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Thread: Season 12: plot holes, goofs, continuity errors and easter eggs

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    Default Season 12: plot holes, goofs, continuity errors and easter eggs

    I know we are getting flooded with season 12 threads at the moment, but I wanted to have mine as well :-)

    This thread is not to discuss, what you dislike about season 12. Itīs just to collect plot holes, goofs and errors on the one side but also the little funny easter eggs on the other side.

    As for the errors: maybe they aren`t Errors. If you have an explanation for them, please enlighten me.

    1. Faith is being accepted at the Police Academy despite being a convicted murderess and not even having served her sentence.

    2. Buffy`s criminal record is a tad better. She only committed bank robbery. But That happened in Switzerland, didn`t it? Maybe the Swiss Police forgot to get an Interpol warrant?

    3. If the future is now bright and shiny and all the Radiation and pollution did not happen (thanks to Willow`s women empowerment Center), how come Gunther is still a mutant?

    4. How could Melaka hold down Harth, although she lost her slayer power and he had the power and supernatural strength of all the slayers?

    5. Why didn`t Buffy lose her Slayer power, when Harth took the Scythe from her?

    6. Illyria transformed back to her demon form. Fred was still around, because she and Illyria shared her body. So, with fred`s body gone, Fred is gone too, isn`t she? It wouldn`t make sense to me that she now share Illyria`s body. What do you think?

    7. Harth had all the Slayers memories. Why didn`t he remember, that he couldn`t hold the power of all Slayers after he took the Scythe from Buffy? He should have avoided that move.

    8. We have talked endlessly about the problems and paradoxes of time travels before and during season 12. There were three possibilities - What happened happened, Back To The Future and Multiverses - , explained by DanSlayer here:

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...rse#post720734

    Does the ending of season 12 mean, they went for the Back To The Future Method? What I still don`t understand - but time travel gives me a headache - is, how Harth could go back in time, when he never existed, because going back in time changed his present and wiped out his existence?

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    All very good questions! The only ones I can think of a sensible explanation for are 4 and maybe 6.

    4. Fray could hold Harth because he was much weakened by his reaction to "feeling" the Slayer memories.

    6. Illyria may be able to switch back and forth between her old and new form.

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    I agree with DD Fray was holding down Harth because he was weakened. I think he was supposed to be lost in the painful memories.

    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    5. Why didn`t Buffy lose her Slayer power, when Harth took the Scythe from her?
    The plan was to give Buffy all the other slayers' power, so hers wasn't taken from her because she was about to gain all the others.

    7. Harth had all the Slayers memories. Why didn`t he remember, that he couldn`t hold the power of all Slayers after he took the Scythe from Buffy? He should have avoided that move.
    I think the idea was that Harth was changing history from how it had first played out. The problem then comes in him not instantly getting the updated memories for how history played out in the revised time. I would have argued that this is because the 'new' timeline is yet to run its course. But as I just pointed out on the other thread, this should mean it isn't possible to go to the future for Fray/Erin if that were true. So I think it just creates a different hole.

    Time travel is too confusing.

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    1. I really don't know. It's mentioned in A & F S9 that Giles used his connections so she's not wanted anymore.
    2. Dowling and his partner mentioned they couldn't see most of Buffy's record either; redacted by higher ups in the government.
    4. They did say after the depowering that Fray could still hold the demons back as she had her powers from the future.
    5. It was the extra power from the other Slayers I'd guess. Buffy's base level powers stayed with her.
    6. Didn't act like Fred was dead so maybe Illyria has a little pocket somewhere?
    7. Apparently in the OG Reckoning that caused Fray's dysphoria Harth was taken to hell with Buffy. His uber power up was the change and for some reason Fray didn't have Slayer memories beyond it either afterwards.
    8. Of the 3, yes. It's not WHH since Harth changed the outcome. It's not multiverse since the eras are still directly linked. I suppose it *might* be like Harry Potter banishing the Dementors at the lake. He saved himself from them and mistook his Patronus Charm for his father. Once he realized his father wasn't coming he pulled it off because he knew he would be saved at the lake?

    So in order for the changed utopia to be created, Harth still had to exist somehow to give Willow and the others motivation to change Fray's world?

    When I can follow this from an official source and still have a better understanding then the previous Buffyverse stories, something is off kilter: http://i.imgur.com/nL11vi6.jpg

    James Marsters as the green one explaining all that in video form: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5NdSvSOJk8

    Time travel can make sense but The Reckoning and Angel S11 are too sloppy.
    Last edited by DanSlayer; 22-09-18 at 05:18 AM.

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    1. Faith is being accepted at the Police Academy despite being a convicted murderess and not even having served her sentence.
    That could be arranged by the authorities, since Slayers and the Supernatural Division are a case apart. But yeah, thinking about that, Faith murdered a 100% innocent human being (just to mention one of her crimes), and didn't pay for that. But she could have been pardoned by the President, I don't know. I wonder what the professor's daughter think about the whole thing, though.

    2. Buffy`s criminal record is a tad better. She only committed bank robbery. But That happened in Switzerland, didn`t it? Maybe the Swiss Police forgot to get an Interpol warrant?
    In S9, Buffy said she had to turn the money back, Riley was able to make a deal, or something like that.

    3. If the future is now bright and shiny and all the Radiation and pollution did not happen (thanks to Willow`s women empowerment Center), how come Gunther is still a mutant?
    Yeah, that's a problem. Such a mutation would only happen after some MAJOR disaster.

    4. How could Melaka hold down Harth, although she lost her slayer power and he had the power and supernatural strength of all the slayers?
    He was weakened by the visions.

    5. Why didn`t Buffy lose her Slayer power, when Harth took the Scythe from her?
    She is the one who shares Power, and takes it back, she's the source of it. I didn't understand why, after Harth's death, the Power simply returned to the Slayers. Or how he was able to give Fray the dreams. Well, it's magic.

    6. Illyria transformed back to her demon form. Fred was still around, because she and Illyria shared her body. So, with fred`s body gone, Fred is gone too, isn`t she? It wouldn`t make sense to me that she now share Illyria`s body. What do you think?
    Illyria is able to change form, she did change in Angel After the Fall without destroying Fred's body. Spike even joked about it: Illyria, have you lost weight (when she returned to her human form). So I believe Fred is alive, maybe dormant?

    Spoiler:


    7. Harth had all the Slayers memories. Why didn`t he remember, that he couldn`t hold the power of all Slayers after he took the Scythe from Buffy? He should have avoided that move.
    Because he changed the future by using the staff and taking the Power; in the future that was supposed to happen, he probably was sent to the hell dimension with Buffy and all the demons - it was what he remembered.

    8. We have talked endlessly about the problems and paradoxes of time travels before and during season 12. There were three possibilities - What happened happened, Back To The Future and Multiverses - , explained by DanSlayer here:

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...rse#post720734

    Does the ending of season 12 mean, they went for the Back To The Future Method? What I still don`t understand - but time travel gives me a headache - is, how Harth could go back in time, when he never existed, because going back in time changed his present and wiped out his existence?
    Headache here, too, so I just accept it as it is.
    Last edited by betta; 23-09-18 at 08:18 PM.
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    6. Illyria transformed back to her demon form. Fred was still around, because she and Illyria shared her body. So, with fred`s body gone, Fred is gone too, isn`t she? It wouldn`t make sense to me that she now share Illyria`s body. What do you think?
    To add to what Betta and others have said, at the end of A11 Fred and Angel walk home. Both cast a shadow but Fred's shadow is that of the demon. I think Frillyria is much more closely integrated than we imagine.

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    betta
    He was weakened by the visions.
    Yes, but Harth, who has all the Slayer powers should, even if he is weakened, still be stronger or at least as strong as Melaka, who has no super powers at all. It`s a weakened supervillain against a normal human. It should still tip the scales in his favor.

    I was thinking about something else, that seems to be a plot hole. When Illyria goes through the portal, Angel demands that Dawn and Willow re-open it. They can`t, because they are weakened and exhausted. A couple of days later they obviously feel better, because they open a portal for Erin and Melaka. Shouldn`t they have opened the portal to the hell dimension, where Illyria is stuck, instead? It`s not really important to Melaka and Erin to get back to the future as soon as possible. Nobody is waiting there for them. It would make no difference, if they had to wait another couple of days. It seems to me, rescuing Illyria/Fred would have been more important than sending Erin and Melaka back.

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    Without having reread it I think there was a question over the risk of opening the portal without a mass of the other demons coming back through. I think Angel makes a comment about her telling him to not go after her so being sure that she would want to reduce the numbers before they risked opening a portal to try and get her back. But I might be misremembering it.

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    Yes, it was mentioned that Angel didn’t want to open the portal for fear of unleashing the demons. He wanted Illyria to have sufficient time to kill them. Problem is, there is no communication possible at all. How long will it take Illyria to kill those demons? Three months? A year? A hundred years?

    In fact, how many demons are native to that dimension? Is she killing 7 billion demon citizens assuming that dimension is similarly populated to ours? How does time pass there?

    With zero communication, how can Angel possibly know when is the “right” time to go rescue her? Just when his gut feeling tells him to?

    I can understand the reasoning for not going straight back there to rescue her, but it’s pretty weak reasoning.

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