Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46

Thread: Samantha Bee calling Ivanka Trump a C**t

  1. #1
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,648
    Thanks
    9,883
    Thanked 8,667 Times in 4,168 Posts

    Default Samantha Bee calling Ivanka Trump a C**t

    This story is all over twitter and I wondered if people had a view on it? Most of the people I follow are liberals who think this is hilarious and Ivanka deserved it.

    Is it a feminist statement? is it okay for one woman to call another a c**t, in the same way a black person can use the 'n' word?

    I have really mixed feelings about this, and I wondered what everyone else thinks?

  2. #2
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,771
    Thanks
    4,599
    Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,210 Posts

    Default

    Well considering who's it's aimed at I'd say yes.

  3. #3
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    8,297
    Thanks
    11,447
    Thanked 13,645 Times in 5,660 Posts

    Default

    It doesn't strike me personally as a feminist issue. I think it's a word that could be directed abusively at men too. It just makes me wonder what it is she did that provoked someone to make such a publicly risky and obviously potentially damaging verbal attack.

  4. #4
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,771
    Thanks
    4,599
    Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,210 Posts

    Default

    Being married to Trump would be top of my list.

  5. #5
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,648
    Thanks
    9,883
    Thanked 8,667 Times in 4,168 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    It doesn't strike me personally as a feminist issue. I think it's a word that could be directed abusively at men too. It just makes me wonder what it is she did that provoked someone to make such a publicly risky and obviously potentially damaging verbal attack.
    Ivanka tweeted a picture of herself and her child, with a love heart.

    Bee said, (on her tv show, not twitter) "You know, Ivanka, that's a beautiful photo of you and your child, but let me just say, one mother to another, do something about your dad's immigration practices you feckless c***,"

  6. #6
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,771
    Thanks
    4,599
    Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,210 Posts

    Default

    Well said imo.

  7. #7
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanks
    3,437
    Thanked 594 Times in 351 Posts

    Default

    * The problem is the same as the 2018 White House Correspondence dinner with the notion that somehow Sarah Huckabee Sanders shouldn't be criticized.

    Ivanka Trump is not only a public figure, she's a high-level member of the Trump Administration.

    It seems the goal of the criticism of Samantha Bee is to try to neuter her TV show Full Frontal with Samantha Bee and hopefully get it cancelled.


    With all the racist stuff coming out of Trump and Co., the Sam Bee story is a non-story.

  8. #8
    Slayer TimeTravellingBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,823
    Thanks
    5,675
    Thanked 4,825 Times in 2,277 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Being married to Trump would be top of my list.
    It would be pretty disturbing if she was also married to him, that was forbidden even in Egyptian pharaoh dynasties...
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  9. #9
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,873
    Thanks
    4,904
    Thanked 5,000 Times in 2,190 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    This story is all over twitter and I wondered if people had a view on it? Most of the people I follow are liberals who think this is hilarious and Ivanka deserved it.

    Is it a feminist statement? is it okay for one woman to call another a c**t, in the same way a black person can use the 'n' word?

    I have really mixed feelings about this, and I wondered what everyone else thinks?
    TBH. I'm never quite sure. I appreciate the sentiment but to carry any sort of weight as an insult surely it has to perpetuate the myth that female genitalia are the most abject thing imaginable? It's not the case - as is often argued with the 'n' word - that she's taking it back and imbuing it with positive connotations is it?

    Afterthought - I'd have gone with "feckless f***wit". It's not quite as cathartic but it has nice alliteration. I'm trademarking it.
    Last edited by TriBel; 01-06-18 at 05:02 PM.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    bespangled (02-06-18),Priceless (01-06-18)

  11. #10
    Scooby Gang GoSpuffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada
    Posts
    859
    Thanks
    2,267
    Thanked 2,131 Times in 997 Posts

    Default

    One of the things I don't like in current society is the inability to have a civil argument. I hate how crude Trump is. The answer is to respond with a well rounded argument not to sink to his level. I don't know who Samantha bee is so that leaves me a bit uninformed. I just think there are better words to get a point across.


    I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GoSpuffy For This Useful Post:

    bespangled (02-06-18),Priceless (01-06-18),Sosa lola (05-06-18),TimeTravellingBunny (01-06-18)

  13. #11
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,724
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 3,942 Times in 1,852 Posts

    Default

    Word is okay now, then. Won't hear any argument or protest to the contrary.

    I just find it frustrating people devolve to such viciousness over stuff they obviously have -- at best, and put politely -- a facile understanding of. In Bee's case, that is immigration law. All of this refers back to 2014 photographs of unaccompanied minors who were essentially in kennel-like spaces, that a report falsely attributed to current policy wherein adults crossing with ostensibly their own children are detained and separated. To Bee, because they are going to claim asylum, this means separating them is just cruelty for cruelty's sake, but that is frankly mindless.

    What actually is the situation is the people who have committed a crime are being detained for that crime. Just like when Mom or Dad rob a bank or skip their taxes and get arrested, they don't get to take their kids into detention with them. An asylum claim made after an illegal crossing is basically an affirmative defense to the crime -- judging the merits of that claim is part of the disposition of a criminal case. Just like any other crime you don't get to have young children with you in detention.

    It is also relevant that not only do people lie about the basis of an asylum claim, human traffickers/coyotes do lie about being family to their chattels in order to be allowed to pass; these may not always even BE the children of the people being arrested. So the sorting process is one of good faith effort to get straight answers to a number of questions, like "hey kid, is this actually your daddy?" or "hey man, do you actually have a legit asylum claim, or are you just coming here because your economy sucks? Or hey, aren't you the guy in this BOLO?".

    To Bee, though, scrutinizing those pretty fundamental human rights and national security/sovereignty issues is implicitly inhumane, so anyone affiliated with that policy by any degree isn't allowed to love their own children.

    Also, underrated in her rant was that she suggested Ivanka Trump seduce her father to effect the desired policy change. But Bee will see no professional consequences for her public indecency, because this is really all just Calvinball.

    Banner by LRae12

  14. #12
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,771
    Thanks
    4,599
    Thanked 2,550 Times in 1,210 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    One of the things I don't like in current society is the inability to have a civil argument. I hate how crude Trump is. The answer is to respond with a well rounded argument not to sink to his level. I don't know who Samantha bee is so that leaves me a bit uninformed. I just think there are better words to get a point across.
    I don't think 'civil' works with the Trumps. Not from where Europe is standing anyhow. The man is insane......

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Silver1 For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (01-06-18)

  16. #13
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,648
    Thanks
    9,883
    Thanked 8,667 Times in 4,168 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    TBH. I'm never quite sure. I appreciate the sentiment but to carry any sort of weight as an insult surely it has to perpetuate the myth that female genitalia are the most abject thing imaginable? It's not the case - as is often argued with the 'n' word - that she's taking it back and imbuing it with positive connotations is it?

    Afterthought - I'd have gone with "feckless f***wit". It's not quite as cathartic but it has nice alliteration. I'm trademarking it.
    That's exactly what I was thinking - using a negative word for female genitalia in a negative way - it doesn't help women does it! I like Samantha Bee, she's funny and wrote The Detour, which I love, but I don't think she thought this through, she just wanted to shock.

    As women, is it possible to reclaim the C word and turn it into a strong positive?

  17. #14
    Slayer TriBel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Manchester, UK.
    Posts
    1,873
    Thanks
    4,904
    Thanked 5,000 Times in 2,190 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    That's exactly what I was thinking - using a negative word for female genitalia in a negative way - it doesn't help women does it! I like Samantha Bee, she's funny and wrote The Detour, which I love, but I don't think she thought this through, she just wanted to shock.

    As women, is it possible to reclaim the C word and turn it into a strong positive?
    I was thinking about this earlier. I've got an Irish female friend - she can use it as a form of endearment (trust me - you have to be there!) but she'll also use it as an expletive by changing her tone and emphasizing the Cu. It's an art-form. Yes - I think it's possible to reclaim it - either by defusing it by using it as an endearment or using it within feminist rhetoric to speak from a position of strength - in the same way the 'n' word and 'queer' have been reclaimed. That said, the use of these terms is still contentious even in their respective fields. I think the "C" word is probably the last big taboo word. I'll be honest, it's one I rarely use and I swear like a trooper!

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to TriBel For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (01-06-18),Silver1 (01-06-18),Stoney (01-06-18)

  19. #15
    Library Researcher DeepBlueJoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Someplace... usually.
    Posts
    289
    Thanks
    795
    Thanked 640 Times in 268 Posts

    Angry

    I hate when we hurl our genitals at our fellow women. It's hateful to other women. It's hateful about our own bodies. It feels like we're urinating in the womanscape. I don't like it one bit.

    Even if I don't like or respect the person it's hurled at (and I don't). Just like bashing in fic, really. If you bash my least loved character I won't read your fic b/c you bash. It's juvenile and hostile. Also, it lacks any class or grace.

    This is (much) worse b/c real people are involved.

    I don't like the people doing the name calling, but by joining them in the pit of vileness, Ms Bee has automatically joined my 'don't waste your time' pile. There's a lot in the world and never enough time to even get through the stuff I want. It's a vast ocean. Thanks for helping me know where I don't even need to wade.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    I was thinking about this earlier. I've got an Irish female friend - she can use it as a form of endearment (trust me - you have to be there!) but she'll also use it as an expletive by changing her tone and emphasizing the Cu. It's an art-form. Yes - I think it's possible to reclaim it - either by defusing it by using it as an endearment or using it within feminist rhetoric to speak from a position of strength - in the same way the 'n' word and 'queer' have been reclaimed. That said, the use of these terms is still contentious even in their respective fields. I think the "C" word is probably the last big taboo word. I'll be honest, it's one I rarely use and I swear like a trooper!

    It still seriously bothers me that nearly all the (we need a happy list of our own, ladies!!!) women parts words are either made for children or are euphemisms for something bad. with the exception of P....., most men's names for their bits, are... just names... and even some are names... Johnson, Dick, Peter. for guys, C--- is something proud and occasionally funny, but not bad.


    P word means you're less than
    C word means you're wicked
    vjayjay - what are you 12?
    pudenda -- an old term used in medicine means 'parts of shame'. Seriously???!!!
    Then there are euphemisms for openings... slits, holes and such that just diminish us.

    I am not a collection of holes.
    I am not a P....
    I am not a C....


    Soo... My happy place, My love spot, Little miss happiness, Mini she, mini me, my juicy bits, the JOY button....

    feel free to come up with your own list. We need to reclaim our goodness and our absolute RIGHTNESS!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    That's exactly what I was thinking - using a negative word for female genitalia in a negative way - it doesn't help women does it! I like Samantha Bee, she's funny and wrote The Detour, which I love, but I don't think she thought this through, she just wanted to shock.

    As women, is it possible to reclaim the C word and turn it into a strong positive?
    Sure, but why? Men don't. Only Black folks and gay folks and women folks and other miniority groups need to 'reclaim' the insults hurled at us by the power classes. Why do we want them? I do not.

    I'm not qu__, ni___, c____ or bi____ (the last two both for being female, the gift that keeps diminishing us). No, no, no. Sure, if we want to do it in the privacy of our homes, that's our prerogative, b/c we're all free to be who we want, but I don't want to be a nice little q, n, b. sorry. I'm a bisexual, black female.


    Note: since I don't know the origin of queer, and it's got the least potential for horribleness b/c the word itself doesn't HAVE TO be insulting... I feel less bad about it, and it's been claimed by gay folk for a long time... before Q was a big thing in the LGBTQ system... and it can be a helpful catch all. Still makes me a bit squicky, but not like the N or the C word or the racial and gender insults.
    Last edited by DeepBlueJoy; 01-06-18 at 10:47 PM.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DeepBlueJoy For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (01-06-18),TriBel (02-06-18)

  21. #16
    Scooby Gang bespangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    803
    Thanks
    1,804
    Thanked 2,096 Times in 805 Posts

    Default

    While I have no problem with holding Ivanka accountable for the policies of the administration she works for, name calling is not high on my list for political speech. Still Samantha Bee is a comedian, and just like the shock jocks on the right she has greater latitude in the area of freedom of speech.

    Given the type of name calling and other mean spirited behavior and language Donald Trump engages in on a regular basis, I find it hard to object. I do hold him to a higher standard. He has set a tone in this country wherein incivility is actively encouraged and expressed by those who follow him.

    As for deciding that people who express sympathy and outrage over children being taken from their parents - regardless of age or physical condition - is a political stand, please keep in mind that once the govt institutes these policies we are all made more vulnerable. The right wing which claims to mistrust govt power is happily grabbing more power for the govt. Families that appeal for asylum are not breaking the law until a judge has decided on their individual cases.

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

  22. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to bespangled For This Useful Post:

    DeepBlueJoy (02-06-18),GoSpuffy (02-06-18),Priceless (02-06-18),Silver1 (02-06-18),TriBel (02-06-18)

  23. #17
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Big Honkin' Castle
    Posts
    13,724
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 3,942 Times in 1,852 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bespangled View Post
    As for deciding that people who express sympathy and outrage over children being taken from their parents - regardless of age or physical condition - is a political stand, please keep in mind that once the govt institutes these policies we are all made more vulnerable. The right wing which claims to mistrust govt power is happily grabbing more power for the govt. Families that appeal for asylum are not breaking the law until a judge has decided on their individual cases.
    This simply isn't an accurate statement of law. I've worked in an immigration law clinic although it's been a minute. Someone legally in the country on other grounds, like a tourist or work visa, who then applies for asylum has not broken a law; someone who enters the country illegally has, whether their hope is to apply for asylum or not. A grant of asylum could result in a disposition of the criminal matter of illegally entering, but in the then-and-there fact of it, the hopeful applicant has committed a crime.

    And where we are here is that there are two very significant legal matters to sort out that pretty much requires minors to be separated from the adults in these mass crossings --

    1) most urgently, whether or not the relationship between crossing adults and minors is authentic. Human traffickers, coyotes, will coach their charges to act as a family precisely to avoid detection. You don't actually *know* if this is parents and their children or coyotes and somebody's future domestic slaves.
    2) if it is authentically a family relationship, they still aren't owed the benefit of the doubt that they have a legally sufficient claim of asylum. If the reason they came is because their country has a crappy economy and they are impoverished... that's not. Asylum is to protect against ethnic or political persecution, the asylee is personally in danger if they were to return to their country. Political defectors in the Cold War. Cambodians fleeing the Khmer Rouge. Cubans fleeing the Castro regime's murder of political dissidents. Asylum is not economic migration by other means.

    Banner by LRae12

  24. #18
    Scooby Gang bespangled's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    803
    Thanks
    1,804
    Thanked 2,096 Times in 805 Posts

    Default

    I really do not want to get into politics beyond the original question.

    1) I live at the AZ border. I know more about coyotes than you do - up front and personal

    2)These people came to the border and asked for asylum, and were allowed entry. Until a judge decides their cases, it is impossible to know if economic reasons or fear of death caused them to seek asylum. It has not been the policy of the US to separate small children from their parents up until 5/2018. This is being done to discourage asylum seekers, not illegal immigrants since the vast majority of illegal immigrants do not present themselves at the border and ask for asylum.

    Talking about this just pisses me off, and this is where I come to relax so please just let it go.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bespangled For This Useful Post:

    DeepBlueJoy (02-06-18),Silver1 (02-06-18)

  26. #19
    Library Researcher DeepBlueJoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Someplace... usually.
    Posts
    289
    Thanks
    795
    Thanked 640 Times in 268 Posts

    Default

    Thing people are not getting is that people who are subject to having their children stolen, lost, raped or dead are NOT mostly illegal aliens. They hide as they come over the border and some get in, some don't. No.

    Asylum seekers do not usually enter the country illegally. The turn themselves IN to the authorities AT THE BORDER. This is actually protected behavior, recognized world wide. They call these people refugees and asylees, and at point of entry, they request protection directly. Just so you know that whether you want them here or not, being an asylee is not criminal in any country.

    We are the ONLY rich country who are treating asylees as criminals.

    Taking children from people who ask for protection in order to keep them from asking is evil.

    Particularly, when we have no safe place to put the children and we guarantee that what happens to all unprotected children will happen to some of these. They will suffer. Jails, institutions and possible death should NEVER BE the lot of innocent children. That many are already running from hell is just unnecessary roughness. Take traumatized HUMANS and separate them from family is inhuman and immoral. We don't separate baby animals we want to have survive because we know that separating an animal from its mother is not conducive to life. That they consider doing this is clear testimony to their utter. Moral. Bankruptcy.

    You do know who else separated families, right?

    And even the Nazis pretended those categories of people were enemies of the state. Is that next? Because even the enemy is owed humane treatment. Our moral authority in the world of nations is being destroyed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    To get back to the actual topic for a second. Ms Bee hurt her own cause. Which really sucks. She became an unnecessary distraction.
    Last edited by DeepBlueJoy; 02-06-18 at 10:19 PM.

  27. #20
    Slayer MikeB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles, Calif.
    Posts
    2,514
    Thanks
    3,437
    Thanked 594 Times in 351 Posts

    Default

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



    Currently, that episode of Full Frontal with Samantha Bee (June 30, 2018) is not on http://www.tbs.com/shows/full-frontal-with-samantha-bee and not on YouTube.com.

    It's pretty sad that somehow someone can be censored for criticizing a high-ranking member of the Trump Administration.

    So far, it seems The Trumpers have successfully neutered Full Frontal . The show is now being denied press credentials: https://www.denverpost.com/2018/06/0...summit-denver/


    I hope this stuff blows over. Ivanka Trump isn't sacrosanct.

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to MikeB For This Useful Post:

    bespangled (03-06-18)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •