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Thread: Random Buffy Related Thoughts

  1. #1081
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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    I mean, it's certainly not as bad as that one from Dead Things where Buffy and Spike are, like...touching the crypt's door? Spike's wearing this completely ridiculous shirt he stole from a renaissance fair or a theater or something and a silver chain (yikes) and there's this acoustic butt-rock ballad playing in the background. That scene is truly awful but it has this so bad it's good quality to it so it ends up being kinda funny.
    In YOUR opinion it was, but not in mine hon.

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    PuckRobin's review of Dead Things was incredibly good. I got so much more appreciation for that episode and I already loved it. The door scene is a great way of showing the draw and reservation fighting each other for Buffy, desire and resistance. As PuckRobin said, the background music talks of self made barriers as the door remains between them but there are more than just physical barriers in the way. And hands are often used symbolically to show connection and it is a repeated theme between Buffy and Spike. This and other related points (such as the handcuffs as well as the violent beating) are in this ep between them and hands are looked at specifically in relation to the Trio and Katrina too. And I have to say Beneath You is one of my favourite episodes in great part because of the church scene at the end which is an incredible bit of writing to show how torn Spike is inside as the mask falls briefly and the inner turmoil pours out. The struggle to deal with the memories and voices are intense. And so we just continue to prove and represent that there's such a mix of opinions, likes/dislikes across fandom.

    My random thought.... am I remembering right that Jonathan remained a vengeance demon at the end of S10???

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  5. #1083
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    Oh for goodness' sake, he wears that ridiculous shirt again in Entropy. It's black and there are those stupid things on it, like, some literal doodles and stuff and it's not even his size. I won't be able to not-notice it ever again. And rings, tacky goth rings on fingers!

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    TriBel
    Method and emotional identification with a part, I'd want to run alongside the whole notion of "performance" (Show Time, Potential etc.)
    Completely agree! There's so much on "performance" in BY too - including direct segments like "bring the wife and kiddies, come see the show", but many other moments studded through the episode and S7. I love almost every line in S7 as well

    I mean, it's certainly not as bad as that one from Dead Things where Buffy and Spike are, like...touching the crypt's door? Spike's wearing this completely ridiculous shirt he stole from a renaissance fair or a theater or something and a silver chain (yikes) and there's this acoustic butt-rock ballad playing in the background. That scene is truly awful but it has this so bad it's good quality to it so it ends up being kinda funny.
    Ha - door-touching scenes are fantastically cinematic. They tell you so much about the state of a relationship. Look what Paul Newman does to this bathroom door after his sexual rejection of Liz Taylor in Cat On A Hot Tin Roof (granted, the movie is the Hollywoodized version of Tennessee Williams' play, but still):

    Spoiler:





    Another world is not only possible, she is on her way.
    On a quiet day, I can hear her breathing. -- Roy



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    Ha - door-touching scenes are fantastically cinematic. They tell you so much about the state of a relationship. Look what Paul Newman does to this bathroom door after his sexual rejection of Liz Taylor in Cat On A Hot Tin Roof (granted, the movie is the Hollywoodized version of Tennessee Williams' play, but still):
    I think they paid homage to the door scene in Lucifer (they also have a couple of roller skaters called The Slayer and Faith Kill)

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    Why is YouTube recommending Mandy and Wind Beneath Your Wings? I have way better taste and search history than that. It's got to be all Buffy videos fault.


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    Oh for goodness' sake, he wears that ridiculous shirt again in Entropy. It's black and there are those stupid things on it, like, some literal doodles and stuff and it's not even his size. I won't be able to not-notice it ever again. And rings, tacky goth rings on fingers!
    From what I can work out It's one of Angels cast off hon.

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    Ha - door-touching scenes are fantastically cinematic. They tell you so much about the state of a relationship.
    That doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ungenuine. BtVS is a post-modern show, it's supposed to be subverting and/or laughing at tired, old cliches like that, not embrace them. Like, what are you even doing, caressing a piece of wood?

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    James Marsters at Wales Comic Con 7th -8th December. Anyone going?

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    I looked into a con in Birmingham once he was going to be at but the cost was so big when there was so little that actually genuinely interested me in the program, it would just boil down to a meet and greet opportunity (although Alexis was going to be there too, it would still just be for a couple of 5 min hellos). I think JM has talked of going to cons himself when younger so perhaps he loves the atmosphere of them, I don't know. But it is still work and there's something I think would be depressing about enduring the tedium of signing photos and being paid to smile for a picture, answering the same questions over and over and over again. I assume he can't hate it because he does it so much, perhaps it is a positive boost to still be loved by so many for a role that finished an age ago. I can see why a lot of the actors do them, but a lot do it far less. Some aspects of it must surely be tedious. I find it hard to believe it isn't just that it earns well and that really he wouldn't rather have more successful roles which meant he didn't need to do so many.

    Sorry, all of that was a bit of a tangent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    James Marsters at Wales Comic Con 7th -8th December. Anyone going?
    I'd love to as meeting JM at these things is always a delight, but I just don't have the money these days sadly.

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    Stoney, I quite agree that JM must really wish he had more acting work rather than having to appear at these Cons. But I do admire the way he seems to make the absolute best of them. He's always appears positive and charming whenever I've seen videos of him and he really does seem to enjoy the ego boost of so many fans wanting to talk to him. I'd like to go, to support him, because if the fans decide he's not worth it anymore, that's a big chunk of his income gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    I'd love to as meeting JM at these things is always a delight, but I just don't have the money these days sadly.
    I'm very much in the same boat. Plus I wouldn't want to go by myself and I'm not sure I could persuade any of my friends to go with me

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    Google tells me his estimated net worth is 5 million bucks. I don`t think he has to go to every con he`s at. Of course he is doing this for money, but I don`t think he`d be doing it if he would hate it or find it boring as hell after twenty years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by a thing of evil View Post
    That doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ungenuine. BtVS is a post-modern show, it's supposed to be subverting and/or laughing at tired, old cliches like that, not embrace them. Like, what are you even doing, caressing a piece of wood?
    Yeah but not all po-mo does that - and I think the playful postmodernism of the early seasons is replaced by a more political, critical postmodernism in the later seasons (which is probably why it's more downbeat). From what I've read Whedon seems fond of the word "baroque", a term used to label the later stages of a genre when a genre "becomes “mannerist” or self-reflexive; established plots and characters are inverted; parodies are popular". It's not a term I'm familiar with but it seems to me to be an adequate description of S6/7 (hence OMWF, Normal Again and Tabula Rasa). By S7, I think BtVS has fully embraced deconstruction, post-structuralist feminism and theories of representation etc (Get it Done seems to take us right back to the Allegory of the Cave). "Play" becomes important - I think "playful" less so.

    As for getting rid of cliches, how cliched is "love"? Personally, I think Buffy's moving into more radical territory by embodying Spike ("he's in my heart") but fans still cling to concepts such as "boyfriend" and "in love".

    "Caressing a piece of wood" - see, I quite like that. The wood's dead, the door's an object - "a dead thing". Buffy, caressing a dead thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TriBel View Post
    Yeah but not all po-mo does that - and I think the playful postmodernism of the early seasons is replaced by a more political, critical postmodernism in the later seasons (which is probably why it's more downbeat). From what I've read Whedon seems fond of the word "baroque", a term used to label the later stages of a genre when a genre "becomes “mannerist” or self-reflexive; established plots and characters are inverted; parodies are popular". It's not a term I'm familiar with but it seems to me to be an adequate description of S6/7 (hence OMWF, Normal Again and Tabula Rasa). By S7, I think BtVS has fully embraced deconstruction, post-structuralist feminism and theories of representation etc (Get it Done seems to take us right back to the Allegory of the Cave). "Play" becomes important - I think "playful" less so.

    As for getting rid of cliches, how cliched is "love"? Personally, I think Buffy's moving into more radical territory by embodying Spike ("he's in my heart") but fans still cling to concepts such as "boyfriend" and "in love".

    "Caressing a piece of wood" - see, I quite like that. The wood's dead, the door's an object - "a dead thing". Buffy, caressing a dead thing...
    I think it's more Buffy was post-modern when it wanted to be, ie, when it was making fun of something Joss thought was lame. It embraced the hokey as often as not. Orgasm bite anyone?

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    a thing of evil
    That doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ungenuine. BtVS is a post-modern show, it's supposed to be subverting and/or laughing at tired, old cliches like that, not embrace them. Like, what are you even doing, caressing a piece of wood?
    I've actually thought about this before and concluded that Buffy is very self aware. "I wear the cheese. It does not wear me." I think the Cheese Man's statement in Restless was Joss's meta for how tropes explored in the Buffyverse were deliberate and self reflexive. The 'verse wears it, it is not worn by it.

    Allusions to classical generic conventions or formulas doesn't necessarily undermine BtVS's postmodernism. OMWF is a deliberate homage to generic formulas of the Hollywood romance and to the musical - a conscious nod to West Side Story which Joss loves - but it's mostly friendly. Plus the later seasons are very self reflexive. It's why we got the commedia dell'arte reference by Clem during the family-bickering scenes in Hell's Bells.

    Postmodernism can be itinerant and ludic, and the late seasons (6 and 7, possibly 5 and 4 - i'll have think about it more) possibly has features of Propositive Postmodernism (labyrinthic mythologization - arboreal or rhizomatic/ sensuality of the glance/ generic hybridization). I'm undecided about which vein but yes it's interesting to think about!
    Last edited by SpuffyGlitz; 25-06-19 at 06:40 PM.
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    SpuffyGlitz

    Postmodernism can be itinerant and ludic, and the late seasons (6 and 7, possibly 5 and 4 - i'll have think about it more) possibly has features of Propositive Postmodernism (labyrinthic mythologization - arborean or rhizomatic/ sensuality of the glance/ generic hybridization). I'm undecided about which vein but yes it's interesting to think about!
    I hate postmodernism - bane of my life! Ihab Hassan: ‘I have not defined Modernism; I can define Postmodernism less. No doubt the more we ponder, the more we will need to qualify all we say.’ (My records say 1996 but I suspect it was earlier.) Jameson in 1982: ‘[t]he concept of postmodernism is not widely accepted or even understood today’. The damned press reckoned it had run its course by 1975 and that "post-post modernism was the thing".

    I've just gone through my own notes and this works for me. It's from Lyotard (might as well start at the top!).
    For Lyotard postmodern works are not "in principle governed by preestablished rules, and they cannot be judged according to a determining judgement, by applying familiar categories to the text or to the work. Those rules and categories are what the work of art itself is looking for. The artist and the writer, then, are working without rules in order to formulate the rules of what will have been done...Post modern would have to be understood according to the paradox of the future(post)anterior(modo)". Future-anterior's the logic of S7 - it goes back to the beginning.

    For S7 - definitely rhizomes not trees! Lessons - Willow is sitting under a tree but brings a flower through the earth "It's all connected. The root systems, the molecules...the energy. Everything's connected". Eat your heart out Deleuze

    The sensuality of the gaze: there's an article somewhere about/by Noxon where Noxon discusses a female gaze. It might be this one: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...ticle34832480/

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    Priceless
    James Marsters at Wales Comic Con 7th -8th December. Anyone going?
    I can`t find anything about Prices. Pricey, do you know how much the tickets are and how much a Q&A session with JM would be? Or a photo shoot? Or both?

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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    Priceless

    I can`t find anything about Prices. Pricey, do you know how much the tickets are and how much a Q&A session with JM would be? Or a photo shoot? Or both?

    flow
    https://www.walescomiccon.com/buy-tickets

    They haven't announced prices yet so I'd check what other CC's charge. WARNING - he was announced as a guest last year and I think he cancelled (could be wrong). That aside, we might have closed the doors to members of the EU by then.

    BH! As far as I can tell, it isn't even in Wales - it's in Telford, which is in Shropshire.
    Last edited by TriBel; 17-05-19 at 07:37 PM.

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    Oh shit, I am going to need a visa???
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