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Thread: Passion of the Nerd - Buffy and Angel youtube videos

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    Default Passion of the Nerd - Buffy and Angel youtube videos

    So, this guy is - imho - amazing. He publishes episodes Review Videos for BtsV as well as for AtS on his YouTube channel. We have talked about his reviews so far in the favorite podcast thread, but I think, he deserves his own thread.

    So far he has covered season 1-3 and about half of season 4 for BtsV.

    Season one:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...OHNJ8qi7NemRkT

    Season two:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...bpoMqOwMXA1MPQ

    Season three:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...MS4FM-PC-P8_L2

    Season four:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...w8yrzJ1sC9lXQ3

    He usually puts up a new episode for BtVS every month. The last one - This Years Girl - was published about a month ago and therefore I am eagerly waiting for Who Are You right now. As soon as it is up on YouTube, I am gonna post the link here and we can share our thoughts about it.

    I am not up to date with his AtS Reviews, maybe someone else wants to keep us updated on them.

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    If you're a member of youtube you can subscribe to his channel and you will get emailed updates. He seems to have gone a bit quite of late for some reason.

    If you subscribe you'll also get to know when he does his occasional live feeds where he either talks and takes questions whilst editing one of his videos or just does alive chat with a few other Buffy fans.

    Always entertaining.

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    *can't wait for New Moon Rising review*

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    Buffy seasons 4's Who are you is now up....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bx2YDPDMhAM

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    Really interesting stuff, as usual. I agree that Faith raped both Buffy and Riley when she had sex with Riley, and I do see how Buffy expecting Riley to have known it wasn't her is perhaps expecting too much, but I think it's a very human reaction. Even if Buffy hadn't said it out loud, most of us in her situation would have blamed Riley just a little, for not recognising this woman wasn't the woman he loved, no matter how unfair that might have been. I am also pretty sure that if it had been the other way around and Buffy hadn't recognised the 'fake-Riley', Riley wouldn't have been as understanding - look how he was when Buffy fell under Dracula's thrall.

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    I do have some issues with this review.

    He says:

    Rape is unlawful sexual activity carried out against a person who is incapable of valid consent because of intoxication, uncoinsciuosness or deception.



    I`d like to know, where this defintion is from. There have been and still are many different definitions of rape throughout the ages and in different cultures. There are even nowadays different definitions of rape in the US, because it is a criminal offence under the jurisdiction of each federal state.

    What surprises me a bit about his definition is, that it does not even mention the case, where a person is very much capable of a valid consent and just doesn`t give it. Or openly denies it. But maybe he just skipped that, because it`s not relevant in the Buffy/Riley/Faith situation.

    I admit, that have difficulties with "incapable of valid consent because of deception". There is certainley a lot of deception going on in the Buffy/Riley/Faith situation. But this situation is not only fictional, it is a fiction that takes place outside our reality. A body swap device does not exist and therefore there no one can have sex with a person while being in another persons body.

    The closest, you can come to this is the well-known example of the twin, who has sex with the wife of his brother, while she is assuming, it`s her husband, she is having sex with. This is probably not a common but instead a very exceptional crime.

    If I believe, my husband is faithful and I have sex with him while being under the assumption he is faithful and he knows, that I would not have sex with him, if I knew, he was unfaithful, but all the while he does have an affair with his secretary - is that rape ? is my consent valid, although I have been deceited?

    And if it isn`t valid....what if my husband tells me, he has put the garbage out and I have sex with him believing, he put the garbage out and later I find, he didn`t put the garbage out - is that rape?

    I am not sure, I am really happy with POTN`s definition here.

    I agree, that Riley did not consent to have sex with Faith (in Buffy`s body) and Buffy did not consent to have sex at all. Buffy was raped. No doubt about that. Riley - well, I think it is debatable, if he was raped. He did consent to sex. He just didn`t knew, he consented to sex with Faith. He thought, he was consenting to sex with Buffy. Does our definition of rape really cover that? As I said, it is something, that does not happen (yet), because we don`t have the technology (yet). We might have to change our laws, if we come that far.

    What I strongly object against though, is, that he accuses Buffy of accusing Riley of cheating on her. Buffy accuses Riley of not recognizing Faith. And yes, it is questionable, if Riley really had a chance to realize, he wasn`t having sex with Buffy. I actually would say, there was a small chance. After all, Tara noticed that there was something wrong with Buffy without having even met her before. Riley knew about demons, magic and all things supernatural. There had been another body swap just weeks ago with Giles and the Fyarl demon. And Faith was acting very .... unusual. For Buffy.

    There were signs. He did not read them. Okay. I wouldn`t hold that against him. But I do believe, that Buffy has every right, to be hurt and vulnerable about what happened. I believe that Buffy has every right, to need time to come to terms with what happened. And I believe, that Buffy has every right, to be distant towards Riley for more than just a few weeks.

    POTN basically says, that Buffy holds Riley accountable and she does not have a right to do so. I`d say, that Buffy is hurt and has every right to do so. Yes, it is Faith who is to blame here, not Riley. But that doesn`t mean, Buffy has to cuddle Riley. I can understand her reaction and I would feel just the same. Not because Riley is culpable, but because she has the right to feel hurt.

    I feel, that POTN is blaming Buffy here - not for the actual rape of course, but for her reaction towards Riley. I am not happy with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    POTN basically says, that Buffy holds Riley accountable and she does not have a right to do so. I`d say, that Buffy is hurt and has every right to do so.
    I agree with POTN. Buffy has the right to feel upset about the situation, but she shouldn't blame Riley for what happened because Riley was the victim.
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    If I'm being honest, I was pretty underwhelmed by his review of Who Are You. It wasn't bad mind you, but I don't think he said anything particularly insightful or original about the episode that hasn't been said many times before. I agree with him that Riley was raped but that's been discussed numerous times in fandom so I wasn't at all surprised that he'd interpret the episode that way.

    I think both Buffy and Riley are victims in this episode. I agree that the trauma and severity of what Riley went through is underplayed in Superstar but I disagree with POTN that Buffy was blaming Riley for "cheating" on her. I guess I would struggle to articulate it differently as well but I don't really think Buffy was hurt at him for "cheating" and I don't think that word accurately reflects her issues here. Deep down Buffy knows it's irrational to blame Riley for what happened but she needs some time to come to terms with what happened. I'm actually fully on board with that - it's just a pity that what Riley went through is brushed aside.
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    I think he might be feeling a lot of pressure and sometimes it translates into being underwhelming. I can definitely relate to that.
    As for the rest, I think Buffy is entitled to her perfectly understandable feelings, though rationally it isn't fair to put most of the blame on Riley. That said, I feel like it's more, like vampmogs said, than cheating : she's upset that Riley couldn't tell it wasn't her. I've forgotten whether it's something that's ever expressed in the following episodes ?
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    In Superstar;

    Buffy: "It's all Faith's fault. She's like poison. No worse,
    she's like acid that eats through everything. Maybe she's a bomb. The
    point is everything was going along great with Riley and then
    she comes along and messes everything up.

    Jonathan: "Buffy you know what I think: I don't think this
    about you being angry with Faith, I think you're angry with
    Riley. I mean you have this amazing connection with him and then at the one moment when it matters the most
    he looks into your eyes and he doesn't even see that it's not
    you looking back at him."

    Buffy: "There's no way he could know. I mean you don't just
    look at someone and say 'Hey that's not your body, get out of
    that body with your hands up!'"

    And Buffy does express disappointment at Giles in Who Are You that he couldn't tell it wasn't her like she could tell he was a demon in A New Man;

    Buffy: "Giles you turned into a demon and I knew it was you! Can you not just look into my eyes and be all intuitive?"

    I think I was just disappointed as this is one of my favourite episodes and I believe he said it was one of, if not his favourite, Season 4 episode, so I was hoping for some new insights I hadn't considered before. But I don't usually put him on much of a pedestal as at the end of the day he's just another fan and not even someone I agree with a lot of the time.
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    I think the difference between the Giles and Buffy/Faith situation was that they were really Giles' eyes on that demon. Buffy was in Faith's body and had Faith's eyes. But I do think it was odd that no one could tell Buffy's behavior was off in Who Are You.
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    Oh definitely. Giles was literally transformed into a demon whereas Faith was wearing Buffy's face so it's not really fair to compare them.

    I think the character's definitely noticed that Buffy's behaviour was strange. There's several moments where they all pause of react with confusion at some of her strange reactions and behaviour. But at the end of the day, even in the Buffyverse, I can't blame characters for not jumping to conclusions that Buffy/Faith have switched bodies or that anything supernatural was going on. People react strangely sometimes or don't always act as you'd expect. With nothing else to go on it's too much of a leap to suspect something more sinister is afoot.
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    I think throughout the Buffy/Riley relationship there has been an underlying issue of Riley not really wanting Buffy as she it, but wanting an idealised version who isn't super-strong Slayer-girl. Sleeping with Faith played into that issue, because Faith was presenting someone who looking like Buffy, but was not Buffy and was perhaps behaving more like the kind of girl Riley wanted. Of course we don't know how much Riley told Buffy about Faith's behaviour. I would suggest not much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    But at the end of the day, even in the Buffyverse, I can't blame characters for not jumping to conclusions that Buffy/Faith have switched bodies or that anything supernatural was going on. People react strangely sometimes or don't always act as you'd expect. With nothing else to go on it's too much of a leap to suspect something more sinister is afoot.
    I agree. Like in Bad Girls when Buffy was acting more Faith like, she was still Buffy but acting strangely.
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    Idea of Faith raping Buffy seems a little too bizzare to me. Buffy wasn't a participant of this sexual act. Of course we could argue that it was her body Faith used, but it was just body, not mind and soul.

    Also Faith stole Buffy's body and had no intentions to give it back. So if she succeeded would that mean that Buffy couldn't have sex at all till death, because it would be 'raping' of Faith? That doesn't sound reasonable to me at all.
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    It is always difficult to apply Terms or definitions, we use in a world without supernatural to a world with supernatural. There is no "term" in our world for a scenario where two people swap their bodies and then one of them has sex, because that simply doesn`t happen.

    But if you reduce this scene to the basics, than someone had sex with Buffy`s body on the one hand but without Buffy`s consent on the other hand.

    I wouldn`t say that this scenario is very different from a scenario where someone is unconcious - either because that person is being roofied, drugged or knocked out - and someone else is having sex with that person. The mind would not participate in the sexual act, because the mind is unconscious. But the scenario would clearly be a rape by almost every definition I have ever heard of.

    The question if Buffy would also rape Faith, if she had sex during the body swap is a bit tricky. But - Faith was the one who consented to the body swap. You might say, that included that she consented to everything that happened to her body during that body swap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alce View Post
    Idea of Faith raping Buffy seems a little too bizzare to me. Buffy wasn't a participant of this sexual act. Of course we could argue that it was her body Faith used, but it was just body, not mind and soul.

    Also Faith stole Buffy's body and had no intentions to give it back. So if she succeeded would that mean that Buffy couldn't have sex at all till death, because it would be 'raping' of Faith? That doesn't sound reasonable to me at all.
    I think using Buffy's body against her will, to commit an act she did not consent to, is rape. To argue that it's 'just a body' is similar to saying that if a girl is passed out, therefore her consciousness is not there, she is just a body and an assailant can do anything they want - her mind doesn't know what's going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I think using Buffy's body against her will, to commit an act she did not consent to, is rape. To argue that it's 'just a body' is similar to saying that if a girl is passed out, therefore her consciousness is not there, she is just a body and an assailant can do anything they want - her mind doesn't know what's going on.
    I disagree. "Just a body" was about body without mind and soul, not simply unconscious. In case of unconscious girl it still would be assault on her as complete entity. And assailant would have intention to assault her. In Faith case she had no intention to have sex with Buffy, she had sex with Riley. And my question still stands. Would Buffy be morally obliged to be celibate for the rest of her life? Or she would accept Faith's body as her own in some point of time?


    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post

    The question if Buffy would also rape Faith, if she had sex during the body swap is a bit tricky. But - Faith was the one who consented to the body swap. You might say, that included that she consented to everything that happened to her body during that body swap.

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    Not really. Even if we forget that it was as surprising to Faith as to Buffy, wouldn't it be hypocritical to use different standards for such thing as sex? If it's wrong to use one body for it, it should be equally wrong to use another.

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    I disagree. "Just a body" was about body without mind and soul, not simply unconscious. In case of unconscious girl it still would be assault on her as complete entity. And assailant would have intention to assault her. In Faith case she had no intention to have sex with Buffy, she had sex with Riley. And my question still stands. Would Buffy be morally obliged to be celibate for the rest of her life? Or she would accept Faith's body as her own in some point of time?
    I still disagree with 'just a body' idea, as the body is so much of who we are and how we identify ourselves, any misuse of it is still wrong. I also think Faith had every intention of assaulting Buffy , doesn't she say to Riley 'What nasty little things have you always wanted to do to this body . . .' (sorry, can't remember the exact phrasing) - showing Faith's intention to wanting to abuse that body. The body is not worthless, a thing to be ****ed with, it has power on its own, as shown by Faith's need to defile it.

    And yes, if Buffy wan't to keep her morality, she would have to be celibate for the rest of her life. The body her mind is in is not hers, she has a duty of care, no matter who that body belongs to. It would show the difference between Faith and Buffy, one would care for the others body, the other wishes it to be ill used. Although in reality, could Buffy keep that body from being hurt/used/misused, I'm not so sure

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I still disagree with 'just a body' idea, as the body is so much of who we are and how we identify ourselves, any misuse of it is still wrong. I also think Faith had every intention of assaulting Buffy , doesn't she say to Riley 'What nasty little things have you always wanted to do to this body . . .' (sorry, can't remember the exact phrasing) - showing Faith's intention to wanting to abuse that body. The body is not worthless, a thing to be ****ed with, it has power on its own, as shown by Faith's need to defile it.

    And yes, if Buffy wan't to keep her morality, she would have to be celibate for the rest of her life. The body her mind is in is not hers, she has a duty of care, no matter who that body belongs to. It would show the difference between Faith and Buffy, one would care for the others body, the other wishes it to be ill used. Although in reality, could Buffy keep that body from being hurt/used/misused, I'm not so sure
    Ok. I can see reasoning in that point of view.

    As for me I see it differently. For comparison I'll take Buffy resurrection in season 6. That moment when her dead rotten body was restored back to life. Should we consider her new body less authentic, less genuine and therefore resurrected Buffy being less of Buffy than Buffy before death? I myself think that's not the case. That why I still think that "just a body" is valid point of view in this case. In moment of sex Faith had full ownership of a body. It was her body at that moment. Same as former Faith's body was in full ownership of Buffy at the time of the switch. Her soul, her mind, her body.

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