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Thread: The Great Season 8 Re-read

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    Default The Great Season 8 Re-read

    GoSpuffy and I were discussing S8 and neither of us had read it in a while, so we thought we'd do a re-read. We might find something we'd like to comment on, so this is the thread for it

    Everyone is welcome to join us!

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    The long way home part 1

    The first thing I noticed looking at the images is that they've prettied up the actors. All of the people on Buffy we're good looking so it was weird to seem them drawn better looking. I'm more familiar with S10 and S11 and I think the charaters are drawn truer to form in those seasons. This feels very "female gazey" to me. It's all of the characters, not just the woman, Xander is way more of a hunk in S8.

    Why does Xander say 5x5? That's something really only Faith says. But as I said, he looks hot, eyepatch, trim body, prettied up face and everyone calling him "Mr Harris". This must be his heavan.

    Giant Dawn is funny and unexpected. I like her. Can't wait to find out more about what happened to her.

    Looking at the sunnydale crater is emotional. So sad it's gone forever. Can a city be resurrected?

    When Buffy says "miss that sex" I'm pretty sure that's a Spike reference. Not just any sex, "that" sex. Buffy, Spike's your end game, don't worry he'll be back and you guys will live happily ever after.

    Amy was a great cliff hanger.


    the long way home part two:

    The way Andrew is drawn he's barely recognizable.

    I'm glad the slayer message is still "anti gun".

    Naked giant Dawn is even funnier. And to have Xander watching her bathe is really funny too.

    I'm not surprised governments wouldn't like the slayer armies, women having power and strength is not really something they're looking for. So the conspiracy rings true to me.

    This episode actually confuses me during the dream sequences. I don't mind sleeping beauty buffy but I had to go back and read it to figure out what was dream and what was real.

    I like the thow backs to other moments, so enjoyed Willow channeling her inner Giles

    Long Way Home Part 3

    Ha! they fooled me for one second, expected Spike got Ethan.

    Buffy's dream of Spike and Angel, not sure I like it. I'm too Spuffy driven to really enjoy it I think but it is in character and it is funny if you don't think about it too hard.

    I definitely don't like the art as much as the S10 and S11 art by Rebecca Issacs. And I really like Gage's writing. Again there were times that I was confused.

    The long way home part 4

    So Warren's back and I know some people don't like how that was done but I can accept it. This season has a very unreal comic booky feel to it. The later seasons feel more like the show come to life in a comic book. I prefer the other style but I'm enjoying the story.

    This is the best part so far, the dialoge is better and the action is greater. Feels very Buffyesque.


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    I gotta say I loathed nearly every issue/ arc of season 8. Wolves in the gate was okay, but dear god the rest of it....

    I hated they 'Spuffy baited' with the Ethan thing and then to add insult to injury what they ended up doing, to him. What a waste of a great character. Considering most of their OC's were so forgetful I suspect DH regret doing that now.

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    I finished part 5 of the long way home. Part 4 was starting to pick up and give some of that witty repartee that I was expecting but part 5 went back to feeling clunky and heavy to read. Priceless Where are you? Don't let me read all by myself! I need you to hold my hand through this process.

    Other S8 readers - join us! We need your intellect!!


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    I'm here GoSpuffy, sorry, i wanted to finish Pet first, but I shall start S8 tomorrow, so prepare yourself for my intellectual reviews

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    Yeah, I also think that "that" sex is a reference to her thing with Spike... she could have said just "sex", I miss sex...

    I remember also getting fooled by Ethan's "love", for a moment I thought I was spoiled wrong and that Spike would be in the first chapters. And Ethan's death was ordered by Twilight, wasn't it? I'm not home, so I don't have my book with me.

    Xander is really in his best days, and giant Dawn entertains me; I know there are a lot of criticism about the whole thing - but on the show, we had people turning into rats (including Buffy), so it's just a matter of size... I wonder how she managed to get in Scotland...
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    I doubt I'll participate throughout the entire re-read as S9-S11 killed any enthusiasm I had for the comics (including S8 which I loved) but whilst I'm here;

    The Long Way Home Part I

    - The opening image of Buffy leaping out of the helicopter and *ahem* flying through the air is the first of many images foreshadowing Buffy's power of flight at the end of the season. She'll fall through the sky again during her dream in TLWY #2, Anywhere But Here, A Beautiful Sunset, WatG #15 and ToYL # 16. I love that.

    - The new Slayers Satsu, Leah and Rowena have more personality in their opening image than most of the Potentials had throughout the entirety of S7. It's a shame they don't capitalise on it more throughout the season.

    - "I feel weird about using a crucifix to kill someone" "Yeh, dinno much about religion, do ya?" is one of my favourite lines. It always makes me chuckle and it's the kind of writing that I sorely missed in S9-S11.

    - The dialogue in general is great. A perfect Buffyesque mix of snark, wit, humour and pathos with a healthy dose of reflecting on past seasons/episodes and also foreshadowing what's to come.

    - "Great muppety odin I miss that sex" is a perfect example of why I vastly prefer the writing in S8 to the beat-you-over-the-head and almost patronising 'must spell Every Single Thing Out' style of writing in the current seasons. It's ambiguous if Buffy is referring to a character (like Spike) specifically or just talking about sex in general. And that's why, even now, people are still talking about it. It's always better to leave enough room for fans to discuss and debate and bring their own interpretations to the text rather than simplifying the story to such a degree that there is nothing to question at all.

    - I love Giant Dawn. Always have and always will. In fact, I remember it was S8 that really turned me around on her character and made me adore her. I also love the 2 page spread of Buffy and Dawn's conversation as each panel passes over time throughout their conversation. What a great use of the medium.

    - The issue does a great job of teasing the Twilight mystery and the season's new Big Bad with the reveal of the Twilight symbol carved into the victim's chests and the panel of Twilight's boots hovering in the sky over the church. It's a pity that such an intriguing Big Bad kind of falls apart by the end of the season.

    - Buffy brings her Alpha Squad to the battle at the church which suggests that these are her best and most experienced and battle-ready Slayers. So it's interesting that she states the Twilight sacrifices are "their first victims. Gotta get them past it." That would suggest that until Twangel ramps up his plan against Buffy and the Slayer Army, that in the missing year and a half between S7-S8 there has been relatively little bloodshed (of the human variety anyway). It makes Twangel even more culpable for the death toll of Slayers that will soon follow.

    The Long Way Home Part II

    - I love the panels of Giles training a large group of Slayers by having them spar against each other. Jeanty's art was much better here than by the end of S9. He spends far more time on his background and the individual features of each character. He'll get sloppy and lazier over the next few years.

    - The Buffy/Xander dream is fun to unpack. Buffy kisses Xander which foreshadows the interest she takes in him later in the season. Buffy accidentally knocks Xander's head off as she tries to be passionate with him which foreshadows her breakdown in A Beautiful Sunset when she admits to feeling like she's a danger to anybody who loves her/she loves. Buffy admits to being afraid of her own darkness ("I'm afraid of the dark" "Buffy you *are* the dark" "That's what I meant") which foreshadows Twilight simmering inside of her and the danger she'll soon pose to the world. Buffy falls through the sky which, again, foreshadows the power of flight. And then Buffy is engulfed in Twilight Dragon's flames which foreshadows the 'unholy glow' when the prophecy will consume her.

    - I like that Buffy has magical protection over her room when she sleeps.

    - Xander sitting beside a naked Dawn as she bathes (though he's turned away from her) adds new (sexy) layers to their relationship that it hasn't had until now. There's an intimacy that they didn't have before which is an obvious setup for what's to come later on. Xander/Dawn reminds me a lot of Buffy/Riley in S4 in that they begin to lay the foundations for their relationship early on even if we have to get through another relationship (Buffy/Parker & Xander/Renee) on the way.

    - Great entrance of Willow at the end. The fun in general of this arc is getting to see all the main characters slowly reintroduced. Her actual entrance in the end is an obvious call back to Two to Go with Giles' entrance ("I'd like to test that theory") but also S6 in general with Willow wearing Tara's dress from OMWF. It's pretty appropriate that her entrance harkens back so much to S6 seeing as how she's about to square off with Amy who was her her witchy nemesis that led her down a dark path that season and is now on a dark path of her own. I wonder how Kennedy feels about Willow wearing her dead girlfriend's clothes? Hmm...

    I may post some brief thoughts on the other 2 parts of The Long Way Home later. As the years have passed I have really distanced myself from the comics and don't really consider them as part of my personal canon anymore but I still have a lot of fondness for S8. I was obsessed with it at the time.
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    The Long Way Home Part 1

    The opening image of Buffy leaping out of the helicopter and *ahem* flying through the air is the first of many images foreshadowing Buffy's power of flight at the end of the season. She'll fall through the sky again during her dream in TLWY #2, Anywhere But Here, A Beautiful Sunset, WatG #15 and ToYL # 16. I love that
    I'd never thought of that as foreshadowing, but of course you are right and it seems so obvious now

    The first thing I noticed looking at the images is that they've prettied up the actors. All of the people on Buffy we're good looking so it was weird to seem them drawn better looking. I'm more familiar with S10 and S11 and I think the charaters are drawn truer to form in those seasons. This feels very "female gazey" to me. It's all of the characters, not just the woman, Xander is way more of a hunk in S8
    i think that's Jeanty's style. It was commented on recently how child-like Dawn looked in Jeanty's drawings in Season 11. But I agree, it does stand out, and Xander does look very chiseled

    i like that in the first few pages all the issues with The Immortal/Rome are dealt with in a few sentences, and it was dealt with like an inside joke with the audience.

    Strange that the city of Orvieto should be mentioned, it seems a bit of an uncommon place that not many would have heard of. I wonder if it has any deeper meaning?

    I like the page where they cinematically pull out of the church and there in the sky we see Twilight's boots. That was well done.

    Really liking Xander and Buffy's relationship here. They are fun together, back to being best friends, which we hadn't seen in the show for a couple of seasons. And I agree GoSpuffy, Xander has never said 5x5 before and it does seems odd. But I think Buffy saying 'great muppety odin' sounds wrong too; it's more of a Xander line imo.

    When Buffy says "miss that sex" I'm pretty sure that's a Spike reference. Not just any sex, "that" sex. Buffy, Spike's your end game, don't worry he'll be back and you guys will live happily ever after
    Totally agree 100% It she weren't being specific she's just say 'sex' or 'the sex', but 'that sex' is too specific to mean anything else (and I'm not at all biased lol)

    Buffy being by herself, worrying about everything, has a real emotional impact, especeially 'I miss my mom . . . Suck it up Summers. You're a big girl now'

    Loved seeing a full page of Amy at the end, she looks as crazy as Dru Now we know who her boyfriend is, but when people were first reading this I bed no-one guessed Warren.

    Overall a good intro to the new season and the comics. Lots of questions to keep people coming back, Amy and those flying boots, we still haven't seen Willow or Giles, and why is Dawn a giant.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Long Way Home Part 2

    Agree GoSpuffy Andrew is unrecognisable, but he seems very in character, though you have to question an organisation that would put Andrew in charge of anything, especially a squad of slayers. He just is not a natural leader and doesn't instil respect in any way.

    I remember seeing the Xander/Dawn bathing scene and not even remotely thinking it was romantic or sexual, which is why I was so shocked later on when they got together. And how shocking is it when Buffy asks Xander if he's coming to bed

    Is that meant to be a painting of Mary Queen of Scotts on the wall of Buffy's room? It looks like Elizabeth, but that would be unusual in a Scottish setting I think. Does it mean anything? The virgin queen, sister against sister? I'm probably reading too much into it.

    The dream sequence is really well done I thought, and I like Buffy inferring that it is the darkness within her that she is most afraid of. Is Xander a robot because Buffy knows she and the real Xander will never (should never) have a sexual realationship?

    Renee discussing her feelings for Xander is sweet. Bet she just adores those pyjama's he's wearing, I know I do

    Good to see Willow again. The art is beautiful and she gets to repeat one of the best lines ever heard in the show.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Long Way Home Part 3

    Ha! they fooled me for one second, expected Spike got Ethan
    Lol, I expected it to be Angel, but nice to see Ethan again, and I like that Buffy tells him off for calling her 'pet'. Rayne also calls her 'lamb', which is also a Spike word. Maybe it's just that he's also English, but I like to think that in Buffy's mind everyone sounds like Spike

    Buffy's dream of Spike and Angel, not sure I like it. I'm too Spuffy driven to really enjoy it I think but it is in character and it is funny if you don't think about it too hard
    I'm with you there, I'd prefer Angel weren't in the dream, or it were just Angel. I don't like that Buffy somehow sees them as a pair, not separate

    Really enjoyed Willow and Amy's battle and Dawn's 'f***ing fum', and Andrew's 'you'd be bored stiff' is a great line. So enjoying Xander and Renee flirting, very cute.

    When Willow says Kennedy died, did she mean she killed her? I never really took notice that it was for a MONTH before. Being dead for a moment must be mind-altering, but for a whole Month! My respect for Kennedy grows, and Willow ought to be ashamed of herself.

    I'm loving how every issue is ending on a 'wow' moment and this has to be the biggest. Warren's appearance totally alters what went before, and I can understand why some fans didn't like it at the time, but with so many years in between I think it was a risk worth taking.
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    Bringing back Warren has got to be some of the lamest trash Whedon's ever written, it's right there with Alien Resurrection. If you have to bring back the most universally reviled character in the entire franchise, in a completely illogical way, while shamelessly retconing one of the most iconic moments from the TV series at least have a reason to do it! They bring back Warren and they do nothing with him. He does virtually nothing of importance in season 8. The only explanation I can think of is Whedon's unhealthy obsession with parallels. Like, Buffy has Willow and Xander so Angel needs to have Amy and Warren. Has Angel even met Amy? Are they in any scenes together in the TV series? Why not give Angel some sidekicks from his own bloody show? I mean, it's not like they don't spoil twilight's identity the first chance they get. It's same shit with The Master by the way, they bring him back, he does nothing, he dies. What a waste of page space.

    @Priceless
    And how shocking is it when Buffy asks Xander if he's coming to bed
    It's just so frustrating. Buffy has naughty dreams about Xander, she's attracted to him etc but instead of being a big girl and just asking him out while he's still single she spends, like, half of the season whining about how alone and lonely she is. And when she finally womans up about it Xander's in love with Dawn. Oh come on, Buffy!

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    It's just so frustrating. Buffy has naughty dreams about Xander, she's attracted to him etc but instead of being a big girl and just asking him out while he's still single she spends, like, half of the season whining about how alone and lonely she is. And when she finally womans up about it Xander's in love with Dawn. Oh come on, Buffy!
    I understand your frustration here, and I hated that Buffy asked Xander out when she knew he and Dawn were a couple. That felt so out of character for Buffy to do that to any other woman, but to do it to her own sister is just horrible.

    But I think she did it that way because subconsciously she does not want Xander in that way. She feels he's the only man available, he knows her, once had a crush on her, so he's an easy 'target'.But deep down she knows it's not right, wouldn't work and not what she really wants, so she does it in such a way because she knows Xander will never go for it. I think asking Xander out was done, as you say, just to underline how lost and lonely she was.

    Bringing back Warren has got to be some of the lamest trash Whedon's ever written, it's right there with Alien Resurrection. If you have to bring back the most universally reviled character in the entire franchise, in a completely illogical way, while shamelessly retconing one of the most iconic moments from the TV series at least have a reason to do it! They bring back Warren and they do nothing with him. He does virtually nothing of importance in season 8. The only explanation I can think of is Whedon's unhealthy obsession with parallels. Like, Buffy has Willow and Xander so Angel needs to have Amy and Warren. Has Angel even met Amy? Are they in any scenes together in the TV series? Why not give Angel some sidekicks from his own bloody show? I mean, it's not like they don't spoil twilight's identity the first chance they get. It's same shit with The Master by the way, they bring him back, he does nothing, he dies. What a waste of page space
    'Trash' is a pretty hard word I think on some levels it really does work. Warren certainly had an impact and I imagine it kept people talking about the comics, and still does. I agree the retconing was hard to take, but now, with so many years in between, I can forgive it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Long Way Home - Part 4

    It may be annoying to have Warren here, but he really is scary. Such a pity they killed off Ethan Rayne, I always liked him, he was a fun baddie. I would have loved more scenes between him and Giles.

    I liked the connection between Buffy and Willow, that always seems to come into play in every season. The last page of the issue was great. I does make perfect sense that Buffy and the Slayer army are not at war with the human race and the generals are trying to paint Buffy as a demon to be defeated.

    the issue hit a few emotional marks too, with Dawn saying Willow was like a mother to her. I don't think she deliberately meant to hurt Buffy, but it must have hurt. Xander was great again, tough and in charge, making the decisions and knowing he's not the right guy to accompany Buffy through the portal.

    Enjoyed all four issues, though the first was the best for me. It sets up the season really well. Twilight is intriguing and Buffy at war with the human race is a big enough storyline to be exciting. On the negative side, some of the dialogue sounds wrong, the Dawn as a giant story goes on too long and if feels like they just didn't know what to do with her, they shouldn't have killed off Ethan Rayne.

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    I love Ethan too. I would have loved to see a Giles/Ethan arc. It could be like Cass/Crowley in S11 or 12 when they were hunting Lucifer together. So funny!


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    So glad to see you guys reading S8!!! I will try to join soon!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vampmogs View Post
    - The dialogue in general is great. A perfect Buffyesque mix of snark, wit, humour and pathos with a healthy dose of reflecting on past seasons/episodes and also foreshadowing what's to come.

    - "Great muppety odin I miss that sex" is a perfect example of why I vastly prefer the writing in S8 to the beat-you-over-the-head and almost patronising 'must spell Every Single Thing Out' style of writing in the current seasons. It's ambiguous if Buffy is referring to a character (like Spike) specifically or just talking about sex in general. And that's why, even now, people are still talking about it. It's always better to leave enough room for fans to discuss and debate and bring their own interpretations to the text rather than simplifying the story to such a degree that there is nothing to question at all.
    I agree. The dialogue in S8 is very similar to that on the show.

    One thing I remember in the olden 2007 days when the covers of the first and second issues came out. People complained a lot about how Xander was drawn (I think mostly because they were upset that by sexing Xander up, he will sure end up being Buffy's endgame) except when you really think about it, Xander in the cover is how Xander should look like. The guy is 24 in S8 for God's sake and the Xander drawing was copied from an existing Nicholas Brendon photoshoot during the filming of S2 - when Nicholas Brendon was 27!





    So actually the comics got it right in that regards. Xander should look young because Xander is young.
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    Hi Sosa lola , it would be great if you joined us. You are right about Xander, he looks as a man of 24, who takes care of himself, should look. I guess we were thinking of S7 Xander, who of course is much older and living a different life. Here he is Chief Watcher, on duty 24/7, keeping himself in good condition because of the stress of the job, and maybe in an attempt to further impress Renee

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Chain

    I loved the them of the story, of all the slayers being linked and that they are stronger together and women have to support each other. But it was so bleak and sad. We didn't learn her real name and she dies. I wish she'd been rescued by the slayer squad and the message would have been more upbeat. Nice to see a cameo by Simone, to keep her in our minds and add to our understanding of her.

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    At a risk of sounding whiny, how do people manage to write so quickly? I’m committing my thoughts to paper on condition I can un-commit them if need be. My preferred way of reading is very close reading but I don’t have time for this. Having laid down conditions I’ll start with a whinge-fest of unconnected notes. Don’t hate me for them. Some are loose and I’m happy to be persuaded otherwise. Some I’ll change as the reading progresses (I’ve forgotten what the future holds). Others are new and I'm quite excited by them (I need to get out more).

    THE LONG WAY HOME PT. 1.

    I didn't like Buffy turning all the Potentials into Slayers. While I agreed with the sharing of power, I didn't like the idea of imposing it. It smacked too much of adopting a patriarchal solution. "General Buffy" makes me cringe. I don't like the hierarchy and I don't like the formality. I've always wondered whether, at some level, this finds a parallel with Twilight. I keep on seeing feet – Buffy’s feet and Twilight’s feet – encased in heavy boots. I could run with this (boots insulate them from the earth – the chthonic mother – I think this is a metaphor worth chasing). The following always intrudes on my mind when thinking of Twilight so I’m going to drop it here and run. Pricey – it’s Marx and Engels’ intellect not mine (from the 18th Brumarie).

    “Hegel remarks somewhere[*] that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce…Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living. And just as they seem to be occupied with revolutionizing themselves and things, creating something that did not exist before, precisely in such epochs of revolutionary crisis they anxiously conjure up the spirits of the past to their service, borrowing from them names, battle slogans, and costumes in order to present this new scene in world history in time-honored disguise and borrowed language”.

    General Voll's comments "They got a hard-line ideology that does not jibe with American interests" is precisely why the Army was a mistake – the world wasn’t ready for female power in this form. It didn’t address existing conditions or contradictions. People have to come to an awareness of false consciousness of their own volition. For me, the seeds of a true liberation were planted by Spuffy and they’re still germinating.

    The tethering (a false umbilical?) of the Slayers to technology (the helicopter “above” them) is something I could work with. I like the individual touches of difference in the Slayers. I like the colouring and the art-work. I like the big gap between the present/future (helicopter) and the past (the church) they’re falling towards. There’s nothing in between but incoherent noise (again, workable).

    There's a nasty irony in her having two doubles to protect her after the fuss made of the Buffy Bot (I have my own thoughts on the Bot). Not sure how comfortable I am with this. I like the allusion to AtS5 (the Immortal) Xander is still playing computer games - but with real people (that said, I like this Xander). I don't like the way the accents of the various slayers are portrayed. In print, it turns them into an exotic other in a way film doesn’t.

    I'd forgotten about the Twilight sigil. As I’ve already suggested, Angel S11 can be read as Twilight 2 or Twilight inverted. I’m wondering whether that symbol appears in 11 is a disguised form (a mirror image perhaps). Oh for god sake! Buffy: I think it’s a beautiful sunset (of the symbol). Xander: Seriously, you gotta see Dawn. They’re laying down clues thick and fast. Isn’t there supposed to be something in S8 that ties to Fray or have I made that up?

    I want to know who/what the stained glass windows represented and I want to juxtapose them with Xander’s “window” of the computer screen. There’s something going on with representation/misrepresentation. I like the pull back from the scene in the church to the final frame where we see Twilight’s feet and realise it’s his POV.
    I like the following section starts with a helicopter. The fact that there’s a discussion about language validates my use of Marx (“borrowed language/borrowed concepts). The void that is Sunnydale – the desert (of the real?) – the mention of “negative readings” – and again the tethering (inside/outside – present/past) is something I want to follow up. “I’m all alone down here” – in a museum haunted by shadows and traces of the past (Willies – LOL? Is that a carpet?). LOL! I don't think so.

    Dawn – I need to get my head around the thricewise Dawn. I can’t figure out the value of this segment. Dawn’s feet – trainers. Dawn’s in contact with grass (Buffy isn’t). Is Buffy out of touch with what it means to be a woman? LOL! “You’re a big girl now” – Dawn is literally bigger. It’s a continuation of S7 – both Spike and Faith commented on how Dawn had changed. Dawn pointed out she was taller. Note: Kenny is from the same Irish root as Kennedy. Dawn feels closer to Willow? I don’t like Buffy when she’s talking about Dawn – I want Dawn to swat her – until she says “I miss my home…I miss my mum” and it’s all put into context.

    Interesting she “misses the sex”…with whom? Riley? Or is this a veiled acknowledgement she’s missing Spike? (the crater, negative, Willies all evoke Spike. I think the “that” points to Spike.). I love the line “I can’t even feel sorry for myself in a linear fashion”. It’s a moment of self-reflection by her that suggests this is a self-reflexive text – a text that acknowledges its own constructed-ness. Goody! Buffy’s envious (Is this an overlap with AtS5 – Angel envious of Spike / Buffy envious of Dawn?) Angel lost touch with the gang – Spike developed connections. The “what does Willow know about boys”. Is pointing towards a division – a reliance on binaries that suggest Buffy's regressed from the Buffy I liked in S7. Is this why she needs that sex – to reconnect – to feel (shades of S6)?Is she having to make decisions under circumstances she didn't select? The words "chosen and choice" have significance. She didn't have the freedom suggested by the enigmatic smile at the end of 7. Shades of S6 "depression"? I think it's melancholy - she's mourning a loss.

    As I said – just initial notes. I know it sounds as though I’m being critical of Buffy – I’m really not. I'm trying to understand her. I’d really like the opportunity to develop these ideas. I’m also in danger of making it Spike centric BUT – I think he’s the absent presence. Spike and their relationship (central to 7) isn’t discussed but he creeps into her thoughts. He’s the dark place – he’s her unconscious.

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    No Future For You Part 1

    Pairing Faith with Giles works really well. She needs a father/watcher and he's lost his daughter/slayer. But there is the feeling that Giles is using her, that she's still second best, and I feel so sorry for her because she's put Giles on a pedestal.

    Faith really is the go to girl for dirty deeds, and killing children, even vamp children, must had an effect on you. Giles promises to help her get out of the slayer life, but we know that's never going to be possible, and so does Giles so these are empty promises just to get what he wants

    Giles is being at his most serious while wearing a yellow submarine jumper. Faith talks about Dr Seuss and the promises in children's books. Maybe both of these characters needs to grow up? Roden says to Genevieve 'you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat', another childish reference (and I always thought it was eat your dinner)

    Giles has become more brutal, saying he's shoot Genevieve himself if he could.

    I think Faith must have ptsd, is that why she's having flashbacks?

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    The dialogue in general is great. A perfect Buffyesque mix of snark, wit, humour and pathos with a healthy dose of reflecting on past seasons/episodes and also foreshadowing what's to come.
    Totally agree.
    Twangel
    I love this! I'm going to buy a dog simply for the joy of calling it Twangel.
    Can a city be resurrected?
    So profound! It depends on which theorist you read and what you consider a city to be. I'm inclined to quote Brecht but, having cited Marx, I'll resist.
    Strange that the city of Orvieto should be mentioned, it seems a bit of an uncommon place that not many would have heard of. I wonder if it has any deeper meaning?
    Is it the cathedral - the frescos/windows?
    I like the page where they cinematically pull out of the church and there in the sky we see Twilight's boots. That was well done.
    Reminded me of Citizen Kane. I'm scanning for snow globes.
    But I think Buffy saying 'great muppety odin' sounds wrong too; it's more of a Xander line imo.
    I agree. But are they channeling people who aren't there (5x5) and channeling each other? In S7 I liked the visual overlap between Buffy and Spike. Is this doing it verbally? I think it's a way of showing the intrusion of unconscious wishes.

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    Wow TriBel I could read your ramblings all day, thank you for posting. Hope you are going to continue reading with us.

    I know a lot of fans have problems with Buffy activating all the slayers and the lack of choice, and I do think S8 (as did S5 AtS) is trying to show that they understand these problems and try to rectify them, or at least give voice to the slayers.

    I'd never thought of the BuffyBot in the same terms as Buffy's doubles before. I'm not really a fan of if either as I don;t see why Buffy should have doubles, why she above the others needs protecting, as she is no longer 'special'. Where are Faith's doubles?

    Definitely agree 'miss that sex' is a comment on Spike, and he appears so much in S8 without even being there. I think he's in the language Ethan Rayne speaks in Buffy's dreams, and he's literally the object of her sexual dreams. Spike is very much part of Buffy, which I've only just picked up on this re-read

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    Spike is very much part of Buffy, which I've only just picked up on this re-read

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    No Future For You Part 2

    Great call back to Season 3, but it still feels like Faith is blaming Buffy for what happened, she doesn't mention trying to kill Angel.

    Giles is still saying Faith can leave slaying behind once she completes her mission, which is really annoying because I'm sure he knows that's not possible for Faith. I thought it was sad that when Faith was facing death her first thought was for Giles and wishing she'd been nicer to him.

    Genevieve is very much like The Mayor, she offers Faith the friendship she craves and it would be so easy for Faith to go dark and side with Genevieve against Buffy. In some ways I am surprised Twilight didn't come to Faith and ask her to join him.

    The Dawn/Willow scene seems out of place in this issue.

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    no future for you part one
    The first thing I noticed in the long way home was how the actors had been beautified. Why has Faith been uglified? She's one of the best looking actors in real life.


    Yes, it would be hard to kill vamp kids. Faith is coming across as so lonely and depressed.

    Giles looks good but what's that ugly yellow submarine sweater he's wearing? Did it mean something I'm missing because it's not his style. Tribel you might have to translate the sweater to me.

    Giles voice is coming across really well. It's weird to here him say the girl in question and it not be Buffy. Buffy is always TGIQ to me. Maybe it's because we have now learned it wasn't Buffy in Rome? And thats being reinforced?

    Giles has a tatoo? And I didn't know? Was that in the show? I'm enjoying Faith and Giles together. They are a good matchup. Enjoying the updated Pygmalion vibe.

    I like Buffy and Xander in the gym. No weird kiss dreams just a couple of old friends talking things out. I just don't see them as romantic partners. I am not looking forward to Buffy coming on to him to try and take him from dawn so I'm reading all their scenes carefully so I can hopefully understand that better when it happens.
    Last edited by GoSpuffy; 14-01-18 at 05:41 PM. Reason: Typo


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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