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Thread: Positives and Negatives - S7

  1. #141
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    Empty Places

    Positive - There are a few one-on-one scenes in this episode that are just great and I really enjoy. Buffy/Clem, Spike/Andrew and Willow/Xander especially. The hospital scene between Willow/Xander is a beautiful display of friendship and I think Buffy's retreat there plays its part in what happens later.

    Negative - I find the innate abilities of the potentials a little hazy as they seem to be presented as naturally more able/capable but with the little training they have had so far taking on trained officers seems dubious to me.

    --
    The extent to which the group meeting swings against Buffy does seem extreme. It isn't that they are expressing doubt and an unwillingness to easily fall in line with Buffy's wish to return to the vineyard. With the pressure of the situation their questioning doesn't seem out of left field at all. It works fine with the themes of power and how we affect others in questioning leadership decisions and it also works somewhat alongside the focus turning away from the friendships and shifting priorities. Current tension is high and some uncertainty from the group just isn't unbelievable, particularly after the last mission they took to the vineyard ended so badly and with the meeting coinciding with Xander's return. Plus, on top of this, there is complex history behind some of these dynamics, specific fears that have been laid such as The First gave Dawn, and even weighty developments in the recent relationships too (some lingering resentment from Robin for example makes sense). So I've absolutely no issues with the idea of general disquiet. But it swinging to pushing Buffy out of her home completely is hard to take without accepting the hellmouth is affecting them as it has been with others in town.

    I haven't rewatched the episode since I first read this suggestion, but the whole attack from the cops in the same episode seems to back it I think. Caleb throwing Buffy around specifically emphasising power over her works with it as well and with us hearing him specifically plotting to try and manipulate and apply pressure. This is how the bad guys are operating after all. With the whole emphasis on the town falling during the episode, starting from Clem's exit and his expressed doubt over Buffy's ability to stop what is happening this time, I think there's definitely weight to the theory to explain how far the situation went.

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    Agree with Stoney that I think Buffy being pushed out of her own house in Empty Places can only happen because the Hellmouth is 'making everyone crazy'. I think Anya et al probably do feel a low-grade resentment against Buffy, which has been heightened by the Hellmouth. Dawn especially has been dwelling on her mother telling her 'Buffy won't choose you' and it comes to a head here, and she decides to get in first and disavow Buffy before Buffy can do similar to her. People are being honest, but it's a heightened, almost hysterical honesty that's being fed by The First, who is that whispering voice in your head that distorts the truth.

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  5. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Agree with Stoney that I think Buffy being pushed out of her own house in Empty Places can only happen because the Hellmouth is 'making everyone crazy'. I think Anya et al probably do feel a low-grade resentment against Buffy, which has been heightened by the Hellmouth. Dawn especially has been dwelling on her mother telling her 'Buffy won't choose you' and it comes to a head here, and she decides to get in first and disavow Buffy before Buffy can do similar to her. People are being honest, but it's a heightened, almost hysterical honesty that's being fed by The First, who is that whispering voice in your head that distorts the truth.
    I wish it was acknowledged in the show, because this does make me feel a little better about the scene. It does seem so over the top to have all these characters against Buffy and throwing shots at her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    I wish it was acknowledged in the show, because this does make me feel a little better about the scene. It does seem so over the top to have all these characters against Buffy and throwing shots at her.
    I think the cops are meant to show us that the Hellmouth is amplifying people's personalities and behaviours, but I agree, it doesn't translate too well and people take what happens to Buffy in isolation to the rest of the episode. I would also say that Buffy and Faith fighting outside The Bronze, where Buffy thumps Faith, is influenced by the Hellmouth and The First, which amplifies Buffy and Faith's antagonistic feelings towards each other.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Day 20 - Touched

    Positive:All the Spuffy goodness is wonderful and I love it; Spike is so loving, supportive and encouraging and Buffy asking him to stay with her just warms my Spuffy heart. But beyond all that, Spike calling the scoobies 'sad ungrateful traitors' and punching Faith in the face also makes me happy.


    Negative: Giles's killing the bringer never made sense to me, I always thought there was more information to be gained.

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    Touched

    Positive: Willow got laid! Yay! I mean, everybody got laid, except Buffy but that's beside the point. Anyway, I really like that bedroom scene, not the PG-13 stuff, the before, talking, foreplay etc - it's cute, Willow's adorable, Kennedy's really sweet and why do people hate her, again? There's literally nothing wrong with Kennedy, OK?

    Negative: Spike's you're the one speech sucks. This is supposed to be such a pivotal moment in their relationship and in Buffy's arc as well and the best Spike can do is, what, quote Riley's lines from As You Were? And Buffy doesn't mind? It's lame.

  10. #146
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    Touched

    Positive - I love the empowerment message through this. As splintered as the group is in regards to Buffy and with the argument with Spike on his return, there are still multiple examples of people's concern and support for each other. It gives depth to what is happening and how it is affecting them all rather than taking a clear side within the group I think, despite the current division.

    Spike's tracking of Buffy and how he looks to boost her confidence in herself is a great repeat of what she has done for him in believing in him this season. Whilst the speech is a little schmaltzy and deliberate, I think this is because Spike is trying to be what he thinks Buffy needs here and I don't have a problem with that. This works with a line within it happening to be one that someone else had used another time I suppose, but it isn't a repeat of Riley's speech. Spike wasn't a witness to that and this is about knowing a depth to Buffy's character whilst showing her understanding, acceptance and belief in her. So although in some ways it doesn't feel very 'him', it still comes over as very genuine and based on the history they have together. I really like how the message emphasises how well he knows her and that he's wanting to be there for her, and not with a selfish agenda. It really is an important moment in their relationship as they lay together, strengthening each other without anything sexual in it. It shows how far they've come from where they were.

    Negative - Whilst I can reason out the schmaltzy aspect of the speech, what is an unquestionable negative for me is that there's a rare time in it that JM's delivery doesn't hit the mark for me at all. It's when he gives her that uber dopey, lovey look at one point during it, it just really irritates me.

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    Touched

    Positive: I liked the scene with Buffy and Spike snuggled on the bed.

    Negative: Where to start? The fact that none of the Scoobies bothered to go and search for Buffy, the fact that none of them felt guilt or even bad about what happened, the fact that they don't talk about it at all. We only get a tiny scene with Dawn expressing concern, and that's it.

    How heartbreaking that after seven years of love and friendship and sacrifice and loyalty, the Scoobies are dubbed "sad, sad, ungrateful traitors" two episodes before the finale. Thank you, show.
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    Empty Places:

    Positives: The scene between Willow & Xander is really nice and I don't mind Buffy's actions here. I think it's obvious she's distancing herself because she's having trouble coping with her guilt. I also love SMG's acting when she tells Caleb she'll "end him" if he goes near Xander again.

    Negatives: Where to begin? I mean, not that any of this justifies what the Scoobies do, but Buffy telling Giles that Spike is "the only one watching her back" is probably the most offensive thing she says in the entire series. Seriously Buffy? Did you not walk in on Xander giving a speech about how amazing you are and how everybody should trust you and have faith in your just one episode earlier? And did Xander not just pay the price for having your back with his eye? And what has Willow done to make you doubt her trust in you? In Get It Done she stood up for you against Kennedy in front of everyone and then came into your bedroom at the end of the episode and comforted you and said she were right to be hard on everybody. Buffy & Spike is supposed to be healthier in Season 7 but this is some straight up unhealthy bulls**t.

    But none of this excuses the terribly written and, yes, blatantly OOC actions of everyone at the end of the episode. It's very telling people have to try and fanwank it as the Hellmouth causing the characters to act this way despite the fact that it's never stated that this is what's happening, nor is it ever mentioned again, and it's inexplicable why it wouldn't continue to effect everyone in the remaining episodes either. The Scoobies have had some huge fallouts in the past but I do not believe that Willow and Xander would kick Buffy out of her own home and leave her to wander the streets of Sunnydale alone. And, speaking of Willow and Xander, it's absolutely criminal that the two of them barely have a line throughout the entire scene and that characters like Kennedy or Wood have more of a presence than they do. And Giles is written as being practically straight up villainous at this point. I don't care if he's meant to represent the "patriarchy" or is meant to have trouble with his diminished role in Buffy's life. That's been true since at least Season 4 and they still managed to make him a multifaceted character who was still likeable and had a lot of positive character traits as well.

    Touched:

    Positives: It's nice seeing The Mayor again. It's a pity they didn't use The First like this more often instead of having it almost always in the guise of Buffy. It was so underutilised. I also love Faith smacking Kennedy down (as Buffy should have a long time ago) and SMG's delivery of "What if I don't want to be the one?" is just heartbreaking. It's like it's Buffy's one final, sad, protest/reminder that she never asked for this, for old time's sake.

    Negatives: I agree with Sosa Lola that it's really poor that we don't have a single scene of Willow and Xander talking about what happened with Buffy or wondering where she is etc. I will never understand the writer's decision to ruin a friendship you've been building for seven years so inexplicably and so soon before the finale. And it's ridiculous how they expect us to forget all about it by the next episode without it being addressed or discussed between the characters at all.

    And Spike's speech is nice but it's pretty redundant. I've always thought it was a weird choice to have him echo what Riley said in As You Were ("You're one hell of a woman") instead of giving him his own original line to say.
    "You've got ... a world of strength in your heart. I know you do. You just have to find it again. Believe in yourself."

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    Day 21 - End of Days

    Positive:Some lovely scoobie moments and I like all the duo's but the Spuffy moment is my favourites of the season

    SPIKE
    Honey, you're home.

    BUFFY
    Yeah.

    SPIKE
    (sighs) And you did it. Fulfilled your mission. Found the Holy Grail. Or the Holy Hand Grenade, or whatever the hell that is.

    BUFFY
    Right now we're going with scythe. You like?

    SPIKE
    Well, pointy and wooden is not exactly the look I wanna know better, but it does have flair. Can see why a girl would ditch a fella for one of these.

    BUFFY
    I'm sorry about that. (walks away)

    SPIKE
    It doesn't matter. You're back in the bosom. All's forgiven. And, uh, (stands in front of Buffy, looking at her) last night...was just a glitch. A bit of cold comfort from the cellar dweller. Let's don't make a thing out of it. (breathes nervously)

    BUFFY
    Great. I have work to do.

    SPIKE
    Oh, yeah. Another solo mission, of course.

    BUFFY
    Yeah, it is.

    SPIKE
    That's fine. You don't have to get shirty about it.

    BUFFY
    I'm not shirty. And what is shirty? That's not even a word.

    SPIKE
    All right. All right. Big secret mission. It's fine.

    BUFFY
    It's not a secret. Well, I mean, it is, but that's the point of the mission. Find out the secret. This thing was forged by— I don't even know. I mean, something about... a tomb on unconsecrated ground. That's what I have to do. I need to find out what this is and why I have it.

    SPIKE
    And that's the thing the preacher man was so anxious to keep out of your mitts?

    BUFFY
    That it is.

    SPIKE
    Well, maybe I'll swing by the vineyard when you go, make sure he's sitting tight.

    BUFFY
    Great.

    SPIKE
    OK. (turns to leave)

    BUFFY
    (walks after him) You're a dope.

    SPIKE
    I'm a what?

    BUFFY
    You're a dope. And a bonehead. And you're shirty.

    SPIKE
    Have you gone completely carrot-top?

    BUFFY
    Do you see this? (holds up the scythe) This may actually help me fight my war. This might be the key to everything. And the reason I'm holding it is because of you. Because of the strength that you gave me last night. Look, I am tired of defensiveness and weird, mixed signals. You know, I have Faith for that. Let's just get to the truth here, OK? I don't know how you felt about last night, but I will not—

    SPIKE
    (breathes in, looks away) Terrified.

    BUFFY
    Of what?

    SPIKE
    (lets out a slow sigh) Last night was... (looks up) God, I'm such a jerk. I can't do this.

    BUFFY
    Spike...

    SPIKE
    It was the best night of my life. If you poke fun at me, you bloody well better use that, 'cause I couldn't bear it. It may not mean that much to you, but—

    BUFFY
    I just told you it did.

    SPIKE
    (sighs) Yeah...I hear you say it, but... I've lived for soddin' ever, Buffy. I've done everything. Done things with you I can't spell, but... I've never... been close... to anyone. Least of all, you. 'Til last night. All I did was... (smiles) hold you, watch you sleep. And it was the best night of my life. So, yeah... I'm... terrified.

    BUFFY
    You don't have to be.

    SPIKE
    (looks at her) Were you there with me?

    BUFFY
    (looks straight at him) I was.

    SPIKE
    What does that mean?

    BUFFY
    I don't know. Does it have to mean something?

    SPIKE
    No. (looks away) Not right now.

    BUFFY
    Maybe when...

    SPIKE
    No. Let's just leave it.

    BUFFY
    OK.

    SPIKE
    (sighs) We'll go be heroes. (walks out the door)

    I wanted to post it all because it's just so good. They're a couple, they're low key, there's no melodrama, they accept each other and what they have in this moment. Once the war is won maybe they'll return to this point and discuss, but for right now this is what it is and it's not perfect, but it's good enough. I love that.

    If Spike's speech in Touched reminds people of Riley, well this reminds me of Riley saying 'loving you is the hardest thing I've ever done' . . . and he comes to believe Buffy doesn't love him and he walks away. I think this scene shows that to Spike it really doesn't matter if Buffy loves him or not, he will always love her. While Riley was the normal to Angel's vampire, Spike contains both Angel and Riley within him, he is a vampire who wants to give Buffy the normal she craves and still be able to offer the darkness she needs too.


    Negative: Trust Angel and his terrible timing

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    End of Days

    Positive: Everything that's not directly partaking to the plot. The middle of the episode is full of great, quiet, very personal scenes where characters just talk to each other. Intimate moments, believable characterization, awesome dialog - it's pure gold! It's what this season should've been in the first place!

    Negative: With mere twenty minutes to move the plot forward this episode is surprisingly garbage-rich. The Scythe, The Guardian (introducing new story elements during the conclusion is just unbelievably amateurish) Angel's appearance and a love triangle! So the show avoids using this trash trope for seven seasons just to go full twilight in its penultimate episode? However, there's one thing that's even worse. Buffy asks Xander to kidnap Dawn because, apparently, she can't just talk to her and Xander, aside from not wanting to be a one-eyed cow or whatever, is OK with that? Just kidnaps Dawn in the same way Fritz kidnapped Willow in I Robot, You Jane? This is so unbelievably tone deaf and in complete opposite to the season's theme of empowerment and also the development of Buffy's and Dawn's relationship as portrayed in Grave, Lessons and other episodes. Buffy, you're a butthole and Xander, you are spineless. And I'm just disappointed.

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    Just kidnaps Dawn in the same way Fritz kidnapped Willow in I Robot, You Jane?
    This just made me laugh so much. Fritz and Xander, separated at birth

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    Chosen

    Positive: The battle is awesome! Obviously, there are some issues with the writing, visual effects, production - whatever, it's awesome! Every character gets at least that one moment when they get to be an absolute badass. That's good enough for me.

    Negative: Angel is just the worst. Angel, no! You dumped her (and then picked eternal life over her, dated other women, had a son etc) You have no right to act jealous. Dude, show some class.

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    End of Days

    Positive - Buffy is so kick ass with that scythe and I really appreciate her conversation with Faith and the degree of understanding they show. Anya and Andrew too are great. But after sneaking those in, I've got to go with the interactions between Spike and Buffy in this episode. Her telling Spike he gave her the strength to get the scythe and their whole conversation around that. The shift in their interactions now shows where they've grown to in their ability to support each other. It isn't perfect and they don't tie a neat bow around it and manage to define it or try to make it sugary sweet, but they're moving their relationship forward and developing a very genuine connection that is about building each other up positively. It's what the season is about there to see.

    Negative - I wish there had been more to build up to the elements they pulled in at the end. The whole Guardians bit especially feels a step too far.



    Chosen

    Positive - Buffy's belief in Spike and how much it means to him is great, but I have to go with Spike's willingness to give up his life for the greater good, a world full of people that he doesn't personally know/care about. Buffy telling him she loves him and him not making any move to leave but standing firm, determined to see it through to the end was just a plain damn heroic sacrifice and the journey he had to get here was quite simply utterly fantastic. Becoming the best you can be and putting yourself on the line for others, it's at the heart of the show for me.

    Negative - I do have issues with the empowerment spell that I've somewhat come to terms with over the years, but still the Turok-Han becoming so much easier to fight frustrates me.

    --
    Arrrgh we've come to the end and the worst thing about it truly is that it's the last time we saw all these people on screen together. It isn't my favourite episode of the season but there is so much 'epic' brilliance that comes with this being the end of a season and the last of the show that makes me feel sentimental every time and sad to see the closing credits.

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    Day 22 - Chosen

    Positive: I love the message of empowerment within this episode. Don't be scared, believe in yourself, know you're going to win. Choose to be strong. You don't have to be what you're told you are and if you have power, you can and should share it. I think it's a wonderful culmination of seven years and is everything I wanted Buffy to be.

    Negative: I don't mind Angel being here, he's a very important part of the verse and very important to Buffy, but I really hate the cookie dough speech. It feels like a cop out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    but still the Turok-Han becoming so much easier to fight frustrates me.
    I don't think they've become easier to fight, I think it's the message of empowerment; if women fight together, what they're fighting becomes easier to defeat.

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    Just realised I never finished this...

    End of Days:

    Positives: There are some nice moments sprinkled throughout this episode including the Buffy & Faith conversation, Buffy & Xander conversation, Anya & Andrew moment, Buffy & Spike moment, and Angel's return. I also like the hero moment of Buffy rescuing the Potentials and although the choreography of the Buffy & Caleb fight is actually fairly underwhelming, the moment a invigorated Buffy picks up the Scythe and despatches of Caleb is badass.

    Negatives: The resolution of the Empty Places fight is handled incredibly poorly. There is no reconciliation between Buffy and the Scoobies besides some blink-and-you'll-miss-it smile between Buffy & Willow and the expectation that not only will the audience just forget all about it, but that we're meant to buy scenes such as Buffy & Xander talking about how "he's her strength" with no acknowledgment of their biggest fight in the whole series.

    The inclusion of the Guardian is also really amateurish. She comes out of nowhere, delivers some fanfic-y mythology exposition dump, and then is killed and forgotten about. The plot has been shaky before but this is just incredibly lazy and the quality of writing is beneath Buffy.

    I also hate the "cliffhanger" at the end of Spike watching Buffy & Angel kiss with The First taunting him. So, am I supposed to think there's a chance Spike is going to forget he had a soul, team up with The First and betray Buffy, because he's a scorned lover? Mkay. Were the writers so burned out by this point that the best cliffhanger they could come up with for the penultimate episode of the entire series was some silly love triangle moment that is forgotten about in all of 2 seconds at the start of the next episode?


    Chosen:

    Positives: The tone of this episode is what I think Season 7 should have been all along. There's a lot to love including Buffy's face lighting up at seeing Angel again, the Slayer montage, Xander stroking Xander's head, the callback to The Harvest, the amazing Buffy & Spike moment, and Buffy's final hopeful smile. The battle scene also has some really impressive moments (the slow motion shot of Buffy decapitating the Ubervamp is great) and I like that Anya was killed in such a quick, brutal and tragic way to emphasise the reality of war. It's a nice conclusion to Anya, Spike, and Buffy and Willow's, to an extent, arcs.

    Negatives: There's some glaring plot holes and shortcuts taking in the writing which is just inexcusable. How did Buffy know that the Scythe could be used to activate all the Slayers? How did Willow know how to even do it? Neither is actually ever explained. And Joss has admitted that he made the Turok Han weaker and that, yes, it was a plot hole, because he cared more about the emotion of the story then it's internal logic which is, frankly, just really lame and poor writing no matter how he wants to try and justify it. A good writer should balance both. I feel this is where Joss started to go wrong in his writing as he started to do these shortcuts more frequently, and more glaringly, and I feel arrogance and buying into his own hype made him feel like he could get away with it.

    But I guess my biggest negative of the episode is that, despite it being ok, and despite it being my favourite episode of the season, it's just greatly inferior to The Gift. I like the ending of Buffy living better but it's sad the series didn't go out on a creative high.
    "You've got ... a world of strength in your heart. I know you do. You just have to find it again. Believe in yourself."

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