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Thread: The Passion Of The Nerd - Team Cookie Dough

  1. #61
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    Like I said If Spike had lived and they'd been further seasons of Buffy then they maybe could have taken a slow and careful route back to forming some kind of relationship, but the AR certainly poisoned the water imo.

    Thats why Espenson was right in her assumption. It's not a plot point you can walk easily away from.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    His drinking was becoming a problem even back then apparently. I have a feeing that it was the moment he got a taste of fame and a larger income.

    I hadn't heard that they'd had a problem with Charisma, apart from the infamous pregnancy thing.

    Oh dear...
    Current fandom really likes to frame that situation a certain way. Charisma's issues with learning lines and hitting marks was there from the beginning. They had to hire a special coach to come in to help her with things. There was a lot more going on there than the current claim of her getting pregnant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Current fandom really likes to frame that situation a certain way. Charisma's issues with learning lines and hitting marks was there from the beginning. They had to hire a special coach to come in to help her with things. There was a lot more going on there than the current claim of her getting pregnant.
    Yes, Charisma talked about her problems, I think I read it on Slayers & Vampires - The Complete, Uncensored, Unauthorized Oral History of Buffy and Angel; I'm looking for the quotes.
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    I think it is right that they didn't go there on the show, but they did do a slow development of Spike/Buffy post the AR and him becoming souled since. I know it's the comic continuation and many in fandom don't care about it, but it is Joss' official continuation and they have gone there and specifically dealt with Spike and Buffy's history and faced the backlash from those in fandom that disapprove or hate the pairing but they've done it anyway so they obviously do feel like it could be gotten past in time.

    EDIT: And yeah, I think Buffy meant the ILY. I don't think she wanted or would have actively sought a romantic relationship at that point, but I think her actions through the season showed really clearly that she loved him so her words have always seemed sincere to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I'm sure early on POTN said he was basing all his Buffy reviews on Mark Fields book. I think it's shame really that he's hamstrung himself to one text, when there is a whole world of Buffy work out there. I've not read the book.
    I never read reviews or books on Buffy. I like discussing it because it feels like I play an active part in my understanding of the show and my interpretation. Just reading on it feels like I'd be being told what to think. I'm not sure if that makes sense.
    Last edited by Stoney; 12-04-18 at 05:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Current fandom really likes to frame that situation a certain way. Charisma's issues with learning lines and hitting marks was there from the beginning. They had to hire a special coach to come in to help her with things. There was a lot more going on there than the current claim of her getting pregnant.
    Yeah, that doesn't come as much a surprise to me sadly.

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    Slayers & Vampires - The Complete, Uncensored, Unauthorized Oral History of Buffy and Angel

    Edward Gross and Mark A. Altman

    Charisma talking about her anxiety problem:



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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Really surprised how many of you are on the bookie-dough wagon. Personally I thought it was bland and pandering on the show and feel it's even more bland and pandering when anyone backs it in real life.

    I admit I have an axe to grind, I'm a massive Spuffy fan. To me Buffy loved Spike in S6 and could finally admit it in S7. I can't help but feel POTN is not wanting to alienate his public. As I say, wait till S7, he'll be a Spuffy fan by the end of the show, bugger the cookie dough
    I see bookiedough as simply saying what we all know - none of Buffy's relationships were supremely healthy in the show. I can definitely appreciate Spuffy, but it requires leaving the constraints of the show and making change (as all fan fiction does). I do think what Buffy and Spike had was beautiful, but I also think it wasn't sustainable for life partners. But Buffy and Spike had some growing up to do whether it was done in fiction or in the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    Well I was told years back by someone in the know so to speak, that the studio had wanted to fire Brendon years earlier then a lot of us suspected. I can't remember at what season, (maybe season 4?) Which completely shocked me.

    Apparently it was only the intervention of Whedon and (I think) SMG that got them to reconsider. So the poor sod was always playing on borrowed time sadly.
    Yeah - he told the press immediately aftr the show was over that he was going into rehab. I wasn't even a Buffy fan, but for some reasoni took note of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by HardlyThere View Post
    Current fandom really likes to frame that situation a certain way. Charisma's issues with learning lines and hitting marks was there from the beginning. They had to hire a special coach to come in to help her with things. There was a lot more going on there than the current claim of her getting pregnant.
    I am one of few people who - while decrying the way Joss treated Charsma - will also point out how incredibly unprofessional it is to get pregnant while under contract and not tell the showrunners until well after the entire season arc has been laid out. She was already showing when she started filming. Charisma seems like a lovely woman but clearly this was the last straw for Joss.
    Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

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    Fandom has definitely oversimplified the Joss/Charisma situation. It'll never be ok how he went about firing her (and he can be a prick - you should see SMG publicly calling him out for his comments about Cruel Intentions at the time) but there was more to it than "Joss is angry because Charisma got pregnant." As I said, there's articles still archived on Whedonesque from that time and they were speculating whether or not Charisma was going to return as a cast member for S4. There was already dramas prior to S4 and prior to Charisma getting pregnant. I think she seems like a nice lady but I also think she had moments of unprofessionalism as well which contributed to the bad blood between them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bespangled View Post
    I am one of few people who - while decrying the way Joss treated Charsma - will also point out how incredibly unprofessional it is to get pregnant while under contract and not tell the showrunners until well after the entire season arc has been laid out. She was already showing when she started filming. Charisma seems like a lovely woman but clearly this was the last straw for Joss.
    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    I think she seems like a nice lady but I also think she had moments of unprofessionalism as well which contributed to the bad blood between them.
    I also think that what she did was wrong, very wrong but... she had had a miscarriage, wanted a baby so bad, and decided to hold on to that pregnancy no matter what. And it seems it was her only chance, because she has not had children since. It's complicated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by betta View Post
    I also think that what she did was wrong, very wrong but... she had had a miscarriage, wanted a baby so bad, and decided to hold on to that pregnancy no matter what. And it seems it was her only chance, because she has not had children since. It's complicated.
    The thing of it is that yes, they were frustrated with the delayed announcement, it's not why they "destroyed" Cordy in S4. Cordy was always slated to be bad in S4. What changed was instead of being Jasmine, they made her pregnant with Jasmine to explain her pregnancy. It wasn't some vengeance against Charisma and there is zero to indicate she was, as the fandom claims, she was fired over it.

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