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Thread: Buffyverse Antagonist Relationship Game

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    Default Buffyverse Antagonist Relationship Game

    Ok, from the Possible Game Thread, I'm starting a new game that I feel pretty excited about. We want to pick our favorite antagonistic relationships in the Buffyverse.

    This is an elimination game. Starting now, everyone should vote ONCE for their FIVE LEAST FAVORITE antagonist-relationships. Around 24 hours from now (flexible times given the demands of real life), I'll count the votes and eliminate the five pairings with the most votes. Then, we'll do the same for round 2. Eventually, I'll reduce the amount of pairings to be eliminated as the herd gets thinned.

    1. Buffy v. The Master
    2. Buffy v. Cordelia
    3. Willow v. Cordelia
    4. Xander v. Cordelia
    5. Buffy v. Darla
    6. Angel v. Darla
    7. Buffy v. Angel
    8. Xander v. Angel
    9. Xander v. Larry
    10. Buffy v. Spike
    11. Spike v. Angel
    12. Buffy v. Drusilla
    13. Giles v. Angel
    14. Buffy v. Jenny
    15. Buffy v. The Mayor
    16. Buffy v. Faith
    17. Willow v. Faith
    18. Giles v. Wesley
    19. Giles v. Ethan
    20. Buffy v. Mr. Trick
    21. Buffy v. Ethan
    22. Buffy v. Wesley
    23. Willow v. Anya
    24. Xander v. Wesley
    25. Buffy v. Adam
    26. Buffy v. Maggie
    27. Giles v. Maggie
    28. Willow v. Veruca
    29. Buffy v. Forrest
    30. Buffy v. Glory
    31. Xander v. Spike
    32. Riley v. Spike
    33. Buffy v. Quentin
    34. Buffy v. Xander
    35. Buffy v. Willow
    36. Buffy v. Dawn
    37. Buffy v. Warren
    38. Buffy v. Giles
    39. Buffy v. Jonathan
    40. Buffy v. Andrew
    41. Willow v. Warren
    42. Willow v. Andrew
    43. Willow v. Jonathan
    44. Buffy v. Anya
    45. Buffy v. Snyder
    46. Xander v. Snyder
    47. Willow v. Snyder
    48. Giles v. Snyder
    49. Buffy v. Caleb
    50. Xander v. Caleb
    51. Spike v. Wood
    52. D'Hoffryn v. Anya
    53. Buffy v. The First
    54. Angel v. Riley
    55. Willow v. Amy
    56. Willow v. Rack
    57. Buffy v. Harmony
    58. Spike v. Harmony
    59. Spike v. Giles
    60. Giles v. Willow
    61. Katrina v. Warren
    62. Giles v. Quentin
    63. Oz v. Veruca
    64. Faith v. Angel
    65. Xander v. Harmony
    66. Willow v. Veruca
    67. Wesley v. Faith
    68. Angel v. Lindsay
    69. Angel v. Holland
    70. Angel v. Lilah
    71. Angel v. Drusilla
    72. Angel v. Gunn
    73. Wesley v. Gunn
    74. Angel v. Wesley
    75. Angel v. Holtz
    76. Angel v. Connor
    77. Wesley v. Justine
    78. Darla v. Holtz
    79. Angel v. Illyria
    80. Wesley v. Illyria
    81. Fred v. Jasmine
    82. Angel v. Jasmine
    83. Angel v. Eve
    84. Angel v. Hamilton
    85. Angel v. Senior Partners
    86. Lilah v. Lindsay
    87. Lilah v. Gavin
    88. Lilah v. Linwood
    89. Angel v. Linwood
    90. Wesley v. Knox
    91. Angel v. Harmony
    92. Angel v. Sahjhan
    93. Connor v. Sahjhan
    94. Gunn v. Sparrow
    95. Wesley v. Lilah
    96. Wesley v. Holtz
    97. Angel v. The Beast
    98. Connor v. Jasmine
    99. Spike v. Illyria
    100. Anya v. Xander
    101. Anya v. Olaf
    103. Buffy v. Knights of Byzantium
    104. Buffy v. Ben
    105. Giles v. Ben
    Last edited by Dipstick; 13-02-19 at 11:39 PM.

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    My votes:

    Buffy v. Andrew: They barely interacted in S6 when Andrew was actually a villain. Buffy didn't particularly like Andrew in S7 but essentially, he was comic relief guestage and they didn't have much of an antagonistic dynamic.

    Harmony v. Xander: As a popular mean girl, she didn't have the wit to get under Xander's skin like Cordelia and their fights after Harmony became a vampire were moronic.

    Buffy v. Mr. Trick: I love Mr. Trick but there's no oomph to his dynamic with Buffy. He's more Faith's problem at first. Then, he pulls the strings in Homecoming/Band Candy/Bad Girls, and he's just a casualty of a melee in Consequences.

    Angel v. Eve: Eve just became Angel's villain because Lindsay told her to. Angel hated Eve because she's the Senior Partner's representative and then, Lindsay's mole. For all of the flirting, it's completely impersonal.

    Oz v. Veruca: I don't think it was ever quite antagonistic. Oz didn't think Veruca was ever quite the human but he was mainly attracted at first. Veruca sure liked Oz. Oz killed her out of sheer defense of Willow instead of out of an antagonistic relationship.

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    Angel v Darla is in the Buffy part of the list. Should I consider her entire relationship with him or just schoolgirl Darla with guns?
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bespangled View Post
    Angel v Darla is in the Buffy part of the list. Should I consider her entire relationship with him or just schoolgirl Darla with guns?
    The entire relationship. The list comprises the whole Buffyverse. Just treat it like one big list- not divided by show.

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    My picks:

    2. Buffy v. Cordelia
    3. Willow v. Cordelia
    9. Xander v. Larry

    These two conflicts are pretty quickly resolved. Larry leaps out of the closet, and Cordy become part of the group.

    5. Buffy v. Darla
    24. Xander v. Wesley

    Buffy barely interacts with Darla - she's sort of a Maguffin in early BTVS.
    I also can't really recall any serious Xander vs Wesley issues(other than Wesley is an ass with a stick up his English Channel.)
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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    That's how the game is played. Which isn't to say that I agree with you. Buffy v. Cordelia and Willow v. Cordelia remain antagonistic and damn interesting after Cordy is brought into the group. I'd be voting for Darla v. Buffy and Xander v. Larry soon. I'd be voting for Xander v. Wesley soon but I think Xander is the jerk in that dynamic and Wesley didn't do anything wrong to Xander. It's all Xander lobbing insults at Wesley because Cordelia was hitting on Wesley and Wesley was interested back even though Cordelia/Xander was absolutely over at this point.

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    Hey! OK - not sure if I'm doing this right, plus I haven't watched AtS in its entirety...but here's my vote!

    29. Buffy v. Forrest
    52. D'Hoffryn v. Anya
    101. Anya v. Olaf
    5. Buffy v. Darla
    50. Xander v. Caleb

    ps: should we give reasons for our vote?
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    SpuffyGlitz, if those are your least favorite antagonist relationships listed (and it makes sense that they would be!), you did it right.

    You do not have to give reasons for your vote. That was me making my own fun with my post.

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    I agree that the antagonism in Cordelia's relationships continues into her becoming a member of the group and remains interesting.

    I have a set of three to begin with because I just don't think that Harmony is taken seriously. She's treated like a joke by Spike too, but the dynamic of the relationship is more interesting so doesn't warrant being in the first batch. But in terms of her other antagonistic relationships I think she's just too irrelevant to everyone and treated as a joke by them to be interesting. I mean heck, Angel even gives her a reference. So...

    Buffy v Harmony
    Xander v Harmony
    Angel v Harmony
    Buffy v Mr Trick - there's little directly there, even despite slayerfest
    Angel v Hamilton - the measuring contest between them just doesn't interest me and Angel's abandonment of his friends to their fates to go and fight him for this I find hugely negative and immensely shallow
    Last edited by Stoney; 14-02-19 at 02:57 AM.

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    Buffy v. Darla - I like that Darla brought guns, but not anything else. Good Girl vs Bad Girl, fight over a man, yada yada.
    Giles v. Wesley - don't even remember much about Xander vs Wesley, but as much as Wesley was annoying, Giles came off as a jerk at times.
    Willow v. Veruca - again, Good Girl vs Bad Girl, fight over a man...
    Angel v. The Beast - because the Beast was boring
    Buffy v. Knights of Byzantium - because the Knights made no goddamn sense
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    A lot of varying opinions here. Cordelia's conflicts with Buffy and Willow and Giles v. Wesley all rank fairly high in my book- interesting and funny. Bumping up this nascent game to try to get a consensus.

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    I am not very familiar with AtS, which means, i don`t even know some of the candidates.

    My least favorite would be:

    1. Buffy vs. Xander

    Unlike Buffy vs. (Dark)Willow, Buffy and Xander were never anatgonists, unless I missed something.

    2. Willow vs. Veruca

    What TTB said.

    3. Lilah vs. Gavin

    Don`t know enough about them, to like them.

    4. Xander vs. Larry

    What bespangled said.

    5. Fred vs. Jasmine

    It`s Jasmine ...

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    I went with five relations that did pretty much nothing for the characters or the story. Snyder was amusing from time to time, but meh. His impact was extremely limited. And I agree with bespangled about Larry.

    Buffy v. Snyder
    Xander v. Snyder
    Willow v. Snyder
    Giles v. Snyder
    Xander v. Larry

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    Ok, I was worried about this but we did get multiple votes against five pairings.

    Xander v. Harmony got slapped out of this game.

    Buffy v. Darla got double-pistol shot out of this game.

    Elimination games make DC look like Mayberry. Buffy v. Mr. Trick is gone.

    Willow v. Veruca thought we wouldn't play rough and now it's out. Meanwhile, Xander v. Larry is justout of the closet.

    Pick another five!

    1. Buffy v. The Master
    2. Buffy v. Cordelia
    3. Willow v. Cordelia
    4. Xander v. Cordelia
    6. Angel v. Darla
    7. Buffy v. Angel
    8. Xander v. Angel
    10. Buffy v. Spike
    11. Spike v. Angel
    12. Buffy v. Drusilla
    13. Giles v. Angel
    14. Buffy v. Jenny
    15. Buffy v. The Mayor
    16. Buffy v. Faith
    17. Willow v. Faith
    18. Giles v. Wesley
    19. Giles v. Ethan
    21. Buffy v. Ethan
    22. Buffy v. Wesley
    23. Willow v. Anya
    24. Xander v. Wesley
    25. Buffy v. Adam
    26. Buffy v. Maggie
    27. Giles v. Maggie
    29. Buffy v. Forrest
    30. Buffy v. Glory
    31. Xander v. Spike
    32. Riley v. Spike
    33. Buffy v. Quentin
    34. Buffy v. Xander
    35. Buffy v. Willow
    36. Buffy v. Dawn
    37. Buffy v. Warren
    38. Buffy v. Giles
    39. Buffy v. Jonathan
    40. Buffy v. Andrew
    41. Willow v. Warren
    42. Willow v. Andrew
    43. Willow v. Jonathan
    44. Buffy v. Anya
    45. Buffy v. Snyder
    46. Xander v. Snyder
    47. Willow v. Snyder
    48. Giles v. Snyder
    49. Buffy v. Caleb
    50. Xander v. Caleb
    51. Spike v. Wood
    52. D'Hoffryn v. Anya
    53. Buffy v. The First
    54. Angel v. Riley
    55. Willow v. Amy
    56. Willow v. Rack
    57. Buffy v. Harmony
    58. Spike v. Harmony
    59. Spike v. Giles
    60. Giles v. Willow
    61. Katrina v. Warren
    62. Giles v. Quentin
    63. Oz v. Veruca
    64. Faith v. Angel
    67. Wesley v. Faith
    68. Angel v. Lindsay
    69. Angel v. Holland
    70. Angel v. Lilah
    71. Angel v. Drusilla
    72. Angel v. Gunn
    73. Wesley v. Gunn
    74. Angel v. Wesley
    75. Angel v. Holtz
    76. Angel v. Connor
    77. Wesley v. Justine
    78. Darla v. Holtz
    79. Angel v. Illyria
    80. Wesley v. Illyria
    81. Fred v. Jasmine
    82. Angel v. Jasmine
    83. Angel v. Eve
    84. Angel v. Hamilton
    85. Angel v. Senior Partners
    86. Lilah v. Lindsay
    87. Lilah v. Gavin
    88. Lilah v. Linwood
    89. Angel v. Linwood
    90. Wesley v. Knox
    91. Angel v. Harmony
    92. Angel v. Sahjhan
    93. Connor v. Sahjhan
    94. Gunn v. Sparrow
    95. Wesley v. Lilah
    96. Wesley v. Holtz
    97. Angel v. The Beast
    98. Connor v. Jasmine
    99. Spike v. Illyria
    100. Anya v. Xander
    101. Anya v. Olaf
    103. Buffy v. Knights of Byzantium
    104. Buffy v. Ben
    105. Giles v. Ben

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    Spike v. Illyria - they don't really have a conflict. They just spar. In fact, I'd call them friends.
    Lilah v. Gavin - boring and predictable
    Buffy v. Maggie - Maggie died at the end of the episode where she finally made a move.Short conflict.
    Buffy v. Forrest - Forrest was pissy, but the conflict was one sided
    Anya v. Olaf - One trick pony - cute bottle episode but not a real conflict.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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    Repeating:

    Giles v. Wesley
    Angel v. The Beast
    Buffy v. Knights of Byzantium

    and adding:

    Buffy v. Jenny - this lasted a very short time and was just Buffy being angry for a while
    Spike v. Illyria - this was an antagonistic relationship? I remember it mostly as comic relief
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Buffy v. Andrew
    Angel v. Eve
    Oz v. Veruca- as stated before

    Angel v. Hamony- I agree with Stoney that no one takes Harmony seriously enough for her to be a decent antagonist. He took the time out in an apocalypse to write a letter of reference, indeed.

    Buffy v. Forrest- It's a real grudge on Forrest's part but it's soooo annoying and I don't think we needed to spend as much time on it to drive a message that Riley was alienated from his friends. Forrest repeats poisonous, slanderous bile against Buffy and we never get any kind of catharsis of her telling him off or him changing his mind.

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    Repeating:

    Buffy v. Forrest --- everything Dipstick said, it's annoying and poisonous and never gets full closure. He was *so* hateful towards Buffy and it didn't seem appropriately matched to the situation, and then boom! he's killed. And the tensions of that weird hatred are never really resolved.
    EDIT: Anya vs Olaf --- It's just boring (to me.)

    New additions:

    Buffy vs Willow --- I don't really see them as antagonists unless I'm missing something - there was that brief period at the end of S6 between DW & Buffy, but I'm not counting that as a "Willow-Buffy" thing because DW isn't Willow and even then, they weren't really 'antagonists' as much as Willow grappling with apocalyptic grief. Buffy-Willow to my mind represent an incredibly strong friendship.
    Buffy v. Anya --- I just generally don't enjoy it, it's painfully brittle when it happens, especially certain moments from S7.
    Oz vs Veruca --- I love Wild at Heart with a passion, plus I love the fact that Oz fights firmly against Veruca and puts her in her place, but I don't like how it's portrayed that Veruca offers some kind of 'wildness' appealing to Oz's "werewolf" side that he apparently has to fight against - it feels like manufactured angst because Oz (Seth Green) had to go. Plus I just...don't like Veruca?
    Last edited by SpuffyGlitz; 15-02-19 at 03:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpuffyGlitz View Post
    Repeating:

    Buffy v. Forrest --- everything Dipstick said, it's annoying and poisonous and never gets full closure. He was *so* hateful towards Buffy and it didn't seem appropriately matched to the situation, and then boom! he's killed. And the tensions of that weird hatred are never really resolved.
    Buffy v. Darla --- echoing TTB

    New additions:

    Buffy vs Willow --- I don't really see them as antagonists unless I'm missing something - there was that brief period at the end of S6 between DW & Buffy, but I'm not counting that as a "Willow-Buffy" thing because DW isn't Willow and even then, they weren't really 'antagonists' as much as Willow grappling with apocalyptic grief. Buffy-Willow to my mind represent an incredibly strong friendship.
    Buffy v. Anya --- I just generally don't enjoy it, it's painfully brittle when it happens, especially certain moments from S7.
    Oz vs Veruca --- I love Wild at Heart with a passion, plus I love the fact that Oz fights firmly against Veruca and puts her in her place, but I don't like how it's portrayed that Veruca offers some kind of 'wildness' appealing to Oz's "werewolf" side that he apparently has to fight against - it feels like manufactured angst because Oz (Seth Green) had to go. Plus I just...don't like Veruca?
    SpuffyGlitz, Buffy v Darla is already out. Did you mean Buffy v. Jenny or Buffy v. Knights since you were agreeing with TTB?

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    Oops! Sorry about that. I'll just edit my post with a new one.
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