Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: The show from Buffy’s POV

  1. #1
    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The basement
    Posts
    2,894
    Thanks
    1,303
    Thanked 1,870 Times in 800 Posts

    Default The show from Buffy’s POV

    Listening to Slayerfest98, I was interested in some of the quotes they said while reviewing The Initiative.

    “It’s interesting that we’re seeing everybody around Buffy, deal with how they feel about Buffy, and how Xander and Giles feel useless and cast aside because their lives revolve around her. The show, once Buffy is in the scene, they forget sometimes to have the other characters’ interactions. Willow and Xander had history before meeting Buffy, but Buffy is still the center of their group. When Buffy is going through depression in college, when she’s off of her game, the rest of them just float around her and it feels off.

    I remember in S3 in The Zeppo when Xander and Oz had a scene together and I wish we had gotten more of that. As friends outside of Buffy interacting. It was enjoyable watching these characters together doing shit without Buffy. It happens so rarely.

    A show like this (BtVS) and Sex in the City are a full cast show, but they both revolve around Carrie and Buffy.”


    What they’re saying is interesting because the scene that comes to mind is Buffy and Xander in Help confronting Cassie’s alcoholic father. Xander should have had a bigger role in the scene considering that a drunk father is something he and Cassie have in common, except Xander’s character wasn’t used at all in that scene, it was just Buffy doing the talking. I mean, if Xander wasn’t in the scene, nothing would have changed. I’ve always thought it was a wasted opportunity, but it does prove what they were talking about in the potcast that when Buffy is in the scene, the writers forget about the other characters.

    That got me thinking about the show being told completely from Buffy’s POV. I’ve always believed that BtVS is a show seen through Buffy’s eyes (except for The Zeppo which is Xander’s POV), and that Buffy’s POV isn’t the most reliable one.

    Buffy, even when she does something wrong, always comes off sympathetic. We know why she did this. We understand. The music, the tone of the show, all side with Buffy.

    On the other hand, other characters’ mistakes tend to come off less sympathetic perhaps because Buffy doesn’t really understand why they’re doing this. And maybe, and I’m talking about Empty Places and Dead Man’s Party here, the characters are shown as extra mean because Buffy feels that way.

    It’s also notable that we know very little about Xander and Willow’s parents perhaps because Buffy doesn’t interact with them. What we know about the show is what Buffy knows.

    Xander’s struggles in the real world in S4 is seen as funny perhaps because Buffy sees it that way, but comes S6 and it’s Buffy’s turn to struggle in the real world and is seen as dire and horrible because it’s happening to Buffy. Same goes for Joyce’s struggles with being divorced, single parenthood and trying to understand her troublesome child who keeps so much from her. It’s not something Buffy cares about, so Joyce kinda appears like the bad guy, until Buffy gets to experience it with Dawn in S6 and suddenly the role of a single parent is sympathetic while Dawn is the troublesome child who doesn’t understand the sacrifices of her legal guardian.

    Buffy and Angel breaking up is the end of the world, and everybody is sympathetic to Buffy’s depression over it. But Willow being depressed about Oz leaving is annoying and boring. Cordelia insulting Buffy is hurtful and sad, Cordelia insulting Xander is funny.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is: the mood of the show depends on Buffy’s mood. When shit is happening to Buffy we get every little detail and the tone is very dire, but when it’s happening to someone else, we get little snips of what its happening with them and not the whole picture.

    So, could it possible that the show is told through Buffy’s “unreliable” narration? Same as The Zeppo was with Xander? And Real Me was with Dawn? I’d be very interested to see the show being told from Joyce’s POV, especially S1 and S2. Maybe from Giles POV where Buffy and friends speak gibberish words the audience don’t understand either because that’s how Giles feels about teen slang.
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Sosa lola For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (03-02-18)

  3. #2
    Slayer
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,082
    Thanks
    2,593
    Thanked 1,353 Times in 671 Posts

    Default

    Err short answer, no I don't think this series worked that way. I think we always see what's really happening to the characters and that any apparent bias/lack of info is just the writers doing their usual thing.

  4. #3
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,470
    Thanks
    4,656
    Thanked 4,333 Times in 2,159 Posts

    Default

    I partially agree, because this is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the show is about Buffy, she is the central character, so it makes sense that we would see things mainly from her point of view. I would also agree that a lot of things we see are due to Buffy being an unreliable narrator.

    But we also do see other perspectives, such as Riley talking to Xander about Buffy not loving him. Buffy could never have known that, she wouldn't have believed a conversation like that were possible, because she believed they were a happy and loving couple.

    There are many examples of things happening that Buffy would feel very differently about if we were presented them solely through her eyes. Jenny Calendar, I think, is presented as a decent person backed into a corner by her family and history, yet Buffy hates her at points so if we were seeing Jenny solely through Buffy's eyes, I think during the Angelus debacle she would have been portrayed far more negatively.

    But of course all this also depends on the audience an how they perceive characters and storylines, so it's quite hard to quantify.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    Rebcake (11-08-18),Silver1 (03-02-18)

  6. #4
    Slayer TimeTravellingBunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    5,611
    Thanks
    4,868
    Thanked 4,126 Times in 1,904 Posts

    Default

    Not to mention everything going on with the Master and his lair in season 1. Not to mention everything with Spike, Drusilla and Angelus in S2. Including Angel losing his soul before Buffy learns about it, or deciding to wake Acathla before she learns about it. Or Faith going to join Mayor's service before Buffy learns about it. Or everything taking place between the villains, each season. Or Angel's flashbacks in Becoming. Or the beginning of S6 before Buffy is resurrected. Or the entirety of The Zeppo. Or almost all of The Wish. Or any scenes where Buffy isn't present. And so on.

    The show has never been just from Buffy's POV. We always got plenty of POVs, particularly Willow's, Xander's and in later seasons Riley's and Spike's. Or even Andrew's, in Storyteller.

    That's also why I never found Normal Again to be all that ambiguous, as some people make it out to be.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TimeTravellingBunny For This Useful Post:

    Stoney (03-02-18),TriBel (14-08-18)

  8. #5
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    6,979
    Thanks
    7,942
    Thanked 9,760 Times in 4,058 Posts

    Default

    The show isn't written from Buffy's pov for all the reasons TTB says. We'd never see any scenes she wasn't in if it were true, we'd never get any flashbacks for other characters etc etc. All characters can definitely be unreliable narrators and at times when they are directly expressing their opinions we can often see the nuance and aspects of self delusion etc that give us character depth, but BtVS itself isn't being narrated by Buffy and so being affected by her take on everything. Buffy is the focus for the writing for sure and often when we're following other characters/arcs closely it is in part because it contrasts or mirrors Buffy's direction for that ep/season and so aids understanding of her story, but it isn't because it is from her point of view.

    Interesting point about Xander not talking to Cassie. I wonder how well Xander has processed his feelings about his parents though, perhaps he doesn't know what to say to her because he knows better than most what it is like.
    Last edited by Stoney; 04-02-18 at 07:27 AM.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    TimeTravellingBunny (04-02-18)

  10. #6
    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The basement
    Posts
    2,894
    Thanks
    1,303
    Thanked 1,870 Times in 800 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    But we also do see other perspectives, such as Riley talking to Xander about Buffy not loving him. Buffy could never have known that, she wouldn't have believed a conversation like that were possible, because she believed they were a happy and loving couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    Not to mention everything going on with the Master and his lair in season 1. Not to mention everything with Spike, Drusilla and Angelus in S2. Including Angel losing his soul before Buffy learns about it, or deciding to wake Acathla before she learns about it. Or Faith going to join Mayor's service before Buffy learns about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    We'd never see any scenes she wasn't in if it were true, we'd never get any flashbacks for other characters etc etc.
    It's not Buffy's POV in the literal sense. Because even The Zeppo that's supposed to be from Xander's POV shows scenes where Xander isn't there.

    What I mean is what Rahirah says in Tumblr "that the narrative is generally set up to validate Buffy’s feelings and reactions." A lot of the show is centered on Buffy, it's her universe and it's her story, and that's why we don't get other characters' prospectives most of the time and when a character is opposed to Buffy, they're usually painted as the bad guy.
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

  11. #7
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,470
    Thanks
    4,656
    Thanked 4,333 Times in 2,159 Posts

    Default

    What I mean is what Rahirah says in Tumblr "that the narrative is generally set up to validate Buffy’s feelings and reactions." A lot of the show is centered on Buffy, it's her universe and it's her story, and that's why we don't get other characters' prospectives most of the time and when a character is opposed to Buffy, they're usually painted as the bad guy
    The one scene that springs to mind is when they discover Angel is back and Giles gives his speech about 'he tortured me for hours . . . you have not respect for me or the job I do' (sorry, probably a total misquote but I'm sure you know what scene I mean). The audience is asked to choose, and not automatically be on Buffy's side. I would also say killing Anya fell in that middle-ground and given time I think I could come up with more.

    For a lot of the audience, Buffy sticking with Spike and not staking him, was unforgivable, and turned a lot of them against her, so it didn't matter what the writers wanted, once the art is out there, the audience make their own minds up.

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    TimeTravellingBunny (04-02-18),TriBel (04-02-18)

  13. #8
    Well Spiked Stoney's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    6,979
    Thanks
    7,942
    Thanked 9,760 Times in 4,058 Posts

    Default

    I think the narrative is set up to understand Buffy's feelings and reactions, that doesn't necessarily mean that you would personally agree with her or always feel that she is right or shouldn't have gone about things differently. I can sympathise with Buffy but still think she makes questionable decisions. Some things Buffy does when Angel turns on them in S2 aren't the best choices but we feel for her. Likewise with Faith, Buffy doesn't always make good choices there, but we understand where she is coming from. The times when someone questions Buffy's choices I think it can be seen as being harsh/hard, because we are feeling for her, but that's true for the others too. Because we understand where they are coming from as well and their stories I just wouldn't agree that disagreeing with Buffy labels you as a 'bad guy'. I think the characters and their relationships are presented as being more complex than that.

    We're following their stories in a way that is geared towards seeing them all progress/grow as they face mistakes, deal with insecurities, learn and move on. Sometimes they fall to the same mistakes and it takes time for aspects of their character to develop, but general choices aren't always cast in simply a positive light for any of them. The stories are geared to them reaching forward and coming through.

    I think I understand where the person is coming from, I just don't think it is how the series works personally and I don't think we are positioned to 'see' it from Buffy's perspective more than any of the others, we are just seeing this group of characters and what they go through, getting to know them all really well. Sure Buffy is the focus and that means she gets more stories looking at her progress/development, plus she is a hero so generally we are expecting her to come through and win. Her gut instincts often prove to be right and her choices are often fundamental in the plot and are winning ones. But I'd say that is just protag privilege rather than it being how the stories validate her point of view whilst painting the others badly, because the other group members are put in those moments too, just not as often. CWDP somewhat openly acknowledges the difference and whilst I think Buffy gets protag privilege and we are set up to understand her situation/perspective, I don't think we are left feeling wrong for questioning it too. Part of the appeal of her (and Angel) as heroes is seeing that they are flawed but can pull through. And we still get to understand the complexity of all the characters and their perspectives as well, to see where they are coming from in questioning Buffy (and likely often agree with them). After all they are all being presented as positive/good people that get stronger overall as we watch them grow.
    Last edited by Stoney; 04-02-18 at 02:28 PM.

  14. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Stoney For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (04-02-18),Rebcake (14-08-18),TimeTravellingBunny (04-02-18),TriBel (04-02-18)

  15. #9
    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The basement
    Posts
    2,894
    Thanks
    1,303
    Thanked 1,870 Times in 800 Posts

    Default

    I finally found someone who agrees with me on reddit!

    "Not terribly exciting, but my head-canon is that the show relies on 'unreliable narrator' techniques in some cases so that events reflect what Buffy sees/feels rather than objective reality. It's inconsistent at best so it's tough to argue coherently, but does make some things make more sense.

    Some examples:

    Joyce in early seasons is pretty shallow and terrible and is largely just a 'parental conflict'. this actually reflects Buffy's immaturity and her failure to see Joyce as a complete person; Joyce gets much more fully developed as Buffy gets older.

    In cases where there is conflict among the scoobies (e.g. Dead Man's Party, Revelations) it reflects Buffy struggling with her guilt of letting her friends down (and/or being at war with herself as she sorts things out, assuming you buy the metaphorical role of the scooby gang). The Season 7 dust-up is a bit harder to fit in here, but can be seen in similar light with a bit of work." - dwkdnvr
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Sosa lola For This Useful Post:

    Klaus Kartoffel (10-08-18)

  17. #10
    Bronze Party-Goer Rebcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    San Francisco, for now
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    267
    Thanked 515 Times in 196 Posts

    Default

    I've been pondering this. As you may know, I adore the device of the unreliable narrator. But I only see it occasionally in BtVS. I tend to ascribe it more to Angel the Series than Buffy the Series, but deep down I think that's because I'm not terribly fond of Angel's character and see a fair amount of what happens on his show as self-aggrandizement. Which is probably not fair.

    I agree with Stoney that there is a certain amount of protagonist privilege going on. There are some times that BtVS can be seen as slanted toward Buffy's POV, but many, many others where it simply cannot — such as the scenes listed above by others in which Buffy does not appear. I'd add the shocking scene where Riley stakes Spike, which never blips Buffy's radar. It seems to me that saying the whole show is just from Buffy's POV is a way to mitigate the bad actions of the supporting characters, by implying that it's just Buffy's exaggerated self-pity that shows them unsympathetically. I can understand wanting to see the actions of favorite characters as "not as bad as they appear" (I'm a Spike fan, after all), and anybody is free to interpret the show through whatever lens suits them. I just don't think you'll find many takers on the interpretation that we're just seeing the whole experience from Buffy's POV. She's the title character and most viewers find her sympathetic, true. Even her friends find her sympathetic, usually. But when they argue with her, go behind her back, kick her out of school or her house, she's not exaggerating those things. They happened. We feel sympathy for her situation in those cases, but we also see what's happening to the other people much of the time. We see Joyce struggling with Buffy's absence, we see Faith riding away in a box car, we see Dawn struggling with the loss of Buffy. The other characters aren't just window dressing for Buffy's story. That's part of what makes the story great. But nobody is without flaw, and making characters flaws about Buffy's perception isn't doing justice to the narrative, IMO.
    Weird love is better than no love — Buffy Summers

  18. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Rebcake For This Useful Post:

    flow (14-08-18),Klaus Kartoffel (14-08-18),Priceless (14-08-18),Skippcomet (14-08-18),Stoney (14-08-18),vampmogs (14-08-18)

  19. #11
    Hellmouth Tourist
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 67 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebcake View Post
    I've been pondering this. As you may know, I adore the device of the unreliable narrator. But I only see it occasionally in BtVS. I tend to ascribe it more to Angel the Series than Buffy the Series, but deep down I think that's because I'm not terribly fond of Angel's character and see a fair amount of what happens on his show as self-aggrandizement. Which is probably not fair.



    I agree with Stoney that there is a certain amount of protagonist privilege going on. There are some times that BtVS can be seen as slanted toward Buffy's POV, but many, many others where it simply cannot — such as the scenes listed above by others in which Buffy does not appear. I'd add the shocking scene where Riley stakes Spike, which never blips Buffy's radar. It seems to me that saying the whole show is just from Buffy's POV is a way to mitigate the bad actions of the supporting characters, by implying that it's just Buffy's exaggerated self-pity that shows them unsympathetically. I can understand wanting to see the actions of favorite characters as "not as bad as they appear" (I'm a Spike fan, after all), and anybody is free to interpret the show through whatever lens suits them. I just don't think you'll find many takers on the interpretation that we're just seeing the whole experience from Buffy's POV. She's the title character and most viewers find her sympathetic, true. Even her friends find her sympathetic, usually. But when they argue with her, go behind her back, kick her out of school or her house, she's not exaggerating those things. They happened. We feel sympathy for her situation in those cases, but we also see what's happening to the other people much of the time. We see Joyce struggling with Buffy's absence, we see Faith riding away in a box car, we see Dawn struggling with the loss of Buffy. The other characters aren't just window dressing for Buffy's story. That's part of what makes the story great. But nobody is without flaw, and making characters flaws about Buffy's perception isn't doing justice to the narrative, IMO.
    I concede I never looked up the actual definition of "unreliable narrator", lol (not even NOW ). However, I don't understand the device to be a narrative tool that always discredits the target POV by principle. It's not about discrediting or delegitimizing to begin with; but about putting things in relation and perspective. For me, "unreliable narrator" simply means that I should be aware that POVs are subjective and not automatically self-legitimizing over other POVs. While it must be applied to all characters, Buffy is still the dominant POV, therefore naturally the main target.

    However, I agree the show isn't methodically slanted towards Buffy's POV -- typical characters where it actually is, are Tara from Family on, Cordelia in AtS S03, Spike in S07 or Angel post his beige arc in AtS S02 -- at least not in the WB seasons (and the S08 comics). It happens here and there. Sometimes it slightly rubs me the wrong way (letting Angel drink her in Graduation Day and it's just all about insular, sex-ay Bangelness), sometimes I don't get the fuss other fans make about it (Dead Man's Party because, even though Xander and Willow's POVs are comparatively diminished, standing someone up out of fear or being unreasonably hot-tempered is... normal teenage behaviour and nothing condemnable). To a degree (!), it is even fun to read against the text and look at things from other perspectives even or especially if they're underrepresented, presented uncharitably or preseneted antagonistically.
    Last edited by Klaus Kartoffel; 14-08-18 at 11:51 AM.

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Klaus Kartoffel For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (14-08-18)

  21. #12
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,470
    Thanks
    4,656
    Thanked 4,333 Times in 2,159 Posts

    Default

    (Dead Man's Party because, even though Xander and Willow's POVs are comparatively diminished, standing someone up out of fear or being unreasonably hot-tempered is... normal teenage behaviour and nothing condemnable)
    I have to disagree with this. I think the feelings Willow and Xander have in Dead Man's Party are valid, though perhaps expressed in a needlessly aggressive manner. But worse than anything they say, Willow standing Buffy up is one of the worst bits of cruelty any of the core 4 show each other, at least in the first 5 seasons. It's incredibly passive/aggressive and just plain mean. If my best friend deliberately stood me up, left me sitting there all alone, when I already felt insecure and misunderstood . . . well all I can say is that Buffy forgives her far sooner than I would. For me, Willow standing up Buffy is worse than Xander's 'kick his ass' lie

  22. #13
    Hellmouth Tourist
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    20
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 67 Times in 23 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I have to disagree with this. I think the feelings Willow and Xander have in Dead Man's Party are valid, though perhaps expressed in a needlessly aggressive manner. But worse than anything they say, Willow standing Buffy up is one of the worst bits of cruelty any of the core 4 show each other, at least in the first 5 seasons. It's incredibly passive/aggressive and just plain mean. If my best friend deliberately stood me up, left me sitting there all alone, when I already felt insecure and misunderstood . . . well all I can say is that Buffy forgives her far sooner than I would. For me, Willow standing up Buffy is worse than Xander's 'kick his ass' lie
    Worse than threatening to kill everyone, not just Giles, who comes near Dawn, even though nothing warranted such a threat? That's my worse bit of social misconduct between the core four in the first five seasons and even there I'm more than willing to be sympathetic of Buffy's POV, or to consider her POV to begin with. There are many others (just between Buffy, Willow and Xander alone) I put before standing Buffy up in DMP. However, in most, if not all of them, I would consider the term "cruelty", to characterize the conduct, as utterly misguided and just hateful. Just let's leave it at that. I don't feel like talking Willow's POV, considering the polemic hostility towards her, and it's not the thread's topic anyway.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Klaus Kartoffel For This Useful Post:

    Priceless (14-08-18)

  24. #14
    Moderator Sosa lola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    The basement
    Posts
    2,894
    Thanks
    1,303
    Thanked 1,870 Times in 800 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebcake View Post
    I agree with Stoney that there is a certain amount of protagonist privilege going on. There are some times that BtVS can be seen as slanted toward Buffy's POV, but many, many others where it simply cannot — such as the scenes listed above by others in which Buffy does not appear.
    The Zeppo is known for being Xander's POV episode, but there are still scenes that happen that Xander knows nothing about. Perhaps 'protagonist privilege' is the right term to use. Buffy being the protagonist means she gets to have her issues and pain explored more than the other characters.

    I do love the idea of how Joyce appears differently in the high school years because of Buffy's immaturity and how she came to appreciate her mother more as she grows older and matures.
    Made by Trickyboxes
    Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Sosa lola For This Useful Post:

    Klaus Kartoffel (14-08-18)

  26. #15
    Bronze Party-Goer Rebcake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    San Francisco, for now
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    267
    Thanked 515 Times in 196 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    The Zeppo is known for being Xander's POV episode, but there are still scenes that happen that Xander knows nothing about. Perhaps 'protagonist privilege' is the right term to use. Buffy being the protagonist means she gets to have her issues and pain explored more than the other characters.

    I do love the idea of how Joyce appears differently in the high school years because of Buffy's immaturity and how she came to appreciate her mother more as she grows older and matures.
    I agree that Joyce comes to be seen differently as time marches on, although it's true of all the characters. For me, the big change happens with Giles. He starts out as the bossy, stuffy guy giving orders and dispensing the unassailable knowledge, but as we find out more about him he becomes more human and more flawed and interesting. And far, far from unassailable.

    The show is about growing up and becoming an adult, and part of that is recognizing that the adults we looked up to or saw as obstacles are just people too, struggling in the same way that we (the protagonists of our own stories, surely) do. It happens slowly, and the show is structured to reveal this slowly, over years, not episodes. In that way, it is from Buffy's POV, as the show gets richer as she gets older and finds more meaning in things.
    Weird love is better than no love — Buffy Summers

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rebcake For This Useful Post:

    Stoney (15-08-18),TriBel (14-08-18)

  28. #16
    Slayer Priceless's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    2,470
    Thanks
    4,656
    Thanked 4,333 Times in 2,159 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus Kartoffel View Post
    Worse than threatening to kill everyone, not just Giles, who comes near Dawn, even though nothing warranted such a threat? That's my worse bit of social misconduct between the core four in the first five seasons and even there I'm more than willing to be sympathetic of Buffy's POV, or to consider her POV to begin with. There are many others (just between Buffy, Willow and Xander alone) I put before standing Buffy up in DMP. However, in most, if not all of them, I would consider the term "cruelty", to characterize the conduct, as utterly misguided and just hateful. Just let's leave it at that. I don't feel like talking Willow's POV, considering the polemic hostility towards her, and it's not the thread's topic anyway.
    I did say that I thought it was the worst thing any of the core four had done to each other pre-Season 5, but threatening to kill anyone who came near Dawn was said in a battle situation, where Buffy is protecting her sister. It's a very different situation. I take on board that you don't want to discuss why Willow did what she did, but I would like to hear your thoughts, as it's something I've never really understood.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Priceless For This Useful Post:

    TriBel (15-08-18)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •