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Thread: Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 10 Storylines That Have Aged Poorly

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    Default Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 10 Storylines That Have Aged Poorly

    Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 10 Storylines That Have Aged Poorly

    I have problems with the Spuffy part of this article as well as Xander dreaming about joining Tara and Willow, Spuffy is meant to be problematic in S6 while S7 was the healing season, and Xander dreaming about Tillow is true to life and as long as it's not said out loud to Willow and Tara, there's nothing wrong with it. Thoughts and dreams can't be controlled and they are our own when they are private.

    I'm watching Mad Men at the moment. Anyone who feels BtVS is offensive would probably commit suicide if they watched Mad Men - and I don't mind the sexism and racism in Mad Men because it's a period drama set in the 60s, I'd rather watch how things were really like in the 60s than a sugared version of it.
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    Well number 1's already annoyed me. Even in the 90's a mother not believing her daughter was seen as very poor, it's not aged badly, it was always bad! That's the whole point of the story, to show how bad it is that a mother would side with her boyfriend rather than her child. It should also be mentioned that Ted's baked products were drugged. The article doesn't mention that at all.

    Cordy's cattiness and internalised misogyny were, once again, the whole point of Cordy. The audience disliked her for it, as they were meant to. The audience were also meant to see that Cordy is the way she is because this is a society that makes women compete against other women for men's attention. Cordy's character feels that her only validation is in how she looks and how men respond to that. I honestly think the author of this article is an idiot.

    They criticise Buffy for mocking Darla's face . . . she's apparently being cruel and bringing down Darla's self-esteem OK, there are a couple of things on that list that are true, Kendra being the biggest one. But nearly everything else is absolute rubbish written by someone who doesn't understand the show and seems to think the 1990's were the 1950's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 10 Storylines That Have Aged Poorly

    I have problems with the Spuffy part of this article as well as Xander dreaming about joining Tara and Willow, Spuffy is meant to be problematic in S6 while S7 was the healing season, and Xander dreaming about Tillow is true to life and as long as it's not said out loud to Willow and Tara, there's nothing wrong with it. Thoughts and dreams can't be controlled and they are our own when they are private.

    I'm watching Mad Men at the moment. Anyone who feels BtVS is offensive would probably commit suicide if they watched Mad Men - and I don't mind the sexism and racism in Mad Men because it's a period drama set in the 60s, I'd rather watch how things were really like in the 60s than a sugared version of it.
    The first thing I thought when I read yours and Priceless' post is "I bet it's a Screen Rant article". I feel like I don't want to give them more clicks, so I had to copy paste the address to a notepad to see what site it is, and of course it's Screen Rant. They are generally terrible, full of poorly researched articles (which often get basic facts wrong, the kind of that you could pick up by paying attention while watching, or rewatching the episode) and clickbait titles.
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    Oh FFS. I can't even be bothered to argue against such sanctimonious, superficial, click-bait drivel.

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    Urgh I hated that article

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Cordy's cattiness and internalised misogyny were, once again, the whole point of Cordy.
    When It comes to internalised misogyny, I think all BtVS characters were victims of it and I don't think it was intentional. In the high school years more so than the later years.
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    Buffy and Spike's relationship has been glorified as a love affair for the ages, when it's actually a toxic nightmare. Later seasons find Spike transforming from vicious mercenary to the pervert next door, stealing Buffy's panties and even commissioning the horrific Buffybot. Eventually, real Buffy succumbs to Spike and they carry on a sexual relationship brimming with mutual emotional abuse. This all culminates in the most unnecessary, disturbing moment of the show in which Spike tries to rape Buffy. Next season, he's back with the Scoobies as if nothing ever happened. In the series finale, Buffy even tells Spike she loves him. Not that we're Team Angel, but given the evidence, nobody should be Team Spike.
    This is so on point. Spuffy really did age extremely poorly, it's just so dated and corny. I feel like a lot of older shippers don't quite get it - it's always funny on social media or whatever when young people rip into the pairing and people twice (or thrice!) their age start to spew molten salt.

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    Young people rip into everything these days. Nothing is sacred for the truly ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    This is so on point. Spuffy really did age extremely poorly, it's just so dated and corny. I feel like a lot of older shippers don't quite get it - it's always funny on social media or whatever when young people rip into the pairing and people twice (or thrice!) their age start to spew molten salt.
    Do I think they'd do Spuffy again? Probably not. However, as someone who's probably at least twice the age of the young people on social media, and as someone who's spent 25 years teaching young people at university, I'll just add that some of them will "rip into the pairing" because they're thick and haven't read anything other than "social media" since they left school. You're welcome...

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    a thing of evil:
    This is so on point. Spuffy really did age extremely poorly, it's just so dated and corny.
    So, you'd say it was fantastic back then when it aired?

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    Did they remember to explain how vampires should be "cancelled" because they did not kill their victims in a nice, non-offensive manner?
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    The relationship between Buffy and Spike was supposed to highlight negative relationship elements. It was intended to be a complicated relationship that drew them both in because that happens to people when not every single aspect of the connection between them is negative. It's then within the context of the show and its mythology that they moved into a very different dynamic in the last season where they were able to start a different dynamic in which they strengthened and supported each other and were able to step away from some of the negative elements. You can't strip context away and just baldly transpose every aspect and shift as a real life situation because it just doesn't work to do that. And I don't think they couldn't do a relationship like that still these days in a new show, of course they could. The context of it and how they choose to draws the boundaries and distinctions are always full of possibilities. I know I don't watch a wide range of shows but I find it hard to believe that no current/recent show has depicted a relationship which has some very negative aspects to it and then moved the characters and the relationship beyond that.

    Totally agree about Xander's fantasy as either private or a dream that is out of his control. Heck, if everything we dreamed was taken as literal for judging us as people we'd all be in trouble for some very odd things.
    Last edited by Stoney; 28-07-19 at 09:54 PM.

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    So, you'd say it was fantastic back then when it aired?
    No. Spuffy always sucked - now it sucks just as much but it's also dated. It's like Spike's frosted tips. He never looked good in that quote-unquote hairstyle, they were always awful. Now they're awful and dated because nobody (I mean, aside from Guy Fieri, I guess) wears frosted tips anymore for goodness' sake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    in the last season where they were able to start a different dynamic in which they strengthened and supported each other and were able to step away from some of the negative elements
    No? I mean, OK, they don't abuse each other anymore but it's still fundamentally the same toxic, codependent dynamic. You sent away the one person that's been watching my back? Again. - what is wrong with you, Buffy? This isn't normal.

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    No. Spuffy always sucked
    In your opinion. There fixed that for yah......

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    It's like Spike's frosted tips. He never looked good in that quote-unquote hairstyle, they were always awful. Now they're awful and dated because nobody (I mean, aside from Guy Fieri, I guess) wears frosted tips anymore for goodness' sake.
    I might have agreed it's outmoded now but then we'd both be wrong according to Elle magazine.

    "Lately it seems that more and more men in Hollywood have been taking the bleach plunge. Are they going through something? Desperate for a change? Quarter/mid-life crisis? Prepping for a role? Who knows! All we can say is that despite the risky change, most of those who dare to try the icy hue look damn good".
    https://www.elle.com/beauty/g2578006...-hair/?slide=7

    Horses for courses I suppose.

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    Screenrant=Clickbait

    Bypassing the link, I couldn't make it past the Ted one.

    Joyce. Was. Drugged.

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    If I wanted to give them a click and comments, I would ask "Are you stupid, or just pretending to be stupid?"

    They have a really bizarre view of The 1990s and early 2000s if they think that things like Spike's AR were not very controversial when they aired, or that Joyce's drug-induced behavior in Ted was not supposed to feel very wrong. (BTW, my mom was very harsh on Joyce while watching it.)

    And the ideas of policing things like the portrayal of people's dreams they are too ashamed to tell others about it, or that a show that deals with horror of everyday life should not be allowed to really show the darker side of human behavior, or that heroes must be polite and non-offensive while trash talking their enemies during fight (that one is particularly funny) are really ludicrous, and, if the article was right that this made the show outdated, it would mean that art and entertainment has regressed and is now subject to a lot more censorship. Which I don't really believe.

    Things in BtVS that can really be said to have aged poorly:

    - the fact almost everyone is white
    - the argument between Tara and Willow in Tough Love
    - some of the dialogue in I Robot, You Jane - but that was outdated even the episode was made, WWW was already widely popular (it would have fit better in the early 1990s)
    - I doubt that the culture night thing from Inca Mummy Girl would be shown happening in a school and if it did, the episode would be critical and/or ironic about it, or else get heavily criticized for cultural appropriation.

    Now, there are things that make me roll my eyes, like the stereotypes re: the Romani, but I can't say it's "outdated" since US TV shows and Hollywood movies still use many of the same stereotypes (and cast white people as Romani) to this day.

    I'm in two minds whether killing Tara could be said to have "aged poorly" - because that caused backlash when it happened, as well, and I don't think they would do it again. But it would probably cause even more backlash today.
    Mind you, killing off lesbian characters in a similar way, when it has happened in TV shows in the 2010s, always draws criticism, but the reactions range from extreme backlash (as on The 100) to barely anyone giving a damn (The Walking Dead season 6), depending on the popularity of the character in question. (The character on TWD, who died in episode that aired around the same time as that infamous episode of The 100, was not thin and conventionally attractive, so she wasn't particularly popular and neither was her f/f ship, and the backlash amounted to maybe a couple of articles that were critical about it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    The relationship between Buffy and Spike was supposed to highlight negative relationship elements. It was intended to be a complicated relationship that drew them both in because that happens to people when not every single aspect of the connection between them is negative. It's then within the context of the show and its mythology that they moved into a very different dynamic in the last season where they were able to start a different dynamic in which they strengthened and supported each other and were able to step away from some of the negative elements. You can't strip context away and just baldly transpose every aspect and shift as a real life situation because it just doesn't work to do that. And I don't think they couldn't do a relationship like that still these days in a new show, of course they could. The context of it and how they choose to draws the boundaries and distinctions are always full of possibilities. I know I don't watch a wide range of shows but I find it hard to believe that no current/recent show has depicted a relationship which has some very negative aspects to it and then moved the characters and the relationship beyond that.

    Totally agree about Xander's fantasy as either private or a dream that is out of his control. Heck, if everything we dreamed was taken as literal for judging us as people we'd all be in trouble for some very odd things.
    TV shows depict such relationships all the time. They just usually don't do it as well and with that much depth as BtVS did.

    The only thing they wouldn't do is the AR. But that's also something that the BtVS writers wouldn't do again after the backlash it got. Because I'm pretty sure that always had backlash.

    Does the article say anything about the glossing over sexual assault when the woman was the perpetrator (e.g. Faith and Riley, Faith and Xander)? If not, it's because that hasn't "aged poorly" because TV shows still do the same thing - gloss over sexual assault or abuse in general when the woman is the perpetrator.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Pretty much everything people complain about now was complained about at the time. They also fail to differentiate between the media and segments of the fanbase glamorizing something and the show(s).

    I know they do it for the clicks and all, but what always gets me is how despite all the recriminations about the 80s/90s, shows from that era are still extremely popular and a lot of the most popular shows now are set in that era. Internet pundits always try to portray the world so much differently than it actually is. It makes me wonder how much they go outside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Pretty much everything people complain about now was complained about at the time. They also fail to differentiate between the media and segments of the fanbase glamorizing something and the show(s).

    I know they do it for the clicks and all, but what always gets me is how despite all the recriminations about the 80s/90s, shows from that era are still extremely popular and a lot of the most popular shows now are set in that era. Internet pundits always try to portray the world so much differently than it actually is. It makes me wonder how much they go outside.
    Yes, someone should tell them that 1990s/early 2000s were not really that different from today.

    Nowadays I see a lot of people claiming that the attitude to sexual assault and sexual harassment is harsher today, especially after the Weinstein case and the Me Too movement. And yet the President of the USA is someone who has been accused of multiple instances of sexual assault, including rape, and sexual harassment, by dozens of women, and has pretty much admitted in the past to sexually assaulting women on a regular basis, yet no one is trying to impeach him - so excuse me if I'm skeptical.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Did they remember to explain how vampires should be "cancelled" because they did not kill their victims in a nice, non-offensive manner?
    An inoffensive vampire...

    https://media2.giphy.com/media/lCjNg...&rid=giphy.gif

    ...who doesn't get the cookie.

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