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Thread: Making it up as they went along - What was/wasn't planned

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    I can understand though, that Joss simply didn`t have any more stories to tell about Cordy. I don`t think Fred was more interesting as a character. To me she always seemed to be a bit Mary Sue-ish. But she was a new character and the writers could tell new stories involving her. They had done almost everything to Cordelia. She had been pregnant, in love, a demon, a higher being and a snarky cheerleader. What should they have done in season 5? Have her hold hands with Angel for an entire season? I love Cordy, but she had been on BtVs for three seasons and on AtS for four seasons. She`s been part of the story for a longer time than anyone else of Angels`s team except for Angel himself.
    If I were writing Cordy into Season 5 my idea was always that she'd be the one member to refuse to join W&H and then when Spike showed up, rather than have Spike team up with Lindsey (or faux 'Doyle') he'd team up with Cordy. It would really make Angel doubt himself as a Champion and as a force for good if Spike took his place as the PTB's legitimate hero with Cordy working alongside him with her visions and it would cause a lot of hurt and jealousy for Angel if Spike/Cordy grew close. Obviously I would hope that Angel and Cordy would reunite on the same side by the season's end but I think it would be an even stronger version of the storyline we briefly got in Season 5 already when Spike was set up as a 'Season 1' Angel (particularly in episodes like "Soul Purpose").
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    Graveyard Patrol Willow from Buffy's Avatar
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    @vampmongs

    Could you help me find the interviews where Joss talks about abandoning Cordelia in Pylea and Charisma talks about Fred upstaging Cordy?

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    I feel Charisma should be focusing less on feeling upstaged by Fred/Amy and more upset at the producer's and writer's inability to know what to do with more than one woman on screen.

    But whichever way, Charisma and Cordy got shafted no matter whose fault it is.
    Last edited by seekingoutfriday; 23-04-19 at 09:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seekingoutfriday View Post
    I feel Charisma should be focusing less on feeling upstaged by Fred/Amy and more upset at the producer's and writer's inability to know what to do with more than one woman on screen.
    But I don't think vampmongs implied that Charimsa blamed Amy. That's why I really want to read what she said.

    Charisma has been very vocal about feeling underappreciated by Joss, and she's lamented the departure of David Greenwalt.

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    I hope she doesn't blame Amy

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    There is a quote from Joss in this

    https://screenrant.com/angel-tv-show...ecrets-trivia/

    It remember reading something a long time ago about CC struggling in S1 of Angel and fighting with Joss over her acting abilities. An acting coach was called in to help her. But of course I can't find that article anywhere now that I'm looking for it.


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    Quoted from the article: "According to Complex, the feud began when Carpenter didn't tell the creatives about her pregnancy until the last minute in season four. This caused a frantic scramble to fix the season four story arc in order to accommodate her."

    Look at that. Last minute before what? Before they started shooting?

    I googled the quote from Joss and found this interview: https://www.tvguide.com/news/angel-mystery-cordy-38602/ The interviewer is pretty brave
    Last edited by Willow from Buffy; 24-04-19 at 02:27 AM.

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    They block out the season arcs before they start writing the scripts. My understanding is the arc had Cordy as the big bad - no pregnancy, no Jasmine. Final showdown between Jasmine/Cordy and Angel, and Angel was going to have to kill her. Then CC came in and told them, as they were getting scripts written, that she was pregnant and high risk, would be too large to do any of it and would have to leave the show before the season was over. That's the rumor but I've read it from a lot of good sources. It's the story that was going around at the time.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
    @vampmongs

    Could you help me find the interviews where Joss talks about abandoning Cordelia in Pylea and Charisma talks about Fred upstaging Cordy?
    I don't believe Whedon has ever come out and said that about the Pylea arc. I'm fairly certain it was another writer who told that story and it's something that I've seen repeated a lot over the years in fandom. However, I do remember either reading/seeing Charisma talk about the Fred/Amy stuff with my own eyes so that one should be easier to find. I think it may have been during the panel where she talked about all the Season 4/Joss drama but I'll have a dig around.

    And yes you're spot on her general attitude about it. My recollection may be fuzzy but I never got the impression she held any animosity towards Amy for any of it. She seemed hurt but it didn't come across as if she thought Amy was to blame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
    Quoted from the article: "According to Complex, the feud began when Carpenter didn't tell the creatives about her pregnancy until the last minute in season four. This caused a frantic scramble to fix the season four story arc in order to accommodate her."

    Look at that. Last minute before what? Before they started shooting?

    I googled the quote from Joss and found this interview:
    https://www.tvguide.com/news/angel-mystery-cordy-38602/ The interviewer is pretty brave
    Yep that's the interview I recalled earlier about Joss comparing Cordy's arc to Buffy's. I'd forgotten how bold the interview was

    Joss himself actually hints at the concept of a "leading lady" here and how it's not set in stone and can "fluctuate." I think that's him very much suggesting that just because Charisma was the leading lady it doesn't mean she always must be. And we all know who the other main actress on the show was, so...
    Last edited by vampmogs; 24-04-19 at 11:33 AM.
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    bespangeled:
    They block out the season arcs before they start writing the scripts.
    But when would that happen? And when would they actually start filming the new seasons?

    vampmogs:
    If I were writing Cordy into Season 5 my idea was always that she'd be the one member to refuse to join W&H and then when Spike showed up, rather than have Spike team up with Lindsey (or faux 'Doyle') he'd team up with Cordy. It would really make Angel doubt himself as a Champion and as a force for good if Spike took his place as the PTB's legitimate hero with Cordy working alongside him with her visions and it would cause a lot of hurt and jealousy for Angel if Spike/Cordy grew close. Obviously I would hope that Angel and Cordy would reunite on the same side by the season's end but I think it would be an even stronger version of the storyline we briefly got in Season 5 already when Spike was set up as a 'Season 1' Angel (particularly in episodes like "Soul Purpose").
    I think setting up Spike as a "Champion" and a new season 1 Angel only worked, because it was a hoax. Spike and Angel both failed in season 5. And I think that`s a lot more intersting than a version, where Spike would have been the good guy and Angel the evil guy. I agree that it would have been very in-character for Cordy to refuse W&H`s offer. But that would have made it even more difficult to integrate her into season 5.

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    The best source for Cordy's side of the story that I know of is a podcast interview called "Don't Mess with Charisma Carpenter." It used to be on youtube, but now I think you must go on iTunes to find it. It is part of a show called "Don't Mess with..."

    It's a very fun interview. She talks about the good times, too.

    Btw, Charsima's son shares birthdays with me and Aly Hannigan

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