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Thread: OFFICIAL:Buffy Reboot - Monica Owusu-Breen: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

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    I'll reserve judgment until I see it, as I would any other reboot/sequel/continuation. Just because I've wanted the thing to happen doesn't mean I was going to mark out for anything they threw at us. I'm not sure they should even recast Willow, Xander, Angel, et al, and instead just surround their Buffy with original characters. I don't think much of the iconography of Buffy's core, essential character requires much around her that is specifically defined other than a Watcher, and that she have family (found or natural), but the rest is flexible as hell. But who knows, maybe a "built upon", read as "jackhammered and redone" mythology doesn't even have a Watcher per se, or in this case, the Watchers are purely antagonist to Buffy and have spent the generations trying to bring the Slayer to heel.

    I'd seriously go into this assuming that, mythologically, we're starting with a clean sheet of paper. Maybe not only called by death, maybe not only one girl in all the world, etc, etc.

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    Does that count as a reboot King? I would feel very differently about something that was reimagining the idea from scratch and creating new characters. I just have no interest in seeing the supporting characters I love recast, or their stories changed, not at all. I'd definitely rather it was a new slayer and not 'Buffy' too. As has been said, this idea that it is a reboot might not be what happens and personally, I'm not even sure it is clear what they would mean by it even if it is accurate. I'm possibly just being a dolt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Does that count as a reboot King? I would feel very differently about something that was reimagining the idea from scratch and creating new characters. I just have no interest in seeing the supporting characters I love recast, or their stories changed, not at all. I'd definitely rather it was a new slayer and not 'Buffy' too. As has been said, this idea that it is a reboot might not be what happens and personally, I'm not even sure it is clear what they would mean by it even if it is accurate. I'm possibly just being a dolt.
    That would be as much of a reboot as the Abrams "Star Trek". While the presence of Nimoy nominally confirms the universe's are the same apart from the inciting time travel event, it doesn't hold up to close scrutiny. The tech feels different, the physics feels different.

    I guess the answer to your question would be, does the TV show constitute a reboot of the movie? Because --
    • all characters different except Buffy herself (different city, different friends, different home/family situation).
    • major changes to the Slayer and vampire mythological rules (dusting, siring, arguable change of Slayer from a reincarnating being to the death-called lineage).
    • total redesign on the world-building (Watcher's Council replaces semi-immortal singular watcher; vampires tacitly "in public" from the end of the film vs. not at all during televised seasons.


    I would say that it's reasonable to expect the new show to change as much from the old one as the one one did from the movie. It doesn't matter that all that changed on first go was Joss' original screenplay to the finished film; at the end of the day for five years "Buffy" meant the movie. The Sarahverse (I'm gonna try it!) relied on the movie's cache with viewers of a certain age to draw in viewers just as the new one will on the Sarahverse.

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    Further thoughts:

    I've said this before when we discussed the possibility of a Buffy reboot with a diverse cast (does anyone remember that? I don't remember if it was its own thread or in the Random Buffy thoughts thread - I think it may have been the latter.) Not only would a black Buffy be just as much of a subversion of the horror trope (in this case, 'black chick dies first'), but I really hope that her personality is very similar to SMG's Buffy. Buffy Summers was such an original character because she was simultaneously an incredibly strong, kickass snarky hero who got to play into the same heroic tropes as male heroes get, and also someone with strong ties to friends and family and unabashedly a “girly girl” who is into things like fashion, wants to date and is deeply romantic. The new Buffy being black and all of these things would also subvert another trope, that of the one-dimensional “strong black woman who needs no man” and therefore never gets to have romantic storylines or be the romantic lead.
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    With apologies to Rona, Season 7 always did that trope wrong -- it's rarely if ever the black "chick" that dies first. I'm actually scrabbling to think of a single example. "Scream 2" a black chick dies second (AFTER the actual trope, the black guy dies first) and another dies much later. "I Still Know..." I don't think the black chick dies at all. Nothing leaping to mind from action/adventure.

    I get where you're going, with replacing the blonde girl being the hapless, helpless victim to the horror monster with subverting the other trope, but at least the first trope was framed accurately.

    Gonna add Logan Browning to the fancasting arena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    With apologies to Rona, Season 7 always did that trope wrong -- it's rarely if ever the black "chick" that dies first. I'm actually scrabbling to think of a single example. "Scream 2" a black chick dies second (AFTER the actual trope, the black guy dies first) and another dies much later. "I Still Know..." I don't think the black chick dies at all. Nothing leaping to mind from action/adventure.

    I get where you're going, with replacing the blonde girl being the hapless, helpless victim to the horror monster with subverting the other trope, but at least the first trope was framed accurately.

    Gonna add Logan Browning to the fancasting arena.
    You're being too literal. The point is that usually black characters get killed off early - not because the writers hate blacks or something, but for the simple fact that they are rarely main characters.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    You're being too literal. The point is that usually black characters get killed off early - not because the writers hate blacks or something, but for the simple fact that they are rarely main characters.
    To me this would be like saying you could have started off the whole Slayer premise with a nebbish try-hard of a boy being the Slayer since they are equally prone to getting wiped out as helpless victims in a horror movie as the blond girl. Arguably more likely, since there is no Final Girl alternative trope for them to fall into. The distinction is not a meaningless one.

    All I'm saying is let's not go fishing for tropes that don't apply as the new core subversion/central thesis of this version of "Buffy" -- because for all we know the new "Buffy" won't give a damn about subverting tropes to begin with. I don't think they are looking for some deeper literary justification of the new Buffy being black other than as an end unto itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    I think it's too early for a reboot because BtVS still has a strong fandom. But the new show sounds too different from the original that it might work, will there be Xander, Willow and Giles or different side characters? I'll be more interested if the other characters got rebooted as well. I don't watch BtVS for just Buffy, I'd be excited to see the new versions of Xander, Willow and Giles as well and also Angel and Spike and Cordelia.... etc. Same characters but a different take with different stories.
    Yikes, for me the very idea of new versions of the old beloved characters fills me with horror.
    There was nothing wrong with them in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Does that count as a reboot King? I would feel very differently about something that was reimagining the idea from scratch and creating new characters. I just have no interest in seeing the supporting characters I love recast, or their stories changed, not at all. I'd definitely rather it was a new slayer and not 'Buffy' too. As has been said, this idea that it is a reboot might not be what happens and personally, I'm not even sure it is clear what they would mean by it even if it is accurate. I'm possibly just being a dolt.
    I couldn't agree with you more. But not about you being a dolt.
    Last edited by debbicles; 21-07-18 at 03:36 PM.
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    Somehow, I don't really have any strong feelings about this. If its not fun, I'll just ignore it, if it is, I'll probably watch it, especially if the cast is attractive. We knew that Buffy was ending anyway 'cause last season so...yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    To me this would be like saying you could have started off the whole Slayer premise with a nebbish try-hard of a boy being the Slayer since they are equally prone to getting wiped out as helpless victims in a horror movie as the blond girl. Arguably more likely, since there is no Final Girl alternative trope for them to fall into. The distinction is not a meaningless one.

    All I'm saying is let's not go fishing for tropes that don't apply as the new core subversion/central thesis of this version of "Buffy" -- because for all we know the new "Buffy" won't give a damn about subverting tropes to begin with. I don't think they are looking for some deeper literary justification of the new Buffy being black other than as an end unto itself.
    I have no idea what you're even talking about here. A Slaywr as a boy?! What are on about?! Slayers are all female, but Slayers are of all sorts of ethnicities and nationalities and from everywhere in the world. And black Slayers have already existed as characters in the original BtVS (duh).

    Why would there need to be a "literary justification" or any kind of "justification" for Buffy being black, any more than there needed to be a justification for Buffy being white?
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    I have no idea what you're even talking about here. A Slaywr as a boy?! What are on about?! Slayers are all female, but Slayers are of all sorts of ethnicities and nationalities and from everywhere in the world. And black Slayers have already existed as characters in the original BtVS (duh).
    First principles -- the concept of the Slayer was designed from the ground up around subverting a specific trope that bothered Joss. My point was that losing the important distinctions within a trope such as "the black guy dies first" is as mistaken as losing the distinctions between the blonde girl who helplessly gets preyed upon by monsters. To wit, he could have modeled the Slayer after the Evil Ed character in "Fright Night" for instance and just said "close enough", couldn't he have? Or would that have missed his mark?

    Why would there need to be a "literary justification" or any kind of "justification" for Buffy being black, any more than there needed to be a justification for Buffy being white?
    You tell me, as you offered a justification; it was you that asserted this was an opportunity to undermine a new trope. And trope subversion of the helpless blonde exploitation victim was the original justification for the character's general existence in general as has been well drummed by Joss for time out of mind. I'm saying that I seriously doubt that there is anything so high-minded at work here as you suggested, just, "let's make her black this go."

    Indeed, I'd say that insofar as the original trope rugpull of the Buffy concept is central to the character, this change alone undermines it. Typically, black women are not routinely depicted in genre fiction as helpless naifs to be victimized, more often ending up as Sassy Black Women so the new Buffy really isn't an antidote to that cliche of the helpless woman victimized by monsters anymore either. But like I said upthread, we don't have any reason to assume that subverting tropes of any kind is what is going to get this new show out of bed in the morning.

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    As a person who's not a fan of the later seasons including (and especially) the comics, I'm fine with the idea. In fact, I think it might just be the best way to go. I think that Buffy worked best when the public was in the dark about the supernatural stuff. Besides there are so many 'verses' out there where the whole world knows about supernatural things, it'll kinda stand out more. Plus they can reset (er a 'do over') all mistakes/bad writing of the later years...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingofCretins View Post
    First principles -- the concept of the Slayer was designed from the ground up around subverting a specific trope that bothered Joss. My point was that losing the important distinctions within a trope such as "the black guy dies first" is as mistaken as losing the distinctions between the blonde girl who helplessly gets preyed upon by monsters. To wit, he could have modeled the Slayer after the Evil Ed character in "Fright Night" for instance and just said "close enough", couldn't he have? Or would that have missed his mark?
    Oh, come on. You know very well that Buffy's blondeness or Californianess or Americanness was not the main reason why that was subverting the trope. The main reason is that she was female.

    You tell me, as you offered a justification; it was you that asserted this was an opportunity to undermine a new trope. And trope subversion of the helpless blonde exploitation victim was the original justification for the character's general existence in general as has been well drummed by Joss for time out of mind. I'm saying that I seriously doubt that there is anything so high-minded at work here as you suggested, just, "let's make her black this go."
    No. I didn't offer a "justitification", because it was never needed. I mentioned reasons why this is interesting and the opportunities it offers.

    Indeed, I'd say that insofar as the original trope rugpull of the Buffy concept is central to the character, this change alone undermines it. Typically, black women are not routinely depicted in genre fiction as helpless naifs to be victimized, more often ending up as Sassy Black Women so the new Buffy really isn't an antidote to that cliche of the helpless woman victimized by monsters anymore either. But like I said upthread, we don't have any reason to assume that subverting tropes of any kind is what is going to get this new show out of bed in the morning.
    I've never seen a black female geek on Tumblr or any blogs complain about black female characters being portrayed as sassy. But I've seen them complain a lot about the fact that this "strong black woman who needs no man" is an excuse to feature those black women (especially darker skinned black women) only as supporting characters, and to never portray them as desirable or give them the role of romantic leads, while white women (or, in all-black shows/movies, lighter skinned women) are portrayed as beautiful, desirable and are typically the female lead.
    A lot of people complained about what Sleepy Hollow did, for instance, reducing the importance and screentime of its black female lead in favor of the (white) wife of the white male lead in season 2. No one ever had any problem with Abbey Mills from Sleepy Hollow being strong or 'sassy', no one had a problem with Michonne on The Walking Dead being strong and a great fighter. But when Michonne became Rick's canon love interest, that was seen as an absolute triumph.

    It's not the sassy nor the strong part in that trope that anyone has a problem with - it's the "always the supporting character" and "never portrayed as desirable and feminine" that people who criticize that trop seem to have a problem with.

    ETA: Another reason that I've seen stated a lot by African American feminists to why this trope is hated is that the idea of black women as so "strong" and not vulnerable is used to dismiss the abuse and victimization, especially of African American women - both in the past by white slaveowners, and in the present in African American communities.
    And this is very interesting in the context of Buffy, because Buffy is not a one-dimensional Strong Female Character (TM), she is also vulnerable, and undergoes so much abuse and horrible things that happen to her - and is genuinely traumatized by them, even if she eventually finds a way to endure. But the bad things that are done to her are often dismissed by some of the other characters and some of the fans, because she is expected to always be "strong" (this was sometimes the result of bad writing, as in The Pack or Go Fish, where the narrative and, in the latter, the Scoobies, ignore the fact that she did get sexually assaulted, even if she resolved the situation quickly before it got too dangerous, while other times it's intentional, as with the way the Scoobies and Joyce treat her in Dead Man's Party, or how they try to ignore her obvious depression and pain in season 6 because they don't know how to deal with it).
    Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 21-07-18 at 07:20 PM.
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    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




    * I predict this is going to be a massive flop and failure. Most want these 'nostalgia' series to be done with the original cast. Even if some of the BtVS cast may be 'too old', something animated can be done.


    * "Buffy" being black adds nothing interesting and makes her NOT Buffy. The whole point of Buffy is the 'blonde girl in the alley fights and kills the monsters'.

    Why even use the BtVS name?


    * Joss Whedon producing is simply money for him.



    The new Buffy version is being described as a “contemporary” and “richly diverse” take on the original series, building on the mythology of the original and using aspects of it to comment on aspects of the current political and cultural climates. Sources say that the reboot will cast a black actress in the titular role.

    Gail Berman, Joe Earley, Fran Kazui and Kaz Kazui (producers of the film), and Sandollar Television will produce the Buffy reboot alongside Whedon and Owusu-Breen. http://ew.com/tv/2018/07/21/buffy-th...slayer-reboot/
    Barf. BtVS changed the culture. It was AHEAD of its time, not "contemporary". It didn't comment on "current political and cultural climates". As-is, there's the notion that Buffy going to war in 2002/3... A school shooter...



    * The DVDs still exist. Many want Blu-Rays. BtVS is still excellent. Unless the reboot is somehow better than the original, what's the point of watching the reboot?


    * The Entertainment Weekly reunion thing was LAST YEAR. A reboot says to the cast that they are too old to play their characters. And they are not enough part of the Buffyverse for an animated something to be made.


    Owusu-Breen’s Hollywood resume is impeccable, having served as a producer on shows like ‘Lost’, ‘Alias’, ‘Charmed’, ‘Brothers and Sisters’, and most recently ‘Midnight, Texas’. https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/monica-owusu-breen/
    Joss Whedon wrote Toy Story . This woman's resume is not comparably impressive.


    https://deadline.com/2018/07/buffy-t...on-1202430592/

    http://ew.com/tv/2018/07/21/buffy-th...slayer-reboot/

    It seems around all the commenters are against the idea of this reboot.

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    Joss Whedon wrote Toy Story
    He didn't write all of it love. But yes this other women's resume concerns me. All her listed shows look distinctly 'lower drawer' stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by debbicles View Post
    Yikes, for me the very idea of new versions of the old beloved characters fills me with horror.
    There was nothing wrong with them in the first place.
    I just have no interest watching Buffy without the Scoobies. I wouldn't mind if this Buffy is another girl, not our Buffy, and is named after Buffy Summers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    He didn't write all of it love. But yes this other women's resume concerns me. All her listed shows look distinctly 'lower drawer' stuff.
    I hate to say it, but I felt the same thing. There's nothing that really stands out as important. But could the same have been said about Joss before Buffy the tv show? I guess people have to start somewhere. I just hope she understands the show and what Buffy means to the fans.

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    I would not call Lost lower drawer. Though she only has a supervising credit for 8 episodes in Season 3 and a co-writer credit on one episode, a stronger one. Coincidentally with the death of a black male character although the actor wanted off the show rather then it being what the showrunners had intended.

    http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Monica_Owusu-Breen

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    I am looking forward to seeing the new cast. I hope, if the setting is high school, the leads don't look 27 years old

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