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Thread: Do You Believe? by Rebcake starting on 29th March 2019

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    Default Do You Believe? by Rebcake starting on 29th March 2019

    Here we go again!

    We will be discussing

    Do You Believe by Rebcake

    from next Friday on.

    Its a 4k words fic which is set in season 4. You can read it here:

    https://dark-solace.org/elysian/viewstory.php?sid=2726

    or here:

    https://archiveofourown.org/works/69374

    but if you don`t want to read it at all, you can also listen to it here:

    http://www.mediafire.com/file/co9lzq...dv/Rebcake.mp3

    Dear Rebcake, if you have found your way to this thread, please be so kind as to read this
    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...re-you-proceed!
    before you proceed. Thank you for your consideration. Please feel welcome to join in the discussion. We would be delighted and honored.


    flow

    P.S.: I only just noticed that Rebcake has more stories published on AO3 than on EF. As I only ever read on EF I have therefore missed out on most of her work so far and have to catch up now...
    Last edited by flow; 22-03-19 at 02:19 PM.
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    Rebcake - I don't like the title. It's given me earworm. If I've got to suffer I'll take others down with me.


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    You're a monster!

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    Let’s get the discussion started!

    flow
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    Really enjoyable read. The basic idea, that Spike's worth is shown to Buffy through the spells cast on and around her, works really well. Spike really did help all those times, and it's not shown in the show that Buffy even knew about half of it, so it's nice to see her reaction now.

    I like that Spike and Joyce have a standing Saturday night date, though there could be overtones of something else going on, Rebcake writes it very much as mother/son vibe.

    Buffy seemed to be very much into Riley in the show during Where The Wild Things Are, so Rebcake turned it a little on its head to have Buffy say she wasn't sure of her feelings for Riley and didn't know if she wanted to be forced to spending all night having sex with him, even going so far as calling all the magic being done to her as a form of rape. I think looking at it that way moved a nice fluffy little story into another realm and makes it much darker than where it first began.

    I enjoy Rebcake's style and she has a lovely turn of phrase, I particularly liked;

    “I know. I’m just not happy. Magic has totally kicked my butt this year, and this could be the cherry on top,” she grumbled.

    “The cherry on top of your kicked butt?” grinned Xander. “That’s magic of a whole other kind, Buff.”

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    I really enjoyed this fic. Looking at Buffy's responses to the magic across the season specifically was an interesting way to examine her thoughts over what had happened, give something to hang a changed perspective to and offer a few interactions between her and Spike. So I thought how it was shown to lead into her reassessing the team and taking the possible pluses of accepting Spike as an ally was an interesting angle for offering a shift between them at that stage. It also worked nicely with giving context to why he wasn't getting more fallout from betraying them as he had.

    Because it wasn't a lengthy and detailed fic, I found the obviously differing tone for her relationship with Riley a bit odd to read about as I hadn't actually 'seen' the relationship as described between them. But that just made me wish I'd seen more and I'd have loved to read more around the ideas as well as where it led on to. I often end up wanting more from short fics and actually think it arguably is a good sign of ones that show a snippet of something really good if you're left wishing it continued or was expanded on.

    I also got to learn a British slang word I've never come across before, not something that happens often as a Brit myself, but sket was a new one on me.

    I agree with Pricey that Rebcake's style and turn of phrase are very engaging. I was really glad that I slotted in joining for this short.

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    I also enjoyed the story. It made me realize just how much magic was in S4. rebcake is great. I really prefer reading on EF but she may lure me over to AO3. As for Riley, I think he was written and created to be the perfect boyfriend for Buffy but just wasn't popular with the audience. I don't know if it was the character, the actor, or just to soon after Angel or the spike/Buffy chemistry. Maybe it was a bit of everything, what ever it was it doesn't bother me to have him trivialized in hindsight. Meh. It's just Riley.


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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    I am a bit biased about this fic. It`s one of my all-time-favorites and it`s my most favorite of all of Rebcake`s fics. I absolutely love the wording, the dialogue, the way she takes us through all of season 4 with not a single word wasted but still saying everything that`s important to say. I don`t agree that the fic should be longer. I often get tired of promising and wonderful written fics because I think they drag one simple plot idea or dialogue out until all the suspense and expectation is completely lost and even the tiniest issue has been talked to the death. That`s not the case with this story. It`s spot on all the way and keeps my attention focused. I simply adore how Buffy ist still Buffy and Spike ist still Spike (Benedict Arnold instead of Mary Sue) but at the end of the season they are a bit more friendly and a bit closer than they were on the show.

    As for Riley ... I often hear people say WTWTA is about how passionate and fulfilling Riley`s and Buffy`s sex life was. I don`t know about that (to be honest I have my doubts, considering, that we see each of them leave the bed after lovemaking to go and seek satisfaction elsewhere), but WTWTA gives me the creeps regarding the Buffy/Riley sex. I can see nothing passionate about being forced by a spell to go at it like rabbits for hours and hours and it doesn`t matter if it is your boyfriend you are being forced to have sex with.

    To me Buffy being uncomfortable about what happened that night and turning to Joyce for a advise and hot chocolate ist very relatable.

    I am glad I had a reason to re-read this. I really enjoyed it again.

    Did anyone listen to the audio?

    flow
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    I read it. Do you recommend the audio?


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    I don`t agree that the fic should be longer.
    I don't think that the fic should be longer, that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that short fics often make me wish that I could read more about the ideas in them or about what happens afterwards and that this is a positive response to having enjoyed it. If you see what I mean?? In this one especially for wanting to see how the varying position they are in at the end plays out differently from there. It's greed really. I enjoyed it and I want mooooore.

    To me Buffy being uncomfortable about what happened that night and turning to Joyce for a advise and hot chocolate ist very relatable.
    Yes I agree, it isn't that the idea doesn't have merit as an alternate response to the spell of WTWTA. The episode's actual response where they both confirm tongue in cheek how 'terrible' it was always felt pretty weak as a response to me, but they weren't looking at it for having been traumatic at all. I was traumatised as a viewer (I find the sex scenes really forced in the supposed passion and how it is shot exceptionally corny), but the characters weren't.

    I didn't listen to any audio.

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    I read it last week and enjoyed it, but I'd need to look through it again for more detailed comments. In any case I agree with the things everyone said about it so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    P.S.: I only just noticed that Rebcake has more stories published on AO3 than on EF. As I only ever read on EF I have therefore missed out on most of her work so far and have to catch up now...
    Just wondering, why do you only read on EF? Personally I only read on EF if I have to; I much prefer AO3 because there you can read, give kudos and even comment without needing an account. (It's the lurker in me who really appreciates that; it's just so much more convenient.) Also it has a very clean and user friendly interface. Plus LOTS and LOTS of stories, including plenty you won't find on EF.
    Last edited by Double Dutchess; 30-03-19 at 06:26 PM.

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    Stoney
    I don't think that the fic should be longer, that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that short fics often make me wish that I could read more about the ideas in them or about what happens afterwards and that this is a positive response to having enjoyed it.
    Ah,I probably expressed myself badly, like always. I`m sorry. Of course one always wishes for more good Spuffy fanfics :-) But this ending kinda leaves it in the open, where they will go from here and I really liked that. It is a bit like the show`s ending for Buffy (not for Spike, who ended up as a roman candle ...grrr). We see Buffy standing at the Sunnydale crater and we don`t know, where she will go next, but we know she will go somewhere and start something new and she is looking forward to it. The ending of this fic makes me think about what Spike and Buffy will be up to together next. And that makes me feel happy. Maybe it`s just because I really like open endings. Like Not Fade Away. I really love that ending, although it`s not as optimistic as this fic`s ending.

    flow
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    I agree on the open endings and I think that is something positive that can be said of S12 too (and with really good signs for Buffy and Spike, if you wanna see them. ). I definitely prefer things left like that, to feel like the characters go on. It still makes me wish I could see what happens of course, but I'd always rather have an ending like that than a death so that there's still potential.

    I always take copies of fics and read them in Word on my computer from the copy I made. Some sites are a pain to take copies from (like bloodshedverse), but plenty are easy.

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    Double Dutchess
    Just wondering, why do you only read on EF? Personally I only read on EF if I have to; I much prefer AO3 because there you can read, give kudos and even comment without needing an account. (It's the lurker in me who really appreciates that; it's just so much more convenient.) Also it has a very clean and user friendly interface. Plus LOTS and LOTS of stories, including plenty you won't find on EF.
    Good question. Yes, I read only on EF unless there is a fic that`s not available on EF and it has been recommended to me very convincingly or we are reading it in our little book club. For example Quinara`s Turn And Face The Strain series. She is one of the more famous and prolific Spuffy fanfic writers who haven`t published on EF at all. What a shame!

    You made me think about why I prefer reading on EF. I think it is mostly because EF was the very first site I read fanfic on. When I first stumbled across AO3 I was already used to all the nice and comforting features of EF.

    EF has about 5k fics. AO3 has about 5 million fics. It`s like growing up in a small rural town and then moving to New York City. When I first visited AO3 I got lost very quickly in the sheer amount of fics.

    EF also has a tight knit community. I can always go on and just say "Hi" and someone will respond "Nice to see you, flow". I can also ask "I want to read a fluffy or a dark or an angsty fic, do you have any recs?" and I will get at least a dozen links. EF has a book shelf where I put the fics I want to read in future and I can keep track of the fics I`ve read (by marking them as read) and the fics I liked (by marking them as favorites). EF has running lists of recent fics and featured fics. That`s how I find new fics to read. I always check out the featured and recent fics (as long as they are completed). I use EF`s comic skin and I find it very comforting for my eyes, even more so than AO3`s clean interface. I admit though that AO3 does have the user friendliest interface apart from EF. I simply go mad when I have to read on ff.net, The Spuffy Realm, The Bloodshedverse, Twisting The Hellmouth or All About Spike.

    I am happy AO3 does exist, but I simply feel more comfortable on EF.

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    My feelings about EF are exactly the same!


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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    Thanks for the explanation, flow! I can totally understand sticking to what you are used to, and being attached to the place where you first felt at home. I guess the big difference for me is that EF has never been a fandom home for me. (Sadly my first fandom home no longer exists, nor my second.)

    When I started out reading fanfic I followed recs (mostly from LJ) to different places like All About Spike and the other websites you mentioned, or LJ itself. EF was just one of many places to read fanfic, and not the most prominent one (plus annoying to me because of the needing an account thing). Things have changed over the years, but I guess I never got into changing my mind about EF -- so you see how our different first experiences have formed our opinions!

    AO3 on the other hand came up later, but I loved it from the start. I can see how the sheer amount of stories on there can be overwhelming, but I mainly just follow recs (or the links in the Sunnydale Herald) and if you already know the authors you love, all their stories are easy to find.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I always take copies of fics and read them in Word on my computer from the copy I made. Some sites are a pain to take copies from (like bloodshedverse), but plenty are easy.
    I used to copy all fics I read in Word and print them out (!) or put them on my e-reader to read, when I got one. Now I just read all fanfic on my phone. At least that way I can read fic in bed, outside, while traveling or basically any place I want. If I had to read from my computer, I'm sure I would never get around to reading anything...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Dutchess View Post
    I used to copy all fics I read in Word and print them out (!) or put them on my e-reader to read, when I got one. Now I just read all fanfic on my phone. At least that way I can read fic in bed, outside, while traveling or basically any place I want. If I had to read from my computer, I'm sure I would never get around to reading anything...
    I don't go out much so reading everything on my laptop is really convenient. I don't go far without it even when I do (it's my third and favourite child ). So if I'm staying overnight anywhere else it's with me.

    When I first started reading fanfic I never took copies of stories but then I started noticing people requesting fics I'd read once but couldn't find anymore and so I started taking copies and working back through the ones I enjoyed the most to try and get copies of those too. The fading off of fandom has been a steady phenomenon since I came to fandom but I keep hoping this site will prevail.

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    Does anyone know a way on AO3 of recording that you've read a fic? One of the reasons I like EF is that if you've read a fic, it's recorded with a little tick next to the title. Is there such a thing on AO3?

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    I expect it should be possible to do that on AO3 if you have an account. Probably through the History function? Or the Bookmarks, or maybe there's still something else. I don't have an AO3 account myself, so unfortunately I can't tell you exactly how it works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Dutchess View Post
    I expect it should be possible to do that on AO3 if you have an account. Probably through the History function? Or the Bookmarks, or maybe there's still something else. I don't have an AO3 account myself, so unfortunately I can't tell you exactly how it works.
    Thank's DD, I'll have to investigate further

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