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Thread: Buffy v's Vampire Diaries

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    Default Buffy v's Vampire Diaries

    https://screenrant.com/vampire-diari...-better-worse/

    I've never watched Vampire Diaries, but I cannot believe it could possibly be better than Buffy in any way What do you think?


    5 Things The Vampire Diaries Did Better Than Buffy (& 5 Buffy Did Better)
    BY BEN PETTITT – ON NOV 02, 2019 IN LISTS

    When Buffy The Vampire Slayer first aired in 1997, it took television by storm. It was witty and entertaining, and succeeded in bringing back science fiction to the early 21st century. It also cleared the way for other similar shows like The Vampire Diaries, which went on to become a massive hit in its own right.

    Both shows featured a small town with a vampire infestation and followed a female protagonist as she battled against the forces of darkness. However, there were still some rather large differences between the two dramas, with each putting their own unique spin on the supernatural. Here are 5 things The Vampire Diaries did better (and 5 that Buffy excelled at).

    10 THE VAMPIRE DIARIES - MORE COMPLEX VAMPIRES

    Firstly, this isn't to say that Buffy's take on vampires was dull. Some of the most interesting characters from that show were vampires, for example, Angel and Spike. However, these were a minority and most vampires served as a monster of the week for the Slayer to defeat with relative ease.

    In the case of The Vampire Diaries, Damon and Stefan Salvatore shared the spotlight with the show's original lead, Elena Gilbert. The show focused on the two vampire brothers an awful lot because the characters were so compelling. As if they weren't enough, the series introduced the Original vampires in the third season, fuelling even more drama.

    9 BUFFY - LGBTQ+ CHARACTERS

    The LGBTQ+ community is where The Vampire Diaries fails. Whereas its equally popular spinoff The Originals features a gay woman in its main cast, The Vampire Diaries fails to give any LGBTQ character much chance to shine. For a show where almost every person gets off with another, this is more than a little disappointing.

    Buffy, on the other hand, portrayed gay relationships really well, which was especially gratifying considering when it first aired. In the fourth season, Willow began to develop feelings for Tara, a fellow witch. The two soon became involved, resulting in one of Buffy's best relationships for almost 3 seasons.

    8 THE VAMPIRE DIARIES - BETTER SPINOFFS

    After its third season, Buffy was soon joined by its first official spinoff focusing on Buffy's vampire ex, Angel. Angel was fairly similar to its sister show and it proved to be just as popular. It allowed Angel and Cordelia to develop further as characters but it did feel a bit like Buffy 2.0.

    The Vampire Diaries also paved the way for spinoffs, managing to spawn The Originals and Legacies. The former focused on the Big Bads from Season 3 of its parent show, the Mikaelson family. This gave the show a unique perspective, in that the protagonists were not always fighting on the right side. It also provided further depth for Klaus and Elijah in particular.

    7 BUFFY - EVIL VAMPIRES

    Considering it even has vampires in its name, The Vampire Diaries doesn't portray many outright evil vamps. Sure, Damon nailed being the main villain initially, but he soon became more of an antihero due to his infatuation with Elena. The series produced some great villains but none were properly bad.

    In contrast, Buffy wasn't going to shy away from making vampires absolutely terrifying to watch. As well as the surprisingly okay vampire prosthetics, the show also introduced the audience to the most evil vampire of all: Angelus. Angelus was Angel's soulless alter ego, who had zero qualms about killing the people Buffy loved just to watch her suffer.

    6 THE VAMPIRE DIARIES - DOPPELGÄNGERS

    Admittedly, Buffy actually handled the concept of doppelgängers fairly successfully in its third season. The first time doppelgängers were introduced was in "The Wish" which involved an alternate reality. The second time was when Willow's alternate vampire ego arrived in her reality and wreaked havoc.

    However, Buffy seemed to only use doppelgängers as a handy plot device, whereas The Vampire Diaries used them to sustain a series-long arc. Additionally, while seeing an evil Willow was fun, watching Katherine, Elena's doppelgänger, was quite simply a privilege and not easily forgettable.

    5 BUFFY - A BIGGER VARIETY OF THE SUPERNATURAL

    In all fairness, The Vampire Diaries covered impressive ground when it came to the supernatural, featuring, vampires, werewolves, witches and hybrids aplenty. However, all the main storylines revolved primarily around those four species, with other monsters and creatures only getting an occasional look in.

    Since Buffy's format was more of a monster-of-the-week type, it allowed for literally hundreds of supernatural entities to have their chance to shine. Half of the main cast was also supernatural including a Slayer, a vampire, a witch, a vengeance demon and a mystical key in human form.

    4 THE VAMPIRE DIARIES - CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

    Buffy was one of the most interesting and popular shows on TV for almost seven years and it did produce some unforgettable characters. Willow's evolution from a shy and awkward student into a confident and badass witch was a brilliant case of character development. However, other characters fared less well, with Cordelia remaining shallow and annoying until her transition on to Angel.

    On the other hand, Caroline Forbes was seemingly established as another Cordelia-esque 'it' girl in The Vampire Diaries, right up until she was killed and turned into a vampire in the Season 2 premiere. Her character development was done perfectly and she remains one of the most beloved characters from the show.

    3 BUFFY - BETTER BIG BADS

    One of the best things about Buffy was its ability to produce entertaining antagonists for each season. Every single villain had strong and unique motivations and each presented a new challenge for the Slayer. Sometimes, the Big Bad would even end up being a close ally, which just raised the stakes even higher.

    The Vampire Diaries also had its share of fascinating villains, with Katherine and the Mikaelsons being the most well-received. However, there were also quite a lot of lame antagonists as well, like the Travellers or Rayna Cruz. These guys were either boring or just plain forgettable.

    2 THE VAMPIRE DIARIES - BETTER SHOCK VALUE

    Buffy was no stranger to producing some amazingly shocking twists during its run. No one will ever forget the time when Angel lost his soul, or when Warren shot and killed Tara. However, the show generally preferred story development and humor over shocking its viewers, which was absolutely fine and worked well for the show.

    The Vampire Diaries, though, was a more mature series and seemed to delight in presenting twist after twist. The best thing about this was that the shocks happened fairly frequently and yet most of the time, one would never see them coming. The moment where Katherine sliced off John's fingers was startling and has become utterly iconic.

    1 BUFFY - A MORE RELATABLE PROTAGONIST

    Elena Gilbert was extremely popular due to her likability and her compassion for others. She was the heart of The Vampire Diaries for 6 seasons and even guest-starred in the series finale. However, she was annoying at times and her constant attempts to martyr herself for her friends did get pretty tiresome.

    While Buffy also sacrificed herself (twice, actually), she always appeared to be much more relatable. As well as battling monsters from the Hellmouth every week, she also worried about normal things like guys, homework and divorced parents. She was the protagonist that literally everyone could relate to, whereas Elena just felt a bit too out of reach.

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    Imo the writing for Vampire diaries is just incredibly weak. Embarrassingly so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Imo the writing for Vampire diaries is just incredibly weak. Embarrassingly so.
    i have to go with you, Silver1

    when i was still watching a great deal of
    television, i tried Vampire Diaries, made
    it through a season, then, well, just couldn't—

    i think i only lasted a full season because i did not
    have premium cable and, well, just
    desperately needed something to watch—

    and it was the writing, everything its lack spawned...


    Last edited by StateOfSiege97; 05-11-19 at 02:22 PM.

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    I tried watching Vampire Diaries because the cast is super attractive but I just couldn't get into it, it was just so cringe and I know that it supposedly gets better™ and that the beginning of the series is rough and all that, but still, I can't, I'm sorry, maybe in the future. That said, I admire the sheer resilience and potency of this franchise. The lead actress decides to leave? No problem, let's make 3(?) more seasons. And a spin-off. And a spin-off of a spin-off.

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    TVD holds up well, even favorably in some ways, for about three seasons... after the third season ended with just about the absolute worst plot choice they could have ever made, it was all downhill.

    I think TVD has a better vampire mythology by far - their power set, even the creation process. Origin... eh, well "Buffy" never got into an actual vampire origin story until the comics (Season 10? 11? can tell how memorable it was) and it wasn't really worth waiting for. TVD's vampire origin story is kinda demystifying but it's at least concise and coherent.

    I think the two leads are of equal caliber as actors. Probably sacrilege here but Nina Dobrev did a damn good job and had a Tatiana Maslany-like burden of multiple characters to manage as well.

    It's funny to me as well how the Salvatores - who objectively predate Angel and Spike in vampire fiction - are accused as being ripoffs of them rather than the much more likely vice versa.

    Buffy's universe is more expandable and interesting by engaging a broader variety of supernatural monsters without going full-tilt "Charmed" madness either. But I don't know that there's any particular classic monster type that Buffy designed better than TVD did. I guess witches? Certainly not werewolves and certainly not vampires.

    - - - Updated - - -

    TVD holds up well, even favorably in some ways, for about three seasons... after the third season ended with just about the absolute worst plot choice they could have ever made, it was all downhill.

    I think TVD has a better vampire mythology by far - their power set, even the creation process. Origin... eh, well "Buffy" never got into an actual vampire origin story until the comics (Season 10? 11? can tell how memorable it was) and it wasn't really worth waiting for. TVD's vampire origin story is kinda demystifying but it's at least concise and coherent.

    I think the two leads are of equal caliber as actors. Probably sacrilege here but Nina Dobrev did a damn good job and had a Tatiana Maslany-like burden of multiple characters to manage as well.

    It's funny to me as well how the Salvatores - who objectively predate Angel and Spike in vampire fiction - are accused as being ripoffs of them rather than the much more likely vice versa.

    Buffy's universe is more expandable and interesting by engaging a broader variety of supernatural monsters without going full-tilt "Charmed" madness either. But I don't know that there's any particular classic monster type that Buffy designed better than TVD did. I guess witches? Certainly not werewolves and certainly not vampires.

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    Vampire Diaries is what I imagine the general audience thinks Buffy is like. Sad really. It's bloody streets ahead on all fronts. Do you think folks will remember and be celebrating that show in 20 years time? I don't.

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    KingofCretins

    I think the two leads are of equal caliber as actors. Probably sacrilege here but Nina Dobrev did a damn good job and had a Tatiana Maslany-like burden of multiple characters to manage as well.
    I could not disagree more. Show me a single instance when Elena did anything as gut wrenching and riveting as The Body. Show me a season arc where Elena fight her way out of depression, unable to be rescued, making dark decisions to punish herself and Spike. Elena's arc is simply the damsel in distress who lectures people who are bad. I have no idea why she is so special - why everyone is constantly risking life and limb to drag her out of situations that she should have been smart enough not to get into. She lectures like season 7 Buffy, but she has the common sense of Andrew. Nina did not have anything close to the challenges of SMG. Her role was to be the bone between to dogs.

    Even her evil doppleganger (doppleganger? puhlease) lacks clear motivation beyond jealousy and lust for power. She exists as a plot device to cause trouble. Then Elena decides to get vamped and joins the mass murder club, but there's no problem there. No recriminations, no consequences, no attempt at redemption. Being evil is a thing - murder is waved away on the basis the vampire had turned off their emotion .. But isn't turning off your emotions willingly deciding to become a mass murderer?

    It's funny to me as well how the Salvatores - who objectively predate Angel and Spike in vampire fiction - are accused as being ripoffs of them rather than the much more likely vice versa.
    The book existed before Buffy, but the portrayal of the brothers is a direct rip off. The television portrayal is a direct ripoff to try and entice Buffy fans to watch. There are actually lines and scenes, complete story arcs and events stolen from BTVS and Angel. The exhausting love triangle is a ripoff of BTVS - but with a heroine unable to make her own decisions and rescue herself it falls flat. Elena isn't an equal, she is a plot device to continue the teen angst romance trope.

    https://www.mic.com/articles/170835/...-the-same-plot Good article here which explains it better than I am.


    Buffy's universe is more expandable and interesting by engaging a broader variety of supernatural monsters without going full-tilt "Charmed" madness either. But I don't know that there's any particular classic monster type that Buffy designed better than TVD did. I guess witches? Certainly not werewolves and certainly not vampires.
    The TVD did have better werewolves. But characters are limited because the universe has no center - no theme. Evil is fine - it's just another choice. A vampire can turn off emotions but the morality of that choice is never explored. Deaths are pretty much waved away on the basis that the killer was evil or upset in some way. All is forgiven.

    The consequences for the Salvatore boys are generally losing the love of Elena temporarily until she needs to be rescued again. Rinse - lather - repeat.

    When Elena becomes an evil vampire and a murderer because her brother is killed (or not) ,she turns off her feelings and starts killing. A character like that is a big bad - the mayor losing Faith. Willow lost Tara turned off her emotions - she killed Warren and tried to destroy the world, and there were serious consequences. Murder matters - it corrupts. See Faith and her arc.

    TVD is teen romance, angst, and false conflict - Gossip Girls with a supernatural twist. I stopped watching because I was tired of watching characters doing stupid things for reasons I didn't care about. And while the characters are attractive, they have so substance. I found I couldn't care about anything that happened to them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Vampire Diaries is what I imagine the general audience thinks Buffy is like. Sad really. It's bloody streets ahead on all fronts. Do you think folks will remember and be celebrating that show in 20 years time? I don't.
    I gave it another try but Elena's constant dumb decisions which leads to everyone having to rescue her just finally made me give up. The Netflix spin off has Alexise Denisof joining the cast next season. I will try to make it through that one - or at least a few episodes.
    Last edited by bespangled; 06-11-19 at 01:03 AM.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bespangled View Post
    KingofCretins

    I could not disagree more. Show me a single instance when Elena did anything as gut wrenching and riveting as The Body. Show me a season arc where Elena fight her way out of depression, unable to be rescued, making dark decisions to punish herself and Spike.
    You should probably consider that your points constitute a writing critique and not an acting critique. Show me the most emotionally harrowing plots for Elena that they actually wrote into the show on which the actor failed to deliver - there'd be your acting complaint. While it's past the S3 threshold that I'd consider the boundary for which the show stopped being "good", I'd put the high-velocity Kubler-Ross pace at which she experiences
    Spoiler:
    Jeremy's death
    on the reel.

    Being evil is a thing - murder is waved away on the basis the vampire had turned off their emotion .. But isn't turning off your emotions willingly deciding to become a mass murderer?
    Again, how is this a comment on the acting? This is a comment on the show's central ethos, sure, and it's world-building definitely, but how does it remit to the work done by the cast?

    The book existed before Buffy, but the portrayal of the brothers is a direct rip off.
    If they were materially different than written in said book, perhaps.

    The TVD did have better werewolves. But characters are limited because the universe has no center - no theme. Evil is fine - it's just another choice. A vampire can turn off emotions but the morality of that choice is never explored. Deaths are pretty much waved away on the basis that the killer was evil or upset in some way. All is forgiven.
    Their vampires, as mythological constructs, are just better. They didn't saddle themselves with the Buffyverse's doubletalk and fence-sitting about whether or not a vampire metaphysically "is" the same being as the living human precisely because they were working in a world where they didn't need the protagonist to be morally licensed to summarily and indiscriminately kill vampires.

    These shows are not of the same genre, so comparisons about the value of life and the effects of murder are not entirely fair - the protagonists of "Buffy" are all supposed to be good guys, basically. They even get referred to as "Whitehats" in and out of 'verse at times. So reflecting on the moral significance of doing awful things is more within BtVS' idiom than it is TVD's, which is variously a teen soap and a vampire noir of sorts with no clean moral actors at all, just the people you are going to cheer for to get their way amongst the competing self-interested parties. Notice, they don't do "saving the world" in TVD, they never couch the significance of, say, stopping Klaus from breaking his curse in "or the world will be overrun with vampire hybrids"; they want to stop it to save their own asses and the asses of the specific affected people they care about. That's a much different show than "Buffy" from the ground up.

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    Re the rip off: I have neither read the books (which predate Buffy) nor watched the show. But I have been told (elsewhere) that the show is very different from the books and therefore Buffy wasn’t a rip off of Vampire Diaries. I would like to ask those who have read the books if that is accurate or not.

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    KingofCretins

    These shows are not of the same genre, so comparisons about the value of life and the effects of murder are not entirely fair - the protagonists of "Buffy" are all supposed to be good guys, basically. They even get referred to as "Whitehats" in and out of 'verse at times. So reflecting on the moral significance of doing awful things is more within BtVS' idiom than it is TVD's, which is variously a teen soap and a vampire noir of sorts with no clean moral actors at all, just the people you are going to cheer for to get their way amongst the competing self-interested parties. Notice, they don't do "saving the world" in TVD, they never couch the significance of, say, stopping Klaus from breaking his curse in "or the world will be overrun with vampire hybrids"; they want to stop it to save their own asses and the asses of the specific affected people they care about. That's a much different show than "Buffy" from the ground up.
    What I am getting from most of this is that the actors could be just as good as the actors on BTVS if the writers had given them the same kind of great story. I have no reason to think they would be as good. I watched TVD and found the acting to be pretty decent but nothing special.

    However, the idea that the protagonists of "Buffy" are all supposed to be good guys is laughable. Part of the story for each of them is struggling with their own inner darkness. I agree that TVD is simply a teen romance soap opera.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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