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Thread: New Buffy series from BOOM! officially announced!

  1. #361
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    There is going to be way to many covers for me to do a cover gallery thread like I did for the Buffy Season comics.

    I had the same issue with Angel:After The Fall.Too many variant covers for each issue to make a thread.

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    We're going full Kelvin timeline here, huh?

    Banner by LRae12

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  5. #363
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
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    Was there ever any doubt that’s what they’d do? I speculated early on that they’d follow the same approach they took with their Power Rangers books. Familiar characters placed in a new story that is not restricted by the canon of the show, the DH books or the IDW books.

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  7. #364
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    To use a DC Comics metaphor, Seasons 1-12 were Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, and this is going to be Pre-Crisis Earth-One.

  8. #365
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippcomet View Post
    To use a DC Comics metaphor, Seasons 1-12 were Pre-Crisis Earth-Two, and this is going to be Pre-Crisis Earth-One.

    I wouldn’t even go that far. DC’s Earth 1 and Earth 2 existed side by side in the same shared multiverse with occasional crossovers. This is not gonna be the case for the Buffyverse. Dark Horse Buffy is never going to do a multiverse hop into the Boom! Buffyverse and meet her younger counterpart. Satsu and Billy are never going to cross paths with Boom original characters. It’s a licensed product that has changed hands and is being reinterpreted. If you want to compare it with DC’s multiverse, then technically the movie with Kirsty Swanson would be Earth 1, the show and comics (seasons 1 - 12) would be Earth 2, then you could argue that all the non-canonical materiel all take place in their own Earths, etc.

    But this has never been a shared multiverse. It’s more akin to what has happened with the Spider-man movies. There’s the Toby Maguire series, the Andrew Garfield series, and now the Tom Holland MCU series. They may take inspiration from what came before, and certain core attributes for the characters will remain the same, but each time it has been a different retelling where the story has gone in different directions, without being restricted by what came before.

    The closest the Buffyverse has ever come to utilizing a multiverse is the two episodes where the Wishverse was used. A hypothetical Dark Horse season 13 could bring back Vamp-Willow, sure. But it’s doubtful that Kirsty Swanson Buffy and her flying vampires were in the universe next door waiting for a crossover. Broad Strokes of that story were used as backstory for the TV Buffy and some details were tweaked while others were ignored.

    What’s happening to the BtVS license right now has happened countless times with other properties.

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  10. #366
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    Got another cover for you. Don't think we've seen this one before, apologies if I'm repeating



    http://www.comicon.com/2018/12/05/sc...layer-3-cover/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just read that the first issue has been pushed back to 23rd January

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    I don't suppose the trade will have all these covers in it do you think???? Some of them are fantastic.

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    Fanart about the new designs on the Boom Buffy comics:



    Found it here
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

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    All caught up.

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.





    My previous posts in this thread (this is my first ‘run through’/“All caught up” since post #22):

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post733030 (post #22).

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post733610 (post #97)

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post733634 (post #103)

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post733657 (post #119)

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post736302 (post #244)

    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post736497 (post #289)





    * Have people forgotten there are other dimensions in the Buffyverse? The Wishverse was simply something created by Anya for Cordelia’s wish. These new BOOM! comics can easily be labelled canon. It’s a dimension where the Buffyverse characters we know simply ‘were born’ later in ‘history’.

    Or it could be something the Powers That Be did and/or the Embodiment of Magic and/or Seed. Buffy and Faith have stopped being Slayers? There isn’t another ‘true Slayer’ for 200 years? Angel was never punished for being Twilight? Screw that. Let’s have Buffy and Co. ‘start again’ in 2019 A.D. (And let’s wipe Angel from existence? And no Dawn to mess up Willow’s magic potential?)



    * Sunnydale is based on an upper-middle class or maybe even lower-upper class California beach town. Not all of Southern California towns are “diverse” and/or have many Latino people.

    http://www.usa.com/malibu-ca-population-and-races.htm

    http://www.usa.com/santa-monica-ca-p...-and-races.htm

    http://www.usa.com/hermosa-beach-ca-...-and-races.htm

    http://www.usa.com/montecito-ca-popu...-and-races.htm

    http://www.usa.com/santa-barbara-ca-...-and-races.htm


    And remember that these and such cities were less diverse in 1997 A.D. through 2003 A.D. than they are nowadays.



    * https://www.cbr.com/buffy-comic-vari...entity-theory/

    Faith Lehane is White and she looks like Eliza Dushku. It’s always annoying when major characters change ‘race’ or ethnicity to simply have a more ‘diverse’ cast. Create new characters if you want more diversity. Or make someone like Rona not-so-annoying.



    * I still consider these comics are a test to see how much damage to certain characters post-BtVS S8 caused. Comics aren’t the big money. Disney may want to make cartoons, TV series, maybe movies, etc.

    And they could see if a remaster of BtVS S1-S7 is worth it.



    * I don’t understand the desire to see “new characters” instead of Buffyverse characters. The entire post-“Not Fade Away” (A 5.22) comics are largely simply to link the TV Buffyverse and the Frayverse.

    Disney would have never needed to bother with the BtVS and AtS licenses if it simply wanted to make new Slayers and witches and stuff without ever actually mentioning Buffy, Willow, etc.

    Joss Whedon hasn’t even done a Fray movie or TV series. The Buffyverse is what the audience wants, not some offshoot.



    * Regarding ‘in-between episode’ stories, how many on Boards ever mention Ring of Fire ? Spike & Dru: “Paint the Town Red” , or Spike: Asylum and Spike: Shadow Puppets ? The Tales of the Slayers and Tales of the Vampires graphic novels are almost never mentioned and many still haven’t read any of these. The Origin is barely mentioned. Fray is barely mentioned outside of when Melaka Fray showed up in the BtVS S8-12 comics.



    * The Buffy/Spike relationship in the TV Buffyverse pre-BtVS S4 is heavily because of Drusilla’s ‘illness’ and Spike’s needing to save Dru.

    Spike’s interest in Buffy is largely because his ‘lady love’ was dying and his interest back in Dru is largely because of the Angel/Drusilla dynamic.

    Spike/Drusilla is still popular—albeit nowhere near as popular as Buffy/Spike--; consequently, Spike/Dru can be together in the comics for years if need be. Problems will only arise if either Spike or Dru is ever permanently killed off.


    * The Spike/Dru dynamics in BtVS S2 are largely because one was ‘injured’ and the other wasn’t. And unless Willow is already a powerful witch, if power-levels are comparable to how they are in the TV Buffyverse, wouldn’t Buffy and Co. be relatively easily killed if Spike/Dru want them dead?


    * Unless BOOM! does things differently from Dark Horse, the covers aren’t ‘canon’. They are marketing material and not much more.


    * Willow was bullied in the TV Buffyverse? In “Welcome to the Hellmouth” (B 1.01), Cordelia mocks Willow’s clothing but that mocking greatly implies that Willow could be somewhat or simply popular and a ‘guy magnet’ if she simply dressed better.

    Willow is not punished AT ALL by Cordelia in or after “The Harvest” (B 1.02) after Willow has Cordelia delete Cordelia’s hard work on an assignment.

    By “The Witch” (B 1.03), Cordelia is freely talking to Willow almost as if Willow is an equal.

    So, yes, Willow’s simply dressing better and having more confidence would have her be even less ‘bullied’. Willow’s insecurity regarding her ‘coolness’ was largely in comparison to how she viewed those like Cordelia and Buffy.


    * Feminism means girls and women should be considered equal to boys and men, respectively, not exclude boys and men. BtVS wouldn’t have been more feminist if the Core 3 or Core 4 included Cordelia instead of Xander or Giles.



    https://comicbook.com/comics/2018/11...ter-designs/#7


    * I like the character designs and I consider the artwork is a great indicator that the artwork in the comics won’t be terrible. It seems an improvement over Georges Jeanty’s artwork and over some other artists for the Buffyverse comics.

    - Overall, except for maybe Willow Rosenberg and Drusilla, they look like the TV actors who played them.


    BUFFY ANNE SUMMERS:

    * I like her wearing sensible shoes and not wearing micro-miniskirts. She appears always ready for slaying.


    WILLOW ROSENBERG:

    * She seems more ‘hip’ and sexier than she ever appeared in the TV Buffyverse (maybe outside of Vampire Willow). I like it.


    ANYA:

    * I’m not sure if she’s going to appear so early, as she’s only a member of the Scooby Gang because her ‘Wishverse’ backfired, Xander was broken up with Cordy, and Anya decided to date Xander.

    Unless she’s an early villain, I’m not sure why she’d be a Scooby so early.


    SPIKE:

    * His eye color is wrong.


    DRUSILLA:

    * Like with Buffy, I like that Drusilla is wearing pants instead of a miniskirt. Dru’s ditched the dresses and Victorian look? Or maybe this is simply her business attire and she has other types of clothing in her wardrobe. I like the hair.


    * Dru’s eye color is wrong.




    Vampire in Rug

    * BtVS is based on a TV series. It’s always been a problem that we still don’t know exactly when after “Chosen” (B 7.22) BtVS 8.01 begins, how long BtVS S8 lasted, when BtVS S9 began, how long that lasted etc.

    Given the various possibilities of timelines, Buffy at the end of BtVS 9.25 is either in her mid 20’s or early 30’s or whatever.


    * These new comics will likely simply have the ‘new Buffyverse’ begin in 2018 A.D. or 2019 A.D.

    _________________________________________

    Boom is never going to tie itself into the Dark Horse crap
    The Buffyverse of Dark Horse only became “crap” sometime after BtVS 8.39.

    I assume you don’t mean ALL the Dark Horse stuff is crap.

    _________________________________________

    I doubt they’d want to rehash the plot with Glory and the Key, so it’s entirely possible that Buffy in the Boomverse just always had younger sister.
    BtVS S5 is generally considered the best Season of BtVS. Why not do the Glory and the Key storyline? What’s the point of Dawn outside her ‘Key’ status? And Dawn isn’t much first liked until BtVS S7 and that’s simply because of Michelle Trachtenberg being older and more developed and Dawn’s being a mini-Watcher now.


    * Angel being sired at 18-21 years of age doesn’t make much difference regarding Buffy/Angel if Angel still has existed over 200 years.

    And if Angel first meets Buffy when she’s 17 or 18 years old, would it be likely she’d still be a virgin?


    * Kendra Young is a very important character because she shows a contrast to Buffy. The importance of Faith Lehane is largely because of the contrast with Buffy.


    * Why have “multiple Slayers right from the beginning”? Why change such a fundamental part of the Buffyverse?

    And, BTW, multiple Slayers mean no need for Angel, Xander, pretty much the entire Fang Gang, etc.

    The whole point of the Scooby Gang is Buffy was better off with help. Multiple Slayers means much less need for help from non-supernatural beings.


    * The only importance of Darla is that Angel killed her to save Buffy. She’s used in AtS mostly to give Angel a love interest that viewers wouldn’t ever consider was an actual challenge to Buffy/Angel.

    And Darla’s never popular. Literally her most popular act is dusting herself to give birth to the unpopular Connor.


    * Spike wouldn’t be popular if he wasn’t ‘likable’ from the beginning.


    * Unless AtS happens at BOOM!, I’m not sure why any AtS characters would be introduced. Much of Illyria is based on Winifred Burkle. She’s tolerated by Angel and Co. and by Spike because they cared for Fred.


    * Mayor Richard Wilkins is mostly only important because of the Faith-Mayor dynamic. The Master, Adam, Glory, and the First Evil are all more important to the Buffyverse.


    * Joss Whedon created the Scythe. The Scythe makes Buffy and later Melaka Fray special. Why abandon it?

    _________________________________________

    * Sarah Michelle Gellar/Prinze has a “likeness clause” or whatever. She needs to approve of artists who draw Buffy.

    _________________________________________

    * If the BtVS license wasn’t valuable, Disney wouldn’t bother publishing BtVS comics.

    _________________________________________

    Also, the High School setting is iconic, it’s what most casual fans are most familiar with. I’d argue that it offers the greatest selection of characters too.
    The total BtVS audience is probably around 15-20MM people worldwide. Most of those people have seen all the Seasons.

    But the biggest comics sellers in the Buffyverse are those comics that ADDED to the Buffyverse. Fray , Tales of the Slayers , Tales of the Vampires , BtVS S8, BtVS S9: Willow: Wonderland , etc.

    Even the non-canonical Spike vs. Dracula ‘added’ to the Buffyverse.

    Heck, a main reason the Serenity comics sell so well is because they generally all add to the ‘Fireflyverse’.


    - Disney’s calculation is likely simply to use the BOOM! comics to ‘test the waters’ for more profitable endeavors: TV series, movies, etc.


    - Regarding the “greatest selection of characters”, most of the main popular characters in BtVS S1-S3 are still alive after BtVS S3.

    _________________________________________

    * Joss Whedon has made a bunch of money for 20th Century Fox Entertainment and for Disney. His name and involvement are important to Whedonverse projects. He’d likely get a ‘heads up’ or a ‘consult’ on what Disney was planning for the Buffyverse.



    Lostsoul666

    * Angel got to live after BtVS 8.39. It’s easily argued that Faith and most of the rest of the Buffyverse characters were more “screwed over” by Dark Horse than Angel was.



    Josh

    * Post-Season 9 is directly opposed to previously established canon. It’s not necessary to read.



    Alce

    * Outside of maybe “Smashed” (B 6.09), Willow Rosenberg’s ‘power level’ is never a problem for the Buffyverse. And she never seems as powerful post-BtVS S8 expect maybe in Quor-Toth (A&F S9).

    - The only problems with ‘power levels’ are Xander and Dawn fighting New Rules Vampires and not dying and Giles’s magical powers in BtVS S10 and after.

    _________________________________________

    As for Xander, he's a normal guy and had talked as one.
    Buffy is one of Xander’s two best friends and Cordelia eventually becomes and then is his girlfriend. Even at the time, it was inappropriate and somewhat cringeworthy how he addressed them and spoke of them.

    He says Cordelia dressed like a hooker and that Buffy perhaps was one.

    _________________________________________

    * Cordelia didn’t exactly drive a “nice” car in BtVS S2 and BtVS S3. “Rich” kids drove BMWs, MBs, Porsches, etc.

    _________________________________________

    * Joss Whedon is at least somewhat involved with the BOOM! BtVS comics; consequently, the audience will care about ‘shipping concerns.

    Season 12 left Buffy/Spike, Buffy/Angel, and Buffy/someone else open.

    _________________________________________

    * The Triangle is the reason there was so much discussion in the Season 12 comic threads and is a major reason why BtVS is still part of popular culture.



    a thing of evil

    * The Twilight stuff was popular and so was The Vampire Diaries . TV Buffyverse Buffy/Angel is still popular. I’m not sure how Buffy/Angel is comparatively “not tolerable”. Simply make Buffy less naïve and virginal.

    _________________________________________

    I doubt that. I think that Angel and possibly Willow are both more popular than Spike. Angel, because he's had his own TV show, like, come on. Willow because Aly, also check out that Buzzfeed quiz, Willow's basically as popular as Buffy.
    That Buzzfeed quiz has Spike having around a 45 point margin OVER Angel. Angel is less popular than Spike. Willow is less popular than Spike.



    flow

    * Given the timeline and The Origin , Buffy is likely 14 years old when Angel first sees her. She’s certainly not 16 years old. Angel saw Buffy when she was a Freshman in high school.

    _________________________________________

    * Angel was “planned to be Buffy’s first love” since “Welcome to the Hellmouth” (B 1.01) aired.

    There’s already Buffy/Spike stuff in “School Hard” (B 2.03).

    Buffy falling for Giles would be gross. Buffy falling for a werewolf wouldn’t make sense. A sorcerer? There goes some of the usefulness of Willow. And Willow’s magic use wasn’t much encouraged until it was needed. Willow’s first big spell is re-cursing Angel.

    A nice human fellow who gets turned? Would be dusted. Even Riley Finn would have likely been dusted. Angel and Spike are special because of who they are and who they are to Buffy.


    * Melaka Fray (Joss Whedon), Beck (Brian Lynch), and Morgan (Vincent Gischler (sp?)) are the best characters created for the comics. Few consider even Melaka Fray a better character than Spike.

    It would take extraordinary writing to make a Buffy pairing more compelling than Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike.

    _________________________________________

    [Regarding https://comicbook.com/comics/2018/11...ter-designs/#7:] Every female character is super super skinny. Why can’t they draw normal female bodies?
    The female characters all have “normal female bodies”. If you’re referring to the “average United States woman’s body”:

    https://www.racked.com/2018/6/5/1738...an-plus-market

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321003.php

    The ‘average’ woman in America is either overweight or obese.

    Regarding men: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320917.php?sr



    Priceless

    The new comics will have to be far more PC than the show because times have changed. The characters will have to be far more diverse if it's to be set in 2019 and there should be far more people of colour.
    There doesn’t NEED to be “far more people of color” and the characters don’t need to be “far more diverse”.

    Political correctness is a major problem in society nowadays. The BOOM! Buffyverse comics shouldn’t promote that and shouldn’t further that.

    It wouldn't surprise me if, instead of a gay character, Willow (or Xander) could be trans. It's currently fashionable subject in films and television.
    Fashionable? Trans people make up at most around 1.6MM of the United States population. And most studies have showed they simply have essentially a mental disorder. Relatively very few are truly born the wrong gender or are born with both ‘sex parts’ and the doctor or parent chooses the wrong one to ‘keep’.

    From an economic pov it makes sense to have a more diverse cast, to appeal to more readers, and it would leave itself open to major criticism if the cast were not diverse
    It make the most sense to have the main characters of the Buffyverse the race, sex, and sexual orientation they are in the TV Buffyverse. Other characters can be introduced who are more ‘diverse’

    _________________________________________

    I don't think having a diverse cast that represents the society we live in has to be preachy and heavy handed
    Maybe you meant “population” and not “society”.

    “Society” nowadays is controlled by a relatively small number of wealthy and powerful people.

    Heck, US President Barack Hussein Obama essentially governed as a Moderate Republican including his US Supreme Court picks are relatively Moderate.

    _________________________________________

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=CoIXzaZ3NV0 Life after high school doesn’t get better for everyone. Arguably, it got worse for the main popular girls of Sunnydale High School: Buffy Anne Summers, Cordelia Chase, and Harmony Kendall. And it gets worse in real life for many “cheerleaders”, “jocks”, etc.


    * Money is the only reason there is a BtVS S8 and after. Joss Whedon having so much relative control over the Buffyverse is because of money. His “canon-status” moniker means heightened sales. Juliet Landau managed to attach herself to Drusilla to the point that another can’t even write “Drusilla” comics.

    Money is the reason the following characters weren’t killed off like originally planned:

    Buffy Anne Summers
    Angel
    Alexander Lavelle Harris aka Xander
    William the Bloody aka Spike aka William Pratt
    Daniel Osbourne aka Oz
    Faith Lehane
    Tara Maclay lasted a Season longer than originally planned.

    Finally, money is the reason BtVS wasn’t cancelled, AtS exists, etc.

    _________________________________________

    * Podcasters aren’t representative of the viewership. And most ‘Spike hate’ comes from anti-Buffy/Spike people.


    * Giles is liked pre-BtVS S6. Not after.

    _________________________________________

    * Almost all podcasts don’t make much or any money. Most seem to exist to ‘waste time’ or simply put the podcaster’s views out there.

    _________________________________________

    * I’ve said negative things about Loki. The problem with him is the problem with Zuko in Avatar: The Last Airbender .

    - It’s not exactly the same, but a problem with Xander is that he too is too whiny. Xander has Willow and later has Cordelia and later has Anya and yet in BtVS S6 he’s still extremely bitter that he never got Buffy.

    _________________________________________

    Xander slut shaming Cordy, Angel stalking Buffy and Spike's AR are seen in a different light and are measured by different standards.
    For Xander, how about such things as the “Once More With Feeling” (B 6.07) spell and that he didn’t say anything about it until Buffy was already saved?

    Angel’s stalking underaged Buffy is one of the least evil things he’s done.

    Does anyone truly and rationally hate Spike more for the Attempted Rape than they do that he for years was trying to kill Buffy even though he was told he was in love with Buffy?

    _________________________________________

    In general I would say that Spike is not as popular as Buffy, Tara, Willow, Giles, Anya, Cordelia, Wesley, Fred, Faith or Angel.
    Umm…

    Seriously? Tara, Anya, Cordelia, Wesley, and Fred remain dead. Spike has been a fixture in the comics since BtVS 8.33.


    * Any online forum and perhaps even all online forums combined is not a random sampling of the Buffyverse viewers. Very few have the time and inclination to post on a forum.

    Heck, Firefly is much more popular among the general public than this forum would ever suggest.

    Anyway, https://ew.com/tv/2017/03/29/buffy-t...dition-covers/.

    Entertainment Weekly, while being pro-BtVS and pro-Buffy/Spike is still a moneymaking operation. Why not have covers of these other characters as well if they are so comparatively popular as Spike?

    _________________________________________

    * Riley is actively hated.


    * Xander’s not the most unpopular character.


    * Spike and Drusilla originally were going to return in BtVS S3. If anything, it’s more likely that if AtS didn’t happen that Angel would have simply remained in the hell dimension and Spike might still be brought back. Spike was liked by Joss Whedon and the writers.

    _________________________________________

    * There doesn’t NEED to be a Person of Color in the main cast.


    * Among BtVS viewers, Buffy/Spike is more popular than Buffy/Angel. And Spike’s been more popular than Angel since “School Hard” (B 2.03) aired. Among the comic book readers, Angel’s continuing to remain undusted depressed the sales of post-BtVS 8.40.

    It’s more likely that Angel would never be in the BOOM! BtVS comics than Spike’s never being in them. Drusilla also is popular.



    Sosa lola

    but when living in the times that treat slut-shaming as an unforgivable crime, you will get a Xander who does not slut-shame.
    How recent is slut-shaming not unforgivable? It was disgusting in 1997 A.D. It is not okay that Xander slut-shamed Buffy, Cordelia, and Anya.

    _________________________________________

    * Tumblr is Tumblr—you mostly only see what you want to see; and Google News is now geared toward what you already want to see.

    They aren’t representative of ‘the people’.

    _________________________________________

    * I don’t remember “slash fanfiction” EVER dominating the “fanfic world”. Buffy/Spike fan fiction has been the most popular fan fiction since BtVS S6 at-latest. And Buffy/Angel fan fiction has been either the first or second most popular fanfiction.

    And Spike/Willow used to be popular and have its own websites.


    I’m also not sure how ‘fan fiction sites I know of and/or visit’ somehow relate the popularity of characters ‘in fandom’?

    ‘Fandom’ forever seems to be synonymous with ‘whatever fans the person deem part of fandom’.



    HardlyThere

    * The most marketable thing would be to do away with post-BtVS S8 and start a new BtVS S9. Maybe keep BtVS S9: “Willow: Wonderland”.

    BtVS became more popular and more part of pop culture after BtVS S3. By the time Sarah Michelle Gellar announced she was leaving BtVS, it was treated on par with to even slightly above Jerry Seinfeld’s leaving Seinfeld and Tim Allen leaving Home Improvement .

    Plus, millions more have watched on DVD and through streaming. The series didn’t end after BtVS S3.

    _________________________________________

    * Donald Trump lost the Popular Vote by around 3 million votes. And Brexit is unpopular.


    * The Stranger Things kid in It is considered an annoying overcompensating nerd. And bullying in It is treated as a bad thing. And some of that bullying is well beyond ‘normal’ bullying.

    Tellingly though, a certain scene was cut because of its grossness in terms of male-female friendships/relationships.

    _________________________________________

    Honestly, Buffy fandom is only place I see a lot of Spike and Willow love. Both seem to get a ton of hate in gen discussions.
    What general discussions?

    _________________________________________

    * The media in general has always been very supportive of BtVS. Entertainment Weekly has always been very pro-BtVS. And EW seems to be pro Spike and pro-Buffy/Spike.

    Covers don’t necessarily automatically mean certain characters are more popular than others.

    _________________________________________

    * Liking Buffy/Spike doesn’t automatically mean liking Spike over Buffy.

    And the Buffyverse in BtVS S7 and afterward shows that Buffy loves Spike more than she loves Riley and more than she loves Angel.

    _________________________________________

    * IM)b used to be ‘The Buffy Board’—and the Sarah Michelle Gellar IM)b Board used to be the ‘mini Buffy Board’—and was generally the most popular and ‘general’ Board for the Buffyverse. It got new posters and certainly new readers all the time. Spike was the most popular character. There was very little Willow bashing. And the Board largely survived off of Spike vs. Angel and Buffy/Spike vs. Buffy/Angel stuff.

    Livejournal has never been a ‘general’ forum. You have to go to specific people’s forums and it seems you mostly argued among like-minded posters.

    _________________________________________

    * People are ‘wising up’ regarding politics. Donald Trump is relatively less popular. It seems likely US Senator Bernie Sanders or someone with his politics will win the US Presidency in 2020 A.D. And US House of Representatives-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the most popular congressperson (soon to be anyway).

    The people want Climate Change addressed. The people don’t like the US Tax Cut law. Etc.

    _________________________________________

    * For enough money, any of the Buffyverse people—barring David Boreanaz—would sign a contract to be on a new BtVS series.

    Sarah Michelle Gellar/Prinze’s endorsement was so baffling that I immediately assumed she may have some producer role for the new series and/or get highly lucrative guest starring episodes.



    cil_domney

    * The sales for Season 12 are likely below what the sales were for the non-BtVS writer written noncanonical pre-BtVS S8 comic books.

    Many would prefer to read a ‘reimagined’ BtVS comic than a continuation of Season 12.



    Stoney

    * Spike allowed the Buffyverse to exist after BtVS S2. Why would you not want him in the BOOM! comics?

    _________________________________________

    * Spike fans aren’t some very vocal minority of Buffyverse fans. He’s the most popular character in the Buffyverse.

    _________________________________________

    I used to find going on the board where Spike and Spuffy would get constantly blasted regardless of any consideration and almost in a constantly trollish fashion actually quite stressful in the end. I finally had that, 'what the heck am I doing here' moment.
    Which Board is that?

    I’ve always maintained that one has no arguments if one cannot defend one’s arguments.

    It’s always been fun defending Spike/Drusilla and Buffy/Spike and Spike. But it stops being fun when it becomes clear you are a target for being banned from a forum. I have zero interest in reading on and posting on a ‘closed’ forum.

    _________________________________________

    * I’ve never much cared how one debates, argues, etc. as long as one’s interpretations, considerations, arguments are reasonable and based on canon.

    My problem comes when arguments and/or discussion are clearly not based on canon or what is effectively canon.

    Then debate can become annoying, irksome, bothersome, and even aggravating.

    _________________________________________

    * From what we know Buffy the character knew in “Chosen” (B 7.22) and knew even in AtS S5—and it’s very possible SMG didn’t watch AtS S5—Buffy perhaps would choose Angel instead of Spike.

    The answer only became “Spike” among the audience because of BtVS S8.

    - Side note: Buffy/Spike vs. Spike/Drusilla is still an open question.

    _________________________________________

    * Joss Whedon was heavily involved in BtVS S8 before Dollhouse . He was involved in the abortion storyline in BtVS S9. He probably approved of Willow’s getting her magic back. And he approved of Buffy/Spike’s happening again in Season 10. He did the Giles miniseries.

    Relatively, he wasn’t much involved with the comics after the abortion storyline including that Joss didn’t want Spike’s leaving BtVS S9. That was a Scott Allie decision.

    Post-Season 9 has pretty much been the ‘Dark Horse’ Buffyverse and/or the ‘Gageverse’. And Christos Gage is almost certainly the reason Angel is so prominent in ‘Willow’s thoughts’ in BtVS S9: “Willow: Wonderland”.

    _________________________________________

    * What do you consider a “vast number of people”? Most of the Buffyverse audience greatly cares about canon.



    betta

    * BtVS S1 is considered one of the worst Seasons of BtVS. BtVS S5 is considered the best. BtVS S2 is liked largely for Spike and Spike/Drusilla. And BtVS S3 is largely liked for Faith.

    ‘The High School years’ in most times simply a euphemism for pre-Buffy/Spike. And Buffy/Spike is the most popular relationship in the Buffyverse.


    * Xander is never a popular character and Giles isn’t liked after BtVS S5.

    Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike are liked above the ‘O4’.


    It’s almost certain BtVS wouldn’t have gotten a BtVS S2 if Buffy/Angel didn’t exist in BtVS S1.

    _________________________________________

    * SMG used to be closer to James Marsters than she ever was to David Boreanaz.

    SMG simply liked Buffy/Angel more than Buffy/Spike. And Buffy/Spike wasn’t exactly a happy relationship in BtVS S6 and SMG and James don’t even have a single on-screen kiss in BtVS S7.


    * SMG was concerned BtVS might fail without Angel and Buffy/Angel. She lobbied Joss Whedon to have Buffy/Spike in BtVS S4 and she’s a principal reason James Marsters was made a regular in BtVS S4.


    * I have seen some dailies from BtVS S6.

    _________________________________________

    A reboot on TV makes more sense: new actors would give a new interpretation of the characters and story, at least.
    The kind of on-screen chemistry between Sarah Michelle Gellar and David Boreanaz, James Marsters and Juliet Landau, and SMG and James Marsters are extremely rare.

    Regarding TV, it was a different chemistry, but the closest outside of the Buffyverse that I’ve seen is between Blake Lively and Penn Badgely (sp?) back when they were dating during Gossip Girl .

    The Vampire Diaries is based on the “Love Triangle” and the chemistry between ‘The 3’ is nowhere near the chemistry shown on BtVS.

    _________________________________________

    * Arguably, Drusilla was “the [more] prominent person of the Sprusilla couple” until “Lovers Walk” (B 3.08) or maybe even “The Harsh Light of Day” (B 4.03).



    vampmogs

    Yeah, whilst I’ve always maintained that Spike isn’t *as* popular as hardcore fandom would suggest (both Season 3 of the TV series and Season 8 of the comics had the highest ratings/sales, thus proving the show can be at its most successful without him) he’s still a very popular character.
    BtVS had its best ratings in BtVS S6 if considering the ‘key demographics’ and ratings were around over 6MM from BtVS 6.01 to 6.08—the ‘Rated R’ Buffy/Spike sex kept younger viewers from watching. In addition, UPN had a smaller network than the WB—I remember that the CW network is essentially the old WB network and the UPN network was ‘spun off’. And there possibly wouldn’t have been a BtVS S3 without Spike’s being in BtVS S2.

    Post-Season 8 has the problem of how Angel is dealt with post-Season 8. How do you explain that a Spike comic that had no good reason to exist sold about as well as A&F S9?

    BtVS S3 had better picture quality than BtVS S2, the ‘how is Buffy/Angel going to break up’ and FAITH.

    And AtS S5’s ratings increased by over 1MM in the United States alone over AtS S4.


    * Spike became immediately the most popular character in the Buffyverse because his relationship with Drusilla made Buffy/Angel seem boring and uncompelling by comparison, Spike is fun and dynamic, and James Marsters is good-looking.


    * Remember DorothyFan ? She and I were the only 2 ‘major’ posters on this forum and on SA who said Willow would get her magical powers back and that she needed to get her magical powers back.

    _________________________________________

    Honestly, most people here wouldn’t last 5 minutes on ONTD. It’s brutal, vicious and cutthroat and you will be dog piled within minutes of disagreeing with the majority on any of these topics. You have to have an incredibly thick skin to survive on there and have the ability to be as ruthless back.
    It’s almost certain ONTD—whatever that is—doesn’t compare to IM)b in 2005 A.D. to 2011 A.D. or whenever.

    _________________________________________

    * The New York Times, The Washington Post, Reuters, The New Yorker, The Economist, and the Wall Street Journal are all much better places to ‘keep up on politics’ than some LiveJournal blog or whatever ONTD is.

    _________________________________________

    * If you consider Rebekah Isaacs’s art was “bad for the Buffyverse”, your standards for comic book art is very unrealistic.

    And BtVS was relatively “bright and cheery” in BtVS S3, BtVS S4, BtVS S5, and BtVS S7.

    _________________________________________

    * People love “The Wish” (B 3.09)? People like Vampire Willow, but few disapprove of her being killed off in “Doppelgangland” (B 3.16) because people love ‘Classic Willow’ much more.


    * Unless Disney is going to do something with the original actors from the TV Buffyverse, it’s almost certain that Joss Whedon is going to keep much of BtVS S8 as the official canon of the Buffyverse. Or at least the parts he was heavily involved with.

    _________________________________________

    * Many read BtVS S8.



    debbicles

    * In The United States, it was generally understood that The West Wing was getting awards instead of BtVS as an FU to US President George Walker Bush and the Bush Administration. It was literally political, and it forever tarnished the EMMY Awards.

    But it also clearly hurt the careers of Sarah Michelle Gellar and James Marsters that The West Wing actors got EMMYs and such and SMG and JM didn’t.

    Allison Janney may have deserved an EMMY (certainly not all the ones she got instead of SMG), but did any of the male actors deserve the EMMY over James Marsters?



    DanSlayer

    * Canon is not a fluid concept for Buffyverse viewers and readers. Most disregard BtVS S8 because they consider Angel would never do something like Twilight. Season 10 and thus post-Season 10 cannot be canon because too much contradicts and/or is incompatible with previously established canon.

    - Spike vs. Dracula is so liked largely because nothing in it contradicts and/or is incompatible with previously established canon.

    - A big problem with “The Girl in Question” (A 5.20) is somehow Angel forgets Buffy’s actual eye color and Spike cannot smell that “Buffy” isn’t actually Buffy. Albeit the latter is only a problem because of BtVS S8 and after.



    TriBel

    "Please let it be Faith....a dark reflection of what Buffy could become if she lost control of herself..." Way to diversify - make the black character the opposite of "friendly and strong-willed". I'm sure the modern black audience will be thrilled. I feel sick...
    Because a character is Black that somehow means the character needs to be perfect or that somehow means the character is sacrosanct?

    I’ve never been okay with such sentiment. Just like that is nothing wrong that Spike killed a Chinese Slayer, killed a Black Slayer, and fell in love with a Slayer version of himself.

    There’s nothing wrong that Drusilla killed Kendra Young proving how powerful Drusilla is. There’s nothing wrong that Tara Maclay had to die to get Willow Rosenberg to become Dark Willow.

    I’m more looking forward to the BOOM! comics than the possible new TV series, because the comics don’t seem as much “politically correct” and “social justice warrior”.

    _________________________________________

    And TBH, I really don't give a toss about what they do with the comic because after the debacle that was S12 I'm not interested enough to buy it.
    That doesn’t make sense. It’s not going to be a “Season 13”. It’s going to be a reboot starting in BtVS S1 happening in 2019 A.D. And it’s a new creative team and a new company.



    American Aurora

    * BtVS has strong male demographics. It’s not a franchise only for “tween girls”. During their TV runs, AtS was actually the series that had better female demographics until BtVS S6.

    I’d much prefer something really different than just a reboot - a continuation of the Slayer mythology with a new person, perhaps?
    Melaka Fray was the first ‘true’ Slayer since Buffy Anne Summers. And that was around 200 years after “Chosen” (B 7.22). You think a comic book writer could create an around as-compelling Slayer as Buffy, Faith, or Melaka?

    This just seems like pandering to me - it feels like the ticking off of boxes (modern technology - check; multicultural cast - check) while keeping the original framework instead of a true re-invention of the material. S
    Much of BtVS was “pandering”. It’s why certain characters who were originally supposed to be killed weren’t killed. It’s why Buffy/Angel exists after BtVS S2.

    My bitch, I guess, is with Whedon - who just doesn’t seem to give a s**t about the property anymore.
    MUCH more has been done with the Buffyverse than the Fireflyverse even though the Fireflyverse in recent years seems the bigger seller.

    Joss Whedon doesn’t fully own the Buffyverse. He cares enough that that one movie wasn’t made. He cares enough to have the possible reboot or whatever and this comic not be too bad.

    You cannot fault Joss too much for focusing on other projects that make him much more money and much more further this career than focus on comic book money.

    _________________________________________

    * What kind of police officers there are depends on the area in the United States.

    _________________________________________

    There’s also far too much cliched “Southern” culture and a bit of city/country bias - our anti-heroines calling the bad guys “rednecks” and such.
    City/country bias is a reality in the United States. And “rednecks” are a reality. Just look at political maps, demographics, etc.



    Skippcomet

    just from the POV of Season One's original airing, Willow/Xander was arguably the second most popular ship after Buffy/Angel, and Buffy/Xander wasn't entirely a fringe-only thing (yet).
    Buffy/Xander was always a “fringe-only thing”. It was never popular. Willow/Xander was also never popular—it was simply expected by some and Buffy/Angel was the only other ‘major’ ‘physical’ relationship in BtVS S1.

    (These were the days when the announcement that Wes would be joining the cast to replace Doyle was met with overwhelmingly negative response, when fans thought Seth Green would return, and when fans thought Anya was a poor substitute for Cordelia and wanted to know when Xander and Cordelia would reunited onscreen.)
    The Wesley of BtVS S3 wasn’t liked, but he became quickly popular in AtS. Almost no one thought Seth Green would return to BtVS given most viewers knew why Seth Green left. Xander/Cordelia was never popular. They only concern about Cordelia seeing Scoobies regarded the Scoobies seeing how much Cordelia ‘grew’ and ‘matured’.



    VampVorchan

    * Joss Whedon has likely made more money from Marvel than he has from the Buffyverse.



    BAF

    * Introducing Angel soulless should only be because of one or both the following reasons: to kill Angel off quickly and to have Buffy/Spike move more quickly than it did in the TV Buffyverse.

    As-is, Angel is ONLY a threat in the TV Buffyverse because of Buffy’s willingness to dust Angel. Both Drusilla and Spike are more powerful. A non-disabled Spike would probably simply dust Angel if Angel seriously tried to take Dru away from Spike. Dru favors Spike.


    * I consider Angel’s not being introduced so far as BOOM! acknowledgment of how much Angel post-BtVS 8.40 damaged the sales of the Buffyverse comics.

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    Yet another cover at, this time for issue number 3 apparently.


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    Isn`t this getting ridiculous?

    flow
    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=34707&dateline=152518  8054
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    Will you just hold me ?

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    No. It's awesome.


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    Cordy and Spike together! Okay, now I'm intrigued. I've always wanted to see regular interaction between the two of them. Ditto for her and Anya. I hate love triangles, but I would totally be here for one involving her, Xander, and Anya. The more I see/hear about this series, the happier I get.

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    Cordy and Spike . . . If the characterisations are kept the same as they were on the show, these two would kill each other. But it might be fun to watch.

    It's actually one of my least favourite covers so far. I'm not a fan of the colours, Cordy looks out of proportion (or maybe it's just the hair) and I don't like Spike's face at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    There doesn’t NEED to be “far more people of color” and the characters don’t need to be “far more diverse”.

    Political correctness is a major problem in society nowadays. The BOOM! Buffyverse comics shouldn’t promote that and shouldn’t further that.
    I agree with you, political correctness is an issue nowadays. But I do think there does need to be a more diverse cast to appeal to a more diverse audience. If they want to sell the comics to the widest audience, they have to appeal to a wider audience. People like to see themselves represented. It all depends on how they do it, and if it's too jarring and silly, I certainly won't be buying it.

    “Society” nowadays is controlled by a relatively small number of wealthy and powerful people.
    By society I didn't mean 'high society' but we as a group of people living together in an ordered way. Are you American? Maybe the Brits and Americans think of 'society' in a different way?

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    Calling it now - Spuffy is cancelled!

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Calling it now - Spuffy is cancelled!
    Now I see where you got your name I hope you are wrong . . . but if the girls are only 16 years old (or younger) I hope it at least leads to a friendship/allied relationship

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    MikeB

    * Feminism means girls and women should be considered equal to boys and men, respectively, not exclude boys and men. BtVS wouldn’t have been more feminist if the Core 3 or Core 4 included Cordelia instead of Xander or Giles.
    That's a very reductive definition of Feminism. Wiki lists 18 different types: Mainstream feminism, Anarchist, Black and womanist, Cultural, Ecofeminism, French, Liberal, Libertarian, Multiracial, Post-structural, Postcolonial, Postmodern, Radical, Separatist and lesbian, Socialist and Marxist, Standpoint, Third-world, Transfeminism.

    IMO, BtVS relies heavily on mainstream feminism for the first three seasons (which doesn't particularly interest me). Four is kind of a transition stage. In five it starts to get to grips with identity and loss. S6/7 are all about loss/identity/power. As far as I'm concerned, S5/6/7 are informed much more by post-structuralism. As an object of study it's more up my street, and, as a feminist text, I think BtVS is stronger for it. There's an interesting article here which suggests why the concept of "equality" is difficult for some of the movements mentioned above.

    https://qz.com/943068/the-future-of-...nt-than-power/

    A female watcher completely changes things. For instance, she couldn't play the "father figure" role (except at a very superficial level where "father figure" is just a figure of speech. And BtVS has never been superficial). There's no indication that female watchers have the level of power within the council as the men. Male watchers/masculinity "stand in for" all sorts of things (privilege, truth, history) that wouldn't be conveyed with a female in the role. It needn't make it "more feminist" (indeed, it could make it less) but it would change it.

    Because a character is Black that somehow means the character needs to be perfect or that somehow means the character is sacrosanct?
    No - it doesn't. What I was objecting to was the idea of having a black character who is "a dark reflection of what Buffy could become if she lost control of herself" because it's drawing on almost every negative stereotype of black women that exists. Savage and lacking self-restraint, promiscuous, angry, friendless, in need of redemption...the list goes on. Can't you see the problem here? "Dark reflection"!?...aargh!...everything a white women isn't. Here's a thought, let the black women be heroic, caring, self-sacrificing, a love interest, a character through which others are redeemed. Black writers write complex black characters; some white writers do the same. I thought Roux was a brilliant creation.

    Just like that is nothing wrong that Spike killed a Chinese Slayer, killed a Black Slayer
    I didn't say there was. On the contrary, I think it HAD to be a "foreigner" - some one completely "other" to Spike. I also think Buffy had to look like Anne. I think it was (probably) fortuitous that Spike's first words were "Home, Sweet Home".

    TriBel: And TBH, I really don't give a toss about what they do with the comic because after the debacle that was S12 I'm not interested enough to buy it.
    That doesn’t make sense. It’s not going to be a “Season 13”. It’s going to be a reboot starting in BtVS S1 happening in 2019 A.D. And it’s a new creative team and a new company.
    a) I didn't say it was S13 (though I wouldn't be surprised at an implicit connection). b) I watched the series and read the comics not because I like the stories (strange as it might seem - "story" isn't my prime concern) but because I was interested in what Spuffy represented. Not as a romantic coupling but as the coming together of opposing ideologies. In short, I find them intellectually engaging. Unlike many fans, I liked all the comics (even the Giles mini and A11). For me, there was, and still is, a logical coherence I find astonishing. In a sense, S12 let me down. The coherence was still there - once I'd adjusted to the "off the page stuff" nothing really took me by surprise. The end annoyed me. IMO, it was either rubbish or very clever. I can't decide which. It might be both at the same time (in which case, it's actually clever) but, for me, it felt like a cop-out. Buffy was sold as a feminist icon and I think, given the currant climate, she deserved an honest ending - I don't think she got it.

    thing of evil

    Calling it now - Spuffy is cancelled!
    Perhaps - perhaps not. I don't think the relationship will take the same form as it did in the original. However, a vampire - and everything he/she represents - may well be too important a vehicle for them to pass on. A vampire's very presence "queers" a text. I'll be surprised if they're there just to be staked.
    Last edited by TriBel; 07-12-18 at 02:23 PM.

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    A vampire's very presence "queers" a text.
    No.

    1. It depends on the text. The queer/sexual reading of a vampire myth has been largely dominant since Le Fanu's Carmilla but that's not the only reading. Like Saturn devouring his sons, vampires can also symbolize the idea of the old feeding on the young, by, say, hoarding resources or sending the youth to fight in their endless wars. Obviously, it's not a surprise that Hollywood defaults to the sexual vampire tropes. If want something with such a take on vampires start with this classic.

    2. It's 21st century, you don't need vampires to queer the text, you can just make it queer. For example, you could #makebuffybi We don't need subtext or metaphors, we're not bloody Victorians, no?

    3. Spuffy is not queer, it's a vanilla-ass, heterosexual YA cliche-parade. Like, stop, OK?

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    3. Spuffy is not queer, it's a vanilla-ass, heterosexual YA cliche-parade. Like, stop, OK?
    Seriously??

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Calling it now - Spuffy is cancelled!
    It would hardly be a shock as they are looking to do things differently, that's the point to a lot of it. The further they stray the more likely it is to be interesting/distinct rather than a poor copy of the original.

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