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Thread: Positives And Negatives - Season 1

  1. #41
    Hellmouth Tourist Mylie's Avatar
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    I'm a little late but I still want to try this. Thanks to Priceless for making me aware of this thread!

    So I did half the season and will do the other half later.

    01. City Of...

    Positive

    Angel's last scene at Wolfram & Hart is kind of iconic. A perfect scene to end the pilot in a memorable way.

    Negative

    Some of it doesn't make much sense to me, like why does Angel believe Doyle so quickly?

    02. Lonely Heart

    Positive

    Angel being an introvert is respected and handled well.

    Negative

    The theme is handled in such a heavy way, it's laughable.

    03. In The Dark

    Positive

    Seeing other characters from Buffy crossover grounds the show a bit and the interactions are all very fun to watch.

    Negative

    While I agree with Angel's decision to get rid of the gem and understand his reasoning, I wish it was for another reason.

    04. I Fall To Pieces

    Positive

    I love the way the victim's feelings are what matters here and that she gets to take back some of her power.

    Negative

    A lot of it doesn't make sense. I don't see how detaching his body parts = being able to make his eyes float in the air?

    05. Room W/A View

    Positive

    The introduction of Phantom Denis!!

    Negative

    I hate this line "I'm not a sniveling whiny little Cry-Buffy" and find the acting in that scene very distracting.

    06. Sense and Sensitivity

    Positive

    This episode has a lot of funny moments. My favorite is probably Angel being self-conscious about vamping in front of Cordy and Doyle.

    Negative

    Kate's speech makes me cringe so much and it's not clear to me if we're supposed to take it seriously or not.

    07. The Bachelor Party

    Positive

    I like that the episode focuses on one of the main characters and not the victim of the week.

    Negative

    I don't really find Doyle's backstory as a teacher believable.

    08. I Will Remember You

    Positive

    Getting to see what Angel as a human and Buffy getting what she's always wanted. (I'm picking one element, I could pretty much list every single thing in this episode)

    Negative

    The story should have been a 2 parter, but at the same time it might have messed with the time element... Sorry, I got nothing, lol. Oh, Cordy's reaction to hearing some fighting in Angel's office? That was weird and I didn't care for it.

    09. Hero

    Positive

    Dealing with a story like this in 1 episode, without ever revisiting it feels like a weird choice to me.

    Negative

    The way the video at the beginning is used at the end, and given a whole lot of meaning to it.

    10. Parting Gifts

    Positive

    It's clear from his first episode that Wesley belongs in that universe and with Angel and Cordy.

    Negative

    The bit with Wesley trying to get his knife to untie Cordy feels interminable.

    11. Somnanbulist

    Positive

    I like Angel/Cordy a lot in this. She refuses to believe the worst of him but will do whatever it takes if he goes bad again.

    Negative

    Jeremy Renner doesn't work at all for me in this role. I have trouble taking the character seriously.
    Last edited by Mylie; 14-08-18 at 06:37 PM.

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  3. #42
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    Great to see someone else joining in.

    You've reminded me that not only am I horrifically behind on the start of the S2 thread for this, but I didn't finish S1 either!! I'll try to get to both before I go on my hols but I'm plate spinning erratically at the moment, ha.

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    12. Expecting

    Positive :

    Charisma's acting is so good in this episode.

    Negative :

    I hate that the guys didn't pay any consequence for what they did to Cordy and those girls.

    13. She

    Positive :

    Angel acting as a tour guide at the museum.

    Negative :

    Can I say the rest of the episode?

    14. I've Got You Under My Skin

    Positive :

    The bits alluding to Wesley's trauma with his father.

    Negative :

    The parents were so creepy and I don't like the twist with the father.

    15. The Prodigal

    Positive :

    Darla telling Angel that he didn't win and that he still cares about his father's approval.

    Negative :

    Kate's father. He feels a bit too awful. I feel like the writers should have given him some redeeming qualities if they wanted the audience to care about his death, other than him being Kate's father.

    16. The Ring

    Positive :

    It's hard to pick just one because I love so many things about this episode but I'll go with Lilah's introduction!!!

    Negative :

    If there's one flaw with this episode is that it takes a bit too long to get into the real story. I think less time should have been spent on getting there.

    17. Eternity

    Positive :

    It's always fun to see David Boreanaz have fun playing Angelus.

    Negative :

    Not much makes sense for me in this episode, especially the effect the drug has on Angel.

    18. Five By Five

    Positive :

    The very last scene is one of the most iconic on the show. It's so sad, but visually stunning.

    Negative :

    Lee Mercer is so annoying!! That's all I have...

    19. Sanctuary

    Positive :

    I absolutely adore the fact that Angel doesn't sugercoat what redemption is to Faith and that she makes the right decision in the end.

    Negative :

    I'm not a fan of the watcher's council being a part of this. I don't think they were needed. It could have been just the police being after Faith. But I guess the writers wanted the episode to have a bit more action.

    20. War Zone

    Positive :

    This is a very good introduction to Gunn's character. He already feels like he has his own personality.

    Negative :

    I'm not a fan of David Nabbit in general and I think his storyline didn't bring much to the episode.

    21. Blind Date

    Positive :

    The heist!!! It's such a fun and unexpected scene. I always laugh.

    Negative :

    I don't feel like Vanessa's character is developed enough. It's not something that prevents me from enjoying the episode but if I have to nitpick, I think it would have been more interesting to learn more about her.

    22. To Shanshu in L.A.

    Positive :

    I love so much about this episode but I'd say the most memorable part for me is Angel's reaction to the Shanshu prophecy. I love its simplicity. It really works with his character.

    Negative :

    Again, David Nabbit... what was that opening scene? It was so awkward, and not in a good way.

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  7. #44
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    Again, David Nabbit... what was that opening scene? It was so awkward, and not in a good way.
    I've never understood the point of bringing David Nabbit back. He appears a couple of times and brings nothing to the show or the story as far as I can see.

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  9. #45
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    I just watched this today so I'm going to keep going through S1 as I continue to watch them, it's just going to be a bit irregular timing wise...

    Five By Five

    Positive - This is a really strong episode, no doubt, top three of the season for me I think. There's so much in what we saw for Faith, Angel and Wes that I love, but I'm going to choose something a bit different. I started to warm to Lilah more in this episode. The contrast of her tough attitude in not holding back in walking over her colleague against her wariness around Faith really highlighted that she was smart and thoughtful about what she does.

    Actually I just had another thought that I've decided to add, regardless of having just chosen my positive and I don't want to lose that for this. I have to say that when I watched this today I thought that the flashbacks showing how Angel struggled when first souled, his attempt to bite the woman, actually works really interestingly after Eternity. Wes telling him in the previous episode that he walks a fine line after it was repeatedly stated in the episode that it wasn't a genuine soullessness, the drug was creating an illusion, really brought to the fore that there are darker aspects to Angel's character that he has to keep under control. Some of this is the demonic nature for sure, but some of it is the man, as Angel himself suggested to Buffy. This works well heading into S2 of course. So seeing that flashback here straight after Eternity, showing that in his initial struggle to deal with everything he takes the choice to try to kill again, although it is an aborted attack, scaffolds further the sense of Angel's inner struggles not being solely about the fear of soul/no soul, and this supports what Eternity raised. It's made me like Eternity more too.

    Negative - I thought Cordelia's recount of her distress from the confrontation with Faith was really poorly executed by CC.

    Also a question, why the flibberty heck would Darla have jumped to the conclusion that Angel was souled?
    Last edited by Stoney; 17-10-18 at 07:08 PM.

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    I've just rewatched a couple more.

    Sanctuary

    Positive - I really like the connection between Faith and Angel, it makes a lot of sense to me. Arguably Angel has more separation from the crimes he has committed than Faith because of the unsouled/souled distinction. But whilst this is on one level true, there is meaningful distinction, the personality continuity between both states relates. Angel's human issues/weaknesses play such a relevant part of what he still struggles with as a souled demon and of course also fed into the things that he did unsouled too. So the understanding he offers Faith works well alongside his story focussing on his own ongoing struggle with his inner darkness and why Faith would feel she could look at herself differently around him in contrast to the others who know her well and come to believe that she could still make a change.

    Negative - It is always for this episode going to be Buffy's appalled/shocked look because Angel hit her. It just doesn't work after she slammed her fist into his face and whilst I understand that it is tied to her feeling that he is already showing a lack of care/consideration for her that hurts, I object to her horrified hypocritical response.


    War Zone

    Positive - I appreciate the background to Gunn really emphasising that he has come from a tough background, it is needed to understand all the attitude and shoulder chips he carries.

    Negative - They don't look like 'kids' and hearing Cordelia call them that when most look to be the same age as her is ridiculous.

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    “City Of”

    Positive: I love Cordelia in this episode. Her realizing that Russell is a vampire due to common sense (no mirrors, lots of curtains), much of his shock, is not only the best moment of the episode but it works as a parallel to Buffy in “Welcome to the Hellmouth” realizing Willow’s date was a vampire due to common sense (his outdated clothing), much to Giles’s shock. While watching this episode, I noticed there are a lot of similarities between the Cordelia of the AtS pilot and the Buffy of the BtVS pilot.

    In “Welcome to the Hellmouth”, Buffy came to Sunnydale trying to forget her old Los Angeles life, where she lost everything she held dear – her good relationships with her parents and her social standing – and had her life drastically changed by the supernatural. And in “City Of”, Cordelia comes to Los Angeles trying to forget her old Sunnydale life, where she lost everything she held dear – her good relationships with her parents (in the sense of being financially supported by them) and her social standing – and had her life drastically changed by the supernatural.

    However, both Buffy and Cordy find themselves unable to fit in their new environment (Buffy’s out of place with the Sunnydale kids; Cordy’s out of place with the Hollywood wannabes) and their encounters with vampires (Luke and Darla; Russell Winters) cause them to realize they can’t run from their past. So, both former princesses befriend fellow outcasts (Willow and Xander; Angel and Doyle) and resolve themselves to fighting the good fight.

    Likewise, there are some similarities between the Angel in “City Of” and the Angel we saw in the flashback scenes of “Becoming, Part 1”. In “Becoming, Part 1”, we see Angel cut off from humanity and approached by a prophetic agent of the Powers That Be (Whistler), who introduces Angel to a shallow young girl (Buffy) who will be his new connection to humanity. In “City Of”, we see Angel cut off from humanity (though not in the rat-eating capacity anymore) and approached by another prophetic agent of the PTB (Doyle), who (re)introduces Angel to a shallow young girl (Cordelia) who will be his new connection to humanity.

    The reunion between Angel and Cordelia in this pilot is amazing. Hilarious (their scene at the party) and heartwarming (when they agree to team up professionally), which is remarkable considering they probably had about five minutes of screen time together in all of Buffy S1-S3. They have great chemistry and both of them are really at their best here.

    Despite being a Buffy parallel, I love how this episode establishes Cordy as a character in her own right and shows the ways in which she is NOT Buffy. Her lack of filter in this episode is a huge contrast to Buffy’s rather reserved attitude in “Welcome to the Hellmouth”. And while Buffy came to Sunnydale trying to be a normal girl, Cordy goes to L.A. trying to be a famous actress. Because she’s Cordelia and that’s her view of being normal. Like Buffy, Cordelia also realizes that she can’t resist the urge to fight the things that go bump in the night – but she sure as hell can make some cash from doing so!

    Negative: I agree with Stoney. Glenn Quinn is extremely charming, but Doyle’s introduction and recap of BtVS did feel a little clunky in the way it was written and delivered.

    “Lonely Heart”

    Positive: The character interactions between Angel/Kate and Doyle/Cordy were solid and there are great bits of humor in the scripting – Angel’s awkwardness at the bar and being mistaken for gay, everything out of Cordelia’s mouth, etc. I don’t think the chemistry between Angel, Cordelia, and Doyle is as immediately awesome as the chemistry between Buffy, Willow, and Xander was, but that kind of adds to the theme of the episode for me. Whereas best friendships are so instant in high school, it takes a little more time to 'click' with people in the adult world.

    Negative: I felt bad for the poor bartender. He’s going to be remembered as a rapist and murderer when he seemed like a fairly nice dude in earlier scenes before being possessed by the Screech demon.

    “In the Dark”

    Positive: Angel and Oz’s reunion. And the obvious – Spike’s monologue.

    Negative: It was way too early to do a crossover episode. As much as I love Spike and Oz, they detracted from Doyle and Cordy. The writers should have taken more time establish Angel the series before doing a crossover episode. Also… Cordy, Doyle, and Oz spent the night hanging out together and we didn’t get to see it?! Bah.

    “I Fall to Pieces”

    Positive: I liked seeing Angel identify with the villain. One of those things that distinguishes the series from BtVS and shows he’s not the typical male hero.

    Negative: While the premise is genuinely creepy, I don’t really see how it connects to any of the main characters. Even in the worst BtVS monster-of-the-weeks, it always seemed like a character received some kind of catharsis or emotional development from the villain they battled (Xander in “Teacher’s Pet”, Willow in “I, Robot…You, Jane”, Cordelia in “Some Assembly Required”, etc). While Melissa receives development and overcomes her fear of D'Hoffr--uh, Ronald, our main characters don't. Angel, Cordy, and Doyle are the same people at the end of the episode that they were at the beginning, which makes it feel kind of pointless.

    “Rm w/a Vu”

    Positive: The little character interactions. Angel’s obvious annoyance at Cordy’s incompetence; the self-awareness of Cordy’s ‘I’m sorry I missed your call, Aura; it was that incompetent girl at work’ showing she knows what a shitty secretary she is. I particularly enjoyed Doyle in this episode and he’s a great balance between Angel and Cordelia. As much as fun as they are to watch and as well as they play off each other, Angel and Cordy don’t seem like they would be easy people to actually be around. Between Angel’s depressed, antisocial demeanor and Cordy’s self-absorption and constantly-running mouth, Doyle provides a nice balance. He’s equal parts charming (like Cordy) and mysterious (like Angel).

    Cordy reclaiming her inner bitch is a classic moment and one of my favorites. I agreed with something that Dipstick said in another thread about Cordy’s force of personality being a superpower that she can sort of summon when need be. This is one of those moments that show Cordy’s bitchiness is really just a coping mechanism that, while not always a great one, allows her to be the self-possessed force of nature that she is.

    Cordy’s ‘sniveling, whiny little cry-Buffy’ comment is, I think, an admission on her part that Buffy puts up with a lot of shit (she’s seen Buffy complain about being the Slayer, she’s seen Buffy cry over Angel). But while most people would think of Buffy as a strong person for putting up with the stuff that life throws her way, it makes sense that Cordy, in her own Cordy-logic, would put Buffy down for it. She’s not going to be like Buffy and put up with some shit that she knows is unfair. She takes crap from no one!

    Negative: I agree with vampmogs on Charisma’s fake cry and this episode is the first instance of the lack of range she has that will become worse as the series goes on. In addition to humor and fierce bitch, I think CC excels at playing *subtle* vulnerability. Like, in “Lovers Walk” and “The Wish”, Cordy was supposed to be equal parts bitchy and hurt and she played that really well. Same in “City Of” when she goes from the low place of her ‘What do you want me to do?’ to Russell back to the hilariousness of ‘Hey, you’re a vampire!’. And here, CC does a good job going from the emotional depth of Cordy confessing to Angel that she feels like she’s being punished to the typical Cordy-ness of ‘I meant you used to have that mansion'.

    She’s great at playing Cordy as hurt but self-composed, which results in one of my favorite things about the character (her ability to keep herself together in spite of her emotions/bad things happening to her). But when it comes to the (thankfully, rare) moments when Cordy is supposed to be breaking down (like here, her crying in “Five by Five”) or overcome with emotion (her declaration that she’s in love with Angel), her acting is, yeah… bad.

    “Sense and Sensitivity”

    Positive: Loved Doyle’s line “[Cordy] thinks you’re insensitive. Consider the source.” Ha! It’s just like her infamous moment with Buffy in “When She Was Bad”. If the highly insensitive Cordelia is calling the hero out on being insensitive, the hero must *really* be acting out.

    Negative: Although I liked the stuff with Kate and her dad, I wasn’t a fan of the scenes with the police officers. And I agree with vampmogs that the episode isn't as funny as it thinks it is. Although, Boreanaz's delivery of 'PAIN-BOW' was cringeworthy in all the right ways.
    Last edited by Andrew S.; 07-11-18 at 01:48 AM.

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    City Of

    Positive:This is a great premiere. Instead of a moment, I'll pick Doyle's premise that Angel requires human connection in order to become a real hero that saves people instead of regarding them as food. Angel, as constructed in BtVS, only had eyes and attention for Buffy. By design, his only desired connection to humanity was his romantic ties with Buffy. However, the perfect happiness mythology limited Angel's ability to romance because his detachable soul. As we first find him in City Of, Angel isn't a natural candidate to lead an ensemble cast. After three years of character development, he really doesn't have these natural urges for friendship. However, BtVS did set up that Angel has an urge to be a hero. Doyle successfully makes Angel into someone who can lead an ensemble cast.

    It's also poignant given Doyle's status. Doyle was ex-communicated from his human life when he found out that he was half-demon. Then, he so rejected his demon side that he didn't help when his kind was massacred. As a result, Doyle goes out to find Angel, a full-on demon, and form a partnership of heroism. Based on his entire arc, I think Doyle needed a connection to "good" demonness so that he could overcome his self-loathing of his demon side. He needed that positive marriage between his demonic visions and Angel's demonic strength doing something positive to gain some peace and reconcile both sides of himself.

    Negative: I didn't need Angel's history, especially the Buffy-focus.

    Lonely Hearts

    Positive: A great thing about S1 is that it really captures big city living in a way that BtVS can't. I think this episode does that well. It really gets the vibe of being a single person, desperate for connection, but only feeling lonelier when "putting yourself out there" if you're just going to be "used" for your body and thrown away in terms of an actual relationship.

    Negative: After the pilot, the show should be in Team Building Mode but Doyle and Cordelia have little to do here. It's annoying after all of the talk about human connection and Angel making friends.

    In the Dark

    Positive: On first watch, I didn't care for Angel's explanation for destroying the Gem of Amarra. I agreed that he should destroy the Gem- but because he shouldn't be invincible when he has a detachable soul. Not because he won't see what happens after dark if he gets to be out during the day- because like, Buffy seems plenty of pertinent stuff in the dark even though she also walks in the sunlight. However on rewatch, I think it brings up a very poignant aspect to Angel's character that comes up throughout the series. He's in search of the big cosmic sign that he's forgiven for his prior bad acts. That's what he's mainly striving for on this series. Angel feels like he needs to be Batman Champire as he is. He cannot be a hero in a different way- be it an invincible vampire that can be in the sun during the day or a mortal without superpowers who dates Buffy in Sunnydale. He feels like he needs to earn his redemption as himself, with all its limitations and advantages. Moreover, he's expecting his redemption to be some physical universally recognized sign. At the end of the season, Angel will like the idea of Shanshuing and becoming human but IMO, entirely because Wesley interprets the prophecy to be a *reward* for excellent Champire-ing.

    Negative: I agree with Andrew S. There should have been more Oz. He schlepped all the way out there but barely appeared.

    I Fall to Pieces

    Positive: This ep had a B-plot running along its A-plot all about AI operating like a true detective agency which means charging clients. Again, Doyle is my MVP. As Andrew S said, he balances Angel's and Cordelia's sides in a number of ways. He straddles Angel's supernatural side and Cordelia's human side. IMO, that enables him to convince Angel to charge clients when Cordelia could not convince Angel. As part human, Doyle can identify with Cordelia's need for money to survive. As part demon, he can identify with Angel's need to not be the Eternal Savior for every Tom, Dick, and Harry because Doyle knows that his and Angel's demon-relating self-loathing can't abide that kind of feeling of being guilty about too much adoration for accomplishments. They need to draw those kinds of boundaries.

    Negative: The A-plot is gross and meh.

    Rm w/ a Vu

    Positive: Best Cordelia-centric episode in this series. Really good. I think it gets a TON of emotional scaffolding from BtVS, though. The most poignant aspect is Cordelia believing that she was suffering in poverty in LA because of the karma of how she treated people. For someone so mean-spirited in high school, Cordelia consistently articulated and/or indicated she understood how being mean people will be punished for their behavior. When she's punished by Marcie. Her "Spank your inner moppet speech" where she warned bitca Buffy that she won't even keep her loser friends if she keeps treating them badly.. She wonders aloud in Some Assembly Required why these horrible things keep happening to her, and Xander coughs back "Karma." When she lost her money, she pretty much assumed that Xander would run back and gossip to the Scoobies about "how Cordelia finally got hers" and how she's a "name-tag person" now. Xander doesn't do that instead buys Cordelia the prom dress and that really surprises Cordelia because she didn't think she deserved generosity because she knows how she treated the Scoobies. Here, AtS really benefits from how it's a spinoff. Cordelia's breakdown is three-seasons of TV in the making even though AtS is a brand-new show. She's not just being a martyr to assume that she's being punished for how she was in high school- she's advancing a long-held belief.

    Andrew S, very interesting way of reading the "sniveling, whiny, Cry-Buffy line."

    Negative: I think early S1 over-does these jokes about Cordelia being bad with filing or computers or even taking messages. They're not funny or particularly character-building. I actually have trouble believing them. The office seemed quite organized to my eyes and I understand that Cordelia was doing pretty much all of that work.

    Sense and Sensitivity

    Positive: S1 Cordelia is observant enough to say that Angel uses his "tortured creature of the night status" as an excuse to be rude to anyone trying to be his friend. I think that's SO, SO true.

    Negative: I don't find this ep particularly funny either.

    Bachelor Party

    Positive: I agree with past posters that Angel is a much more personable, present character here. I think it's because Doyle is a flattering mirror for Angel in many ways. Irish, dealing with a demon side but the presence of a soul and a human body, just getting over a serious romantic relationship which failed because of his demon side, disconnected from their demonic roots/Fanged Four family which leaves a certain hole in their soul. That really comes out in Bachelor Party.

    Negative: The brain-eating party wasn't funny or scary to me. I think it's because it was trying to be both.
    Last edited by Dipstick; 07-11-18 at 10:56 PM.

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    I finished up the season.

    Blind Date

    Positive - I really enjoy this episode so there are a lot of things I see as positive in it. I'm going to go with the emphasis that is given to the path that each person chooses to walk. Choices and redemption are such a heavy focus in the show and this episode is great for showing both focused determination, the sense of constant struggling and wavering uncertainty. That Lindsey surprises them in finding something he is asked to do so unpalatable that it makes him turn from everything he has been living by, but then his own insecurities and the chip on his shoulder pulls him back under after he's taken his stance on that one thing is such a great example of human weakness. The characters of Brewer and Holland and the cold brutality of their attitudes against the contrasting presentation of seemingly weak/gentle manners is excellent alongside this to expose how people present themselves may hide who they are within and that really falls within this sense of when choices often are knowingly, intentionally dark.

    Negative - I didn't think Cordelia finding details on Brewer so quickly was realistic (whereas their need to call Willow to fix the encrypted files was great).


    To Shanshu in LA

    Positive - Again a great episode and it really pulls the season full circle as we get to see Angel's emotional response to the people that he has drawn around him and his established purpose as a champion being threatened. I enjoy the inclusion of Kate's character and her struggle with accepting her new found knowledge of the demonic side to life against this and really like the moment when Angel, fired and focused on checking on Wes/Cordy basically tells Kate to stop blaming him for what's bad in her life. It's a point in his story when Angel is showing some determined forward progression when he so often is held static by his inner struggles and guilt looking back to his past. I enjoy his bluntness with Kate and that it shows I think that there is a part of him that wants to put all that aside and look beyond it too. It fits well within an episode where he has that glimpse forward to the potential of a future that he finds a positive notion tied into his destiny, the possible reward of choosing the path he has. Which follows neatly from the previous ep too. I very much agree with Dipstick that it is the element of reward tied in to the prophecy which satisfies him. It works against him having his mortality removed in IWRY too as it wasn't something that he had earned which got to wipe clean the past he is so often fixated on/in.

    Negative - The importance of the demon coming to perform the ritual is totally undermined and called into question when Lindsey is able to just grab the abandoned scroll and just finish off the incantation.

    --
    As a point of interest that only occurred to me on this rewatch, the contrast to how Angel responds to both Wes and Cordy being hospitalised in later seasons is interesting. Obviously he feels very specifically betrayed by Wes in S3 (which I am also currently rewatching) and the writing wish to drop Cordelia's character for S5 is in truth at play, but it also feels somewhat like the betrayal he felt over Connor in regards to Cordelia too put up a barrier to the open care he felt at this earlier stage when they were both so connected to who he was trying/wanted to be.

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    Starting this one as well, gonna catch up to the other thread.

    City of...

    Positive;
    I love the first scene where Angel pretends to be drunk and then immediately drops the act and fights like a badass. It's such a great introduction to a show that will be both hilarious and awesome.

    Negative; Angel having a reflection, also in the first scene. *tut-tut*

    Lonely Hearts

    Positive;
    The entire dynamic and banter between Cordelia and Doyle.

    Negative; Introduction to Kate. Even though it wasn't a bad introduction, I just never liked the character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Puppet View Post
    Negative; Angel having a reflection, also in the first scene. *tut-tut*
    Ha! I never notice things like that, where is it?

    Introduction to Kate. Even though it wasn't a bad introduction, I just never liked the character.
    Aw I always liked Kate and how they played her against Angel's story/development. I also liked that they included the police when they wanted to play the noir detective thang as Angel set up his LA mission. Was it anything in particular about her you disliked?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Ha! I never notice things like that, where is it?
    That shot that shows up in all the opening credits, where his coat fans out as he leaves the alley; he is reflected in the puddle of water on the ground

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Was it anything in particular about her you disliked?
    I just never felt she fit in with the show. Someone else once mentioned how she acted like she was on CSI instead of a fantasy show and I gotta agree. Plus, after she finds out about Angel being a vampire, her annoyance factor goes through the roof. Either she should have been written very differently or just not existed. I have no issue with the actress, though, Elizabeth Rohm did her best with what little she was given.

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    Ah, that's great. I'm going to be staring at every puddle that appears in both shows from now on. I'm really amused I never noticed it.

    It really worked for me with Kate. The connection to the police department and interaction on occasion was a good choice I think, having a bridge with the local law as Angel is trying to set himself up as the local supernatural detective. I think her awakening to the supernatural as he builds up his human group works as a compare/contrast too. Plus it gives some contrast to the turn-a-blind-eye/oblivious approach of the Sunnydale cops. We've just got different mileage on this one it seems.

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