Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 64

Thread: Lucifer

  1. #21
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,583
    Thanks
    3,488
    Thanked 637 Times in 377 Posts

    Default

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



    * Clark Kent in Smallville had weaknesses. And the human characters were very useful and it made sense he'd fall for Lana Lang and then Lois Lane. Although, it made much more sense to me that he'd get with Kara Zor-El.

    Those other DC properties exist. Smallville and Young Justice have canon comics.

    And then there's this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Th...n_(Arrowverse)

  2. #22
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    I like it - for all the reasons flow and DBJ have given. I don't think it has an adverse effect on, or detracts from, The Sandman/Lucifer graphic novels. In fact, IIRC, there's a self-referential line in S1 (paraphrase) "I expected you to be blonde...yes, I get that a lot" (I could be wrong - it could be something Ellis said).

    I think it has a lot to say about the postmodern urban experience and postmodernity in general. Po-mo, love and desire were what I did my PhD on (eons ago - about the time Eden came into existence). It's partly the reason I'm attracted to it.
    Last edited by TriBel; 10-07-19 at 12:43 PM.

  3. #23
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    TriBel, did you say there are no shipping wars to be found within the Lucifer fandom? I am so into Piercifer right now ....

    At the very beginning Lucifer wasn't vulnerable when Chloe was around. He was shot while Chloe was right next to him and it didn't affect him. Do you think he became more and more vulnerabel while he more and more fell in love with her? Or do you thinkl falling in love made him - slowly - human? But why only around her? Do you think this was all set up by his father?

    Also, what is the deal with Maze at the moment? Lucifer offered to take back the vow that binds her to protect him but she declined. Still, she is doing her own thing now, isn't around often, claims she wants to be her own woman and mostly is angry at him. Is she still bound to protect him or did the bond get broken and I missed it somehow?

    There was a whole episode about fanfiction! I loved it!

    And I laughed out loud when Pierce was complaining how boring everything gets after a few millenia and how he has tried everything and went everywhere and then Amenedial asked "Have you tried Game of Thrones?" That was hilarious.

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (10-07-19)

  5. #24
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    Do you think he became more and more vulnerabel while he more and more fell in love with her? Or do you thinkl falling in love made him - slowly - human? But why only around her? Do you think this was all set up by his father?
    I think his mortality is a visual metaphor for the process of falling in love. You're (the ego) always vulnerable in the early stages - you love that person but does that person love you back? It's a risky business. Lucifer's body literally "opens" up to her - as he says - she penetrates him - he fails to penetrate her. It's kinda matched by his relationship with Linda. Linda shuts down or closes their physical relationship but he begins to open up to her psychologically. The closer Luci gets to Chloe the more vulnerable he becomes. We see this when he's cutting himself - physical distance = emotional distance. I can't say too much because of spoiling S4 but I don't think he's becoming "human" - just mortal. She doesn't make him a "man" - she makes him a "better man" (as with Spike and Buffy - he's a better man but still a vampire). S4 makes it clearer. As for the part his father plays in it, you need to watch Ep 26.

    I loved the GoT reference! There are parts of it that make me laugh out loud!

    Is she still bound to protect him or did the bond get broken
    I don't think she's bound to him anymore. However, as much as she wants to be her own woman, I think she also wants to belong to someone...to be bound to someone (I think it's related to her relationship with her own mother). There's a line in S4 (in an episode where her mother is mentioned) that talks about the bond between mother and child. A bondsman is another term for slave (her original relationship with Luci is that of servant). It's also someone who puts up bail for a criminal, who stands surety. I don't think it's coincidence Maze becomes a bounty hunter (someone who captures criminals who break the bond). She seems to have a desperate need to protect (again - I think this relates to a failing in her mother).

    I take it you've just watched the episode where Piercifer move in together? The argument over the dips? Tom in the speedo swimming trucks and the too short jeans? I think it runs very close to "queer baiting" in that episode.
    Last edited by TriBel; 11-07-19 at 02:48 AM.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    flow (11-07-19)

  7. #25
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    I love season 3 so much better than season 2! Wonderful Deckerstar moments. The prom was so beautiful, not like that cheesy prom from BtVS. Maze is a tad bit of a drama queen right now. I don’t really like that. You don’t hurt Trixie and get away with it! I love Pierce. He is awesome (and probably evil before the season ends).

    I just realized that I have maybe two more nights for season 3 and then there is only season 4 left and then nothing until May next year
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (12-07-19)

  9. #26
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    I just realized that I have maybe two more nights for season 3 and then there is only season 4 left and then nothing until May next year
    Watch it again! I've just this second finished my fourth complete rewatch since May.

  10. #27
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    SPOILER ALERT !


    Only two episodes of season 3 left. I knew Pierce was going to go evil before the season ends! But I admit it was quite obvious. I am not sure if Maze can be redeemed. She is responsible for a lot of really bad things happening this season including Charlottes death and she was really mean to every single one of the main cast.

    I actually had tears in my eyes when Charlotte died and I didn't even like her character.

    I cringed a lot when Lucifer was reenacting all those sweet Deckerstar moments with Chloe. Especially when it came to the prom moment which I loved a lot and I was glad Chloe told him off. He is going backwards at the moment and is rehearsing lessons he should already have learned. But I guess they have to stall the inevitable moment when he and Chloe finally fall into each others arms. Their kiss was so sweet. And then ... poof ... devil face .... and we are back to square one.

    I am wondering if killing Pierce was in itself an evil act or not and I am also wondering if and how Lucifer can be redeemed for killing Uriel. Or would you say the latter was a case of necessity as excuse?

    flow
    Last edited by flow; 14-07-19 at 11:56 AM.
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (13-07-19)

  12. #28
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    I am wondering if killing Pierce was in itself an evil act or not and I am also wondering if and how Lucifer can be redeemed for killing Uriel.
    Dunno. Pierce - wait and see. Uriel - he killed Uriel to protect his mum and Chloe. It was Uriel who brought the sword to earth. Uriel can predict patterns - should he have predicted his own death? And, wasn't Uriel claiming it was what God wanted - when, in actual fact, no-one knows God's plan (it's ineffable). Perhaps God wanted Uriel out of the way (on the grounds he looks like an accountant ). Lucifer "felt" guilty - hence him becoming trapped in Hell but his mum absolved him of guilt. Where does forgiveness come from when you're (possibly) the third most powerful entity in the universe?

    Cain initially wanted to die. How many deaths had the Sinnerman caused? He was happy enough to have Dan killed, he'd have let his henchmen finish off Maze, Decker and Luci. He killed Charlotte while trying to kill Amena-dude so he'd become immortal again. He'd brought the Hell-forged dagger specifically to kill Luci. Would Chloe be safe if Lucifer had allowed him to live? And, why did God deliberately put Chloe in Lucifer's path? Perhaps so he'd kill Cain trying to protect her? And would Cain have been punished if Luci allowed him to live? Being immortal was God's punishment but - in the end - Cain wanted his immortality back so it wasn't punishment but something desirable - almost a reward. It was Abel I felt sorry for...

    Maze...but she all she wanted to do was go home! Luci wouldn't take her because he wouldn't risk Chloe. You've fallen for Pierce haven't you? Wasn't she involved because Cain wanted to die and Luci broke his promise?

    I was pleased for Amena-dude at the end - he's got the coolest wings! I really like DBW in this. I quite liked Charlotte - the fact that she was almost driven mad by what had happened before was reason enough to like her.

    I agree about Luci going backwards but I think much of it is due to denial. And yes...he does make you cringe! For me, what makes it bearable is Ellis' ability to show a dawning awareness that he's actually being a d*ck.
    Last edited by TriBel; 13-07-19 at 07:28 PM.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    flow (14-07-19)

  14. #29
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    Episode 25 was weird. Azrael was sweet but how does the episode fit in chronologically? Is this really supposed to be happening after the ending of episode 24, when Chloe said "It's all true. It's all true."?

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (14-07-19)

  16. #30
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    I like her (Rae-Rae). There's something about it here but don't read it unless you've watched the final extra episode because there are spoilers. https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...-canon-series/

    They were going to use the Rae-Rae episode in S4 but they think really it should be just before the Abel ep in 3. I wondered whether El had actually died and Azrael had failed to take her. The final ep is in the right place according to the above.

  17. #31
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    I'll have to come back to s03/26 after a re-watch.

    But, oh my gosh, season 04 episodes 01 and 02 broke my heart again and again. The look on his face, when she asks him how many humans he has killed and if he keeps track of his killing and enjoys torturing. And also the look on his face when she asks him if she could kill him with the axe. And how he decided to prepare such a low key date with them sitting on his penthouse floor and eating grilled cheese sandwiches. The planned opera/helicopter/Pretty Woman date would have been just so over the top. But he gave the tickets to Ella and her grandmother. How cute is he?

    And I feel so sorry for Chloe. She is going through so much. By the way she looks different - she already did in season 03. It's probably due to Botox but it gives her such a worn out and hardened look that fits with her inner turmoil.

    My heart broke a dozen times through those two episodes.

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (15-07-19)

  19. #32
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    She is going through so much. By the way she looks different - she already did in season 03. It's probably due to Botox but it gives her such a worn out and hardened look that fits with her inner turmoil.
    Yeah...I thought she looked noticeably different and presumed the reason you did. But, as you say, it suits the plot and the idea of things weighing heavy on her. The section of the arc that's to come - I could slap him sometimes! The secret is to watch his face when he gets into the lift. There's inner turmoil for all the characters - which is why I think it's a satisfying season.

    S3 E26. What I took away from it was God might have manipulated Chloe into Luci's path but every path they could have taken would have had the same outcome. So "divinely decreed destiny" versus simple "destiny (fate?)". It's the "everyone wants what's best for their children" remark that's slightly ominous - Penny Decker wanted what was best for Chloe; Chloe wants what's best for Trixie; the Goddess wanted something similar. However, the children rebel. Ella might be the one to watch - she's got powerful female figures behind her and her brothers seem very weak. I have my suspicions about her.

    I'm rewatching S1 and the change in Luci from 1-4 is obvious.
    Last edited by TriBel; 15-07-19 at 02:13 PM.

  20. #33
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    TriBel:
    Uriel - he killed Uriel to protect his mum and Chloe. It was Uriel who brought the sword to earth. Uriel can predict patterns - should he have predicted his own death? And, wasn't Uriel claiming it was what God wanted - when, in actual fact, no-one knows God's plan (it's ineffable). Perhaps God wanted Uriel out of the way (on the grounds he looks like an accountant ). Lucifer "felt" guilty - hence him becoming trapped in Hell but his mum absolved him of guilt. Where does forgiveness come from when you're (possibly) the third most powerful entity in the universe?
    Yes, Uriel had told Lucifer that pressing the key would inevitably lead to Chloe's death. It's not different from putting a gun to her head and telling Lucifer he was going to pull the trigger. If Lucifer had taken him out then it would surely had been justified. I still think though that Chloe would have tried to stab and injure him instead of killing him. Which would of course not have lessen the threat since Uriel could have set another chain reaction into motion.

    Uriel brought his fate upon himself. I don't think he predicted his own death though because he said "I didn't see that coming." It was probably a rather unpredictable move from Lucifer's side. Uriel obviously never expected Lucifer to seriously try to kill him. Which makes sense because it was all about Lucifer not wanting their mom to be killed. Uriel might have relied too much on Lucifer's sense of family.

    TriBel:
    Cain initially wanted to die. How many deaths had the Sinnerman caused? He was happy enough to have Dan killed, he'd have let his henchmen finish off Maze, Decker and Luci. He killed Charlotte while trying to kill Amena-dude so he'd become immortal again. He'd brought the Hell-forged dagger specifically to kill Luci. Would Chloe be safe if Lucifer had allowed him to live? And, why did God deliberately put Chloe in Lucifer's path? Perhaps so he'd kill Cain trying to protect her? And would Cain have been punished if Luci allowed him to live? Being immortal was God's punishment but - in the end - Cain wanted his immortality back so it wasn't punishment but something desirable - almost a reward. It was Abel I felt sorry for...
    True, but the moment they fought he did not want to die anymore. Was the deal he made with Lucifer still valid despite he changed his mind? Clearly Cain has killed many people and is responsible for the death of many more. But the same goes for Julian and it would clearly not have been right to kill him. It wasn't even right to beat him up as badly as Lucifer did. I don't think Cain/Pierce would have tried to kill Chloe. He still loved her and his last thought was for her safety and well being (yesssss, I still have a soft spot for Pierce).

    It's true that immortality wasn't a curse for Cain any longer. Maybe his punishment wasn't mortality but death and maybe God took Cain's immortality away so Lucifer could kill him. But was Lucifer really justified to punish him? Considering he was now mortal he could just have sent him to jail for the murder of Charlotte.


    I am now up to episode 5 of season 4.

    I have to say that I really admire how they keep the pace, the humour and the characters on spot even after four seasons. Eve was instantly likeable. She is a real cutie although she has a bad influence on Lucifer. Did it ocurr to you that she almost became Chloe's mother-in-law?

    I can't approve of what Lucifer did to Julian and I am curious how they are going to redeem him for that.

    His facial expression in the elevator was heart breaking. As for Chloe throwing herself onto Lucifer's body right before the expected explosion at Lux - I was wondering if she really tried to protect him or if she only wanted to die in his arms...

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  21. #34
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    I think I need to go back to S1 and make notes.

    I hated Julian (and his dad) so I don't care. Actually, I can't say too much because of spoilers but I'm ambivalent about it. An innocent died because Lucifer tried to do the right thing and didn't stop Julian in the first instance. If the police arrest Julian, it's possible he'll get off because money talks (and Lucifer knows this because he uses money as a shortcut or to absolve himself of responsibility). The text tells us that Julian goes from one bad thing to another with his father buying him out - even the criminals are growing tired of him. So...perhaps Lucifer punishes him here because even if Julian dies, there's no-one in Hell to punish him - unless Luci goes back? He just makes the punishment pre- rather than postmortem. So...is his justification of it the truth or is he lying to himself because he knows he's not fulfilling his duty? LOL! I think the phrase "What Would Lucifer Do" has resonance throughout and perhaps needs to be written as what should Lucifer do?

    The characterization - I love it. There isn't a single main character I'm not invested in. I even like some of the minor characters like Mr Said Out Bitch! D'you think Lucifer gets dumber in S2/3? Or is it just a case of having to forget what he thought he knew? Is he "relearning"?

  22. #35
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    I finished my first watch!

    TriBel, I can't thank you enough for convincing me to watch this show. it has been an incredible ride and now I will have to sit and wait patiently for May 2020. I am still on my parallel watch with my hubby though, so that's comforting.

    I really liked the Amena-dude/Caleb epsiode. This was the first epiosde in three seasons in which Amenadiel's character contributed to the show in a menaingful way. It was great stuff! The only character that was completely useless imho was Remediel. She came, complained about humanity, fought Amenadiel, lost and walked away. No consequences whatsoever. Also, she is the only character who did not convince me at all. I didn't like her and I didn't dislike her. She was just meaningless and the acting was awful.

    I loved the Balcony scene between Chloe and Lucifer after Tiernan tried to get Lucifer killed. It was almost like a Spuffy-on-the-back-steps moment.

    So, any speculations, where they will be going with season 5? Will Lucifer return? Will Chloe go to hell to find him?

    flow

    - - - Updated - - -

    About Lucifer getting dumber - no I don't think he is. The problem is, that he keeps making the same mistakes over and over and learning lessons he already should have learned but I think that's just because they have to drag the process out over the course of four seasons. It's more like the show repeating those lessons again and again and not Lucifer himself. It makes him look dumb sometimes and I want to yell at him "You already know that!" from time to time. But I still rather have it this way than have less episodes or seasons.

    flow
    Last edited by flow; 19-07-19 at 03:36 PM.
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (19-07-19)

  24. #36
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    flow: I'm glad your time wasn't wasted - I'm also pleased you enjoyed it as much as me! And I'm blown away about the fact that your hubby deigned to watch it with you. He's a man of impeccable taste!

    I'm absolutely addicted to it. I'm on my 5th complete re-watch since May (which means I've done more re-watches of this than any other programme - inc. BtVS, The Wire and The Sopranos). They've also been back-to-back - I don't think I've done this since The Wire. Re-watching shows up the flaws (plot holes, unbelievable moments in relation to police procedures etc) but it also reinforces its strengths. It's very funny. Sometimes it's slapstick but at other times it's more subtle - I actually laugh out loud at parts of it.

    I might go back to the beginning and make notes. I've been reading the comics - I've just finished the fourth omnibus - God...they're hard! A couple of things struck me about S4 - the upside-down tree in Lux - it kinda marks a transition from earth to Hell in the last scene. In the omnibus I've just read, there's a tree from with lights/stars on it - it's "Yggdrasil an immense mythical tree that plays a central role in Norse cosmology, where it connects the Nine Worlds". The comic story involves Lilith and Michael - who were both mentioned in S4. There's also a character called Elaine - she's half-human/half Angel. I'm wondering if there's something I can glean from that? Is it S4 where someone says they expected Lucifer to be blonde?

    ETA:

    OMG
    - I've just switched my other lap-top on to watch Lucifer. The log on screen appeared and I ignored it and came back to this notebook. Five minutes later, Lucifer started playing on the laptop. BUT I HADN'T LOGGED ON! The damned laptop's showing some random picture of Capetown and waiting for my password and Lucifer's playing in the background.

    Either my lap-top's haunted or God's alive and well and working in some very mysterious way.

    Remi - I agree. IMO, it was pointless.

    Luci going back: is it "free will"? He's gone back a) to protect Chloe and b) because being with Chloe's made him a better man and a better devil - is this what God wanted all along?
    Last edited by TriBel; 19-07-19 at 10:17 PM.

  25. #37
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    Either my lap-top's haunted or God's alive and well and working in some very mysterious way.
    Definitely the latter

    There's also a character called Elaine - she's half-human/half Angel.
    Elaine = Ella? A very wild guess. I actually don't think, Ella is in any way celestial, just because she is so very down-to-earth. And she and dan don't have chemistry. I hope the won't go down that road in season 5. Please let it just be a one-time-mistake.

    Luci going back: is it "free will"? He's gone back a) to protect Chloe and b) because being with Chloe's made him a better man and a better devil - is this what God wanted all along?
    I think he went back to not only save Chloe but humankind. I was surprised when he told her he isn't sure he likes how she makes him feel. I have to rewatch that particular scene. Does it mean he doesn't like being a better man?

    Imho he always was a good man aka good angel aka good devil. Otherwise he would not have hated himself for being the devil. He never killed anyone before Uriel. He never killed a human before Pierce. He forbade demons to the bodies of dead humans. The doors in hell are always open. Everyone is free to go - they don't know it but they are. It's their own guilt that keeps them there, not Lucifer. Do we actually know about a single evil deed Lucifer has comitted before breaking Julian's back? Sadly, when he does that he finally falls from grace - and has to return to hell. I hope he has a sibling with healing powers so that poor Julian can be cured in season 5 and Lucifer can be redeemed.

    What is free will anyway? How free are we to form a will that's not influenced by what we are, how we are connected to others, how we want ourselves to be seen by others and how we regard ourselves?

    Lucifer's fear of being manipulated by his father has been a huge obstacle for him acting out of free will. Everything he did was driven by the desire to defy what he assumed to be his fathers manipulations and machinations But what if he was wrong? What if his father hadn't manipulated him at all? Éven if his father has blessed Chloe so she would be immune to Lucifer's charms, what if he did it only to give him the smallest nudge, to point him in her direction. Not because he wanted him to become a better man and to voluntarily go back to hell and his tedious job of ruling over demons. But rather because he wanted him to have a chance at happiness.

    flow

    - - - Updated - - -

    And even if his father created Chloe solely to put her in Lucifer's path there was more than just one Option. Fully knwoing God's scheme they could both still ahve decided to own the Feelings they had and to act upon them and it still would have been their choice. Instead Lucifer Chose to run away but who says that isn't what God always wanted because humans and celestials are not meant to interact?

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  26. #38
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    I think he went back to not only save Chloe but humankind. I was surprised when he told her he isn't sure he likes how she makes him feel. I have to rewatch that particular scene. Does it mean he doesn't like being a better man?
    I think he wants to be his OWN man. I was uncomfortable with the scene where she took him to the soup kitchen. There's Eve on one hand trying to make him "bad" and Chloe on the other trying to persuade him to be good. I think he wants to be self-determining.

    I hope he has a sibling with healing powers so that poor Julian can be cured in season 5 and Lucifer can be redeemed.
    I've just opened the fifth & final Lucifer omnibus. No idea what the first story's about but there's a guy in a wheelchair!

    What is free will anyway? How free are we to form a will that's not influenced by what we are, how we are connected to others, how we want ourselves to be seen by others and how we regard ourselves?
    I've no idea - it's something I've always had issues with.

    Lucifer's fear of being manipulated by his father has been a huge obstacle for him acting out of free will. Everything he did was driven by the desire to defy what he assumed to be his fathers manipulations and machinations But what if he was wrong? What if his father hadn't manipulated him at all? Éven if his father has blessed Chloe so she would be immune to Lucifer's charms, what if he did it only to give him the smallest nudge, to point him in her direction. Not because he wanted him to become a better man and to voluntarily go back to hell and his tedious job of ruling over demons. But rather because he wanted him to have a chance at happiness.
    This is why I need to take notes - the "what ifs". Someone makes a remark about "tiny baby steps" (might be Linda?). Perhaps this is why his learning process is very slow. Perhaps it's not that he doesn't learn and keeps making the same mistakes - perhaps the steps are subtly different and the learning's very incremental? At the same time, things happen that mean for every two steps forward he has to take one step backwards.

    The similarities between the penthouse and his throne are interesting. Also - people go the LA to re-invent themselves and are stuck in Hell because they can't change. I also like the overhead shots of LA - a God's eye view!

    LOL! I'm more confused after talking to you than I was before!

    I've just watched 2 - 6. Amena-dude's at Uriel's grave. He says he's gonna stop trying to please someone (God) who isn't there. The way the light's flooding through the trees suggests God is there.
    Last edited by TriBel; 20-07-19 at 01:20 AM.

  27. #39
    Slayer flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,745
    Thanks
    4,378
    Thanked 4,255 Times in 1,753 Posts

    Default

    TriBel:[QUOTE] I think he wants to be his OWN man. I was uncomfortable with the scene where she took him to the soup kitchen. There's Eve on one hand trying to make him "bad" and Chloe on the other trying to persuade him to be good. I think he wants to be self-determining.
    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, that makes a lot of sense. There is no self-worth to be found in another person anyway. Nor can you use another person as your own Moral compass (like Spike tried in season 6 with Buffy). Whatever he chooses to be has to come from within himself.

    TriBel:
    perhaps the steps are subtly different and the learning's very incremental?
    That's what I thought was the difference between his sexual activities in season1/2 on the one hand and season 4 on the other hand. In season 1/2 he was trying to find what he desired in meaningless sexual encounters. But he only found empty pleasure and not what he trulky desired - being loved. In season 4 he finally had found a woman who truly loved him and all of him and therefore he thought meaningless sexual encounters would no longer be empty pleasure but a lot of fun. He was still wrong but it was a different lesson to learn. I still have to figure out how season 3 fits with that. I'll Keep an eye on it during my re-watch with my hubby.

    I rewatched the "God"-epsiode with him yesterday and I liked it even more than the first time around. I think they let it deliberately open to interpretation whether Earl was God or possessed by God or just an emmissary of God or maybe just a delusional patient in a mental institution. But I noticed on the re-watch that "God" made no remark at all about the conversation he had with Lucifer about a year ago when Lucifer asked him to protect Chloe.

    I was again appaled by Charlotte quoting one of the most beautiful lines ever from Touched (will you just hold me) and then added "with your pants off". Duh. I'm glad she will soon be gone.

    flow

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just one more thought - I really like Lucifer's Devil voice.

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (24-07-19)

  29. #40
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,877
    Thanks
    4,910
    Thanked 5,026 Times in 2,195 Posts

    Default

    LOL! I've just finished watching God Johnson! Parts of it are so funny. Poor Lucifer goes through the whole range of emotions - his expression when he sees his mum and "dad" kissing...and when God tells him he's proud of him. I really want Earl to be God - I think it was kept vague because of the fear of complaints.

    I was again appaled by Charlotte quoting one of the most beautiful lines ever from Touched (will you just hold me) and then added "with your pants off".
    Yeah...I noticed that. From what I've read, S2 was a homage to BtVS. Aimee Garcia specifically mentions Ep 8 (which is A Trip to Stabby Town).

    Just one more thought - I really like Lucifer's Devil voice.
    I'm not sure. Tom has so many tones - do you mean his "angry, red eye" voice or his full on "face and red wings" S4 voice?
    Last edited by TriBel; 24-07-19 at 11:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •