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Thread: Lucifer

  1. #21
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
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    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



    * Clark Kent in Smallville had weaknesses. And the human characters were very useful and it made sense he'd fall for Lana Lang and then Lois Lane. Although, it made much more sense to me that he'd get with Kara Zor-El.

    Those other DC properties exist. Smallville and Young Justice have canon comics.

    And then there's this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Th...n_(Arrowverse)

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    I like it - for all the reasons flow and DBJ have given. I don't think it has an adverse effect on, or detracts from, The Sandman/Lucifer graphic novels. In fact, IIRC, there's a self-referential line in S1 (paraphrase) "I expected you to be blonde...yes, I get that a lot" (I could be wrong - it could be something Ellis said).

    I think it has a lot to say about the postmodern urban experience and postmodernity in general. Po-mo, love and desire were what I did my PhD on (eons ago - about the time Eden came into existence). It's partly the reason I'm attracted to it.
    Last edited by TriBel; 10-07-19 at 11:43 AM.

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    TriBel, did you say there are no shipping wars to be found within the Lucifer fandom? I am so into Piercifer right now ....

    At the very beginning Lucifer wasn't vulnerable when Chloe was around. He was shot while Chloe was right next to him and it didn't affect him. Do you think he became more and more vulnerabel while he more and more fell in love with her? Or do you thinkl falling in love made him - slowly - human? But why only around her? Do you think this was all set up by his father?

    Also, what is the deal with Maze at the moment? Lucifer offered to take back the vow that binds her to protect him but she declined. Still, she is doing her own thing now, isn't around often, claims she wants to be her own woman and mostly is angry at him. Is she still bound to protect him or did the bond get broken and I missed it somehow?

    There was a whole episode about fanfiction! I loved it!

    And I laughed out loud when Pierce was complaining how boring everything gets after a few millenia and how he has tried everything and went everywhere and then Amenedial asked "Have you tried Game of Thrones?" That was hilarious.

    flow
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    TriBel (10-07-19)

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    Do you think he became more and more vulnerabel while he more and more fell in love with her? Or do you thinkl falling in love made him - slowly - human? But why only around her? Do you think this was all set up by his father?
    I think his mortality is a visual metaphor for the process of falling in love. You're (the ego) always vulnerable in the early stages - you love that person but does that person love you back? It's a risky business. Lucifer's body literally "opens" up to her - as he says - she penetrates him - he fails to penetrate her. It's kinda matched by his relationship with Linda. Linda shuts down or closes their physical relationship but he begins to open up to her psychologically. The closer Luci gets to Chloe the more vulnerable he becomes. We see this when he's cutting himself - physical distance = emotional distance. I can't say too much because of spoiling S4 but I don't think he's becoming "human" - just mortal. She doesn't make him a "man" - she makes him a "better man" (as with Spike and Buffy - he's a better man but still a vampire). S4 makes it clearer. As for the part his father plays in it, you need to watch Ep 26.

    I loved the GoT reference! There are parts of it that make me laugh out loud!

    Is she still bound to protect him or did the bond get broken
    I don't think she's bound to him anymore. However, as much as she wants to be her own woman, I think she also wants to belong to someone...to be bound to someone (I think it's related to her relationship with her own mother). There's a line in S4 (in an episode where her mother is mentioned) that talks about the bond between mother and child. A bondsman is another term for slave (her original relationship with Luci is that of servant). It's also someone who puts up bail for a criminal, who stands surety. I don't think it's coincidence Maze becomes a bounty hunter (someone who captures criminals who break the bond). She seems to have a desperate need to protect (again - I think this relates to a failing in her mother).

    I take it you've just watched the episode where Piercifer move in together? The argument over the dips? Tom in the speedo swimming trucks and the too short jeans? I think it runs very close to "queer baiting" in that episode.
    Last edited by TriBel; 11-07-19 at 01:48 AM.

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    I love season 3 so much better than season 2! Wonderful Deckerstar moments. The prom was so beautiful, not like that cheesy prom from BtVS. Maze is a tad bit of a drama queen right now. I don’t really like that. You don’t hurt Trixie and get away with it! I love Pierce. He is awesome (and probably evil before the season ends).

    I just realized that I have maybe two more nights for season 3 and then there is only season 4 left and then nothing until May next year
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    I just realized that I have maybe two more nights for season 3 and then there is only season 4 left and then nothing until May next year
    Watch it again! I've just this second finished my fourth complete rewatch since May.

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    SPOILER ALERT !


    Only two episodes of season 3 left. I knew Pierce was going to go evil before the season ends! But I admit it was quite obvious. I am not sure if Maze can be redeemed. She is responsible for a lot of really bad things happening this season including Charlottes death and she was really mean to every single one of the main cast.

    I actually had tears in my eyes when Charlotte died and I didn't even like her character.

    I cringed a lot when Lucifer was reenacting all those sweet Deckerstar moments with Chloe. Especially when it came to the prom moment which I loved a lot and I was glad Chloe told him off. He is going backwards at the moment and is rehearsing lessons he should already have learned. But I guess they have to stall the inevitable moment when he and Chloe finally fall into each others arms. Their kiss was so sweet. And then ... poof ... devil face .... and we are back to square one.

    I am wondering if killing Pierce was in itself an evil act or not and I am also wondering if and how Lucifer can be redeemed for killing Uriel. Or would you say the latter was a case of necessity as excuse?

    flow
    Last edited by flow; Yesterday at 10:56 AM.
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    TriBel (13-07-19)

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    I am wondering if killing Pierce was in itself an evil act or not and I am also wondering if and how Lucifer can be redeemed for killing Uriel.
    Dunno. Pierce - wait and see. Uriel - he killed Uriel to protect his mum and Chloe. It was Uriel who brought the sword to earth. Uriel can predict patterns - should he have predicted his own death? And, wasn't Uriel claiming it was what God wanted - when, in actual fact, no-one knows God's plan (it's ineffable). Perhaps God wanted Uriel out of the way (on the grounds he looks like an accountant ). Lucifer "felt" guilty - hence him becoming trapped in Hell but his mum absolved him of guilt. Where does forgiveness come from when you're (possibly) the third most powerful entity in the universe?

    Cain initially wanted to die. How many deaths had the Sinnerman caused? He was happy enough to have Dan killed, he'd have let his henchmen finish off Maze, Decker and Luci. He killed Charlotte while trying to kill Amena-dude so he'd become immortal again. He'd brought the Hell-forged dagger specifically to kill Luci. Would Chloe be safe if Lucifer had allowed him to live? And, why did God deliberately put Chloe in Lucifer's path? Perhaps so he'd kill Cain trying to protect her? And would Cain have been punished if Luci allowed him to live? Being immortal was God's punishment but - in the end - Cain wanted his immortality back so it wasn't punishment but something desirable - almost a reward. It was Abel I felt sorry for...

    Maze...but she all she wanted to do was go home! Luci wouldn't take her because he wouldn't risk Chloe. You've fallen for Pierce haven't you? Wasn't she involved because Cain wanted to die and Luci broke his promise?

    I was pleased for Amena-dude at the end - he's got the coolest wings! I really like DBW in this. I quite liked Charlotte - the fact that she was almost driven mad by what had happened before was reason enough to like her.

    I agree about Luci going backwards but I think much of it is due to denial. And yes...he does make you cringe! For me, what makes it bearable is Ellis' ability to show a dawning awareness that he's actually being a d*ck.
    Last edited by TriBel; 13-07-19 at 06:28 PM.

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    Episode 25 was weird. Azrael was sweet but how does the episode fit in chronologically? Is this really supposed to be happening after the ending of episode 24, when Chloe said "It's all true. It's all true."?

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    I like her (Rae-Rae). There's something about it here but don't read it unless you've watched the final extra episode because there are spoilers. https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...-canon-series/

    They were going to use the Rae-Rae episode in S4 but they think really it should be just before the Abel ep in 3. I wondered whether El had actually died and Azrael had failed to take her. The final ep is in the right place according to the above.

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    I'll have to come back to s03/26 after a re-watch.

    But, oh my gosh, season 04 episodes 01 and 02 broke my heart again and again. The look on his face, when she asks him how many humans he has killed and if he keeps track of his killing and enjoys torturing. And also the look on his face when she asks him if she could kill him with the axe. And how he decided to prepare such a low key date with them sitting on his penthouse floor and eating grilled cheese sandwiches. The planned opera/helicopter/Pretty Woman date would have been just so over the top. But he gave the tickets to Ella and her grandmother. How cute is he?

    And I feel so sorry for Chloe. She is going through so much. By the way she looks different - she already did in season 03. It's probably due to Botox but it gives her such a worn out and hardened look that fits with her inner turmoil.

    My heart broke a dozen times through those two episodes.

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  19. #32
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    She is going through so much. By the way she looks different - she already did in season 03. It's probably due to Botox but it gives her such a worn out and hardened look that fits with her inner turmoil.
    Yeah...I thought she looked noticeably different and presumed the reason you did. But, as you say, it suits the plot and the idea of things weighing heavy on her. The section of the arc that's to come - I could slap him sometimes! The secret is to watch his face when he gets into the lift. There's inner turmoil for all the characters - which is why I think it's a satisfying season.

    S3 E26. What I took away from it was God might have manipulated Chloe into Luci's path but every path they could have taken would have had the same outcome. So "divinely decreed destiny" versus simple "destiny (fate?)". It's the "everyone wants what's best for their children" remark that's slightly ominous - Penny Decker wanted what was best for Chloe; Chloe wants what's best for Trixie; the Goddess wanted something similar. However, the children rebel. Ella might be the one to watch - she's got powerful female figures behind her and her brothers seem very weak. I have my suspicions about her.

    I'm rewatching S1 and the change in Luci from 1-4 is obvious.
    Last edited by TriBel; Today at 01:13 PM.

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