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Thread: Are We Friends?/Just A Summer Romance by slaymesoftly starting on 26th April 2019

  1. #21
    Scooby Gang SpuffyGlitz's Avatar
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    Ah, ASH might have been pulling JM's leg then, he apparently guided him to say "ass" instead of "arse" in WML and JM ended up doing it that way.
    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffyGlitz View Post
    Ah, ASH might have been pulling JM's leg then, he apparently guided him to say "ass" instead of "arse" in WML and JM ended up doing it that way.
    Can you remember the context of the line it was in reference to because if he meant ass like a donkey ('I feel like an ass') that would be different to referencing your posterior with ass or arse. It could also have been something that ASH suggested because JM was struggling to get the accent right for saying 'arse' so ASH suggested ass as a safer alternative. I don't know. But my hubby has commented that JM says bastards with an American accent, so there were some gaps.

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  4. #23
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    Oh, I was wrong. It's not from WML. It's the scene from Innocence when Spike is getting irate and impatient with Judge.

    Spike: (rolls his eyes) Yeah. (turns and wheels over to him) It's
    interesting to me that 'preparing' looks a great bit like sitting on
    your ass. (facing him) When do we destroy the world already?

    Judge: My strength grows, and with every life I take it will increase
    further.
    It's quite probable that ASH might have felt JM wouldn't pronounce arse correctly and felt this would be better. Or JM said it wrong and blamed ASH lol. I'm never entirely trustful of JM's accounts - it was a quote from JM, not ASH I think.
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    On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. -- Roy



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    I'm just getting started but I had to google "British drawl" which really just means speaking slowly with long drawn out vowels which Spike was want to do on occasion....I mean really, can you say "drama queen"?

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic.../english/drawl

    But the main reason I googled was I remembered this story being in the news http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/201...ritish-english which stated Americans from the Deep South (and eastern Canada) kept the 1800s English alive more accurately than those in England who were more influenced by larger population contaminations.

    So I accept "British drawl" as a thing. But as a Canadian I apologize for my acceptance because you know, we're polite like that.
    Last edited by GoSpuffy; 17-04-19 at 05:23 PM.


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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    Apology accepted

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Apology accepted
    No...it isn't. Is West Country a drawl? God...I'd love to hear Spike sound Gloucester or Somerset! Cider not Whisky. Geordie - wouldn't need his big coat! Scouse...the stereotype dictates he'd be nicking hubcaps not knickers. Manc...he'd have to replace the duster with a parka. Midlands...he'd be calling everyone "duck".

    Spike - if he came from the Potteries.

    'Ah do, ow at, at owe rate?' - "Hello, how are you? Are you alright?"
    'Dust want a paynt?' - "Do you want a pint of beer?"
    'Ast got thee Oatckes?' - "Have you got your oatcakes?"
    'Way anner!' - We have not!
    Cost kick a bow agen' a woe, an y'ed it til it bosts?' "Can you kick a ball against a wall and head it until it bursts?"
    'Ast goin up Anley Duck?' - Are you going to Hanley dear?
    'Ast bin owready' - I've been already"
    'Ast chewin th fat owd un?' - "Are you moaning my friend?"
    'Thay't a narky wench!' - "You're a miserable young woman!"
    'Mar lady is a rayt nosey parker!' - my wife is really nosey!"

    TBH, I was surprised to find other countries didn't have the spread of accents/dialects we have in the UK (some estimates put it at 100 +). I just presumed it was a "thing" everywhere. Germany might have it...I'm fairly sure there's a difference between the Hunsruck and Munich (for example).
    Last edited by TriBel; 17-04-19 at 09:20 AM.

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  12. #27
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    I just noticed the date, so I'm popping on my thoughts of the stories...

    The shifts from canon characterisation were big imo and weren't explained or earned within the story itself. The story just presented these differing versions of the characters and then showed the creation of an alternate dynamic for the period it was set in. Some of the main events in the first fic - Buffy beating up Spike, when she offered her blood, the sex/attempted claim - also felt quite sudden in the story itself too. Even accepting the characters themselves were very different to canon, they weren't built up to. It was a quick easy read, but the shifts were substantial and weren't ones I'd wish for either character personally.

    There was more to the sequel, unsurprising as it was a much longer story, but it was still light on wider storylines giving character exploration through additional plot elements. It again just revolved around the newly forming dynamic established between Buffy and Spike as they/it were introduced from the first fic. I suppose you could argue that her changing relationship with Riley was a plot point, but that was minimal really. The LA trip and claim were the main story points as I remember. I'm not anti claims in stories personally, so that didn't bother me like I know it does some people. It was what most of the uncertainty hung around and though it was pretty predictable I was fine with it being part of the story.

    I do tend to get bored by extensive sex scenes and the corny lines you get in them and in these I gave a specific eye roll to sex beginning with Spike asking to be let in/Buffy inviting him in. The scoobies were basically absent throughout and Giles/Joyce written to be accepting of the relationship. Spike's past was ignored, his soullessness dismissed as he was idealised and the whole thing was pretty easy really. It felt that the ready acceptances were likely in great part to emphasise the negatives around Riley's responses/behaviour.

    I was surprised by how little I enjoyed these as I'm pretty sure this writer is one I have read a lot of the stories of and I generally don't continue reading other fics by writers I haven't enjoyed. But they were light reads and reading in the group and talking about stories always makes me consider them more critically than I ever would have before. These will have been ones I read when first looking at fanfic too and I think it probably just shows how my expectations and wants from fanfics have shifted after reading so many. These definitely fit with other stories I've reread which have exposed how much I have come to appreciate canon compatibility in fics (characterisation especially). And I know I used to be far less bothered by vastly altered characterisation and tended to always be more interested in the general story and happy to go with the flow of general shifts/tangents off from earlier seasons. I think I can be less bothered by bigger characterisation swings if there's more happening alongside seeing the alternate characters and/or relationship dynamic and there wasn't enough else plot-wise in this for me any more perhaps. I still found some entertainment/interest in reconsidering again how someone chose to imagine everything to be so very different. I'd be interested to reread others of the same author's to see if I felt the same.

    I'm aware I've ended up sounding incredibly negative. As I said, they are easy reads and I don't tend to think as much about them when I'm just reading and not putting my thoughts together about them. This is a writer I've read plenty of so I must have enjoyed them more in the past. To not be entirely negative, I'll end on what I did enjoy. I liked the date/LA trip and the inclusion of a familial bond between Angel and Spike the most.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ooo, I just remembered that flow stopped reading it, interested to hear why???
    Last edited by Stoney; 26-04-19 at 05:56 PM.

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    As Stoney says, Buffy and Spike start the fic as friends, they bump into each other and go slaying together and it's fun and their relationship grows. Spike even helps Buffy with her poetry classes. Buffy appears quite childish and Spike is very much the gentleman. It felt like two teen friends who's relationship changes from friendship to romance. They agree to go clubbing together, for which Buffy seems incredibly grateful. I wasn't a fan of the '**** teasing bitch' line and Buffy worrying she'd lead him on, or all the guilt she supposedly felt.

    It was a simple, easy to read fic. I felt neither Buffy or Spike were particularly in character, but that was okay. I haven't read the follow up yet, but hopefully will do by tomorrow.

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    I suppose that is true, they do present a sense of development over the summer from slaying buddies to romance, but it comes from nowhere really against canon. They're greatly other people from the start and you just roll with the scenario as it unfolds within the story rather than seeing it built from the show, if that makes sense. It's not surprising when they are so shifted in characterisation. Often when Spike is being idealised Buffy is infantilised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I suppose that is true, they do present a sense of development over the summer from slaying buddies to romance, but it comes from nowhere really against canon. They're greatly other people from the start and you just roll with the scenario as it unfolds within the story rather than seeing it built from the show, if that makes sense. It's not surprising when they are so shifted in characterisation. Often when Spike is being idealised Buffy is infantilised.
    I've read a little of the second fic and I don't think it's for me. Spike is incredibly idealised and Buffy seems to be blamed for everything that's wrong in either of their lives. It's a bit too much for me. Though it's nicely written and an easy read, it's just not my sort of thing.

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    Oops, this was this week! I still haven't got to it and am enjoying Fin Amour... I'll add thoughts later if i do revisit..
    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
    On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. -- Roy



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    So flow, as Stoney said, can you now reveal why you stopped reading?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I've read a little of the second fic and I don't think it's for me. Spike is incredibly idealised and Buffy seems to be blamed for everything that's wrong in either of their lives. It's a bit too much for me. Though it's nicely written and an easy read, it's just not my sort of thing.
    I agree but I saw it through. I'm sure we've commented on this before, but I hardly ever stop reading a story once I've picked it up and not even vaguely skim through to the end. It does happen, on some rare occasions I'm actually offended by the story enough or I've found the writing too difficult to read, but actually just dropping it entirely I really rarely do. I'm often surprised by people saying they just stopped.

    So yes, flow, why??????

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  25. #34
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    Actually Pricey already mentioned it

    As I`ve said before on numerous times (I think) I am hardly ever bothered by any changes an author chooses to make either to canon or characters. I think the only time I really felt bothered, was in a fic, where Spike thought his soul hated him and he choose to get rid of it, without once talking to Buffy about it with whom he was in an established relationship at that time.

    But this fic does not have any alterations I find remotely problematic. Buffy and Spike are both much happier people than they were in canon. They get along easily. The develop a sort a frindship that even allows them to watch tv together, make fun of each other, laugh together, have pillow fights - or whatever it was that led to their sudden physical closeness, which then led to sudden heavy kissage. I can enjoy that a lot and it makes for a reading that is as easy and happy as their relationship is. Especially if the writer is as good as writing as it is the case here.

    I was swallowing hard though, when Spike pushed Buffy`s hand in the direction of his nether regions. To me that`s crossing a huge borderline. And Buffy does the right thing. She gets absolutely mad at Spike and tells him off. Well done Buffy. But then Spike calls her a ****-tease. And that`s a no-go. There is no way this can be excused. A woman is never ever a ****teaser. She isn`t, because a guy`s **** is not her responsibility. You get a hard on? It`s your problem. Deal with it. If I`d had been Buffy, I would probably have staked Spike for that remark. But Buffy blames herself instead. She excuses Spike`s absoluetly inexcusable behaviour with him having feelings for her.

    That was when I stopped reading. I can totally see season 4 Spike behaving the way he did. It was very much in-character for him. But it`s still wrong and it did not get call out as wrong.

    Or did it later? Maybe I missed it because I stopped reading?


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    I was swallowing hard though, when Spike pushed Buffy`s hand in the direction of his nether regions. To me that`s crossing a huge borderline. And Buffy does the right thing. She gets absolutely mad at Spike and tells him off. Well done Buffy. But then Spike calls her a ****-tease. And that`s a no-go. There is no way this can be excused. A woman is never ever a ****teaser. She isn`t, because a guy`s **** is not her responsibility. You get a hard on? It`s your problem. Deal with it. If I`d had been Buffy, I would probably have staked Spike for that remark. But Buffy blames herself instead. She excuses Spike`s absoluetly inexcusable behaviour with him having feelings for her.
    I did wonder, when I read it, if this is the scene that had put you off. I felt exactly the same. It took me a few deep breaths to keep reading to the end. I felt the issue was that Buffy was written as very young, and desperate to please and Spike was written as a teen boy who cannot control himself then blames the girl for his lack of self-control. I wonder if the writer was young when she wrote this?

    The second fic starts out with Buffy blaming herself again, and although Spike reassures her that she's done nothing wrong, it felt like the whole fic was going to be blaming Buffy for one thing or another and I don't want to read that.

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    I didn't feel the fics were blaming Buffy, even though I did think Spike was being idealised and Buffy infantilised. I find that's fairly common in fics set in the earlier seasons and especially when Spike's soullessness is going to be brushed past. I think it happens when a writer is trying to show Spike as being a viable boyfriend soulless and that a natural bond is occurring that Buffy is then nervous about or unsure of pursuing but wants to. The combination creates this dynamic and I don't like the effect on either character. The characterisation shifts to get this relaxed, friendly vibe going where a relationship is going to be made plausible create it in my experience. I think Buffy generally gets the worst, more extreme shifts in early season fics that look to bring them together. They tend to be shifts that aren't positive for her character and weaken her unfortunately as Spike's faults and limitations are smoothed past. These are the kinds of shifts that bothered me less when I first started reading fanfics, but after reading so many where Buffy's morals or her strength of personality/character are diminished for Spike to shine, it gets frustrating. I don't like Spike being made more perfect than he is either to be honest, but it is less grating when you're reading casually and know you prefer the canon journey anyway. I've always enjoyed early season fics for shooting off on tangents before more canon has passed, but characterisation for these changes, most especially where Spike isn't going to need his soul, take the brunt of the damage to do it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just thinking about this, it infantilises them both really as Spike's years of murderous evil are skimmed past for him to become the lovable ex mortal enemy, a bad boy poet in love that just needs to be accepted and he'll give her the world. In striving to brush past his past, his soullessness and year's of experience it reduces his maturity often too, almost turning him into a gauche suitor. His interactions with and acceptance by Joyce often supports this. Treating him like he's an awkward teen following Buffy home and saying 'hello Mrs Summers' as he gazes down respectfully and his voice breaks slightly on her name. But then of course he's the one who becomes comfortable and commanding when they do reach for each other and it gets physical, often patronising Buffy further because of her comparative inexperience as he becomes the irresistible lover that is going to blow her mind. As I said before, the shifts for him are seemingly positive (although shallowing) whereas hers tend to be negative and weaken her character. The extremes that get written in for Buffy at its worst that drive me nuts and I find harder to shrug past have her either accepting him killing or she's weeping all the damn time.

    See I'm saying all that, but if I'm exiting the canon path significantly, I do prefer it being from the earlier seasons.
    Last edited by Stoney; 26-04-19 at 10:00 PM.

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