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Thread: Buffy #4 from Boom

  1. #41
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    The TV show put seasons of work into establishing the characters backgrounds and that knowledge plays into understanding their choices/issues as they develop. To me this seems to be a lot about approaching those existing and understood character beats from different angles, but that knowledge is needed to get the value out of seeing these things reimagined. I don't see how it can be 'more complete' when it needs what was there originally and it is exploring alternate routes from an early point, hence the AU label. It is separate from the original canon for the characters, but yes, I appreciate it isn't intended as a totally new verse.
    Last edited by Stoney; 19-04-19 at 03:22 PM.

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  3. #42
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    I have to be honest and say the Boom! comics probably wouldn't have captured my interest if I wasn't an existing fan. Then again, that's also because I don't normally read American-style comics. I find it difficult to put myself in the shoes of people who do and are new to Buffy.

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  5. #43
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    Stoney, for goodness' sake, you didn't read this thing! How can you even make statements about what it is and what it is not if you're not familiar with it? Sigh. This comic isn't fun because it's a reimagining, it's fun because it's fun - the appeal doesn't come from comparing it to the TV show. It's its own thing.

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    There's no need to get snippy. I'm asking the question to people who have read it and in direct response to a conversation between two people who had who were discussing it in comparison and in light of knowing the original. You're pov is interesting for the same reason I asked theirs.
    Last edited by Stoney; 19-04-19 at 04:41 PM.

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  8. #45
    Scooby Gang Willow from Buffy's Avatar
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    Well, here's an example:

    A person with no exposure to teen dramas may wonder why Cordelia acts like she does in WttH. She seems to be both nice and mean at the same time. Of course, most people have encountered some form bully in their actual life, but that bully may have been very different from Cordelia and could have been more like Larry.

    Everyone that is actually part of the world and consume popular media immediately clocks Cordelia for what she is, because of all the usual textual signs.

    Storytelling is a language, and stories have a tendency to gesture more towards each other than to the reality they pretend to portray. How do TV writers create a fictional high school. Do they use their own experiences or do they take inspiration from previous teen dramas? And why is there always a trio of kids and one older mentor in every young adult fantasy or crime solving franchise?

    Give the comics a shot, Stoney. You may find you enjoy them

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    For what It's worth I don't think either the Dark Horse comics or the new Boom ones can hold a candle in the writing stakes to the show, but as a harmless add on to the franchise they're fine.

    At least as they're non canon It means If something about them pisses you off It's easy to dismiss them, unlike the Dark Horse stuff which used to irritate me no end.
    Last edited by Silver1; 19-04-19 at 08:55 PM.

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  12. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
    Well, here's an example:

    A person with no exposure to teen dramas may wonder why Cordelia acts like she does in WttH. She seems to be both nice and mean at the same time. Of course, most people have encountered some form bully in their actual life, but that bully may have been very different from Cordelia and could have been more like Larry.

    Everyone that is actually part of the world and consume popular media immediately clocks Cordelia for what she is, because of all the usual textual signs.

    Storytelling is a language, and stories have a tendency to gesture more towards each other than to the reality they pretend to portray. How do TV writers create a fictional high school. Do they use their own experiences or do they take inspiration from previous teen dramas? And why is there always a trio of kids and one older mentor in every young adult fantasy or crime solving franchise?

    Give the comics a shot, Stoney. You may find you enjoy them
    But I'm not anti the comics and have said all the way through that I'm interested in them as an existing fan. I've ordered the TPB already in fact, but I'm not spending money on buying the individual issues too because it isn't canon so I'm choosing to limit how much I'm spending on them. I don't in any way need persuading to give them a chance or have storytelling generally explained to me.

    I understand how pieces of work influence each other and touch on similar/identical social/cultural topics. The original question had nothing to do with any of this but that these contain the same setting and explore variations of the same characters. Often touching on the same character points. So I was pondering on the specific influence on each other of this comic against the original canon show/comics that occurs from the order consumed. Especially when considering that this new version openly touches on issues the characters come to understand about themselves through the course of the show and their development. As the original comments that prompted the question were considering.
    Last edited by Stoney; 19-04-19 at 06:06 PM.

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  14. #48
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    I'm sorry if you find me annoying or condescending. I just wanted to say that I don't think there is anything fundamentally different between the way BOOM BtVS engages with old BtVS and the way old BtVS engages with the media that came before it. If that was too obvious a point, then I didn't realise.

    I am glad you'll be reading the comics soon

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    Stoney

    Is the Boom version interesting in its own right though?
    Impossible to say really - for the simple reason that the original show is, as WfB points out, an intertext for me. My initial inclination was to say no but that would probably be unfair because some people do find it interesting in its own right and it could get to the stage when I find it interesting in its own right. I'm with Double Dutchess inasmuch as I wouldn't have bought it if I wasn't familiar with the original series. I've got a few graphic novels (From Hell, Sabrina and Maus) but I don't - as a rule - buy comics. I only have From Hell because I was teaching a module on Jack the Ripper and Psychogeography (dangerous work but someone has to do it. I think I have a Batman comic for the same reason ) and Maus because I teach a module on representing the Holocaust. Sabrina I bought because it was the first graphic novel to be long-listed for the Booker and I was intrigued (also too lazy to read the other nominations). The point I'm making is, I don't buy them for "fun" and I rarely read for "fun". I'm interested in them as an art-form (albeit one I'm not overly familiar with). For that reason, I'd find it impossible to ignore the show because it constitutes an Ur-text (of sorts). That said, I can enjoy Sherlock for itself (though I always teach it in relation to the original Conan Doyle and the tradition of the classical detective) but this is probably because I wasn't a "fan" of the original. The purists who were fans of the traditional Doyle text tend to be far more critical. There's a whole academic field that's developed around the notion of adaptation. If I ever read the bloody books I buy then I'd know far more about it than I do.

    The difficulty for me in separating it from the show is uncanniness of the art work.

    What interests me with Boom Buffy is a) the changes they were "forced" to make to accommodate time and the socio-political and b) the changes they choose to make (aesthetic). I'll be honest, for academic reasons, I'm more interested in the vampires than the humans. Nina Auerbach said every age gets the vampire it needs (which I agree with) and she tends to align the vampire with progressive feminist concerns (I'm with her on this too). I think I understood this in relation to the original BtVS and DH and I'm interested in the difference between that expression and this. For me, it's all a continuum - but then I see BtVS as on a continuum going back to at least the 19th C.

    As for the marketing of it. The cynic in me thinks the Boom comic was never intended to appeal to a new market but to revitalise the old one.

    Spike's chest and arms - which appear to have doubled in size since #3. Is it coincidence that Dru's talking about the "strengths" of being a vampire and that Spike says Dru "helped make me the man I am today?" Is it also coincidence that Spike looks as miserable as sin and there's one of Xander's text boxes ("Maybe I'll always feel alone") sharing his frame? I wouldn't be surprised if Spander became a thing. And destiny - why's Dru talking about destiny when in #3 it was prophecy and legends (but not myth)? Am I finding this interesting in its own right? IDK.
    Last edited by TriBel; 19-04-19 at 08:10 PM.

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    Marc Aspinall’s process for an upcoming Buffy the Vampire Slayer cover. It's obviously Drusilla and Vampire Xander, and underneath them Buffy and Willow finding Xander's dead body. Could be a misleading cover.
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    Man, I got chills. I want Xander to be alive, but I am also very curious about what they may be planning with a vampire Xander.

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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
    I'm sorry if you find me annoying or condescending. I just wanted to say that I don't think there is anything fundamentally different between the way BOOM BtVS engages with old BtVS and the way old BtVS engages with the media that came before it. If that was too obvious a point, then I didn't realise.

    I am glad you'll be reading the comics soon
    I think we're talking at cross purposes to be honest, because it wasn't the general way that stories lean on others and continue from what came before, that I was questioning. It was whether BOOM BtVS relies on understanding the characters of canon BtVS specifically. Or, as a separate consideration, how using the aspects of those characters that were revealed or became developed during the show at earlier stages (which was what was being discussed) could impact how someone who watched the show after reading them would respond to canon. If you don't feel that it engages with canon in any way that is more specific and relies on having seen canon to understand BOOM's stories any more than any other stories that came before, then that's your answer. I actually hadn't realised that you were saying that you personally think they don't engage with existing BtVS/canon any more than canon engages with everything that came before that (just talking generally about that being how things interact with what comes before). There were several posters that stated at the start of the run that they felt BOOM weren't filling in gaps to establish relationship dynamics and character backgrounds that were specific to BtVS but were leaning on readers' having pre-existing knowledge specific to these characters/this verse. When conversation was then also talking about finding specific interest in aspects of characterisation being revealed that were repressed before or came to be developed later in canon, it made me wonder if this was a similar thing again, that it was how it built on from and varied from canon that was providing the main points of interest rather than it being seen as a stand alone version and developed story points in their own right. TriBel's examples above about developments very specific to the BOOM story and the characters they're building also gives another answer of what they're doing which separates it and goes beyond/outside of it sitting as just a compare/contrast to canon.

    Basically I've had answers within the responses that people have given which have touched on what I was trying to ask, but surrounded by points being raised which made me think that perhaps my reason for asking was misunderstood. The value, validity of a reimagining in and of itself seemed to be getting defended when I was really just asking whether it really functions as a follow on and needs what came before it, in a literal BtVS canon specific way. I'm interested in what they're doing. I don't care about it like canon so I'm happy to see whatever they do and how they change it (and how they don't), I just wasn't sure how much they are relying on canon BtVS-specific preexisting knowledge/interest and was trying to gauge what people that have read it thought now we're at the end of the first batch of stories. I just don't think I've managed to convey my thought/question very well so I'm going to roll with the aspects which seemed to answer what I was attempting to ask and give in gracefully now I think.

    I have the TPB on preorder and am looking forward to reading them. There's no mention yet of when the second TPB might be released or the first Angel TPB, which I'll also definitely get the first of to see what I think of it.
    Last edited by Stoney; 20-04-19 at 01:36 AM.

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  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post


    Marc Aspinall’s process for an upcoming Buffy the Vampire Slayer cover. It's obviously Drusilla and Vampire Xander, and underneath them Buffy and Willow finding Xander's dead body. Could be a misleading cover.
    I don't know. I do know I'm going to be pissed if the pick-up in Issue #5 is "Angel rescues Xander from near-vampirism", because eff and that to the very ground. I have wanted very little, all things considered, for this character for, oh, 17 years. And that is for his story to matter, for it to feature in the "A" plot. The last time we got anywhere near that in live action was Season 2; the last time in print was in the end of Seasons 8 and 9, and in all cases it was pretty much bailed out of in the last moment.

    I don't care if they turn him into a vampire at this point as long as it's not a Jesse or Ford or Dead Eddie scenario where we just behold the tragedy of Xander and move on after he's dust in 20 minutes. Do it because it means he's going to be as relevant to the central pillars of the story from then on as Angel or Spike ever were - Buffy accessory optional - even if it's as an antagonist.

    There was a lot going on in this issue I liked, but those two points I made above were my deepest reaction to it

    A) making a deliberate drive-by to quash Buffy/Xander even though it didn't even really need to come up at all to set up this plot direction and Xander's general emotional state leading up to it. Believe it or not, he's allowed to be depressed or in an existential crisis without it being about Buffy, and
    B) setting up this grand scenario where he's going to be turned that's done as well and as seriously as Darla turning Angel or Dru turning Spike ever was... only to tease out that it might just get averted.

    Also, giving Robin "Killmonger" hair is so twee and stupid. I'm not usually that petty about art and character design, but it's actually kinda... condescending? Like we can't just have a black man in the putative romantic lead with Buffy (which is a perfectly fine and good thing, to be clear), but we have to go all "How do you do fellow kids?" and have him rocking a look from Black Panther. Really?

    On a positive, I really am enjoying the new Dru and Spike and the different dynamic between them. I like Dru being the real boss here.

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  26. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    On a positive, I really am enjoying the new Dru and Spike and the different dynamic between them. I like Dru being the real boss here.
    She always was.

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  28. #55
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    I've always felt as though Xander matters.

    And I've really started to warm up to new Spike and Dru.

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  30. #56
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    Interesting issue - because of what is about to happen to Xander and his state of mind - he really is dealing (or not) with heavy stuff. To me, it's obvious that Angel (with a soul) will step in and save him; he has strength and speed to do so. If he doesn't... it will be very weird and upsetting, since we're talking about ANGEL (well, the one we used to know).

    However, it will be disappointing that such a big moment (that happened with Spike and Angel on the show) end up being just a ruse.

    I was thinking: and if Bangel and Spuffy are being dropped in favor of Buffy/Xander?

    I don't know if what Xander said on the show (about Buffy liking bad guys over the good ones, or something like that) could be played here: Xander has no chance with Buffy but then he is turned and in the long run becomes Buffy's love interest. I know, it lacks a chip plot to "tame" him and easy the way, but if the Scoobies try to save Xander (how to save someone from vampirism?) maybe they come up with something similar (magical this time), making possible a vampire Xander to come back to the group and be integrated, more or less like Spike on the show.

    Of course, there's Wood, but maybe they will do a triangle this time - a la Twilight.
    Last edited by betta; 20-04-19 at 03:02 AM.
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  32. #57
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    Xander story here mirrors Spike's one from flashbacks. And I don't know what they want to do with him, but as one of possibilities he could take the role of Spike in this verse (and Spike to have role of flashback Angel to him). In everything, including Spuffy. I know that sounds far-fetched, but do we really expecting them to go without Slayer/Vamp pairing? And Vamp Xander could be perfect candidate for this. It also would justify why they changed almost everything about all the characters, but left Xander's crush on Buffy intact, crush that led to absolutely nowhere in original TV series and was absolutely unnecessary here. Of course it's just one of possibilities and I could be absolutely wrong here. They could go for hundreds other storylines instead.

    As for Angel saving Xander. Not only they they had written about death of major character, but Jordie also specifically used phrase " I think I just enjoy breaking hearts".

    As for buffed Spike, it's not him being especially buffed, but him being much taller than in original. It's kind of understandable though as for purpose of this scene he should look intimidating and it would be harder to achieve if they had used real life height differences between Nick and James. Besides Buffy also is taller in the comics, so it's all fair.

    P.S. Interesting, betta have similar idea. At least I'm not alone here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
    I've always felt as though Xander matters.

    And I've really started to warm up to new Spike and Dru.
    I haven't. Spike's still puzzling me. D'you know whether Angel #0 casts any light on who sired who?

    I've always felt as though Xander matters.
    I agree.

    Alce

    Xander story here mirrors Spike's one from flashbacks. And I don't know what they want to do with him, but as one of possibilities he could take the role of Spike in this verse (and Spike to have role of flashback Angel to him). In everything, including Spuffy. I know that sounds far-fetched,
    I don't think it's far fetched...it's quite feasible.
    Last edited by TriBel; 20-04-19 at 02:55 AM.

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  36. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alce View Post
    I know that sounds far-fetched, but do we really expecting them to go without Slayer/Vamp pairing?
    No way in hell they will go WITHOUT Slayer/Vamp pairing. I think.
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    I don't think that Buffy will date any vampires in the near future mostly because Robin exists. I mean, he's kinda already Buffy's love interest, no? I think that, in general, this whole protagonist/vampire thing has become such a washed-out, tired YA cliche. I can't imagine them going there, it's borderline uncool.

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