Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Modified Boyfriends

  1. #1
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,551
    Thanks
    9,664
    Thanked 8,434 Times in 4,066 Posts

    Default Modified Boyfriends

    Listening to Conversations With Dead People and the guest Mary Ellen Iatropoulos suggests that all Buffy's boyfriends had some sort of behaviour modification story. Angel's what the curse, both Riley and Spike had a chip and Riley had been drugged by the army.

    Parker was the only one of Buffy's sexual relationships/boyfriends that did not have any modification to his personality. There was no metaphor about him, he was just a jerk.

    So all of Buffy's boyfriends were modified in some way. When they lost their modifications, (soul, army supplied drugs) they were not able to continue the relationship with Buffy.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    a thing of evil (19-05-19),HowiMetdaSlayer (19-05-19),Stoney (19-05-19),thenewbuzwuzz (19-05-19)

  3. #2
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    8,239
    Thanks
    11,280
    Thanked 13,425 Times in 5,565 Posts

    Default

    That doesn't really fit with Spike's story though as the loss of the chip working on Buffy wasn't actually what stopped their relationship and the chip being removed eventually wasn't a breaking point but arguably a strengthening one. I do see the link of there being something affecting them all in their relationships with her and that there was a link to how things develop. In many ways a notion of making a choice and taking action for yourself possibly links to solving the problems. Spike and Buffy's relationship changes/moves forward when he finds a way to affect his behaviour/choices more definitively himself. Riley chooses to leave and become a soldier with his own mission again and Angel makes a choice to do a similar thing and find his own path. Generally the show does promote choices and actions coming proactively rather than reactively and that does seem to go with the kind of observations this seems to be considering perhaps.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (19-05-19),thenewbuzwuzz (19-05-19),TimeTravellingBunny (19-05-19)

  5. #3
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1,084
    Thanks
    1,326
    Thanked 1,838 Times in 721 Posts

    Default

    At the end of the day Buffy's boyfriends are the same character. Angel, Riley and Spike are basically elaborate palette swaps. Obviously, they feature the same tropes, story lines, similar scenes, rehashed lines of dialog etc. This is why, I think, the shipping wars in Buffy fandom are so incredibly caustic and insane - you can't realistically compare those characters, make value judgements and so on when there's so little that differs them.

  6. #4
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    8,239
    Thanks
    11,280
    Thanked 13,425 Times in 5,565 Posts

    Default

    I don't think that's true any more than saying that Willow and Xander are too similar as friends or Wes and Giles as watchers or Buffy and Faith as slayers. Angel, Spike and Riley are very different characters to my eye with different backgrounds and personalities. I actually think the strengths they have in their relationships with Buffy varied, as did the reasons why they parted (as and when they did). If some of the same issues or relationship stages and problems are covered it isn't surprising as relationships often go through the same challenges, but they weren't limited to just repetition I don't think. Well it never felt that way to me at least. I think the shipping wars are so unpleasant because of a need people have for their preferences to prevail and/or in some meaningful way surpass the others, rather than accepting the positives and merits of the different relationships, the barriers that were featured.

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    Alce (19-05-19),GoSpuffy (20-05-19),thenewbuzwuzz (19-05-19),TimeTravellingBunny (19-05-19)

  8. #5
    Scooby Gang HowiMetdaSlayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    oHIo
    Posts
    407
    Thanks
    263
    Thanked 687 Times in 345 Posts

    Default

    Parker needed a modification of his personality.

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to HowiMetdaSlayer For This Useful Post:

    GoSpuffy (20-05-19),Stoney (19-05-19),TimeTravellingBunny (19-05-19),TriBel (19-05-19)

  10. #6
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,551
    Thanks
    9,664
    Thanked 8,434 Times in 4,066 Posts

    Default

    I think with Spike, the chip was the first modifier, the soul the second. It's not that the modifiers are good or bad. If anything, the modifiers made each of those characters better. The curse/soul made Angel better, Riley fell apart once he no longer had the drugs making him strong, and the chip/soul made Spike a better person. It was the modifiers that made all three men more acceptable to Buffy. Riley's modifier didn't stick, and maybe he's have been a better fit for Buffy if it had and he didn't feel so weak.

  11. #7
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,852
    Thanks
    4,864
    Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,166 Posts

    Default

    Does Buffy count as modified? Just asking for a friend who might or might not be interested.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (19-05-19)

  13. #8
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,551
    Thanks
    9,664
    Thanked 8,434 Times in 4,066 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    Does Buffy count as modified? Just asking for a friend who might or might not be interested.
    She didn't mention Buffy in that context and I wouldn't like to say. Here's the podcast if anyone would like to listen . . .

    https://conswithdead.podbean.com/

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (19-05-19)

  15. #9
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,481
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 1,703 Times in 823 Posts

    Default

    Riley was on superserum. His personality wasn't modified.

    I mean, I guess it's true, but you might as well say Willow's SO's were modified (werewolf, witch, slayer).

  16. #10
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,551
    Thanks
    9,664
    Thanked 8,434 Times in 4,066 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Riley was on superserum. His personality wasn't modified.

    I mean, I guess it's true, but you might as well say Willow's SO's were modified (werewolf, witch, slayer).
    It's only a small distinction and I'm only putting this out here as a devils advocate, but Oz and Kennedy were only modified after Willow started dating them.

  17. #11
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,852
    Thanks
    4,864
    Thanked 4,951 Times in 2,166 Posts

    Default

    Hardly There

    Riley was on superserum. His personality wasn't modified.
    Is that right (genuine question)? Does the text support the idea of an inherent personality or is personality something that's contextual/environmental? What matters more when it comes to personality, nature or nurture (Tabula Rasa)?

    a thing of evil:

    At the end of the day Buffy's boyfriends are the same character. Angel, Riley and Spike are basically elaborate palette swaps. Obviously, they feature the same tropes, story lines, similar scenes, rehashed lines of dialog etc.
    Angel - daddy raised; Spike - mummy raised; Riley (and I'm talking about Walsh) raised by a mummy who wanted to be a daddy. That's the fundamental difference. Never has Freud been so over-simplified (except by Holden Webster).

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    bespangled (20-05-19),GoSpuffy (20-05-19),Priceless (20-05-19)

  19. #12
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,481
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 1,703 Times in 823 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    It's only a small distinction and I'm only putting this out here as a devils advocate, but Oz and Kennedy were only modified after Willow started dating them.
    And Buffy wasn't aware Riley or Angel were modified before she started having an interest. I don't know. I suppose it's true, but it's about as much of an observation is they all have hair on their heads but none on the chest.

    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    Hardly There



    Is that right (genuine question)? Does the text support the idea of an inherent personality or is personality something that's contextual/environmental? What matters more when it comes to personality, nature or nurture (Tabula Rasa)?
    I'm a little sketchy on the definition of modified, I guess. Both Angel and Spike had things done to them specifically designed to modify their behaviors, while Riley is just on performance-enhancing drugs. To include him in the group, the meaning would have to be different than the norm, which opens up the classification pretty wide. They're all modified in some way.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to HardlyThere For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (20-05-19)

  21. #13
    Scooby Gang
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    543
    Thanks
    821
    Thanked 352 Times in 163 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HowiMetdaSlayer View Post
    Parker needed a modification of his personality.
    But we were quite happy with a modification to his jaw, courtesy of Riley.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •