Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Never Seen Before

  1. #1
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,755
    Thanks
    10,153
    Thanked 8,870 Times in 4,268 Posts

    Default Never Seen Before

    I thought I'd start a thread about things that happen on Buffy that you haven't seen before, or only seen done once or twice on tv.

    I know the story of a woman falling in love with her attempted rapist was a story line on an American soap, but I've never seen it, so I still think the Buffy/Spike love story is pretty rare in story telling.

    Are there other things that are unique (or almost unique) to Buffy that you've not seen before or since?

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    StateOfSiege97 (20-08-19)

  3. #2
    Scooby Gang SpuffyGlitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    706
    Thanks
    5,823
    Thanked 2,188 Times in 823 Posts

    Default

    I don't see it as a woman falling in love with her attempted rapist, though— the acquisition of the soul to me marked the distinction between soulless Spike and a different "kind of man", a distinction even Robin Wood noted (as did Buffy): "I don't want to kill you Spike. I want to kill the monster who killed my mother."

    There were so many pioneering things on Buffy, I'll have to think more before I can list them!
    .
    buffylover made this stunning banner

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SpuffyGlitz For This Useful Post:

    Silver1 (20-08-19),StateOfSiege97 (20-08-19),Stoney (20-08-19)

  5. #3
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    8,356
    Thanks
    11,594
    Thanked 13,808 Times in 5,721 Posts

    Default

    I don't think they did that tbh as the mythology of the soul in verse draws a distinct line between who Spike was unsouled and who he became after that. The difference is meaningful and is definitely a distinction that Buffy felt. There's continuity for sure, it is what makes the exploration of the vamps across their different selves so fantastic, but there is an important line there too. The way they used the mythology of the soul in the verse was actually something I hadn't seen before and how it enabled them to explore the characters in these connected yet distinct versions that all had character cohesion. I saw TVD after BtVS and think the way they do the turning off humanity is similar. It might be that this has become pretty standard and it is just that I don't watch many shows of course.

    EDIT: Sorry I've just seen SpuffyGlitz basically posted the same thing, I hadn't see that when I replied.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    SpuffyGlitz (20-08-19),StateOfSiege97 (20-08-19)

  7. #4
    Scooby Gang
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    545
    Thanks
    829
    Thanked 357 Times in 165 Posts

    Default

    Well, the soap opera story-line (Luke and Laura) was more of a "man and woman realize that what was considered 'romantic' decades ago would now be considered 'actual rape' using today's standards", so...

    Actually, my knowledge of pop cultural "epic romances" (or virtually all romances, really), especially since Luke and Laura, is pretty much between slim and none. Are there any more that would be considered closer to Luke and Laura than Spike and Buffy in terms of actual versus attempted rape?

  8. #5
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    8,356
    Thanks
    11,594
    Thanked 13,808 Times in 5,721 Posts

    Default

    I'm trying to remember if I'd ever seen a show represent challenges of adolescence and growing up through the plots and metaphors like Buffy did. I can't think of one that did it similarly at the moment (again this could just be flashing my social hermit credentials loudly again! ).

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    StateOfSiege97 (20-08-19)

  10. #6
    Scooby Gang SpuffyGlitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    706
    Thanks
    5,823
    Thanked 2,188 Times in 823 Posts

    Default

    Female heroism is explored in a way that's unique to Buffy— we have a hero who's not just an action hero (and transcends the "pin up" or loose definitions of the "femme fatale"), who ponders questions of existence (and philosophic matters, to my mind, has mostly been a male preserve). I don't think I've ever seen female heroism explored the way it was on Buffy, at least not on TV.
    .
    buffylover made this stunning banner

  11. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to SpuffyGlitz For This Useful Post:

    MikeB (21-08-19),Priceless (20-08-19),StateOfSiege97 (20-08-19),Stoney (20-08-19),thenewbuzwuzz (22-08-19)

  12. #7
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,873
    Thanks
    4,904
    Thanked 5,002 Times in 2,190 Posts

    Default

    TBH, I watched BtVS (and Angel) when it first aired and although I enjoyed it and it was "must watch" TV, it never struck me as radically new in its conception. In fact, I don't recall watching S7 (though the lads tell me I did. I certainly didn't recall Chosen when I rewatched it 20 years later). I googled and came up with this: https://tv.avclub.com/a-slayer-s-lin...ffy-1798258898

    Perhaps you need to widen the scope - particularly since the first manifestation of Buffy was a film - not a TV series? What about X-files (did they do MotW?) and Twilight Zone? (IDK - I can't remember ). From Wiki: "creator Joss Whedon described his show as "a cross between The X-Files and My So-Called Life".

    As regards the AR (soul notwithstanding): https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/09...-with-rapists/

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    MikeB (21-08-19),Priceless (20-08-19)

  14. #8
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,702
    Thanks
    4,149
    Thanked 4,084 Times in 1,698 Posts

    Default

    Priceless
    I know the story of a woman falling in love with her attempted rapist was a story line on an American soap, but I've never seen it, so I still think the Buffy/Spike love story is pretty rare in story telling.
    There is a German novel that's considered to be a classic with that trope. Geez luise I am getting old. I can't remember by whom or what it's called.

    ETA: Okay, my brain is dead but thank god for Google. It's Die Marquise von O by Heinrich Kleist.

    flow
    Last edited by flow; 20-08-19 at 05:43 PM.
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  15. #9
    Bronze Party-Goer StateOfSiege97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Oakland
    Posts
    122
    Thanks
    1,265
    Thanked 740 Times in 255 Posts

    Default

    Aside from points that others have made:

    I do not think that any tv show delved into the workings of
    depression in all its complexities the way BtVS did in S6—

    Other shows up that point, such as Party of Five, had a few
    episodes, but they resolved the issue quickly—only BtVS drew
    the audience into the temporalities—and the erasure of all temporality—
    that depression imposes, drew the audience into the duration
    of its affective force—

    To do this on television, for an entire series, was brave and terribly
    risky, a risk that continues to mark fandom in the dislike of S6 that
    striates its ranks...

    Perhaps other tv shows have done something since; I cannot say, since
    I have not watched much for quite a while, but the only work I know
    that gives a fuller, more densely catastrophic experience of depression
    is Lars von Triers' utterly perfect film Melancholia


    Last edited by StateOfSiege97; 21-08-19 at 07:21 AM.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to StateOfSiege97 For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (20-08-19),SpuffyGlitz (20-08-19),Stoney (20-08-19)

  17. #10
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,873
    Thanks
    4,904
    Thanked 5,002 Times in 2,190 Posts

    Default

    If we're talking "storytelling", then there's this for the AR (Soul caveat applies TBH, I nearly mentioned Tess above). https://www.bustle.com/articles/1637...e-rape-culture

  18. #11
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1,124
    Thanks
    1,407
    Thanked 1,971 Times in 760 Posts

    Default

    Willow and Tara everything - kisses and gay love, gay girls being foster parents etc.

  19. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to a thing of evil For This Useful Post:

    MikeB (21-08-19),Priceless (20-08-19),SpuffyGlitz (20-08-19),StateOfSiege97 (20-08-19),Stoney (20-08-19)

  20. #12
    Bronze Party-Goer
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    157
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 290 Times in 118 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    Priceless

    There is a German novel that's considered to be a classic with that trope. Geez luise I am getting old. I can't remember by whom or what it's called.

    ETA: Okay, my brain is dead but thank god for Google. It's Die Marquise von O by Heinrich Kleist.

    flow
    I'm pretty sure one of Cervantes short stories had similar storyline. I think it's "La fuerza de la sangre", but I'm too lazy to check. Anyway, it's really not very original plot in any sense and I bet there are at least thousand of crappy love novels with that story.

  21. #13
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,755
    Thanks
    10,153
    Thanked 8,870 Times in 4,268 Posts

    Default

    As regards the AR (soul notwithstanding): https://everydayfeminism.com/2016/09...-with-rapists/
    That is a great list, and I'd actually thought of Joan and her husband. But I don't think she was ever in love with him throughout their relationship, so not sure it counts.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't really count literature, because everything has been done in the written word. The Greeks did everything before the rest of the world even thought of it (don't come at me with historical facts, it's a throwaway line to make a point ) I want to specifically talk about television because that's the medium most of us consume the most of.

    Maybe I was a bit too blunt with my opening, 'woman falls in love with her rapist' but I do think it boils it down to basics.

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (21-08-19)

  23. #14
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,528
    Thanks
    3,444
    Thanked 609 Times in 360 Posts

    Default

    All caught up.

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.





    * Buffy was in love with Spike in BtVS S6.


    * BtVS essentially started the very serialized storytelling in a nighttime TV series. BtVS essentially started the 'Big Bad' thing. BtVS started the 'normal' homosexual couple thing.

    For better or worse, BtVS essentially started the whole 'shipping thing. Buffy/Angel vs. Buffy/Spike began in "School Hard" (B 4.03). There later was also Willow/Oz vs. Willow/Tara.

    BtVS started the 'prestige TV series given an entire network reputability and press and massive free media.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to MikeB For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (21-08-19)

  25. #15
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,702
    Thanks
    4,149
    Thanked 4,084 Times in 1,698 Posts

    Default

    Kirk and Spock were already a ship before Buffy was even born.

    Or are you talking about shipper wars? I don’t know if the Buffyverse fandom invented those but surely it’s nothing the writer intended or liked.

    flow
    Last edited by flow; 21-08-19 at 02:28 PM.
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  26. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    BtVS fan (21-08-19),thenewbuzwuzz (22-08-19)

  27. #16
    Scooby Gang
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    464
    Thanks
    525
    Thanked 522 Times in 274 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    All caught up.

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.





    * Buffy was in love with Spike in BtVS S6.


    * BtVS essentially started the very serialized storytelling in a nighttime TV series. BtVS essentially started the 'Big Bad' thing. BtVS started the 'normal' homosexual couple thing.

    For better or worse, BtVS essentially started the whole 'shipping thing. Buffy/Angel vs. Buffy/Spike began in "School Hard" (B 4.03). There later was also Willow/Oz vs. Willow/Tara.

    BtVS started the 'prestige TV series given an entire network reputability and press and massive free media.

    Both Babylon 5 and Deep Space Nine were doing serialized TV before BtVS
    Last edited by BtVS fan; 21-08-19 at 07:56 PM.

  28. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BtVS fan For This Useful Post:

    Skippcomet (26-08-19),thenewbuzwuzz (22-08-19)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •