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Thread: Buffy S11:Giles # 4 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

  1. #41
    Arbiter of Canon Vampire in Rug's Avatar
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    I think season 12 will end with a factory reset. Giles adult again, nobody dies, nobody shanshus, Frayverse confirmed to be the real future -only in a noncommittal way that can easily be undone, Fred’s resurrection glossed over (again) and maaaaaybe vampires going back to being sired into traditional vamps rather than New vampires.

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    Vampire in Rug I love reading your posts, you obviously know a lot about the comics, but I think were Roux is concerned, there might be more comics with her inclusion. She is a black female vampire who has 'lived' through slavery and is now part of the modern world. She is so on the nose politically that it would be silly not to use her again and DH will miss a trick if they don't, imo. I do think there is an audience out there for her character and adventures, with or without Giles or the scoobies. I also think if they are re-imagining the tv show, someone like Roux would make a great scoobie.

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    Billy the Vampire Slayer: 25,577
    Giles: <7,676

    Billy was culturally relevant, yadayadayada and was barely heard from again. The only way Roux is popping up again is in one of those Tales of the Vampires books. I find it interesting that Roux can hold her own book for an audience, but Buffy, the genesis of it all, needs Angel and/or Spike or there will be (supposedly) no interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Billy the Vampire Slayer: 25,577
    Giles: <7,676

    Billy was culturally relevant, yadayadayada and was barely heard from again. The only way Roux is popping up again is in one of those Tales of the Vampires books. I find it interesting that Roux can hold her own book for an audience, but Buffy, the genesis of it all, needs Angel and/or Spike or there will be (supposedly) no interest.
    I thought Roux was far more interesting and important than Billy could ever be. She was written to be diverse, whereas Billy was written to be accepted, it's a whole different vibe. Roux is both good and bad, dark and light, a little bit good, a little bit evil, she is a vampire after all. While Billy is just a sweet lad who fancies Devon and wants to be a slayer, all pretty dull and also poorly written imo. But I agree, it's a business decision and if the audience isn't there then it won't happen. But I can still hope can't I ?

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  9. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanSlayer View Post
    Kumiko Ishihara according to Wiki, she was both vamp and witch; also trained by Aluwyn, probably a thread before they decided to make Aluwyn less sinister. Buffy stabbed her in the back with the Scythe but she just disappeared; not dusted. Apparently Allie teased in a Q & A that they could possibly bring her back sometime.
    I've never thought Kumiko to be a vamp; I've just done a quick reread: Buffy stabs her in the back with a stake, but it is the only way to stop her because both are falling. Kumiko doesn't dust, she just keeps falling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    The covers for season 12 depict Giles being middle-aged again, -seems like they are doing a "factory reset" on Giles to make him how he was at the end of the show,
    I'm dying to know what's up about that. More than Whose Baby, because I've already decided that it's Dander's...

    That's if we ever see a Giles book again and Dark Horse decides it's worthwhile revisiting Roux. And that's if she's not dead. The last Giles issue ended with her being electrocuted, drowned, a grave being made and Giles mourning her. Let's be realistic about what it was supposed to be.
    But why are the Sheffields still bond to Roux? Baldwin bonded them to her, to her conscience; if she's dead, she has no more conscience. I suppose it's how that magic would work.

    Angel season 11 being the last AtS book to be published is appalling.
    Yes. I still don't understand why they ditched Angel & Faith; I suppose there aren't many fans of Faith who want to read about her - away from Buffy and an imaginary ship.

    Angel season 11 was just appalling. Still better than this Giles miniseries though.
    No, it wasn't. Giles mini has lots for you to think about, and interesting new characters (albeit the disappointing ending, with not much pay off); Angel S11 is just empty of meaning - I still can't accept a Mighty Merciless Old One chitchatting, or a regular looking flower to be considered so weird and menacing that it induces a time travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    Dylan's appearance in canon was clearly a simple attempt by DH to encourage more sales of the other book which was weak and wasn't canon.
    I don't think it was an attempt to encourage sales; I believe Gage wanted to tell something about Spike, and for that story it was needed a friend, an old friend of his, human, normal, so he used Dylan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
    I think season 12 will end with a factory reset. Giles adult again, nobody dies, nobody shanshus, Frayverse confirmed to be the real future -only in a noncommittal way that can easily be undone, Fred’s resurrection glossed over (again) and maaaaaybe vampires going back to being sired into traditional vamps rather than New vampires.
    I believe the season "finales" have already occurred in S11 - all things were sorted out, including the romantic lives of the characters. S12 will be about to link BtVS to Fray's future, and reveal why Future Dark Willow "is so sad". I agree that no major character will die, or any major thing like the shanshu will happen - except, of course, for the baby; if it's Dander's, I'm afraid it's a way to "thin the herd", make them less avaible to the fight. And I have no clue about Giles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Vampire in Rug I love reading your posts, you obviously know a lot about the comics, but I think were Roux is concerned, there might be more comics with her inclusion. She is a black female vampire who has 'lived' through slavery and is now part of the modern world. She is so on the nose politically that it would be silly not to use her again and DH will miss a trick if they don't, imo. I do think there is an audience out there for her character and adventures, with or without Giles or the scoobies. I also think if they are re-imagining the tv show, someone like Roux would make a great scoobie.
    Besides, Alexander said on a interview (which I couldn't find here, the search feature in this forum is just dreadful and useless) something like she hopes Joss uses Roux.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Billy the Vampire Slayer: 25,577
    Giles: <7,676
    Yes, it has decreased, but let's not forget that now people go digital...

    Billy was culturally relevant, yadayadayada and was barely heard from again. The only way Roux is popping up again is in one of those Tales of the Vampires books.
    It's what I imagine, too.
    Last edited by betta; 28-05-18 at 04:48 PM.
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    Yes. I still don't understand why they ditched Angel & Faith; I suppose there aren't many fans of Faith who want to read about her - away from Buffy and an imaginary ship.
    I think they may have ditched Faith because they didn't feel there was anywhere to go with her. She was now 'good' and Angel already fulfilled that redemptive role, they didn't need Faith to show that struggle. I would have liked Angel & Faith to continue, but I can't see what new stories they could tell, that couldn't be told elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by betta View Post
    I don't think it was an attempt to encourage sales; I believe Gage wanted to tell something about Spike, and for that story it was needed a friend, an old friend of his, human, normal, so he used Dylan.
    Yes, I got how they used the character, the point of having someone appear from Spike's past (I think they even stated that they wanted someone who wasn't at all related to Angel, Buffy or Dru), but Gage might as well have invented his own character as he didn't even stick to the exact details of JM's story about their history. There's no denying that there was a benefit to DH of doing this instead, so if people felt like they wanted to know about this person themselves they could buy the other book that DH had produced. A book that they had falsely claimed fitted in canon which surely was to increase the sales. I'm sorry but it was very substandard and I feel very cynical about how they tried to link it to canon both falsely in the original promotion and then by pulling in the character despite not even matching the facts of the story she came from precisely. But I don't have an issue with the idea of a character appearing like that. Where I get grumbly is when any weight or importance is put onto the source material for her when it was so poor and wasn't/isn't canon, the latter they have said about it themselves. It was just so damn expensive and falsely promoted and abusing the loyalty of the fans really grates with me.

    Last edited by Stoney; 28-05-18 at 07:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by betta View Post


    No, it wasn't. Giles mini has lots for you to think about, and interesting new characters (albeit the disappointing ending, with not much pay off); Angel S11 is just empty of meaning - I still can't accept a Mighty Merciless Old One chitchatting, or a regular looking flower to be considered so weird and menacing that it induces a time travel.
    I'd say the entirety of S11 Angel is to remind us of and demonstrate Illyria's time travel abilities. It's stupid but at least there's a point. The Giles mini ultimately does nothing. The only thing to think about is in trying to rationalize the asspulls with existing canon. Pretty much all it does is prevent a break in month to month Buffy books.

    And it wasn't funny, Joss.

    Yes, it has decreased, but let's not forget that now people go digital...
    There's been nothing to suggest digital takes from physical copies. The opposite, actually. Physical sales go up while digital stagnate or decrease. The proof is ultimately in the pudding. If they were still selling, this wouldn't be the last season, the titles wouldn't be reduced to 4 issues and they wouldn't have shortened Angel S10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    How much do you know about African-American writing? About African-American culture and its Arts Movements? If you know anything about it, you need to read Giles. Honestly, I'm stunned by it. The level of detail - the complexity - goes far beyond anything I saw in the TV series - and far beyond anything I'm prepared to articulate here. I haven't figured everything out (I don't think you're meant to) but I think it's awesome.
    I just picked up my Giles comics yesterday. Assuming i survive jury duty, i know what i will read next!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepBlueJoy View Post
    I just picked up my Giles comics yesterday. Assuming i survive jury duty, i know what i will read next!
    Ha...Good luck! It's driving me round the bend. It occurred to me the 'verse's definition of magic is very euro-centric. For instance - would Dracula be one of Roux's forefathers? I wonder to what extent we have to take African and African American ideas/myths into account?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    Ha...Good luck! It's driving me round the bend. It occurred to me the 'verse's definition of magic is very euro-centric. For instance - would Dracula be one of Roux's forefathers? I wonder to what extent we have to take African and African American ideas/myths into account?
    As someone from an afro carribbean background. I am deeply aware of how important those cultural and religous touchstones remain throughout the African diaspora. Genetically we know Africa is the root of life on the planet, so magics should reflect this. The series was overly eurocentric, but the slayer origin was handled adequately even tho' some disliked the 1st slayer look and the shadow men were not hugs or kitties - but IMO, saving the world cannot be made nonpainful

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    Thought this was interesting.Erika Alexander who co-wrote the Giles miniseries with Joss is joining the cast of Black Lightning for season 2.

    https://www.newsarama.com/42179-blac...er-report.html

    I really loved the first season of the show.
    Last edited by BAF; 05-10-18 at 04:46 PM.

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