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Thread: The Great Season 8 Re-read

  1. #41
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    No, Joss was the one who pretty much made these declarations right up front to the paper. Basically, Buffy slept with Satsu so that he could say she had, as far as I could tell. It was possibly his most cynical writing choice ever, precisely because he was also at pains to say this didn't represent any sort of shift in Buffy's basic, default orientation.

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  3. #42
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    Agree with Sosa Lola, Xander should have gone for it just to solve the problem, not dithered (the kiss). In hindsight, the emergency nature of this plot made the curse sort of absurd, because the correct answer if this were actually going on is to just order everybody to line up and start kissing because, with respect to Sweet Brown, "ain't nobody got time for that". It would have been more believable that anyone would have spent a significant amount of time wringing their hands about whether or not to kiss her had the curse not coincided with the rest of the threat, like just sleeping beauty with no other immediate danger.
    Totally see what you are saying here, but I simply can not get behind the idea of forcing young girls into kissing someone, not for a spell, not for any reason, not even in a comic, not even Buffy. And just because Amy says that's the cure to the spell, she's evil and could be lying.

    There was something in the news recently about stopping people telling young children, especially girls, to kiss people as a hello or a thank you, because it makes girls think they have to kiss, even if it makes then uncomfortable, and then the uncomfortable becomes the norm for them and leaves them open to abuse. I think forcing the slayers to kiss Buffy is a similar thing - no one should be forced or expected to kiss anyone and it certainly shouldn't become the expected thing

    - - - Updated - - -

    I didn't get much more than a sisterly vibe with Faith and Genevieve even though there is much of the Male Gaze in the arc (he said approvingly),
    I am a straight woman and maybe I'm an old fashioned prude, but I have never shared a bath with another woman I think all the evidence points to Faith at least being bi-curious (if that's still even a thing nowadays?) I would also say that Genevieve is using her sexuality to manipulate Faith, as she can tell how lonely Faith is. I think loneliness is also one of the reasons Buffy sleeps with Satsu
    Never much cared for picket fences anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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  5. #43
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    Issue 3: The Long Way Home

    Buffy: "My love" Buffy apparently thought it was either Angel or Spike until Ethan stepped out of the shadows and she felt like throwing up in her mouth. She hated that Ethan was using Spike's expression, which is an expression most English men use. Except Giles. According to Buffy. Has she ever heard him say "love" or "Pet"?

    Angel and Spike are always on Buffy's mind. She's chained to them in a way she's not with others. "The most important men in your lives are lurks." The paradise that Buffy sees in her dream looks like Twilight with her leaning close toward Angel because he's the one who's gonna take her there. And Spike got Buffy's back, like always. The trains can be Buffy and Angel meeting in the middle and crashing, causing destruction. Spike is in her heart and she desires him, but Angel is true love. Her tragic romance with Angel seemed ideal in her eyes. The circumstances kept them apart and if they ever had it their way, they'd be in heaven. With Spike, it was them hurting each other as well as helping each other and then perusing their relationship as friends. It didn't have the flavor her relationship with Angel had when she was still a young teenager. "I would have given up everything I had to be with— I loved him more than I will ever love anything in this life." And she will give up everything she has to be with him in #33. Angel has always been the endgame to Buffy. And that will change by the end of the season.

    Buffy, embarrassed by her fantasy, defends herself by saying it was a slow year. She thinks about sex, misses it, dreams about it, and sex will bring pain to the people around her. Sex with Satsu brings both Satsu and Willow pain. Sex with Angel brings pain and damage to earth.

    Buffy falls down through cubes of her previous memories:

    1- Buffy in a very short skirt walking down the school's hall with Xander and Willow, which reminds me of Jeanty's cover of #37 that shows High School Buffy and dead Xander and Willow.

    2- There's one of Glory or Harmony looking at a mirror, I think it's Harmony seeing that we'll be seeing her later.

    3- Buffy's "Buffy + Angel forever" scrabble, another confirmation that she feels that Angel is the one.

    4- Her friends and herself standing together after defeating the First looking forward for a future they'll share together finding slayers and training them, they won't be standing together by the end of the season and they won't be looking forward to a future shared together.

    5- The Master, a foreshadow to his appearance later.

    6- Caleb, a foreshadow to him appearing in her dream in the future.

    7- Spike hidden behind a cube that shows Buffy and Angel about to kiss, can be seen as a foreshadow his appearance after Buffy and Angel's spacesex. That guy really looks like Spike, even though Jeanty said he forgot him.

    8- Buffy and Riley together foreshadows them working together to spy on Twilight.

    9- Joyce dead on the couch reflects how much Buffy misses her and how lost she is without her in her life.

    10- Then you have Buffy and Giles reading the Vampyer book which foreshadows Giles giving the book to Buffy after his death.

    After she wakes up , Buffy insists on knowing where Willow had been and what was going on with her. But Willow is being avoidy. I love Buffy's courage jumping to the portal to save Willow.



    Xander: He shows genuine pride in Willow's powers and strength, telling his squad how incredible she is. That's probably the only Xander/Willow bit we'll get as well as Willow's happiness at Xander's arrival in The Wolves at the Gate.

    Willow's speech about someone being in love with Buffy in the room, probably not realizing it, who should step up and kiss her makes Xander ashamed of himself for not even trying. He doesn't think he's in love with her anymore. He'd moved on a long time ago, but perhaps a glimmer is still there and it can save Buffy. Willow's words about everybody closing their eyes gives him courage to do it, except Satsu steps up and does it, waking Buffy up. Xander looks shocked if a little disappointed for if he had done it, he'd know for sure how he really felt about Buffy.

    Xander and Andrew's phone call while mostly business shows companionship. Xander seems to have gained more respect and trust in Andrew, probably considering him a buddy. Later this season, Xander will hold an injured Andrew like a close friend.

    Xander digs Renee. And Renee digs him. Maybe that's another reason he was reluctant to kiss Buffy. If Renee knew that he was still in love with her, she wouldn't go out with him.

    Xander is an expert in speeches that lift other's spirits' up. Maybe Buffy should take notes.

    Xander's parents are still alive. And it appears he calls them from time to time. Even though they seem to taunt him about his slow year.
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    No Future For You - Part 4

    Faith is so conflicted about her relationship with the Mayor, and probably about every relationship in her life. The Mayor made her feel more loved and cared for then anyone else ever had. That's so sad.

    We see Buffy falling out with Giles because he won't tell her what's gong on with Faith. She's angry at him, but is then hurt when he refuses to tell her anything. If they could just talk to each other things would be so much better for them both.

    Killing Genevieve must have been devastating for Faith, but it has helped put her on another path, helping other slayers. She and Giles make a good team and I like that Giles calls them equals. I think that's a step forward for Giles too, he's no longer seeing himself as watching over a child, but as an equal to a woman.

    Anywhere But Here

    Daniel Craig . . . good choice Buffy But on the following page Xander actually looks hotter than Daniel! It's a sweet scene between him and Dawn, though on my first read I didn't ever pick up on any romance between the two, and I don't think this is very romantic either.

    I like that Buffy tries to broach the subject of Kennedy with Willow. Friends would talk about these things, and Willow hasn't told Buffy anything about where she's been or what she's been doing. Xander has definitely become Buffy's best friend this year.

    Oh of course, the mysterious benefactor duh! Buffy is bank robbing, Willow and Dawn are cheating. Luckily Xander is here to pick up some of the pieces. Dawn can open up to him when she couldn't to Willow or Buffy, so Xander has become the rock for both the Summers sisters.

    We get a foreshadowing of the seed being smashed and Buffy broken and betrayed. Buffy and Willow's relationship is obviously not great when Buffy accuses her of being the one to betray her, but this encourages Willow to open up about Kennedy. I don't know whether Willow loved Kennedy, or is using Tara as an excuse to break up with her, when she's already cheated with Aluwyn. Either way, it's not good.
    Never much cared for picket fences anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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  9. #45
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    Reading all these posts to supplement my "great season 8 re-read" has made experience that much more enjoyable. Thank you posters!
    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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  11. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Totally see what you are saying here, but I simply can not get behind the idea of forcing young girls into kissing someone, not for a spell, not for any reason, not even in a comic, not even Buffy. And just because Amy says that's the cure to the spell, she's evil and could be lying.

    There was something in the news recently about stopping people telling young children, especially girls, to kiss people as a hello or a thank you, because it makes girls think they have to kiss, even if it makes then uncomfortable, and then the uncomfortable becomes the norm for them and leaves them open to abuse. I think forcing the slayers to kiss Buffy is a similar thing - no one should be forced or expected to kiss anyone and it certainly shouldn't become the expected thing

    - - - Updated - - -



    I am a straight woman and maybe I'm an old fashioned prude, but I have never shared a bath with another woman I think all the evidence points to Faith at least being bi-curious (if that's still even a thing nowadays?) I would also say that Genevieve is using her sexuality to manipulate Faith, as she can tell how lonely Faith is. I think loneliness is also one of the reasons Buffy sleeps with Satsu
    The whole story with the kiss I just thought it was silly, to use the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale, I mean; I have the feeling that, for some reason, they wanted to make sure (to the readers) that Satsu was really in love with Buffy, and not just attracted to Buffy's power or something like that.

    I also saw more a sister vibe between Faith and Genevieve more than anything else (with the bathtub and all...). By the way, Genevieve was much like Faith; although royal and filthy rich, she had absenting parents, and had been constantly abused by her tutors. While Faith lived her hell on the streets, Genevieve lived hers inside golden doors - yes, I see the difference, but she ended up as lonely as Faith, and after getting the Slayer power went totally psycho. If she had had time and someone like Angel to help her, would she have turned good? Alfter killing by accident that Slayer, Genevieve didn't feel sorry at all; she felt too entitled to rule the world and maybe was already a lost case, she was way beyond the "want, have, take" approach.

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  13. #47
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    The whole story with the kiss I just thought it was silly, to use the Sleeping Beauty fairy tale, I mean; I have the feeling that, for some reason, they wanted to make sure (to the readers) that Satsu was really in love with Buffy, and not just attracted to Buffy's power or something like that.
    Yes I think you are right, though I'm not actually sure what it matters, especially because Buffy didn't love Satsu. I wonder if it was also to show that Xander didn't love her in that way anymore?

    I also saw more a sister vibe between Faith and Genevieve more than anything else (with the bathtub and all...). By the way, Genevieve was much like Faith; although royal and filthy rich, she had absenting parents, and had been constantly abused by her tutors. While Faith lived her hell on the streets, Genevieve lived hers inside golden doors - yes, I see the difference, but she ended up as lonely as Faith, and after getting the Slayer power went totally psycho. If she had had time and someone like Angel to help her, would she have turned good? Alfter killing by accident that Slayer, Genevieve didn't feel sorry at all; she felt too entitled to rule the world and maybe was already a lost case, she was way beyond the "want, have, take" approach.
    Yeah maybe I'm reading too much into it. I'm blaming Buffering the Podcast who are educating me about queerness, and I am sure they would say that two women sharing a bath is gay. They though the reading club Joyce and Pat were members of, was a beard for their passionate affair

    Genevieve and Faith are definitely very similar and that's why Faith doesn't kill her straight away, because she can see herself in her. It was Genevieve that put Faith on the path of wanting to help other young slayers.
    Never much cared for picket fences anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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  15. #48
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    For me the whole sharing a bath thing just came across as 'odd'. I mean I've not known/heard any women in in all my years that would just jump into a bath with a stranger unless they were just after a good shag.

    It just came across to me as more 'titillation' on behalf of the writers.

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  17. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Yeah maybe I'm reading too much into it. I'm blaming Buffering the Podcast who are educating me about queerness, and I am sure they would say that two women sharing a bath is gay. They though the reading club Joyce and Pat were members of, was a beard for their passionate affair

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    For me the whole sharing a bath thing just came across as 'odd'. I mean I've not known/heard any women in in all my years that would just jump into a bath with a stranger unless they were just after a good shag.
    Me neither - never shared and never heard of, but I don't know, the bathtub is so big that it looks like a pool! But exactly because they shared a bath and nothing happened (a look, a touch), it seemed to me they were just really chiling out.

    It just came across to me as more 'titillation' on behalf of the writers.
    Oh, yes.

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    A Beautiful Sunset

    It's nice to see Xander and Buffy working together, it reinforces that they are best friends in S8, especially when Willow disappears again. Not sure I understand Xander saying Buffy being an international jewel thief is 'incredibly sexy'. I'm not sure if they want us to think there's a change of a romantic relationship between them.

    I also don't like how Buffy keeps bringing up her need for sex/ a man. It just feels too desperate, and old fashioned and unnecessary. I'm not a big fan of their comments about Andrew either, who is actually very similar to Xander, and could be considered his friend, so it makes it sound a bit homophobic that they can't discuss him in those terms.

    Love the fighting/chat with Satsu, and Buffy's 'doomed' pov; everyone who loves me dies.

    Twilight doesn't sound like Angel, but he does behave like him. He goes for the psychological torture rather than the kill. He's making Buffy question herself further, and she's already in such a vulnerable position, she feels alone, Willow has abandoned her, Dawn won't talk to her, she believes this is all her fault because of the bank robbing and she has rougue slayers to worry about too.

    The itchy neck joke is lame.

    Xander looks hot again and says the right thing to make Buffy feel better. He's the only character this season to have a positive outlook and see a brighter future, I like this continuity with S7 Xander, who had a lot to deal with but has come out of it stronger and far more mature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wolves At The Gate - Part 1

    Xander and Renee are very sweet. I love the drawing of Buffy and Satsu, but I don't like the situation. Buffy is using Satsu, who she know's loves her. I would have liked to have seen how then ended up in bed together because it's hard to blame Buffy, although she's older and she has the power in the relationship and she's the one who is not gay.

    Why does Xander (and everyone else!) just walk into Buffy's bedroom without knocking? And when did he learn to fly a helicopter?

    I like the idea of the 'wolves' and them leading us to Dracula, who is fantastic in S8, so much better than on the tv show.

    I think this is the issue I've like the least so far. It just seems so farcical, literally and figuratively
    Never much cared for picket fences anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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  21. #51
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    #11 A Beautiful Sunset

    "Once upon a time... I did something good," Buffy.

    I loved Buffy talking about sharing her power and about not doing things alone. Everything is a team effort and that's when BtVS is great. I especially loved seeing the moment Satsu was called - she was bullied at school. There are a lot of small stuff I like about Satsu, like her stuffed animals - she's the best new character in the comics.

    Simone already rebelled. I can't believe that Rona sent her to Andrew of all people. Shouldn't she be sent to Giles? Even if the Scoobies consider Andrew one of them, he's still inexperienced when dealing with rouge slayers.

    Love the Buffy/Xander closeness. I feel that he's her best friend right now and not Willow. Buffy feels that Simone acted out because of her robbery, she's the ones who started misbehaving and the other slayers are copying her right now. Willow is against it and that's why she took off. Xander thinks it's sexy and necessary.

    "It's always complicated with girls. That's why I need a man!" Xander.

    Sosa: Spike! Spike! Spike! Spike! (They're gonna be roomies in S10 )

    Buffy: (wistfully) That would be nice... (Love Buffy teasing Xander and then mentioning Andrew. Xandrew. I read a fic once. Didn't really appeal to me. I prefer the Spander snark.)

    Xander saving a vampire nest for Buffy's birthday - he knows her so well!

    The dialogue is so funny and enjoyable - also, Dawn is already 18 in the comics, which Xander mentions, Xander/Dawn foreshadow?

    Xander is taking care of both Summers sisters when neither is there for the other. He's the glue holding the family together.

    Love Buffy's graceful jumping around and landing on her feet in contrast to Satsu clumsily crashing to the floor - reminds me of Buffy and Xander teaming upon rescue mission in IRYJ and Bad Eggs.

    The Buffy/Satsu talk is extremely well done. I was pulled into the issue as I read it. Buffy's abandonment issues: everybody leaves or dies because of her. "sent to a hell dimension" Angel "burning up" Spike "letting vamps suck on them then leave" Riley.

    "The Chosen One always in pain and always complaining. Just like a girl." Geez, Angel, never took you for a sexist man. I feel so bad for the Angel character, he was completely assassinated.

    This should have been our clue that Twilight is Angel: Buffy was about to slice him in half the same way she did to Caleb and Angel was the only one who saw that. "I know that move, Slayer."

    They mention flying so often in S8 to foreshadow Buffy's ability to fly later.

    Loved the panel with Buffy comforting Satsu - "I let you down." "Shh. No."

    Xander's speech to Buffy about slayers being filled with purpose also applies to him. I've never seen him so connected to the mission like he is now. Buffy, the leader, doesn't feel the connection and Xander assumes that she had to give it up to be able to lead.

    I find S8 a much stronger season than the other comic seasons. It's very layered and the dialogue is incredibly witty and so Buffy. I personally prefer S8 to S7 and find it far more enjoyable.
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  23. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    Why does Xander (and everyone else!) just walk into Buffy's bedroom without knocking? And when did he learn to fly a helicopter?
    The Scoobies always walk into homes and rooms without knocking - Giles always tries to remind himself to put a lock on his door.

    I assume Xander learned how to fly a helicopter during the year and a half we didn't see between S7 and S8.
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    Simone already rebelled. I can't believe that Rona sent her to Andrew of all people. Shouldn't she be sent to Giles? Even if the Scoobies consider Andrew one of them, he's still inexperienced when dealing with rouge slayers.
    This is something I've never understood, how did Andrew get his own squad? He isn't strong enough to lead and never has been, that isn't in his character. I also disliked them suggesting Simone needed to be taken out of an 'urban' setting, that seemed a bit classist to me. Anyway, there is no way Andrew could have handled Simone, in the city or the country
    Never much cared for picket fences anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosa lola View Post
    Love Buffy's graceful jumping around and landing on her feet in contrast to Satsu clumsily crashing to the floor - reminds me of Buffy and Xander teaming upon rescue mission in IRYJ and Bad Eggs.
    This is the moment I was talking about




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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    This is something I've never understood, how did Andrew get his own squad? He isn't strong enough to lead and never has been, that isn't in his character. I also disliked them suggesting Simone needed to be taken out of an 'urban' setting, that seemed a bit classist to me. Anyway, there is no way Andrew could have handled Simone, in the city or the country
    Nepotism clearly. A lot of good watchers died in S7 and anyone with connections seemed to get a promotion
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    Nepotism clearly. A lot of good watchers died in S7 and anyone with connections seemed to get a promotion
    Lol, I hadn't thought of that, but it does make sense, they must be desperate if Andrew can get a job as a Watcher
    Never much cared for picket fences anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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