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Thread: Respectful interaction

  1. #21
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    I have to admit that I think I lost respect for this forum and I think It's time to leave. I was going to leave a long time ago if it wasn't for the recent activity in the fan art section.

    I just don't like the fact that my feelings just got pushed to the side. Asking flow not to create this thread just dismissing my feelings. Personally, no one would have created a thread the incident he insulted and mocked my dyslexia. And I tell you now THAT'S a lot worse in my opinion than the group bitch. That's bullying. Making someone feel so low in my self-esteem. Yeah but that's okay right he said it to my face.

    And also I don't like the fact that I get called her in the other section of the forum. I don't know if that's a mock. So I'm not coming back. You can find me on my Tumblr.

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    "Other section"?

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    There was always the risk that speaking about these things could intensity feelings of frustration and I would like to encourage anyone to talk privately if they prefer or just take a break and then please do consider returning. I honestly think the fact that this board has historically had a range of fans of varying preferences or inclinations (fanfic/fanart too) was a wonderful strength of the community and would love to see more people here and greater diversity rather than losing anyone.

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    bespangled, I genuinely really appreciate your post. I went to bed last night taking some small comfort in finally getting this off my chest but I was unsure as to what response I'd wake up to. To be honest, I had kind of prepared for the worst but you've proven me wrong. The thing I've taken most from this is that by understanding the context behind what you said, why you said it, what you meant by it, and the things you were going through at the time, has allowed me to not only forgive and forget but to reassess the situation with a greater understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by bespangled View Post
    This is about context for me. As I am the person who went to the Spuffy group to let people know that another popular Spike centered episode was being voted down, I need to say that the congratulatory meme was a very big part of why I saw the game as us vs them. On the very first page Klaus directed a meme of handshaking to you and dipstick. He said the game was competitive between groups, and gave no indication that he understood when Stoney asked him to regard this as a cooperative game. Neither did you or dipstick, as recipients.
    In hindsight I probably didn't handle this as well as I could. From memory, I thought it was best to just ignore it all in hopes that we'd all move past it more quickly. I also thought that since I didn't post anything myself I didn't really have anything to answer for but, admittedly, that was naive of me as my "thanks" on Klaus post, whilst meant with no ill-intent, was probably perceived badly. I can understand that by remaining silent I probably gave a different impression.

    I believe you when you say there were no coordinated decisions in voting, but it really appeared to me at the time that there was coordination that I wanted to counter. Because Klaus never actually acknowledged that the game should be cooperative I took at face value the notion the game was still seen as competitive.
    That's fair.

    You're right, there were tensions all along. My perception was that several times Spike heavy episodes were being voted out simply because they were Spike heavy. That impression was solidified by some strong anti-Spike comments. I was upset by this. It seemed petty and ridiculous - a way to drive a good game into the ground. I didn't mind losing on an episode. What bothered me was the lack of thoughtful critique, and the stated prejudice. I felt that once again something nice was being spoiled by spike haters. (Yes, BB has always been part of how I react on this board. Our past is what shapes us.)
    I think our past experiences in fandom have definitely made us come to blows here. In the past whenever I critiqued Spike/Spuffy in anyway I tended to have a lot of Spike/Spuffy fans overreact and accuse me of hating Spike/Spuffy. Ironically, these constant accusations and overreactions did actually colour my view of Spike/Spuffy and ruin the ship for me for some time. There was a period of time where I did dislike it because fandom had completely stained the relationship for me whenever I watched it. Thankfully, I got past that and for many years I felt pretty zen and neutral to all of Buffy's ships. It did feel like what was happening on these boards was starting to set things back for me a bit in that respect. Whilst you are on edge due to prejudices you've experienced in the past, I was on edge because I've had a history of Spuffy fans (not just Spuffy fans but if I'm being honest, mainly Spuffy fans) accusing me of being a "hater" whenever I was remotely critical of it. I think it was sort of a recipe for disaster and it was inevitable that we'd clash.

    I was the one who went to the group where the Spike fans would be found. I shouldn't have, but I did see the game as having sides. I had just had a pretty heavy argument with dipstick who insisted Spike should have been staked in season 6 or 7, and that having a soul didn't mean redemption. He insisted that Buffy should never have forgiven him, and that soul made no difference. What I wrote was on point. I never mentioned you or anyone by name in regard to the voting. I simply asked if anyone was interested in balancing out the anti-Spike votes. Again, I knew these were anti Spike because I was flat out told this was true in the thread. I honestly haven't really considered you as anti-Spike for a long time. You have more nuanced positions than that.
    This surprises me as whilst I know that Dipstick isn't interested in Spike I've never heard her make such comments. I'm not accusing you of lying by the way, I'm just expressing my surprise, but I'm also weary of discussing this too much without Dipstick here to offer her side of the story. What I can say is that, that was your experience and I don't doubt it. I did read your comment as a blanket comment against myself, Dipstick and Klaus, but I appreciate I was wrong about that and there was miscommunication on our part. I'm glad you understand that I don't hate Spike.

    Honestly, if I had just read comments from you asking others to join the game I wouldn't have cared at all. I had kind of naturally assumed that was happening anyway long before I stumbled upon the Spuffy Group. I was hurt over the anti-Spike comments and the accusations that I was part of a plan to coordinate attacks on other episodes because it was also tied in with this belief that I was deliberately out to get certain people and counter their votes. I felt like they were really unfair and obviously untrue accusations and it stung. But I can understand that you could have made that assumption given how similarly us 3 were posting for the most part.

    I reacted in the moment, and I should have thought it through. But I was also kind of an emotional mess. My mother died about 3 weeks before, and I was running on some heavy emotion. So there's every chance I would have still posted the call to arms. The game was a diversion, and I needed diversion.
    I'm really, really sorry to hear about your mother. I offer my condolences. It certainly gives context to a lot of the things that happened at that time and it's completely understandable. It's served as an important reminder for me to not jump to vilifying people. We really don't know what's going on in each other's lives or what's causing us to act out sometimes.

    Reread the thread and you will see that it immediately became about a personal attack on another member and the fact that she was no longer going to the main board.
    Yes I did consider mentioning that but I felt that my other post was already so long already that I thought it may distract from my point. If it's any consolation, despite our differences I have received pretty much the exact same PM from that person before as well. I was pretty f**king ruthless in my response to them and I don't condone what they said or did at all. I also know that Dipstick has received a similar PM from them too and also put them on blast. So whilst we all may view the show quite differently from one another we can all relate to experiencing that. It's something, right?

    Any remarks I made about other posters were made in the context of her attack. Unless you had something to do with the attacks they were not in any way referencing you. She was feeling vulnerable, and ready to leave the board. My concern was for her, and for the messages someone was deliberately sending her.
    That's understandable. And as I said above, I had nothing to do with that. I want to make that abundantly clear. Both myself and Dipstick talked about what we had read at the time and we both had received similar PM's in the past from that user. They're notorious for it and it's certainly not just directed at Spuffy fans.

    Rereading this thread, there is actually a lot of thoughtful discussion about making the board better. One idea discussed was having a thread about the tensions on the board. I was for that but others felt it wasn't a good idea.
    It's a pity that we didn't do it at the time as I think a lot of this could have been resolved by now. But oh well, better late than never!

    I started losing faith in the board. My mother had died just before Xmas, only a few week before this implosion, and I just didn't need the drama. I had already seen this happen in multiple fan settings. I felt bad that I was the one who initiated the thread, but I felt worse because it looked like this board was about to devolve because of it. I started spending a lot less time here.

    I was also upset that the game itself was being cancelled. I thought there were other ways of dealing with the problem of hurt feelings. I suggested a thread like this back in that Spuffy group thread before this even happened. Burying frustrations, in my experience, leads to explosions eventually.
    Again, I am truly sorry about your mother. I get it a lot more now. When I shut down the thread that may have seem a little excessive but I was really, really hurt. It actually surprised me how much it hurt. I'm usually pretty chill about fandom and don't let it effect me too much but, I don't know, honestly, it felt like a bit of a betrayal. I felt like an idiot for opening a game with the intention of having fun with everyone - Spuffy fans included - and then I felt like I was made to be an absolute idiot when I saw the discussion. I'd actually been planning that game for quite some time when I came up with the idea for the episode number vs episode number format (as opposed to the formats we'd been playing previously when it was season vs season) and I was really excited to participate. So it just gutted me to see that and in my hurt I shut it down because I did feel really let down and betrayed. Normally I'd just post something and stop playing but in my anger I just wanted to end it all.

    I didn't see most of what you quoted in the elimination threads. Most of what I read was about a personal attack on a member of Ihe group, and ways to take care of the schism that was becoming more toxic. Ironically we were worried the the board would become like BB. In trying to avoid that we probably nudged it closer - not an unusual occurrence. But I'm sure there were plenty of threads where people vented their frustrations. Either way, I'm sorry about what you read - it must have felt awful
    Apology accepted. You've provided greater context for a lot of the things that were said and I'm taking that on board. Whilst I still would have preferred some things hadn't been said, I think there was a lot of miscommunication on both sides. I think we had a tendency to assume the worst about each other.

    I was never asked to refrain from agreeing with you or thanking you, nor would I have done it. Overall I like your posts, and I know I have thanked you and you have thanked me. If someone had asked me to I would have been more likely to thank you more often. It's childish and petty.
    I appreciate that and I like your posts too.

    Understand that my experience over at BB was really fairly traumatic. If you dismiss it, then you'll miss the point of why I reacted as I did - including almost leaving here. All of the mods over there at that time admitted to loathing Spuffy, and Spike fans. Two of them hated Spike. There were constant attacks on people for being Spike fans - I had people explain how horrible Spike fans were and why they weren't welcome on the board. There were constant open attacks on members, on threads that were positive about Spike. It was ugly, and I stuck it out because I had friends there. I probably stayed for too long. This did affect what I thought I was seeing in the game. You did peg it - exactly why I assumed what I assumed

    What you experienced, reading what you did, had to be difficult. I'm sorry for that. I know it would have both hurt me, and made me angry. But there were no open attacks on you, at least. There was thoughtless, mean spirited gossip, and I am sorry that happened. I am really sorry if I hurt you with anything I said.
    Fair enough. Honestly, I'm not lying when I said that I had my doubts because of what had happened over the game. I thought there was a level of denial from people in regards to their own behaviour and how it could be perceived so I assumed from that, that there was probably more to the story on Buffy-Boards too. I thought that maybe people weren't honest about instigating some of the fighting too. However, I will fess up to disbelieving you also out of spite and I apologise for that. I was still hurting and I knew it would irritate you for me to disagree or cast doubts about what went on there, so I did. That was wrong and childish of me and I apologise.

    There are times when I have enjoyed arguing with you, and times when I hated it. But you have never bored me. you've made me think - redefine, flip my lens - you've given me insights. I can be pretty acerbic as well so we're well matched there. In a lot of ways we're alike when we argue. So, I particularly like it when we conversate.
    Thank you! I enjoy reading your posts too. Truth to be told, even when we don't agree I'm still always very eager to read your posts because they always have something interesting to say. Your posts are certainly never boring and they're a fun and often very insightful and enlightening read. The fact that our personalities are probably so similar is probably why we do sometimes clash as well. But despite our differences when it comes to BtVS/AtS I have never had any doubts that in regards to 'life stuff' we're probably actually very similar. You sent me a really nice message once in regards to a post I made talking about my experiences as a gay person and I really never have forgotten that even when I've been angry.

    Honestly, I hope this clears the air. I'm less courteous than some people here. Maybe it's the southwestern dislike for beating around the bush. But I don't want to hurt feelings or stifle discussion. I don't ship Spuffy, although I like the pairing and the Spuffy fans. But this place would be damn dull if was all agreed. If anything I think we can use a broader variety of fans.

    If I ever piss you off then feel free to pm me and call me an *******.
    It definitely clears the air for me. I can honestly say that the anger I was holding on to has gone. I was really unsure what kind of response I was going to get but this was such a nice post to read and I'm really grateful we can clear the air and reach a better understanding of one another. And i hope that can extend to others on the forums too.
    - "The earth is doomed" -


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    No, Stoney, I am not taking a break I am actually leaving again you just dismissed my feelings and said I have to do them through PM but, on the previous page everyone was expressing their feelings and that's what I thought this thread was about? So why do I have to resolve my feeling through PM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by buffylover View Post
    No, Stoney, I am not taking a break I am actually leaving again you just dismissed my feelings and said I have to do them through PM but, on the previous page everyone was expressing their feelings and that's what I thought this thread was about? So why do I have to resolve my feeling through PM?
    Sorry buffylover that was most definitely not my intention. I was talking generally rather than directing my post to you as I didn't think that you would be returning to the thread going from what you had said in your previous post. So my comment was a general post to any board members that might be reading and have issues that they didn't want to raise in public on the thread, not that I thought you personally shouldn't continue to do so if you wanted. As I said, I'd like to see the board get stronger not lose people.

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    buffylover, I had noticed that you have advised me to leave things be and not open a new thread as that might lead to even more hostility. I might just say that other people also have voiced a similar opinion. I did not think that it was your personal wish to not have this thread. I was regarding it as an advice which was justified and which I have taken into consideration. I decided to still open this thread because there were reasons that - to me simply outweighed the risk of more hostility being spread. It was not meant to dismiss your advice for which I am thankful.

    As for the use of he or she - I don't always look at other users profiles. Sometimes I just assume that a certain user is female or male. Sometimes I have looked it up on the profile but don't recall it correctly. It has happened to me in the past that I have wrongly used a he or a she for a member of this forum. It hasn't been done with any mean intent or intent at all. Adressing another user correctly is part of respectful interaction. I will keep this in mind for the future and be more carful or check twice with the users profile.

    flow

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    I just want to say, directly to buffylover, that I hope you don't leave, that I've really enjoyed meeting you, and the art section would be dead without you. You've helped me so much with my art and I really appreciate everything you've done. I fully understand your feelings and I will of course support any decision you make

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I just want to say, directly to buffylover, that I hope you don't leave, that I've really enjoyed meeting you, and the art section would be dead without you. You've helped me so much with my art and I really appreciate everything you've done. I fully understand your feelings and I will of course support any decision you make
    Buffylover - can I just second this remark please?

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    Wow, people leaving a forum because of disagreements over SHIPS (& other). This seems eerily familiar...

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    OMG! WOW! thank you so much Priceless and Tribel!

    I have decided it was very foolish of me leaving and I don't want to give that user satisfaction. I'm just going to go online when I have updates of my artwork. I feel like I'm never wanted on that side so I'm just going to stay away from it. It's for the best really. I can express the love of Buffy through my creativity. But for the time being, I'm just going to have a little break. I'll just realise that I do have friends on here.

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    I do just want to mention before I leave this thread that when I've referred to bad blood in the past or tension I have not ever been referring to SpuffyGlitz. I do not wish for any ambiguity about that and I just want to ensure that is very clear. SpuffyGlitz has always been very respectful, pleasant and kind to me and I'd hate for there to be any speculation that it has ever been anything but that.

    Thanks for those that reached out and on my part, I'm also sorry for any animosity. Hopefully we can put things behind us and move on.
    - "The earth is doomed" -


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    Quote Originally Posted by buffylover View Post
    OMG! WOW! thank you so much Priceless and Tribel!

    I have decided it was very foolish of me leaving and I don't want to give that user satisfaction. I'm just going to go online when I have updates of my artwork. I feel like I'm never wanted on that side so I'm just going to stay away from it. It's for the best really. I can express the love of Buffy through my creativity. But for the time being, I'm just going to have a little break. I'll just realise that I do have friends on here.
    Your contributions to the fanart would definitely be deeply missed buffylover, you have provided so much inspiration and guidance over the years to myself and other new fanartists. But I will be sorry if you feel that the fanart is the only place that you can participate as we are talking a lot all the time at the moment about increasing participation and getting a variety of people active across the board. I remember us having a disagreement once in the past about Joyce and in the end agreeing that sometimes tone can be difficult to gauge through written exchanges, particularly when it isn't your first language and it is easy to become defensively aggressive with each other through misinterpreting/misunderstanding. I would like to think that if we had a similar situation again that we can address it calmly together and that you will continue to participate in other areas too once more when you feel ready.

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    Stoney, it's not the language barrier it's my learning difficulties.

    I'm from the Northeast of England.

    Thank you but I'd rather stay away from that side I feel more positive in the art side. I will only contribute to the art side and the games because I like games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buffylover View Post
    Stoney, it's not the language barrier it's my learning difficulties.

    I'm from the Northeast of England.
    Sorry I'm obviously mixing conversations, my memory can be a chaotic muddle at times, apologies.

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    Stoney that absolutely fine!

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