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Thread: Who wants to rewatcht season 3 BtVS with me ?

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    Lovers Walk

    The reason why I don`t like to rewatch season3 is, that is has only one Spike Episode in it. Imho that is even worse than season1. I know, that season1 does not even have one single Spike epiosde. But I only miss him for twelve episodes in season1, whereas I have to plough throuh the unbelieveable amount of twentyone Spikeless episodes in season3.

    Don`t expect any unbiased opinions about Lovers Walk from me. You have been warned

    I love to hear JM singing.....I did it mahay way..... (By the way, I also love to see JM acting)

    I have to admit, that I find it almost heartbreaking, when I see Xander looking at the pictures of him and Cordy in Cordelias locker and saying "I never knew I was locker door material". There is so much awe and surprise and hope and happiness in his voice, that his stupid Willow kissing and playing footsie with her is even more unbelieveable, than it already was from the beginning.

    Willow is faking her joy about Oz`little pez witch present. Good acting by AH.

    I feel very sorry for the Magic Shop owner. She was such a nice and kind Lady.

    How did Spike know, that Willow would be in the school laboratory at night? I can suddenly understand some of Xanders resentment towards Spike, considering that he just got punched in the face twice.

    Joyce: "Xander is a witch?" That is so funny. I love Joyce.

    Can anyone explain to me please, what "Peaches" means? Apart from the fruit. Or, if there is no other meaning, why does Spike basically call Angel "Fruits"?

    Love`s a funny thing!

    Next week it is gonna be The Wish and Amends.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    A new week has started, so let´s have some
    I watched both of these this week too.

    I have to say I actually like the Bangel Tai Chi scene. That, the ice skating and the graveyard picnic are probably my favourite Bangely moments. I don't think DB does a great job on the romance side generally, I think he does just try to rely on being tall dark and broody to make hearts go afluttering and he's better as the tall dark broody lead in his own show, but I like some aspects of Bangel.

    Revelations is all about Faith for me. Seeing her try to be a supportive friend in splitting Scott up from his date in Homecoming was interesting alongside offering to go with Buffy and we get more of her attempting to join Buffy and the group here too. She's training/patrolling and we've now got her trying to share with Buffy and reaching out as you say. She is trying to join the gang, is supportive of Giles when Post first arrives and is hurt when she is excluded and then made to look a fool. As she calls Buffy back you know that she is wanting to fix it further but just doesn't know how to get herself to let the barriers down. I've a lot of time for Faith and think it is atrocious how she was stranded and left to deal with some horrific trauma alone. Some of this is the scoobies not realising what a mess she is in or being distracted by their own issues, but a great deal is at the feet of the Council who treat slayers in an appalling way. Faith is supposed to be grateful for her awful apartment/room because it makes her a good warrior is she?? Bull.

    Buffy has a heck of a lot churning under the surface over Angel's return and I think she was uncertain what she felt, worried about what could happen, guilty about having started to move on too. She should have told the others but there was likely also fear at how they would react on behalf of Angel as well as not wanting to raise memories that were difficult and clashing with them again. It's all just a mess really.

    Obviously I love Lovers Walk and Spike's brief blast into town throws everyone else's love lives up in the air in his wake, ha. And I love that Spike is as blind in love as he is accusing Buffy and Angel of being. He might be willing to admit he is a slave to it, but he refuses to see Dru and her treatment of him for what it is. So despite complaining about her indiscretion repeatedly and Angel winding him up and pointing out she is fickle (presumably alluding to his time unsouled with her too), Spike decides to go and remind her what she loved about him. But this doesn't bear any resemblance to who he was when she saw him we come to learn, it is still about him trying to make himself what she wants, bringing her gifts, beautiful dresses with beautiful girls etc etc. He's trying to fit expectations and that isn't about being accepted as he is.

    I heartily disliked the Willow/Xander storyline and am more than glad it has come to its end. I really feel for Cordelia too, she's genuinely heart broken.

    I don't think Willow was faking the joy at the Pez witch flow. What made you think she was?

    I think peaches is deliberately a mocking term of endearment that is somewhat belittling/derogatory, like calling him sweetie, and also there is the possible meaning of peach as a fruit that is often associated with visually looking like an 'ass', so another slight/insult layered in. Aaaand, peach fuzz is often a way to refer to the immature facial hair guys get when going through puberty, so again, a way to try and belittle him as 'acting like a man'. Can't think of anything else.
    Last edited by Stoney; 19-04-18 at 10:54 PM.

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    The Wish

    I almost never criticize anything Buffy says or does. I do sometimes criticize, what she wears, though ;-)

    But why the heck does Buffy have to ask Willow, what Amy said about how Cordy is doing? Hasn`t Buffy been to visit her? And why does nobody put Xander right about his telephone calls? 60 or 70 calls? That is some serious stalking.

    I feel so sorry for Cordy. She is so insecure, when she walks into the school. And Harmony is so mean. She deserves all the mistreatment, she will get from Spike later on.

    I love Oz. But he is to good to be true. He doesn`t fit in the drama, that is the Buffyverse. Therefore, he will have to go.

    It is weird to see Xander`s ex-love and his future-love talking together :-)

    Buffy is feeling "weird" about teaming up with Xander and Willow against Cordelia? She should feel outright evil. This is one of her lowest points in the whole series. And why are Xander and Willow suddenly back to being good-old-pals? Just a week ago, they needed a delusting spell, to keep their hands off each other.

    I love NB as a vampire. Vamp!Xander is as evil, as evil goes. But I don `t buy Vamp!Willow at all. AH is just too sweet to be an evil vampire.

    I love the Wishverse`s cool and hardened Buffy. But why does she - again - not sense, that Angel is a vampire?

    There is one thing I don`t understand. Anya gave Cordy her pendant. Giles took it from Cordy. But when he summoned Anya in the Wishverse, Anya was wearing her pendant.

    flow
    Last edited by flow; 27-04-18 at 09:44 PM.
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    But why the heck does Buffy have to ask Willow, what Amy said about how Cordy is doing? Hasn`t Buffy been to visit her?
    I don't think Buffy would go visit Cordy in the hospital. They aren't friends particularly, and she's very much on Willow and Xander's side. I think she'd expect Cordy to refuse to see her, as she refused to see Xander. It does seem quite cold though.

    And Harmony is so mean. She deserves all the mistreatment, she will get from Spike later on.
    She definitely does

    I love Oz. But he is to good to be true. He doesn`t fit in the drama, that is the Buffyverse. Therefore, he will have to go.
    Agree so much. Everyone loves Oz, and he's a cool guy, but he's a blank slate. The audience can project anything onto him, because most of the time he's so quiet we don't really know how he feels about anything. I've always thought he's a stoner, and they are pretty dull.

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    The Wish

    I don't think Buffy is being harsh towards Cordelia, or teaming up against her. We know they weren't letting people see her at first and it could well be after Xander's first visit that she says she doesn't want to see other visitors to the staff there. Willow and Xander are Buffy's closest friends and I think she is just behaving as if that is true and as if she appreciates that Cordelia knows it too. I think Buffy could have fairly assumed that she'd want some space/time away from them all at first and she does try to speak to her outside The Bronze in a supportive way. As for Xander and Willow's change in tone with each other, I think the reveal and being caught out just brought them down to earth with a bump. The consequences of the cheating hurt and the 'excitement' of being together in secret has been lifted. I think it is just supposed to be a natural delusting big old splash of cold water that worked like nothing else coulda!

    I really feel for Cordelia too. Harmony is revelling in her new 'top dog' role in her group and can't resist getting in a mean jibe. It's no wonder she is one of the few vampires that seems to change very little from her human character when she was already such a nasty, cruel person.

    And Oz, I love Oz. I think that he is just a quieter person who thinks deeply on things and we see in how he responds to being a werewolf and closes off about what is happening with Veruca that sometimes that can be a really negative thing. Deeply internalising everything and not approaching things directly sometimes means the bad brews rather than more reasoned thoughts/logic. He works really well for me as just a very different character and has never struck me as blank, just a thinker.

    I was wondering about the pendant too when watching this time flow. My headcanon is that the pendant that Anya puts on Cordelia isn't her real one, or is a glamour/illusion or some such that she is just using to connect with her and befriend her. So when Giles calls her she is wearing the real amulet and that is why he sees that one glow and realises hers is more than a necklace. But it is an inconsistency really, I'm just trying to explain it away.

    I like that the episode shows again that everything isn't set in stone when it comes to prophecies. The Master escaped without Buffy even coming to Sunnydale. But what I love the most is that we see the consistency in the characters, even when they have followed very different paths. Wishverse Buffy is hard and distant. It makes me wonder what she has been through to come out so altered. But she is still determined, resourceful and follows her gut rather than cowering to authority figures.

    I think The Wish is one of the strongest episodes of the series. It hits me in the feels and that final scene really does choke me up. It's so well directed and the slow-mo/music makes it's impact incredible even though you know that it is all going to be put right. Seeing the group killed off one be one like that, and after Cordelia's murder too, I'm on the edge waiting for Giles to smash the damn pendant!!


    Amends

    I have to say again how much I feel for Faith. She has been through a whole heap of trauma that we know of and likely plenty that we don't have detailed and she is still stringing up fairy lights. That she manages to expose her vulnerability a bit by backing down and going around to Buffy's is great and you've got to love Joyce for realising the invitation was something that should be done. My heart breaks for Faith just that little bit more when she offers her 'crappy' gifts, so in need of a connection to people and not this hard shell all over yet. Her ready willingness to stay and protect Joyce without questioning Buffy's request I think just underlines the need to belong that she is desperate for but fears she doesn't have/deserve with such good people.

    This is a good acting ep for DB and he is pretty ropey in BtVS compared to AtS (or my memory of his earlier AtS episodes is already fading perhaps ). The scene with Giles/Jenny/Angel is so brilliantly done by the three of them. How both Angel and Giles struggle to be around each other, clearly neither are ready for this meeting, but both try to work past it for the current need/fear trumping personal wishes is good characterisation I think.

    This is actually a tremendous character episode for Angel. We get down to some deeper character issues that drive him and his responses to being unsouled/souled. That continuity of character that exists despite the more dramatic swings in behaviour are totally logical when you consider his upbringing and his human character/behaviour. His statement that it is the man that is the weakness is exactly why his souled characterisation is so much quieter and prone to brooding compared to his conscience free version. It saddens me that such a large portion of the fandom reduce the complexity of the character by failing to understand how the same person can behave so varied in their responses to themselves. So we get some real grit and depth to what his biggest struggle is and then, for me, it's undermined by silly magic snow.

    Buffy and Angel are really communicating and getting to the heart of the character and then the whole issue is shoved aside to marvel at snow that despite falling in little wisps is instantly deep and settled in a very unrealistic lumpy pattern. I don't have an issue with his suicide attempt being thwarted by other powers. Just as his return is being considered to be at the hands of The First Evil, for its own purposes, Angel's path is often littered with being pushed/pulled by others (including the gypsy curse) and how he responds to those treatments. But the 'fluffyness' of the magic snow, the magical Christmas miracle, just takes all the fire and edge away from the scene. That aside though, I think I enjoyed the episode on this rewatch more than I have before.
    Last edited by Stoney; 28-04-18 at 03:53 AM.

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    Stoney:
    I was wondering about the pendant too when watching this time flow. My headcanon is that the pendant that Anya puts on Cordelia isn't her real one, or is a glamour/illusion or some such that she is just using to connect with her and befriend her. So when Giles calls her she is wearing the real amulet and that is why he sees that one glow and realises hers is more than a necklace. But it is an inconsistency really, I'm just trying to explain it away.
    I am going to post it in the plot hole thread. Maybe someone else has an additional explanation ;-)

    flow
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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    I am going to post it in the plot hole thread. Maybe someone else has an additional explanation ;-)
    Cool, we'll see if anyone else has another explanation that works better.

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    Amends

    I am going to cut it very short. I don`t like the episode at all. One reason for my dislike is the snow. That isn`t snow guys. It is the plastic stuff, you spray on plastic chrístmas trees. Ewww...

    Another point off for this episode is, that for once SMG`s acting falls short. She comes across like a child that didn`t get what was on her Christmas wishlist, while she is yelling at Angel.

    And what really kills this episode finally off for me, is, Angel and Buffy standing under a pitch dark black night sky with Buffy screaming "There is only a few minutes left!"

    ..until what exactly?

    I am not even asking, why the First Evil can touch Angel and why it emphasizes not once but twice, that Angel will be dead by sunrise. Just to make sure, that Buffy really got the message and runs after him.

    Pro: We see Jenny Calendar again and DB`s acting is really saving the day. Or the epiosde.

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    I really have been neglecting my re-watch of season3 again and I am trying (late at night) to catch up a little bit with

    Gingerbread

    I absolutely love, how devastated joyce is about the deaths of those two kids and it is very diametrical to Giles´s rather factual approach "this is just a crime, we don`t need to get involved."

    And Buffy is right in between both of them, asking herself, if she can make an exception to the "I don`t kill humans"-rule.

    So, how come, Sheila doesn`t know Buffy`s name or Willow`s haircut but does know Joyce?

    I can`t help feeling, that Joyce looks at Giles as if she is hoping for some small sign of affection from his side. And he is as cold as a cucumber...

    Isn`t the Mayor really convincing as a caring and grieving member and head of the Sunnydale Community?

    Lol...I love Giles talking in german. He sounds cool...

    The demon at the end was a bit over the top and the way Buffy staked him was just silly.

    But I liked the premise of this epiosde. That humans can turn into monsters, especially when they are many. I liked the reference to the burning of books as well.

    A great episode with minor flaws.

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    It is really difficult for me to watch

    Helpless

    I have to admit, I actually like how DB asks Buffy "You are talking about your father, aren`t you?" He really can deliver funny lines. He doesn`t get enough credit for that. But that is the only funny line in this whole Episode.

    And watching Giles, lecturing Buffy about amethysts and at the same time already drugging her...then sending her on patrol, where she nearly gets herself killed by a vampire...

    ...that`s ... urgh....

    And now she is practically begging him, to go with her to the ice show and he pretends not to hear or understand her, babbles again about crystals and gives her another shot of drugs. Joyce would have gone with her. She could have asked Angel. Or Willow, or Xander. But of all the people, she asked Giles. I can`t stand the cold look on his face, when he pulls out the syringe....

    Quentin Travers looks a lot like an uncle of mine, which freaks me out a little. It`s my favorite uncle...

    Really great pick for a birthday present, Angel. Buffy is over the top with Sonnets from the Portuguese.

    "Who are you?" Oh, yes, that is a valid question. There is another one, Buffy didn`t ask. How many Slayers have ever passed this test? How many got killed, during the test?

    What I do not understand, is, why some people complain, that Buffy forgave Spike for the AR but never seem to bother, that she forgave Giles for drugging her in order to get her killed. Where is the difference ?

    This is one of the more horrific episodes of the entire series and Kralik is one of the most horrible monsters, we see.

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    S3 is pretty solid throughout and I love Gingerbread and Helpless. They are both cracking episodes in the season with lots of layering and issues for multiple characters, particularly when considering both corruption of authority and identity issues (both self perception and the perception of others, as are often at play).

    Both parental figures are considered between the two and both over protectiveness and the barriers between generations as well as rejection and distancing are explored. The challenges of changing power balances between parent and child are one of the most difficult aspects of growing up I think. From the parent's point of view you should allow the reach for independence whilst also still looking for the times you should guide and protect. The child has to find their own interests and feel both part of a social group as well as able to emerge as an individual. To be seen but not held back. It's a balancing nightmare on both sides. And around this break out of individuality and independence there is also consideration to people in positions of higher authority. Those with wider power gained from their positions and how they define their priorities and justify their choices.

    I'm a little ahead of you now, Earshot was the last episode we watched.

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    Helpless is my favourite episode of Season 3. I love how it changes everything we know and think of Giles and Buffy. Suddenly we see Giles doing something so devious and amoral, and have to question how we've viewed him up to this point. He regrets his actions and questions Travers over it, but he has gone along with it. This is not the good father. But even more important is that Buffy beats Kralik, even though she doesn't have her Slayer powers. I love this! Being the Slayer isn't just about tapping into innate demon powers, it's about Buffy the person. She is clever and strong and tenacious, even without access to her Slayer side. I love what that says about her

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