Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ... 8910
Results 181 to 194 of 194

Thread: Passion of the Nerd - Buffy and Angel youtube videos

  1. #181
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,135
    Thanks
    6,144
    Thanked 5,790 Times in 2,792 Posts

    Default

    I don`t think, he says Buffy was punished every time she was mean to Angel in the past. He says, she gets a chance at redeeming herself after being mean to him in the past and she usually takes that chance.
    That might be what he's trying to say, but the scenes he picks to show this don't work. Buffy is mean by telling Angel she has a boyfriend now, and the next scene is her being dumped by Scott. To me that's 'punishment' rather than Buffy taking a chance to 'redeem herself'. What has Scott dumping her got to do with redemption? She had no choice in the matter at all, so it certainly isn't about choice.

    This is what I mean about his video being confusing. I understand his points, but he's using the wrong illustrations.

    When he say, Buffy is acting ooc, he is not saying, she isn`t allowed to be angry at Faith and consequently at Angel too. He confirms, that she has been raped in Who are You. He thinks, it is plausible she is angry. He is just saying, that Sanctuary is dealing badly with the anger she is entitled to.
    Is he saying that? If so, I completely disagree with him. The man she loves more than anything in the world is protecting her rapist, if all he gets is a punch in the face then imo he got off lucky I agree with you that Buffy's shock is about crossing a line, and that they can never go back, but I also think it's about Angel choosing Faith over her, which might make no logical sense, but emotionally I think that's how most people would feel in that situation.

    I think he should have I think he's got a bit lost with this episode, which he why he rambles on about Star Trek and Capt. Picard who I also love by the way, but if you need to use Star Trek to illustrate a point about Buffy, I think you've lost your way

    POTN is usually so poetic in his reviews, but here he says things like ' . . . that's like trying to drop a ball by squeezing it tighter' and 'you can't clean a board by running with it' (or some such) His usual poetic use of language seems to have left him for this one.

    Reviews are all very personal, I understand that. I love Buffy in this episode, I love that she punches Angel and he punches her back, that feels so real and honest to me, as does Buffy's shock at being punched. I don't find this episode a 'mixed bag', it's actually one of my very favourites of the season.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    Dipstick (29-10-18),SpuffyGlitz (29-10-18)

  3. #182
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,250
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked 1,645 Times in 802 Posts

    Default

    POTN is usually so poetic in his reviews, but here he says things like ' . . . that's like trying to drop a ball by squeezing it tighter' and 'you can't clean a board by running with it' (or some such) His usual poetic use of language seems to have left him for this one.
    I hate to say this but maybe the stress of leaving his job is starting to effect him? Also I notice he's 'drinking' in nearly all his videos now. You can hear it in his voice. I wish he would try and do something about that (If he isn't already of course) before It's too late.

  4. #183
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,377
    Thanks
    3,743
    Thanked 2,996 Times in 1,322 Posts

    Default

    I saw this video. I disagreed for a lot of same reasons as Priceless. This was the first time that I heard Buffy described as "mean" for telling Angel that she was dating Scott Hope. I don't really get what's mean about that. Angel broke up HARD with Buffy through everything he did as Angelus. Buffy was going out on a limb (to the point of disloyalty to her friends and the world) by hiding Angel to care for him. Angel was not entitled to Buffy's fidelity. I don't see what Buffy was supposed to do. Have these intimate caring moments with Angel at night while she dates Scott Hope secretly? Dump Scott the minute Angel came back from hell even though she can't even be sexually intimate with Angel?

    Yes, Buffy is a little harsh by saying Angel doesn't have a beating heart in The Prom. But that's after, Angel condescendingly insults Buffy for bringing up the prom, dumps her in the sewers right before prom, and calls their relationship a "freak show." Where's Angel's comeuppance for all of that crap? Why is it a matter of Buffy getting comeuppance for IMO mostly reacting to a ugly conversation which Angel started and initiated the bad tone?

    The creator of the video did something which I see a lot- pay lip-service to how Faith really did rape, torture, and hurt Buffy so Buffy had every right to be angry BUT THEN say that Buffy wasn't entitled to her anger. I don't think Buffy was perfect in this episode. She shouldn't have rubbed Angel's face in her relationship with Riley or hit Angel. I think these are the only two moments where I disagreed with her.

    However, IMO, the most crucial difference of opinion is what to do with Faith. Buffy is actually on the RIGHT SIDE when Buffy insists on jail and Angel insists on taking Faith into his home while he speechifies on atonement and Cordelia/Wesley just have to deal with sharing the same small space with Faith after she tortured Wesley for hours seemingly in perpetuity. Actually, both slayers knew better what should be done than Angel because Faith turns herself into jail too. Fans would call Buffy punitive for insisting on jail, but that ends up being what Faith chose and key to buying Faith's redemption.

    The author of the video expresses regret that we never got to see Angel make a whole televised project of sponsoring Faith. However, I believe that's to Angel's benefit. I mean, it would have been an interesting story of Angel taking Faith into AI and forcing Wesley to get over his PTSD to work closely and fight with Faith. But then, seven episode later, Angel embarks on his S2 story of abandoning his team and human connections to jerk off to Darla and then soon, Sponsor!Angel demonstrates to Apt Pupil Girl!Faith that questioning his decision to lock up a bunch of lawyers to be eaten by Drusilla and Darla is met with a firing and disbandment of the company. The creator of the video buys into Angel's stated mythos in Sanctuary- that he's the business of saving souls- while Buffy is the Judge who dispenses baddies. I'm not sure if this guy has seen the show but I think the whole of AtS lays waste to this idea that Angel saves corrupted souls. Angel did so well with Faith because she already wanted to change on the inside and he had limited time with her so he could just keep up being his best instead of backsliding around her. As always, Angel is not as cured as he thinks he is. He's in no position to sponsor anyone other than in short speechy spurts MAYBE.

    I also disagree with the author saying the Council goons weren't necessary. They're *crucial* to wrap up their appearance in Who Are You? and tell an unbelievably important story about Wesley picking Angel's judgement and Faith’s life over the Council's judgment and the chance to get his job/destiny/family/country/everything he was raised to value back. But also, it's crucial that Buffy saved Faith from the Council goons. To me, it solidifies that Buffy wanted universally human recognized redemption/justice with Faith- jail. Buffy talks a harsh game of "beating Faith down" but Buffy risked her own life to make sure that Faith wasn't extra-judicially executed by the corrupt Council.
    Last edited by Dipstick; 29-10-18 at 10:53 PM.

  5. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Dipstick For This Useful Post:

    bespangled (09-11-18),flow (29-10-18),Klaus Kartoffel (29-10-18),Priceless (30-10-18),Silver1 (29-10-18),Sosa lola (30-10-18),SpuffyGlitz (29-10-18),vampmogs (08-11-18)

  6. #184
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,250
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked 1,645 Times in 802 Posts

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Silver1 For This Useful Post:

    flow (29-10-18),Priceless (30-10-18)

  8. #185
    Scooby Gang flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    996
    Thanks
    1,796
    Thanked 2,277 Times in 946 Posts

    Default

    He is wearing a Spike t-shirt!

    flow
    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=34707&dateline=152518  8054
    Banner by Zenseem

    Will you just hold me ?

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (30-10-18)

  10. #186
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    3,135
    Thanks
    6,144
    Thanked 5,790 Times in 2,792 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    I wish him all the luck in the world. He's a good guy who loves a show that I love. I hope that it isn't too stressful for him, as he doesn't seem much of a business man.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    He is wearing a Spike t-shirt!

    flow
    That made me smile so much. I love anyone who loves Spike!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ok I've been on Patreon and supported him for $2. I have to say I raised an eye-brow at the starting rate being $2 because the other two podcasts/channels I support start at $1 a month.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    Silver1 (30-10-18),Sosa lola (Yesterday)

  12. #187
    Slayer Supporter vampmogs's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    12,221
    Thanks
    1,620
    Thanked 7,408 Times in 2,244 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dipstick View Post
    The creator of the video did something which I see a lot- pay lip-service to how Faith really did rape, torture, and hurt Buffy so Buffy had every right to be angry BUT THEN say that Buffy wasn't entitled to her anger.
    Word. I've finally got around to watching this and it immediately stood out to me as well before even reading your post. There's no "but." Buffy is entitled to be angry. End of story.

    I've... never disagreed more with a POTN video. I actually completely disagree that we needed an entire episode of Angel and Faith sitting around his apartment whilst Angel moralised her with speeches. To be honest, possibly my least favourite thing about Angel is how the series tends to be extremely preachy sometimes and I think my least favourite moment of this episode is Angel's "feel it" speech. It's both in part the writing and DB's delivery of that line but I've always thought it was cringeworthy AF. What I actually did like about this episode is the moment the writing undercuts Angel's speechifying when an uncomfortable Faith tells Angel that she was actually referring to using the microwave ("How does this work?") and both of them look embarrassed. It was the writer's way of acknowledging that the preachiness is a little OTT.

    I will never understand people's obsession with how Buffy is portrayed in Angel. There's this constant fascination with people speculating and/or worrying that non-Buffy watchers will think Buffy is a "bitch." Do I care? No. Do I honestly believe that Angel Season 1 even had a significant portion of viewers who hadn't watched Buffy? Definitely not. Regardless, I want the writers to write Buffy exactly as she should be whenever she crossed over. And in IWRY she was justifiably angry at Angel sneaking around behind her back and in Sanctuary she was super justifiably angry at Faith and, to an extent, at Angel, for his lack of regard for Faith's victims (including herself). I mean, I actually thought that Buffy was super loveable throughout the majority of IWRY anyway, but the point is that it would have been dishonest for the writers to script Buffy any differently just so she's more appeasing to Angel-only viewers and it'd be the exact thing that the writer's get criticised for in episodes like Chosen where fans complained that Angel was written OOC and accused the writing of completely disregarding what had happened to him on his own show (losing Connor etc).

    And I will always disagree that Buffy's reaction to hitting her is OOC. Everyone ignores the fact that Buffy explicitly states why it hurt her so much ("you did it for her"). Is it hypocritical that Buffy takes two swings at Angel but is then upset with him when he defends himself? Sure it is. But when people are upset and traumatised they act irrationally. And there's a rational explanation for why she's acting, well, so irrationally ("you did it for her"). And leaving aside for a moment what Faith did to Buffy in This Years Girl/Who Are You, it's not as if we don't have two episodes in Season 3 dealing with Buffy's insecurities over Angel/Faith that are coming to the forefront here when Angel actually is choosing Faith over Buffy in this episode.

    People want Buffy to be the perfect victim. They acknowledge that Faith did something extremely horrible and traumatic to her (they even go so far to call it "rape") but they want her to be placid and appeasing rather than enraged and flawed. And I agree with you wholeheartedly Dipstick that Buffy isn't on the morally "wrong" side as POTN claims. She wants Faith to go to jail for her crimes which is a perfectly reasonable belief that pretty much all of society shares. And as you point out, it's what Faith ends up wanting too. And POTN completely fails to acknowledge how Buffy shoves Faith out of harm's way without a moment's hesitation when the Council goons open fire. I definitely think Buffy was flawed in this episode and I agree that she had no right to hit Angel and that it was spiteful to throw Riley in Angel's face but she was written believably.

    For the most part I really enjoy Sanctuary. I think I may like Five By Five a tad more because it is more action-packed but, honestly, once Buffy arrives, this episode is incredibly interesting to me and overall I think it's an objectively stronger episode (Five By Five takes fooorreever to get going). I'm surprised that POTN didn't enjoy it more as I thought it would be right up his alley but there was almost nothing I agreed with him on about this episode. What I will point out is that I have unfortunately noticed a trend wherein the strongest episodes of Angel (IMO) all feature very little of Cordelia. Which is strange, as I definitely feel that the series overall was better with her in it, but she's just not pivotal to making an episode great. Episodes such as Sanctuary, Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been and Darla all feature very little Cordelia and she's absent entirely from episodes like Sleep Tight, Forgiving and Not Fade Away. Does anybody know if there was a behind the scenes reason for why Cordy was written out of this episode? There's a trend where Cordy seems to be written out of some of the most pivotal episodes of each season (she's absent from the Holtz/Wes/Connor plot entirely in Season 3) which in hindsight just never boded well for her character. One thing I will agree with POTN about is that in many ways Sanctuary redefined the mission statement of the show. For the writers to feel that Cordy had no place in this episode is sadly kind of telling.
    Last edited by vampmogs; 08-11-18 at 01:09 PM.
    "You've got ... a world of strength in your heart. I know you do. You just have to find it again. Believe in yourself."

  13. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to vampmogs For This Useful Post:

    bespangled (09-11-18),Dipstick (08-11-18),flow (08-11-18),Klaus Kartoffel (08-11-18),Priceless (08-11-18),Sosa lola (08-11-18),SpuffyGlitz (08-11-18)

  14. #188
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,109
    Thanks
    66
    Thanked 1,181 Times in 599 Posts

    Default

    I think it's the discrepancies in those instances (Sanctuary/Chosen) that are why it does set people on edge. In one instance, they write it safe for this-show-only viewers and the others they don't. Why make an exception in one but not the other? Or they do in both and Joss didn't care because it was character-specific show and characterizations don't really count. I have noticed over the years that those who watched Angel first then watched BTVS have a different views on the characters, so I don't think those worries are without merit. Even Minear and Espenson have said as much.

    They should have gone more into what Faith did, mentioned it at least. All we really get is Faith did something, but it comes off as downplayed. Yeah, they do the whole victim argument, but they don't get into it and it's really there to make it all about Faith. That's why I loathe redemption arcs in the Buffyverse, though, on Angel specifically.

    Cordy was absent from the Holtz arc because Charisma took a hiatus because of personal reasons. The other times, who knows. There was some gossip that she wasn't very reliable.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to HardlyThere For This Useful Post:

    Silver1 (08-11-18)

  16. #189
    Slayer
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    2,377
    Thanks
    3,743
    Thanked 2,996 Times in 1,322 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    Word. I've finally got around to watching this and it immediately stood out to me as well before even reading your post. There's no "but." Buffy is entitled to be angry. End of story.

    I've... never disagreed more with a POTN video. I actually completely disagree that we needed an entire episode of Angel and Faith sitting around his apartment whilst Angel moralised her with speeches. To be honest, possibly my least favourite thing about Angel is how the series tends to be extremely preachy sometimes and I think my least favourite moment of this episode is Angel's "feel it" speech. It's both in part the writing and DB's delivery of that line but I've always thought it was cringeworthy AF. What I actually did like about this episode is the moment the writing undercuts Angel's speechifying when an uncomfortable Faith tells Angel that she was actually referring to using the microwave ("How does this work?") and both of them look embarrassed. It was the writer's way of acknowledging that the preachiness is a little OTT.

    I will never understand people's obsession with how Buffy is portrayed in Angel. There's this constant fascination with people speculating and/or worrying that non-Buffy watchers will think Buffy is a "bitch." Do I care? No. Do I honestly believe that Angel Season 1 even had a significant portion of viewers who hadn't watched Buffy? Definitely not. Regardless, I want the writers to write Buffy exactly as she should be whenever she crossed over. And in IWRY she was justifiably angry at Angel sneaking around behind her back and in Sanctuary she was super justifiably angry at Faith and, to an extent, at Angel, for his lack of regard for Faith's victims (including herself). I mean, I actually thought that Buffy was super loveable throughout the majority of IWRY anyway, but the point is that it would have been dishonest for the writers to script Buffy any differently just so she's more appeasing to Angel-only viewers and it'd be the exact thing that the writer's get criticised for in episodes like Chosen where fans complained that Angel was written OOC and accused the writing of completely disregarding what had happened to him on his own show (losing Connor etc)
    Word to all of this. Especially word to how Sanctuary would have been FAR more boring if there were more scenes of Angel moralizing. Although, as a Buffy-partisan, I've always wondered what did Angel say to make Faith say to Buffy:

    Faith: Angel said there was no way you were going to give me a chance.

    Angel didn't say anything like that to Faith in the scenes that we saw- although he does minimize Buffy's pain by saying that this isn't about Buffy. However, I kind of think that Faith, at this rock bottom moment of honesty, is reporting something that Angel said with accuracy or at least, some intended honesty even if she misinterpreted it. Because if Angel DID tell Faith that Buffy would never give Faith a second chance, than I'm EVEN MOAR on Buffy's side. Angel would have no right to say that, and such a statement would be profoundly counter-productive. But we don't know. Anyway, that's the only Faith/Angel moralizing that I thought we were missing and I only wanted it to clear up an ambiguity.

    For the most part I really enjoy Sanctuary. I think I may like Five By Five a tad more because it is more action-packed but, honestly, once Buffy arrives, this episode is incredibly interesting to me and overall I think it's an objectively stronger episode (Five By Five takes fooorreever to get going). I'm surprised that POTN didn't enjoy it more as I thought it would be right up his alley but there was almost nothing I agreed with him on about this episode. What I will point out is that I have unfortunately noticed a trend wherein the strongest episodes of Angel (IMO) all feature very little of Cordelia. Which is strange, as I definitely feel that the series overall was better with her in it, but she's just not pivotal to making an episode great. Episodes such as Sanctuary, Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been and Darla all feature very little Cordelia and she's absent entirely from episodes like Sleep Tight, Forgiving and Not Fade Away. Does anybody know if there was a behind the scenes reason for why Cordy was written out of this episode? There's a trend where Cordy seems to be written out of some of the most pivotal episodes of each season (she's absent from the Holtz/Wes/Connor plot entirely in Season 3) which in hindsight just never boded well for her character. One thing I will agree with POTN about is that in many ways Sanctuary redefined the mission statement of the show. For the writers to feel that Cordy had no place in this episode is sadly kind of telling.
    It's nice that Cordelia peaced out in Sanctuary for this reason. I can't really imagine Cordelia taking *Buffy's* side against *Angel* if Cordelia was right there between them fighting. However without Buffy as the Outsider Ex-Girlfriend to rally against and protect Angel from (as Cordelia did in IWRY), Cordelia had the freedom to say that Angel's plan to sponsor Faith from their office is ridiculous.

    Angel: He'll come around.
    Cordelia: Wesley? Sure! People always get a little funny right after they've been sadistically tortured. Well, you'd know.

  17. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dipstick For This Useful Post:

    flow (09-11-18),Klaus Kartoffel (09-11-18),Priceless (09-11-18),SpuffyGlitz (09-11-18)

  18. #190
    Scooby Gang bespangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    505
    Thanks
    1,076
    Thanked 1,300 Times in 499 Posts

    Default

    I am walking a newbie through the Buffy path and I have introduced her to POTN. She loves it and watches it after every episode now. But we have reached season 4. She's finally really enjoying the show and we will run out of POTN soon.

    Is there any other review that comes close?
    Bottom line is, even if you see them coming, you're not ready for the big moments...The big moments are gonna come, you can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are.

  19. #191
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,250
    Thanks
    3,126
    Thanked 1,645 Times in 802 Posts

    Default

    Not that I've seen.

  20. #192
    Scooby Gang flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    996
    Thanks
    1,796
    Thanked 2,277 Times in 946 Posts

    Default

    I like Lani Diane Rich`s Still Pretty video reviews, but her earliest video is about season 6 episode "Gone". There isn`t anything for the rest of season 4 and for season 5. Imho season 5 is the best season, therefore you might be able to convince the newbie to just watch the show.

    flow
    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=34707&dateline=152518  8054
    Banner by Zenseem

    Will you just hold me ?

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to flow For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (13-11-18)

  22. #193
    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The basement
    Posts
    3,033
    Thanks
    1,610
    Thanked 2,420 Times in 977 Posts

    Default

    The newbie is watching the show through the reviews?
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

  23. #194
    Scooby Gang bespangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    505
    Thanks
    1,076
    Thanked 1,300 Times in 499 Posts

    Default

    She's watching the show - and then watching the POTN review. There were a few episodes I suggested she just watch POTN, because she was kinda on the fence. Now she watches the POTN after every episode.
    Bottom line is, even if you see them coming, you're not ready for the big moments...The big moments are gonna come, you can't help that. It's what you do afterwards that counts. That's when you find out who you are.

  24. The Following User Says Thank You to bespangled For This Useful Post:

    Sosa lola (Yesterday)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •