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Thread: Who wants to rewatcht season 3 BtVS with me ?

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    Mr. Trick is the most intersting - no, the only interesting - vampire, we have met since Spike. I am trying to remember, if we will meet any other witty and intelligent vampires during the next four and a half seasons. I don`t really think so. The only other vampire, who will show up and is not one-dimensional, badly dressed and all fanged out, will probably be Harmony.
    The only one I can think of is Holden Webster, the psych student from CWDP.

    Buffy finally comes around about what happened to Angel and that the the soul restoring spell did work. Yet, Buffy still does not know, that Willow sent her a message about trying the spell once again. And she won`t find out for another four years.....
    And by the time they bring it up again, it doesn't matter at all. That's life, the things that were important once, with the passage of time, become inconsequential. I think it was an amazing way for the show to handle something that had been hanging over Xander's head for years.

    I am sad to say, I have to disagree with you, Pricey, here. I think, Faith is just great. Character, actress, fighting style, cool attitude - I can even feel her grief and guilt about not being able to save her watcher.
    I could never get on the Faith train. I didn't like her the moment she snatched that stake out of Buffy's hand. Even now, when she's well on the road to redemption and has helped Buffy countless times, I'm still not a fan.

    Ughhh...I don`t fancy naked Angel. He really needs clothes.
    He's not as beautiful as Spike, I'll give you that

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    It is time for Beauty and the Beasts :

    I hate Buffy`s outfits this season. The only nice piece of clothing, she has been wearing so far, was the dress at the party in Dead Man`s Party.

    I also dislike those little flowers and butterflies, she is constantly wearing in her hair. That would be suitable for a seven year old, not a seventeen year old.

    Scott is a nice guy and in his own way even cute, but I don`t see any chemistry between him and Buffy. They have only dated a few times, but they already give the impression of a couple, that is very bored of each other and does not have sex anymore.

    Angel has found trousers but no shirt - what a pity :-(

    Giles: "In my experience, there are... two types of
    monster. The first, uh, can be redeemed, or more importantly, wants to
    be redeemed.....The second is void of humanity, cannot respond to reason... or
    love."

    Awwww, Giles, sometimes you just hit the nail on the head....

    It os so sad, that the only person, Buffy feels, she can talk to, is a dead shrink.

    Oh, I love that line ! "Bloody Priceless"....that`s your line, pricey

    Okay, this was a solid episode, but nothing much, to write home about.

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    It os so sad, that the only person, Buffy feels, she can talk to, is a dead shrink
    That's the first dead shrink Buffy talks to, the second one is in Season 7's CWDP

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    After rethinking my reviw of Beauty And The Beasts, I have to add some thoughts about the scene, where Angel kills demon!Pete.

    First of all, how could Buffy have been so sloppy, as to not chain Angel up properly ? He could have been really dangerous. He could have hurt or even killed somebody (well, somebody else except for demon!Pete). Her feelings for Angel blinded her judgement and made her put everybody elses life at risk. People, who were not even aware of that risk, because they did not know, that Angel was back and feral.

    Okay, I am being a bit sarcastic here. But I have heard so many times, how reckless Buffy behaved, when she chained Spike up properly in season 7, while everybody around knew about him and the trigger. Is this just another case of double standard ?

    I don`t really hold the sloppy chaining business against Buffy. After all, we are all just human. Even the slayers amongst us.

    But here is my real problem with this episode:

    Angels escapes his chains, runs straight to the highschool and finds the room, where demon!Pete has cornered Buffy in an instant.

    How did Angel know, Buffy, where he would find Buffy and that she needed his help ? And why for gods sake is Buffy portrayed as the damsel in distress, who does not stand a chance against one simple demon and has to be saved by Angel from impending death ? This show is about Buffy being the Slayer. Shouldn`t she have been able, to fight demon!Pete off herself ? Couldn`t they have at least let them fight demon!Pete together ? Buffy is standing in a corner, as if she has never ever before seen a demon, let alone fought and killed dozens of them.

    My guess is, that they shoved Buffy aside and pushed Angel in the limelight, to get the message through, that Angel is now a goodie two shoe again and that all his actions, while being soulless, including the murder of Jenny Calendar, are forgiven

    I am completely okay, with the solution, the writers forced upon us. Angel is good again. Hey, fine with me. But I strongly dislike that they beliitled Buffys fighting abilities, to do that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    First of all, how could Buffy have been so sloppy, as to not chain Angel up properly ? He could have been really dangerous. He could have hurt or even killed somebody (well, somebody else except for demon!Pete). Her feelings for Angel blinded her judgement and made her put everybody elses life at risk. People, who were not even aware of that risk, because they did not know, that Angel was back and feral.

    Okay, I am being a bit sarcastic here. But I have heard so many times, how reckless Buffy behaved, when she chained Spike up properly in season 7, while everybody around knew about him and the trigger. Is this just another case of double standard?
    It's not a double standard. In S7 Buffy let triggered Spike roam free around the house in episodes like Potential, First Date, Get it Done and Storyteller. Spike could have attacked the group when Buffy was out on a date with Principal Wood, or when she was trapped in the First Slayer's time dimension, or when she was out at work, and she wouldn't have been there to stop him. In fact, in The Killer In Me it actually Spike that insists that he tries to keep himself chained up as much as possible whilst Buffy tries to argue that he's been fine and acts as if he's being overly cautious. This was all whilst the trigger was still active and Spike could have attacked at any moment. So it's actually incorrect to even credit Buffy with chaining Spike up when she didn't think he even needed to be.

    You can accuse Buffy of being reckless for underestimating Angel's strength (she did tie him up properly it's just that Angel manages to break the metal bar she had tied him to) but then that's also true of when she tied Spike to a chair with nothing but ropes in Never Leave Me and he managed to break free from them and tear a chunk out of Andrew's neck. But she at the very least understood that Angel could pose a danger to people and had enough common sense to keep him chained up. In S7 she behaves very recklessly by allowing Spike to roam around the house unchained, especially when she wasn't home, and she does very little to investigate the trigger and try and cure him.

    How did Angel know, Buffy, where he would find Buffy and that she needed his help?
    The same way Angel (or Spike) have always found Buffy? He's a vampire. He can smell and track her.

    And why for gods sake is Buffy portrayed as the damsel in distress, who does not stand a chance against one simple demon and has to be saved by Angel from impending death ? This show is about Buffy being the Slayer. Shouldn`t she have been able, to fight demon!Pete off herself ? Couldn`t they have at least let them fight demon!Pete together ? Buffy is standing in a corner, as if she has never ever before seen a demon, let alone fought and killed dozens of them.
    I feel this is an exaggeration. Firstly, there's really nothing in that scene to suggest Buffy was facing "impending death" or needed "saving" by Angel. Buffy fights Pete in the library and clearly has the upper hand. He briefly has the upper-hand against her in their second fight but you'll notice that Buffy kicks Pete away from her moments before Angel interrupted. There's really not anything to suggest that had Angel not burst into the room that Buffy would have lost that fight. Secondly, Buffy isn't standing in the corner as if she's "never seen a demon before." She's standing in the corner completely shocked that Angel has a) appeared out nowhere, b) is acting so viciously and, c) is trying to protect her. The shock of what she is witnessing is understandable and reasonable under the circumstances.

    And even if Angel had "come to her rescue", this would be nothing new for the show? Buffy has had other characters intervene and save her life on numerous occasions. Joyce saved her from Spike in Schoolhard, Xander saved her from Theresa in Phases, Faith saved her from Mr Trick in Consequences, Willow saved her from the demon in The Wish, Riley saved her from the punk vampire in Fool For Love, Angel saved her from Caleb in End of Days etc. She was no more a "damsel" in those scenes than she would have been here.

    My guess is, that they shoved Buffy aside and pushed Angel in the limelight, to get the message through, that Angel is now a goodie two shoe again and that all his actions, while being soulless, including the murder of Jenny Calendar, are forgiven
    Or they didn't know how to resolve the Pete subplot and felt uncomfortable with the idea of Buffy killing him (given that he was a student and not so much a "demon" as a science experiment gone wrong) and that Angel killing him was a convenient way of the writer's getting rid of Pete, resolving the episode's plot, having Angel demonstrate his desire to help Buffy, and keep Buffy's hand's clean from Pete's death...
    Last edited by vampmogs; 02-03-18 at 09:11 AM.
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    The same way Angel (or Spike) have always found Buffy? He's a vampire. He can smell and track her.
    That`s right, but I meant to say "How come, he knew, that it was important, to smell and track her?" Shortly before he does not even seem to recognise her and suddenly he goes "Hey, I got to break my chains and instantly find Buffy, because I know she is in danger ?" For all he knew, she could have been making out with Scott in that room and than he would have looked rather stupid, if he had burst into it.

    I want to clarify, that I am not trying to bash Angel here. I really like his character. . I just feel, he has been used as a deus ex machina in this scene. It seems a bit unexplained, why he looked for Buffy in the first place.

    There's really not anything to suggest that had Angel not burst into the room that Buffy would have lost that fight.
    That is exactly my problem. She did not really need his help. Yet he bursts in and fight away her attacker although she would have been able to do that herself. It would have been more plausible, if she had been knocked out unconscious. There is nothing wrong with being knocked out. It happens to Giles all the time.

    Or, I would have liked the scene better, if they had at least fought together. That is a huge difference to the scene in End of Days, that you mentioned. He does help her with Caleb, but she finishes the job herself.

    Or they didn't know how to resolve the Pete subplot and felt uncomfortable with the idea of Buffy killing him
    That is actually a good point, given, that Pete and Buffy knew each other and Pete was the best friend of Buffy`s boyfriend. It would have been weird, had she killed him, even if he was a demon at that moment. Which leads to the question, if she would actually have gone through with killing him.

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    Beauty And The Beasts

    I like the reading of Call of the Wild it's very atmospheric.

    Xander goes from gay panic to purient father, demanding of Willow 'which half' of Oz has she handled. He's one mixed up kid and I sometimes wish they had made him gay/bi rather than Willow. I also have to say he looks really good in this episode, not sure it it's the t-shirt or the hair or what.

    Then we have Faith over interested in Buffy's sex life. She's not got a very positive view of men, and for this show I pretty much agree with her They have not aged very well into the 21st century.

    Mr Platt seems like a good guy, it's a shame Buffy couldn't be truly honest with him, it might have helped her in the long run.

    Buffy's shock at seeing Angel again is great. Poor Buffy, just when she's getting her life back on track. DB is great as a snarling animal. But where did he get those trousers?

    The morgue scene irritates me because Will, Xan and Cordy have seen so much horror in the last two years, their reactions to this body just seem over the top. Willow fainting is just ridiculous. We know a dead body that's been mauled is grotesque, we don't need this bad writing to force the point.

    Pete and Debbie are incredibly unimportant to this episode, only there so the killer wasn't Angel or Oz. But their unimportance undermines the 'domestic abuse' story line which is a shame because it's such an important subject that I wish the show could have looked at it with more more depth and subtlety. Debbie rocking madly and repeating 'he does love me he does love me' is too silly.

    Giles getting shot with the tranq is one of the funniest things the show ever did and ASH delivery of 'bloody priceless' is wonderful.

    For me, Angel killing Pete was just his instinct as a beast at work. He'd protect Buffy no matter what, and he was too weak and disorientated to stop himself. I think he can be seen as both a literal beast and as Faith's 'men are all beasts' in this instant because both versions are at play within Angel right then. Only with Pete's death does he finally stop being bestial.

    The way Angel falls to his knees, clinging to Buffy and Buffy's reaction are beautiful. I love how the scene opens up to show the two dead lovers. Are we meant to think that this is what love does, so Buffy be careful with this Angel. Or that the Buffy/Angel relationship is forged in death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    That`s right, but I meant to say "How come, he knew, that it was important, to smell and track her?" Shortly before he does not even seem to recognise her and suddenly he goes "Hey, I got to break my chains and instantly find Buffy, because I know she is in danger ?" For all he knew, she could have been making out with Scott in that room and than he would have looked rather stupid, if he had burst into it.
    I was never under the impression that he was tracking her because he knew she was in danger. He just wanted to track her because he remembers her and then he happens to find her whilst she's in danger. There's no way he could have known she was in danger whilst chained in the mansion and I never felt it was the writer's intent for us to believe that.

    That is exactly my problem. She did not really need his help. Yet he bursts in and fight away her attacker although she would have been able to do that herself. It would have been more plausible, if she had been knocked out unconscious.
    I guess I just don't understand why it's so important whether or not she "needed" his help? To me, what that scene was trying to convey is that even in his animalistic state Angel instinctively wanted to help Buffy. The importance of that isn't lost because she's not knocked unconscious or because she wouldn't have died without his help. The meaning behind the scene is not whether or not Buffy needed Angel's help but that after 100 hundred years of torture he still cared enough to fight for her and it was by remembering Buffy that he was able to retain any semblance of self (as Giles states).

    Or, I would have liked the scene better, if they had at least fought together. That is a huge difference to the scene in End of Days, that you mentioned. He does help her with Caleb, but she finishes the job herself.
    I personally think the scene was a lot more poignant how it was written. Seeing Buffy react with such surprise at Angel's intervention is a lot more moving to me than if her and a feral Angel had fought in unison. I'd actually have found that far less plausible given the state he was in. I just found it far more believable that Buffy would be frozen with shock and also a little weary to get near him then leaping into the fight to battle alongside him.
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    I was never under the impression that he was tracking her because he knew she was in danger. He just wanted to track her because he remembers her and then he happens to find her whilst she's in danger. There's no way he could have known she was in danger whilst chained in the mansion and I never felt it was the writer's intent for us to believe that.
    I agree he was just tracking Buffy because he remembers her, but I disagree that he wouldn't have known she was in danger or at least in a fight. The chemicals in her body would have been giving of a different smell, and as a 'beast' he would have been able to smell her fear or her raised adrenaline. Animals can smell fear, excitement, they know when there's a fight going on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I agree he was just tracking Buffy because he remembers her, but I disagree that he wouldn't have known she was in danger or at least in a fight. The chemicals in her body would have been giving of a different smell, and as a 'beast' he would have been able to smell her fear or her raised adrenaline. Animals can smell fear, excitement, they know when there's a fight going on.
    Not all the way back at the mansion, though. He would have begun to smell it the closer he got (hence bursting into the room like he did) but I doubt vampire senses are so powerful that they can sense danger/fight from ages away. If they could then that would expose major plot holes in the show when Angel and Spike could/should have shown up for a lot more fights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    Not all the way back at the mansion, though. He would have begun to smell it the closer he got (hence bursting into the room like he did) but I doubt vampire senses are so powerful that they can sense danger/fight from ages away. If they could then that would expose major plot holes in the show when Angel and Spike could/should have shown up for a lot more fights.
    Lol, yes you are probably right, but in this episode Angel isn't just vamp Angel, he's a 'beast' as the title tells us. He's come back as an animal, and it's his animal instincts that are at play here, not only his vamp ones. He has to deliberately use his vamp abilities, but his animal instincts are always there, and it's these instincts that are at play in this episode.

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    I got so distracted this week with reading "West of the Moon, East of the Sun", that I forgot, to announce the episodes due on rewatch this week. They are

    Homecoming

    and

    Band Candy.

    I won`t be able to watch them until Friday, but maybe someone else wants to start this weeks episode rewatch comments.

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    Homecoming

    Was Buffy stringing Scott along? She's lying to everyone, she's obviously still in love with Angel so she should really not be planning of going to the prom with Scott, and I can totally understand why he finishes with her.

    The Mayor's obsession with cleanliness is so creepy. I also like how he talks about his mother, and we later learn he has been married, it just adds so many interesting layers to his character.

    Some Fuffy action in the library, either Faith is being supportive friend, or trying-to-get-into-your-pants friend

    Cordy v Buffy is one of the most exciting political campaigns on the 1990's. These women are amazing. Buffy's strength/weakness board is fun and I love the musical montage showing the bribery and corruption apparent in both campaigns, inter cut with Slayerfest 98 prep. Both competitions are equally as vicious.

    Willow and Xander. There was just no build up to this. Xander has been batting off Willow's advances for years, and now he's smitten because she's rounded second with Oz and looks good in a black dress. Teenagers are really idiots with raging hormones.

    Faith std slur about Scott is just classless and mean. Scott had every right to break up with Buffy, he wasn't cruel about it and didn't deserve Faith's over reaction.

    Buffy and Cordy working together and revealing their fears and insecurities to each other is so well written. They are never truly friends but they do grow to understand each other a little more. I like vulnerable Buffy and angry Cordy, they could so easily be each other and I think that's partly why they can never really be friends. Buffy was once Cordy and Cordy does become Buffy.

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    Band Candy

    Giles helping Buffy with her revision is odd, he wants her to do well but must know she can not go away for college. Wouldn't he want her to stay around the Hellmouth, so wouldn't it be better if she did badly in the exams? Maybe he's just checking that she's as dumb as he thought and there's no way she's ever leaving Sunnydale and him (harsh reading of Giles there, I admit )

    Buffy finds it so easy to lie to Joyce and Giles so she can visit Angel. Then she lies to Angel about Scott. This must all be stressing her out, with the SAT's too, she's under so much pressure.

    OMG the shirtless tai chi. And it takes him a moment to realise Buffy is there, so much for his vampire senses . . . unless he was enjoying her watching him . . . I'm pretty sure Buffy was enjoying it.

    Xander/Willow footsie in front of Cordy, is just disrespectful and I really dislike it.

    I cannot believe this was Joyce as a young woman. She couldn't even give Buffy the sex talk without embarrassment, I cannot imagine her ever being this adventurous. I put it down to Ripper's bad influence and his sexy earing.

    I also resent the inference that older people cannot be wild unless they are under a spell

    Why does it seem that it's mostly black people who are working the factory conveyor line? There do seem to be more than usual black people in the Bronze too. It's something that always sticks out for me in this episode. Has anyone else noticed it?

    Always nice to see Ethan Rayne, one of my favourite little-bads. Wish he had a bigger role in the episode, he was a bit wasted here.

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    I have temporarily abandoned this thread but I have not forgotten it !

    Today it is time for

    Homecoming !

    I actually find Scott a bit boyish. Not in a bad way. But he looks younger than Buffy. Or maybe it just seems that way, because all her other boyfriends are older than she is ?

    Oh, Buffy lets Angel roam free.....well. Yes. Not that I mind that. I think, she is perfectly justified, to let ensouled vampires roam free.

    I am not quite sure, how I feel about Buffy telling Angel, that she is seeing a solid guy, whom she can count on and who makes her happy. She seems to be a bit cold and harsh in that scene. But it is thrown right back into her face in the next scene, when Scott breaks up with her. I did not see any romance between them or genuine feelings on Buffy`s side. They had only just begun to go out. But it adds to Buffy`s - as she will call it later - stellar history with guys.

    Xander does look gorgeous in a tux. Willow`s dress is also beautiful, but I don`t buy the sudden physical attraction between them. They always had the brother-sister vibe, imho.

    Why do villains always take such pain to explain to their victims, that, when, why and how they are going to kill them ?
    And why, when there are two of them, is one always standing aside, until the other has been dusted ?

    Was that spatula really made out of wood ?

    Cordy scared a vampire away, by simply talking to him.....good for her !

    Let`s do a vote on dresses. You can rank:

    - Cordy`s green neckholder dress with a long slit at the side
    - Buffy`s red fifties style dress
    - Willow`s slim black dress
    - Faith`s dark purple minidress.

    My ranking order is:

    1. black
    2. green
    3. red
    4. purple

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    Was that spatula really made out of wood ?
    i thought the spatula was plastic.

    Cordy's green dress was stunning

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    Let`s have some

    Band Candy !

    I have often heard JM saying about the AR scene, that he did not want to do it, that he felt awkward doing it and that he feared, it might ruin his career. I am wondering, if DB felt the same about the Tai Chi Scene ?

    The only grown up, who is convincingly acting like a teen is Snyder. I like the way, he wants to bond with the group. Giles looks a bit ridiculous with his plaid shirt tied around his waist. Did he borrow Spikeīs boots ? And has he actually used an eyliner ? I am usually a huge fan of ASH, but this is not his greatest moment on the show.

    What I liked most about this episode, was the coat, Giles stole for Joyce. That was a really nice looking coat. Otherwise this episode is really nothing much to write home about, imho.

    Stay tuned for next weeks Revelations and watch with us Lovers Walk !

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    I watched these this week too.

    Homecoming is a great ep for Cordelia, I love that she put herself in front of Buffy when she was down, so gutsy. I also find it really sad to see how Faith is trying to integrate, is looking to be a supportive friend to Buffy, but it isn't getting noticed so much. Her trick on Scott and his date, it's a bit childish, but her intention is still to try and be a supportive friend (whilst still too with the cynical attitude towards guys obviously). I don't think she's being deliberately shunned, but her wish to try to be a part of the group and connect with Buffy is so clear at this stage it just makes me feel badly for her. I can't help picture her alone in that awful hotel, The Council really have an appalling attitude towards the slayers.

    I really find Band Candy overrated. I think Giles as 'Ripper' is awkward and a bit silly. The whole plot has so many holes in it it's quite ridiculous. But I adore teenage Snyder. You can see him completely as an unpopular teen who tries to latch himself onto those who have power, just like he does with the Mayor as an adult. And the 'Summers you drive like a spaz' line really makes me laugh. One of the weakest episodes of the season though.
    Last edited by Stoney; 12-04-18 at 04:00 AM.

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  25. #39
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    A new week has started, so letīs have some

    Revelations:

    Another Tai Chi lesson. I am not really into Tai Chi and maybe this scene would work better for me, if I understood, what they are doing here, but my main problem is, that I simply fail to see any chemistry between Angel and Buffy.

    Why is that? Is it me? Am I under a blinding spell? Am I too young? Too old? Not romantic enough? To much of a cynic? Or is David Boreanaz killing it, because he looks bored to hell and as if he rather was on an evening out with his mates, drinking beer and enjoying a game of soccer (or whatever games the have in the US instead of soccer)?

    Faith has a new watcher thrown into her face. She is opening up to Buffy. She asks Buffy to do the same. She is really trying to get close. I can understand, that Buffy doesn`t want to pour out her heart to Faith. She doesn`t even do it with Willow or Xander. But Faith is reaching out. And then she goes to the cemetary all on her own and very bravely starts to fight a demon. Is there any reason, why the demon does not bother to kill her? Except, that it is another creature ignoring her ?

    Angel`s mansion is actually quite nice. Does anybody think, he pays rent for it ?

    Giles gets knocked out again. Poor guy.

    There is - once again- a rift between Buffy, her friends and Giles It has already been there between season1 and season2 and once more at the beginning of season3 after Buffy has returned from L.A.

    Now Angel is back, undead and ensouled. She considers him to not be dangerous. And she is right about that, no doubt. But why, if she is certain, he is no longer a threat, does she not talk to her friends about it? Giles points it out to her. He was tortured by Angel for hours. He has a right to know. Cordy is right as well. Angel went after Buffy`s friends. She has a right to know as well.

    I can`t help feeling, that Buffy does not take the pain or anger or fear of her friends serious enough in this situation. Instead she thinks, she can make Giles happy again by killing a demon.

    Faith is far more likeable than Buffy is in this episode.

    Tar Frim !

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    Another Tai Chi lesson. I am not really into Tai Chi and maybe this scene would work better for me, if I understood, what they are doing here, but my main problem is, that I simply fail to see any chemistry between Angel and Buffy.
    I agree. There is no chemistry between the two. I think the thai chi is meant to make you believe there is something always sexual between them, but it doesn't work for me. Spike and Buffy can be fully dressed, glaring at each other and they'd have more sexual chemistry.

    Why is that? Is it me? Am I under a blinding spell? Am I too young? Too old? Not romantic enough? To much of a cynic? Or is David Boreanaz killing it, because he looks bored to hell and as if he rather was on an evening out with his mates, drinking beer and enjoying a game of soccer (or whatever games the have in the US instead of soccer)?
    It's the acting. DB cannot emote. His face is solid and shows very little emotion. There are so many scenes where someone is acting their heart out, begging him, loving him, whatever, and he stays remote and impassive until it's his turn to say his lines, then he comes alive. He doesn't know how to react and be part of a scene even if he isn't the one with the lines. There is a scene between him and Romanov (Lilah) where she is acting her heart out, and DB just leans on his desk, totally impassive until it's his turn to talk. It's awful.

    Faith is far more likeable than Buffy is in this episode.
    Not possible

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