone by me. I listen to a great fan podcast though, and that keeps me pretty tuned into the things I miss.

I'm not sure about his wife/Peter's mother. But I sort of have this feeling we might meet the alt. version of her later. I've got nothing to base that on though.

Yeah, I would think they are exact copies of one another. Same DNA and all that. So yeah, he is still kind of son in a way. It's sort of weird to think about. I mean, I think Peter is totally Walter's son, regardless of him being from "over there," however, he still doesn't belong to him. I guess it's more of a morality issue than anything else.

I really love the show too, Beth. I so don't want to wait as long as we have to. On the plus side, at least then it is EIGHT straight weeks of new eps! I actually don't have a problem with being spoiled for the show. But there's not actually a lot of spoilers out there so it isn't even an issue. I actually find it a bit difficult to find even episode stills, and y'all know me....the avid pic collector! I can find most anything I want!

[Obsessed]

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

Yeah, I would think they are exact copies of one another. Same DNA and all that. So yeah, he is still kind of son in a way. It's sort of weird to think about. I mean, I think Peter is totally Walter's son, regardless of him being from "over there," however, he still doesn't belong to him. I guess it's more of a morality issue than anything else.

That's what bugs me- that Peter doesn't belong to Walter. I love 'em together. It makes it so sad because Walter ignored him most of his life and now after all these years they have this new father/son relationship. I don't want Peter to find out.

Originally Posted by Jenni Lou

I really love the show too, Beth. I so don't want to wait as long as we have to. On the plus side, at least then it is EIGHT straight weeks of new eps! I actually don't have a problem with being spoiled for the show. But there's not actually a lot of spoilers out there so it isn't even an issue. I actually find it a bit difficult to find even episode stills, and y'all know me....the avid pic collector! I can find most anything I want!

Oh I can't be spoiled! The way Olivia looked at Peter in "Jacksonville" like that- I got chills. Before they turned to his face, I then realized she was seeing a glimmer.

Okay so I looked back at the transcript for "August"- Walter said he and Peter were in a car crash when Peter was a kid. The Observer intervened and saved them. Remember, at the end Walter told another Observer he could make the girl he's been trying to save important- meaning she won't die.

So I think the original Peter died of this rare bird flu that Walter mentioned a couple of times throughout the first Season. In the finale- Walter told Peter that when he "almost died" he took up a coin collection but Peter doesn't rememeber. I think Peter took up the coin collection after he was kidnapped from the alternate reality. That's my theory.