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Thread: Buffering & Angel On Top

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    Default Buffering & Angel On Top

    I really enjoy the Buffering podcast. Jenny and Kristen are both really positive, enthusiastic and funny, plus I love their jingles and songs that end the show. Their sister podcast is not so good, I don't like the two women who do it, they sound snide and mean and as though they've never watched Angel before. But this is just my personal preference, which is purely subjective.

    My issue is . . . am I a bad feminist because on the most recent Buffering podcast they highlighted the patriarchy (they have a great The Patriarchy jingle) and that one of the opening shots if of a woman's breasts. They sigh and moan about this, as they should do.

    But . . . on their sister podcast they have a segment called 'who I'd like to **** in this episode' and the two women announce who (or what, it could be just an object - I think they're trying to be funny??) they'd like to ****, and this is perfectly acceptable.

    Is it wrong that the cameraman is male, or that it's about the male gaze, but when it's women talking about other women's ****ability, it's ok? (All four female podcasters are lesbians/bi)

    I stopped listening to the AOT podcast because of this 'who I'd like to ****' joke. It reminds me of the 90' ladette culture in the UK. I also wonder if you can smash the patriarchy by becoming the patriarchy. Am I a bad feminist, a bad woman because I don't support other women pronouncing who they want to ****? Am I old and old fashioned and behind the times and is this the way women are nowadays?

    Does anyone else listen to these podcasts? What do you think of the issue? Am I being stupid and too sensitive and missing the point?

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    I also wonder if you can smash the patriarchy by becoming the patriarchy.
    How can four women talking about which women they find attractive be an example of the patriarchy? How can four women even "become" the patriarchy? As per Wikipedia: "Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property." Four women who are attracted to women and who are talking about women pretty much eliminates men from the equation entirely. There's nothing patriarchal about it at all

    I haven't listened to the podcast but I personally don't see anything wrong with these women being frank and honest about sex and who they are attracted to. However, if you find the way they discuss it to be crude that's a personal preference and that's ok. It may indeed be a generational thing. Personally, I think it's pretty great that we're finally at a place where they feel comfortable to express this and especially if they're all bi/lesbians as you say, as they're part of a group that has historically been marginalised in society (even more so than gay men) and who typically weren't "allowed" to be open and unabashed about who they were attracted to.
    Last edited by vampmogs; 15-08-18 at 12:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    How can four women talking about which women they find attractive be an example of the patriarchy? How can four women even "become" the patriarchy? As per Wikipedia: "Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power and predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property." Four women who are attracted to women and who are talking about women pretty much eliminates men from the equation entirely. There's nothing patriarchal about it at all

    I haven't listened to the podcast but I personally don't see anything wrong with these women being frank and honest about sex and who they are attracted to. However, if you find the way they discuss it to be crude that's a personal preference and that's ok. It may indeed be a generational thing. Personally, I think it's pretty great that we're finally at a place where they feel comfortable to express this and especially given that if they're all bi/lesbians as you say, that they're historically a marginalised group in society (even more so than gay men) who typically aren't given a voice to be unabashed about who they're attracted to.
    You are quite right. I didn't mean 'become the patriarchy', more ape it. And the women aren't talking about who they find attractive, they deliberately frame is as 'who I'd like to ****' - that is the language they use. But maybe it's the language and not the intent that bothers me, because of course when a man says he finds a woman attractive (straight men) what he means is that he can envision ****ing her . . . I guess I just don't like the thought of anyone talking about women in that manner, it's creepy, whether you're gay or straight.

    I guess the podcasts are aimed at gay people, and I am trying to enforce my straight attitudes on them. It's just that they are women that I felt included, but really I'm not.

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    Priceless, when did you stop listening to Angel on top? Because they did address the backlash and explained what their segment really was (Jenny even made a jingle for it). The way I see it, it has nothing to do with patriarchy. It's called *****watch" but it might as well be called "Crush watch". And they don't always pick women, they sometimes pick men, objects or abstract things.

    But I wouldn't say you're being too sensitive or stupid. It bothers other people as well so maybe there's something there. It just doesn't personally bother me because I've never felt that it was disrespectful towards women.

    I haven't listened to Buffering's latest episode yet but I'm glad they addressed how male gaze-y it is. When I rewatched it a couple of weeks ago, it barely felt like a Buffy episode to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mylie View Post
    Priceless, when did you stop listening to Angel on top? Because they did address the backlash and explained what their segment really was (Jenny even made a jingle for it). The way I see it, it has nothing to do with patriarchy. It's called *****watch" but it might as well be called "Crush watch". And they don't always pick women, they sometimes pick men, objects or abstract things.

    But I wouldn't say you're being too sensitive or stupid. It bothers other people as well so maybe there's something there. It just doesn't personally bother me because I've never felt that it was disrespectful towards women.

    I haven't listened to Buffering's latest episode yet but I'm glad they addressed how male gaze-y it is. When I rewatched it a couple of weeks ago, it barely felt like a Buffy episode to me.
    Yes I think it's just me Mylie, I'm old and I find the language difficult. I wish they'd change it to 'Crush Watch' I think I'd just old fashioned, and the thought of anyone, male or female, talking about how they'd like to **** someone, is just eww. There is sense that they have set out to shock, and I think they've belittled themselves and the product by doing that.

    Do you get the sense that they even like the show because sometimes I'm not sure they've even seen it more than once. To be honest, I haven't listened to all the episodes, so maybe I should go back and give them another chance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    You are quite right. I didn't mean 'become the patriarchy', more ape it. And the women aren't talking about who they find attractive, they deliberately frame is as 'who I'd like to ****' - that is the language they use. But maybe it's the language and not the intent that bothers me, because of course when a man says he finds a woman attractive (straight men) what he means is that he can envision ****ing her . . . I guess I just don't like the thought of anyone talking about women in that manner, it's creepy, whether you're gay or straight.

    I guess the podcasts are aimed at gay people, and I am trying to enforce my straight attitudes on them. It's just that they are women that I felt included, but really I'm not.
    Well I don't really see it as a 'gay thing' (other than that they're women talking about women of course) as I know a lot of straight women who talk about men like that as well. "Kill, Marry or F**k" is a pretty common game played by both sexes, at least in my generation, so it personally wouldn't stand out to me as being all that odd. However, I will say that as a gay person (and my experiences are definitely different in many ways to lesbians) it can be quite liberating when you feel comfortable enough to be so open with your sexuality. A lot of us spend so many years repressing that side of ourselves or hiding it from others that it can be pretty exciting to be vocal and open about it. You'll often find that gay people at times may talk more brashly or crudely about sex because of this as the feeling of doing so is so freeing. It's a bit like when a young kid learns a new curse word for the first time - they're going to say it. A lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mylie View Post
    I haven't listened to Buffering's latest episode yet but I'm glad they addressed how male gaze-y it is. When I rewatched it a couple of weeks ago, it barely felt like a Buffy episode to me.
    What episode are you referring to Mylie?
    Last edited by vampmogs; 15-08-18 at 12:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    Well I don't really see it as a 'gay thing' (other than that they're women talking about women of course) as I know a lot of straight women who talk about men like that as well. "Kill, Marry or F**k" is a pretty common game played by both sexes, at least in my generation, so it personally wouldn't stand out to me as being all that odd. However, I will say that as a gay person (and my experiences are definitely different in many ways to lesbians) it can be quite liberating when you feel comfortable enough to be so open with your sexuality. A lot of us spend so many years repressing that side of ourselves or hiding it from others that it can be pretty exciting to be vocal and open about it. You'll often find that gay people at times may talk more brashly or crudely about sex because of this as the feeling of doing so is so freeing. It's a bit like when a young kid learns a new curse word for the first time - they're going to say it. A lot.
    I guess that's something I've not really thought about. You are right of course, and I totally take on board that they have a new sense of freedom to talk brashly and openly about their sexuality. I don't think I'm the intended audience, so I perhaps shouldn't really comment.

    I guess I'm just being old fashioned. I hate to hear anyone talk crudely about who they want to ****. If two men were doing an Angel podcast and saying how they'd love to bang Cordelia, especially in the terms these women have spoken about female characters, I'd be disgusted. To me it makes no difference if you're male or female, talking like that is gross. The issue is obviously mine and not the podcast. I am going to try and give them another listen and be a bit more understanding

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Yes I think it's just me Mylie, I'm old and I find the language difficult. I wish they'd change it to 'Crush Watch' I think I'd just old fashioned, and the thought of anyone, male or female, talking about how they'd like to **** someone, is just eww. There is sense that they have set out to shock, and I think they've belittled themselves and the product by doing that.

    Do you get the sense that they even like the show because sometimes I'm not sure they've even seen it more than once. To be honest, I haven't listened to all the episodes, so maybe I should go back and give them another chance
    I think they like the show fine. They sounded like that on their Daria podcast as well. I think Brittany has seen it a couple of times but not in a while and Laura has never seen it, I think.

    I do want to add that I never once felt like they were objectifying women and that’s probably why it doesn’t bother me one bit. But I do wonder if you’ve listened to them address the issue because it might reconcile you with it?

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    Last edited by Mylie; 15-08-18 at 01:28 PM.

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    Jesus Christ, I've just tried listening to this Buffering the podcast (The Initiative) and where do these people come from? Granted a I only managed to reach the halfway point before needing a breather from their inane screeching, but do they have anything insightful to say? At all?

    What is it with these type of review, that they just obsesses over trivial things, the clothes, and continual obsession with sex? Must be their young age I suppose, when they've grown up a bit maybe they'll have something unique and insightful to say.
    Last edited by Silver1; 15-08-18 at 06:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Jesus Christ, I've just tried listening to this Buffering the podcast (The Initiative) and where do these people come from? Granted a I only managed to reach the halfway point before needing a breather form their inane screeching, but do they have anything insightful to say? At all?

    What is it with these type of review, that they just obsesses over trivial things, the clothes, and continual obsession with sex? Must be their young age I suppose, when they've grown up a bit maybe they'll have something unique and insightful to say.
    I think it might just not be for you because it’s not meant to be an in-depth analysis. But it’s definitely the best of that kind if podcast out there. It’s the most popular buffy podcast and they’ve appeared in more than 1 top lists of podcasts of the year. So clearly, they’re doing something right.

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    But it’s definitely the best of that kind if podcast out there
    Seriously? Dear lord thats depressing. How the standards have dropped down the years....

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    I do want to add that I never once felt like they were objectifying women and that’s probably why it doesn’t bother me one bit. But I do wonder if you’ve listened to them address the issue because it might reconcile you with it?
    I've been back and listened to their explanation of '**** watch' and it was convincing, and they promised not to objectify women. I then went on to listen to the ****-watches they'd done, and a lot of them weren't anything really to do with who they want to **** - some of them were objects, others were ideas and feelings, so nothing physical would be possible. So I've come to the conclusion that '**** watch' is being used simply for shock value.

    I have to be honest, i don't like it. I don't like them talking about wanting to **** characters and I don't like them using the word for shock value - it's disingenuous and apes how men have behaved forever. I don't care if it makes me a bad feminist - I can only feel how I can feel But they have got better at the podcast They actually disagreed about Sense & Sensibility and it was good to hear them discuss issues like adults, I shall continue listening and hope they keep improving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Jesus Christ, I've just tried listening to this Buffering the podcast (The Initiative) and where do these people come from? Granted a I only managed to reach the halfway point before needing a breather from their inane screeching, but do they have anything insightful to say? At all?

    What is it with these type of review, that they just obsesses over trivial things, the clothes, and continual obsession with sex? Must be their young age I suppose, when they've grown up a bit maybe they'll have something unique and insightful to say.
    How could you not love Detective Angel, and all those amazing jingles? The Spike jingle is my phone ringtone I think their style is really infectious. Jenny and Kristen are so enthusiastic about the show. They are so fun and positive, I love listening to them. I accept they don't do in-depth analysis (I prefer Lani for that) but they are interesting and imaginative. I love the music too. You can listen to the first three seasons of music on Spotify, and I'd highly recommend it.

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    I love the music too. You can listen to the first three seasons of music on Spotify, and I'd highly recommend it.
    Oh god I'd rather gouge my own ears out with a rusty spoon I'm afraid.

    I mean I'm sorry If I sound harsh, but why do these women come across as so full of themselves and so screechy? I don't know how old they are but they express themselves like unobservant teenagers high on their own opinions.

    Just little things got on my nerves, like Spike changed his boots? WTF of course he didn't, what show were you watching? I recommend before opening their mouths they do a quick bit of research. It's easy to do these days after all.

    Also making sweeping statements that we've all heard before (all the usual 'man hate' for certain characters thats just getting so damn old now. This show was made 20 years ago ladies. Get the hell over It! *sigh*
    Last edited by Silver1; 15-08-18 at 10:42 PM.

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    Oh god I'd rather gouge my own ears out with a rusty spoon I'm afraid.
    That did make me laugh.

    I accept it's not a case of one podcast fits all and respect your opinion

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