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  1. #41
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    The full on season 4 voice! „You’re lucky I haven‘t incinerated you!“ I think that sounds really sexy :-)

    flow

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    I just noticed that Ella never looks at Lucifer with "carnal fascination". Do you think his mojo doesn't work on her or did he never try?

    I googled Chloe (the name) and came up with Daphnis and Chloe. He fell, she saved him. Also she was adopted. I am wondering if she really is the miracle child that has been blessed by Amenadiel for reasons we still don't know. Even if God made Chloe immune to Lucifer's charms to give him a nudge towards her in the AU dimension it doesn't mean he did the same in our dimension.

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    You're right about Ella.

    Ella means "light"; "goddess" in modern Hebrew. In the Mike Carey comics, Lucifer's dad disappears (it's more complicated than this). There's a new God - Elaine - she's the daughter of Michael (he was mentioned in S4).

    LOL! "What If God Was One Of Us?"

    Also Ella: "Any bro of Lucifer's is a bro of mine" would hint at a family connection.

    "Elaine first enters the series as a young girl with the special ability to communicate with spirits of the dead and see into the open minds of others (kinda fits with Forensic scientist). Her best friend Mona Doyle was recently murdered and her spirit came to reside with Elaine". Situation sounds similar to RaeRae. Also Elaine's helped by the ghosts of her grandmothers (Ella keeps mentioning her female ancestors).

    "Elaine as a girl's name is of Greek origin meaning "sun ray or shining light".

    This name derives from the Hebrew "El-yud-ana > 'Eli'anah > Eliyanah", literally translated as "my God has answered me." It is composed of three Hebrew elements: "El", meaning God; "Ana", meaning answered; and the "Yud", located after "El", indicating first person possession.

    Chloe's also Demeter - the mother of Persephone - queen of the underworld. LOL! "The 1987 film The Princess Bride contains similarities to Daphnis and Chloe" - isn't that Dawn's favourite book.
    Last edited by TriBel; 25-07-19 at 09:47 PM.

  4. #43
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    We are going to get sixteen episodes instead of just ten!

    https://tvline.com/2019/07/26/lucife...e-episodes-16/


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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    We are going to get sixteen episodes instead of just ten!

    https://tvline.com/2019/07/26/lucife...e-episodes-16/


    flow
    Yay! I think that's better - while I really enjoyed S4 I also thought it felt rushed. TBH, the more I watch it (I'm partway through S3 on my 4th(?) full rewatch since May), the more impressed I am with it. It's incredibly funny and, IMO, far more nuanced than people give it credit for. Some of the better fan fiction's helped my understanding, as has reading Carey's comics. I suspect I may watch it on a continual loop until next May.

    Oy - Netflix -

    https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjS...XGGA/giphy.gif
    Last edited by TriBel; 27-07-19 at 09:38 AM.

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    We are at season 3 and Pierce has arrived. My husband calls him Axel because he thinks he looks like Axel Rose. He also thinks Pierce is an arrogant *******. I am with Ella on this. I think he is cool. My husband wanted to stop watching once again after the birthday present scene. He is wary that it will go downhill for Deckerstar from there on.

    Re-watching gave a whole new meaning to Pierce's look and line in the hospital after he got shot. "The possibility of dying never felt so real..."

    TriBel:
    I wondered whether El had actually died and Azrael had failed to take her.
    Yes, that's what I immediately thought when I first watched it. I think Azrael says something about a false alarm but why would she get a false alarm? I think she liked Ella and therefore spared her and that explains their ongoing friendship and also Ella's specialness - seeing the light in people and other things.

    I've been considering the killing of Uriel and Cain and the crippeling of Julian again.

    Uriel was clear self-defence and it wasn't in any way different from Chloe shooting Malcolm in the hangar in season 1. She didn't aim for Malcom's leg either. Cain had long outrun his lifespan on earth. He wanted to die - ealier at least - and God didn't want to punish him with immortality any more. He agreed to fight Lucifer and he had brought Maze's knife for that. He knew what he was in for. It was a fair fight. Lucifer won and Cain lost. And I think Cain himself was at peace with that until he realized he would begoing to hell.

    As for Julian - Dan did something similar and even worse to the prison warden in season 2. That guy was not only tortured but also killed because of Dan. Although he didn't get his own hands dirty, he is responsible for the murder because he tipped the Russians off. I only now realized that Chloe does not know about Dan's part in that. But she has said something very true - imho - about the murder. She said "he didn't deserve to die, he deserved to go to prison". I think the same goes for Julian. He didn't deserve to be crioppled, he deserved to go to prison. I am still not sure if they will let that get brushed under the carpet or if there will be some miraculous healing in season 5.

    Dan has a lot on his conscience now. Shooting Malcolm, stealing a gun from evidence, covering up Malcom's murder of his former partner, lying to Chloe about Palmetto, his involvement in the torturing and killing of the prison warden, tipping off Tiernan about who crippled his son and thereby endangering his own daughter...did I forget anything? Why was he at Palmetto in the first place? Seems to me Dan is not going to see dear Charlotte again...

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    Why was he at Palmetto in the first place? Seems to me Dan is not going to see dear Charlotte again...
    I'm not sure why he was at Palmetto. Does Malcolm mention it? I'd always presumed Dan was working with him before the shooting.

    The guy Tiernan kills dies because Lucifer breaks Julian's back. Lucifer knows this and feels guilty about it. Is this the catalyst for him becoming full on devil? Is it the catalyst for his fall? Without the fall, he can't rise - more importantly, he can't reconcile his two halves and can't consciously control them. What I'm wondering is whether there's a direct cause and effect between what happens to Julian and Lucifer returning to Hell? And...it's just occurred to me that nudist colony (no clothes, all the fruit) is very reminiscent of Eden - and there's the baptism/re-birth symbolism of the swimming pool.

    Why do you suppose he's called Julian? Obviously, there's the link to the Emperors through Julius Caesar and Tiernan also means Lord. His father's called Jacob - it was from Jacob that the 12 tribes of Israel originated. It was also Jacob who had the dream of the ladder to heaven - the ladder with angels ascending and descending. I dunno...might mean nothing but it's all very biblical.

    There's also the fuss over the ring. Jacob wants the ring back. Lucifer also has a ring...does Julian represent an aspect of Lucifer that Lucifer feels should be punished?

    I've no idea where I'm going with this.

    Ella. Does she look more like Trixie's parent (or sister) than Chloe/Dan? There's also the scene where they're wearing the same Sushi shirt. In the episode I'm watching - S3 "All about Her" Maze mentions Trixie's alien drawings - and Ella's wearing a T-shirt with a planet on it. What's this about?
    Last edited by TriBel; 29-07-19 at 01:33 AM.

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    I only just realized that there was a Chloe on Buffy as well.

    I also noticed that Chloe is wearing very peculiar looking T-SAhirts in season 3. They are always cut to cover her butt. She also very often wears sunglasses and when she takes them off her eyes look to be swollen as if she had a) surgery, b) been crying a lot, c) heavily drinking.

    I watched an Angel episode yesterday and thought that Kate is an almost perfect mix of a Chloe character and a Buffy character.

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  12. #48
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    https://66.media.tumblr.com/3bafb2ea...zmbko7_400.gif

    Found this on ariaadagio's tumblr. She's got some great artwork and Gif sets. She also talks about writing fanfic (she's written AtS and BtVS - I suspect she might be Cangel). https://ariaadagio.tumblr.com/

    a) surgery, b) been crying a lot, c) heavily drinking.
    I hadn't noticed - are you suggesting this of LG or Chloe?

    Re Buffy/Angel - oh undoubtedly, there's more than a trace there.

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    That Gif is so sexy!

    Re: LG - I am not sure. It might be crying for Chloe. tTe others don't really fit her. But maybe it's drinking or surger for LG. Dunno.

    flow

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    This one is sexy too

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    LOL!

    I'm watching S4 Ep 3 now and she's wearing shirts that cover her butt. There were rumours of pregnancy - not sure how true they were. She doesn't look as fresh faced in 4 as she did in S1 - but then, neither does TE. She's also not as thin as she was - but then neither is he - as your Gif testifies.

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    I thought he had worked out more for season 4 compared to how he looked in season 1!

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    He got ripped for S4. Apparently, from what I read, it was a bet or a dare with his daughter to get a six-pack before he turned 40. https://www.menshealth.com/entertain...orkout-photos/

    Priceless calls it "Gym *****. Oh for goodness sake - why does it censor that? Rhymes with pawn!


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    OMG, that sounds so dire. Three months doing a full time job working out, no beer or any other alcohol, strict diet and all that for nothing but a bit more defined body. He was already hot hell before he started that!

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    TBH, I don't recall him looking as big in S4 as he looks in some of those shots. His arms are huge. LOL! Must have cost Netflix a fortune in new suits!

    Seen this?


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    Oh yessss.....

    Can I say, I want to have ... a nice little talk with him? Don't tell my hubby...

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    @flow: I've brought this over from the Lucifer Community page - cos it's driving me mad having to break it up and others might want a say. It's in response to Julian (S4) and Finch in the ariaadagio fic.

    Re Julian: I have to admit, I can't work up much sympathy for him but I get your point. I've just read this line in Castaways: "He's the walking talking wrath of God, Maze said, and in this moment, Chloe believes it".
    1. We know (according to Amen) that God wants Lucifer back in Hell. Why? Is God punishing Lucifer for rebelling or does he want Lucifer to oversee the punishment of others (in effect, enact God's will for him)? Is Lucifer therefore, "God's Wrath"? I'm fairly sure an Old Testament God wouldn't lose much sleep over Julian's punishment (given he was quite happy to send the flood). Do we have two different ideas of God - God's wrath (or an OT God) vs a NT God (God Johnson?), a forgiving God (why is God Johnson called Johnson - son of John?).

    I've just read the third story again. I'm presuming Lucifer punishes Finch with Finch's own devices? If so, what it reminds me of is "an eye for an eye..." (Exodus 21-24, Leviticus 24:19-21). From Leviticus: "And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him; breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again. And he that killeth a beast, he shall restore it: and he that killeth a man, he shall be put to death." Biblical scholars generally interpret "eye for eye," which was derived from the ancient Babylonian Code of Hammurabi, as a restriction on retaliation for personal injuries — in other words, only an eye for an eye. https://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-...e-verse-221954

    So...it seems to me that Lucifer's "punishment" (whipping) of Finch is justified by the OT (L:"I do believe in just desserts"). However, is breaking Finch's clavicle justified? Is that in excess of "the Law", of what's permitted? "And Lucifer sneers, listening to the man endure what he deserves. Some of what he deserves, anyway". Is that to satisfy Lucifer's own desire? Is Lucifer as bad as Finch? I've just remembered - the women Julian was trafficking were hobbled - they couldn't run away. Julian can't run away (which is what he was doing) once Lucifer cripples him. Is this "eye for eye"? Jacob's punishment of Sam followed the OT logic. (Jacob was an OT patriarch). Or did Lucifer break Julian's back because he felt guilty about Joan?

    As for people thinking OT logic is cool: “Well, I think many. I mean, you know, when we get into the Bible, I think many. So many,” he responded. “And some people—look, an eye for an eye, you can almost say that. That’s not a particularly nice thing. But you know, if you look at what’s happening to our country, I mean, when you see what’s going on with our country, how people are taking advantage of us, and how they scoff at us and laugh at us.”…“And they laugh at our face, and they’re taking our jobs, they’re taking our money, they’re taking the health of our country,” he continued. “And we have to be firm and have to be very strong. And we can learn a lot from the Bible, that I can tell you.”
    Guess who this is? Clue - it's too long for a tweet.

    To go back to God Johnson. "According to the New Testament, John [the Baptist] anticipated a messianic figure greater than himself and Christians commonly refer to John as the precursor or forerunner of Jesus". So Jesus is - in effect - John's son? So Johnson was not "God" but "God made man" (Jesus)? He did give all his money to the poor. I'd also want to equate Father Frank with St Francis. Significantly, it's "Prayer to St Francis" that's playing at the end of Grave in S6 BtVS.

    Oh…and Lucifer discusses the etymology of John in Castaways: He shrugs. "That's what Ivan means. God's grace. It's the Russian derivative of the Greek name Ioannes — you would say John in English — and that is the derivative of the Hebrew Johanan. Meaning Yahweh is gracious. Which he's bloody well nnn—" His eyes widen, and he grinds to a halt, his teeth pinched together around the letter n, which was clearly supposed to bloom into the word "not." A frustrated syllable gets caught in his throat. "Apologies," he adds sibilantly, the word both strained and restrained, like he wants to finish his diatribe against God so badly that he's almost suffering apoplexy in his effort not to. "I …. Apologies."

    Fun this.... Sigh...perhaps not as much fun as sexy pictures of TE.

    Oh yessss.....

    Can I say, I want to have ... a nice little talk with him? Don't tell my hubby...

    flow
    I won't tell your hubby...can't vouch for the rest of the internet though. You could buy him a Prada suit to compensate. Don't tell him the Devil wears it.

    Just thought (and yeah...I started my fifth rewatch last night). We start off with Delilah (OT) with Chloe taking over her role (she weakens Lucifer) and we culminate the series with Luci's self-sacrifice (and the saving of a baby boy) - NT.

    I'm also thinking end of NFA - Spike saves the baby. Angel wants to kill the dragon. The Devil's often portrayed as a Dragon. Damn...I knew bloody Angel couldn't be trusted!
    Last edited by TriBel; 07-08-19 at 10:28 AM.

  25. #57
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    My marital re-watch (my second one) is slowing down a bit therefore I have just started another re-watch (my third) on my own.

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    Good...Lucifer's far more important than wedlock. I'm halfway through S2 (he's just killed Uriel the accountant). I'm lying to the kids about watching it again. I had to watch a couple of episodes of American Gods and buy a Pedro Almodóvar DVD to throw them off the scent. I think they're suspicious - they offered to buy me Captain Marvel to help me withdraw. I refused the offer.

    It just gets funnier and better the more I watch. I could go back and keep you company?

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    I am in the middle of season 3 on my marital rewatch (my secon rewatch) and in the middle of season 1 on my third rewatch and I am beginning to understand what you mean about Lucifer becoming more camp in the later seasons. He appears to be much more stiff and formal in season 3. It's already there at the start of the season but it's even getting worse. His casual evilness, his boyish enthusiasm, his 12-year-old-ness is suddenly gone, as is some of his savoir vivre. He still wears Prada suits but not with the same happy and carefree attitude. Maybe mortality is taking a toll on him - lol.

    Did he keep the diamonds he took from Evil Lopez?

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    Did he keep the diamonds he took from Evil Lopez?
    D'you know - I've no idea. Don't ask me about the subtler plot points - I can't remember the big ones!

    Re: the change in character - it's definitely there but I've never given a great deal of thought to why.

    a) The obvious is that humanity/Chloe is rubbing off on him.
    b) He has his angel wings and no devil face. We know this is his own doing - the manifestation (or otherwise) is down to his own sub/unconscious. Angels are "boring" - Amenadiel and Remi are boring - ie. very straight laced, formal, morally upright etc. In short, he's also becoming more angelic. The most youthful angel is Azrael and she spent a lot of time around a young Ella*
    c) He's lost his mum, he's alienated from his dad. In effect, he's "orphaned" and he's had to "grow up" (cw Buffy after Joyce dies).

    It's kinda interesting that when he's trying to avoid being The Angel of San Bernardino he reverts to childish behaviour. Similarly, when he's trying to prove he's a "bad boyfriend", too devilish, no responsibility, he behaves like a teenager. In both cases he's associated with traditional signs of masculinity. He's a "bad" man. In the episode with God Johnson, we have the association with the childhood myth of Santa but Santa's killing both mothers and fathers and symbols of authority.

    S4 "folds" back on S1 - there's a repetition of walking out of a burning building (the first carrying Chloe - the second alone). In S1, Chloe reads it as a sign of his humanity, in S4 as a sign of him being demonic. In S1, an Angel tells him to go home, in S4 it's a demon who requests it. In S1, the streets of LA are full of fantasized beings, in S4 it's actual demons. In S1/2 he has his face but no wings. In S3 he has wings but no face. In S4, it's a full body transformation - he's fully both Angel and Devil and he's taken on his full responsibilities. I think the Lucifer we see on the throne is the "complete" Luci (minus Chloe but with her love).

    (re Ella's name - all the angels have names that end with "el" - which I think is Hebrew for strength, might, of God. Ella's name begins with it. Also, her surname's a common one but it means "son of the wolf". There's a "Wolf God" (Fenris) in the comics (I mention this because I think Luci is possessed by Fenris and kills Michael). Dan's the only other one with a name that ends with "el" and Lucifer always refers to him as Daniel (just as he always refers to Ella as Miss Lopez - "daughter of the wolf?). Daniel means "God (El) is my judge" (we have the episode when Luci's trying to behave like Dan. Dan also sleeps with Luci's mum). His surname is a noble Spanish name that derives from "thorns". Cain insults him by getting his name wrong. Why is Cain called Marcus Pierce?

    I dunno...I'm making all this up...but there's a reason I'm on my 5th rewatch.

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