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Thread: What is your opinion of Cangel?

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    Default What is your opinion of Cangel?

    I've only watched Angel twice, and I'm not a huge fan, but I did enjoy season 3 and was intrigued by the prospect of a relationship between Angel and Cordy. I would have liked to have seen the writers take it on and build a mature and believable relationship between the two.

    Would you have liked to have seen that relationship grow or would it have never worked for you?

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    I've only watched S1 through 4 once. I've watched S5 countless times, I tend to watch it as S7 of Buffy. My problem with cAngel is Cordelia. Blech, just typing her name makes me vomit a little. CC did too good of a job portraying her, she is every horrible mean girl I've ever had the misfortune to come across in my life. That said, I support cAngel. Angel needs somebody and seems to prefer humans and I think it makes more sense than Buffy. But didn't she end up with connor? That's kind of messed up.


    I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    I've only watched S1 through 4 once. I've watched S5 countless times, I tend to watch it as S7 of Buffy. My problem with cAngel is Cordelia. Blech, just typing her name makes me vomit a little. CC did too good of a job portraying her, she is every horrible mean girl I've ever had the misfortune to come across in my life. That said, I support cAngel. Angel needs somebody and seems to prefer humans and I think it makes more sense than Buffy. But didn't she end up with connor? That's kind of messed up.
    I know you are not Cordy's biggest fan, but on AtS she became a champion (I hate that they use that word on the show, why not just say 'hero') It wasn't Cordy, but a demon god who was possessing her body who slept with Connor, but yes it was really messed up

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    I meant to mention that I did like cordy in "your welcome". That episode was nicely done.


    I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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    I'm not that sold on the idea of Cangel as a great romantic pairing. Angel's feelings for Buffy (on the parent show) and Darla (on Angel) felt much stronger.

    But I do like the really close friendship that Angel and Cordelia developed. Surely, Angel is all about redemption and Cordelia redeemed herself from her beginnings as Sunnydale High's "Mean Girl".

    One of the best qualities about Cordelia (and Anya too, so this is apparently something that appeals to Xander) is the character's fundamental honesty. Sometimes it comes off as rudeness, but when Cordy supports you, it comes from a very genuine place.

    What they did to Cordy in Angel season four was nuts, but then so was most of that season.

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    I really disiked the whole "we're special champions" attitude that accompanied Cangel, it bugged me a lot. But I don't think it was out of character for either to get like that. I like AtS S3 & S4 a lot and personally think it worked how Cordelia developed and then fell foul to her own weakness when she believed so readily in herself as being destined to be literally raised up high. Once that whole attitude became a part of the burgeoning romantic dynamic between them, rather than her keeping Angel grounded as she was at first during their friendship, I was turned off them getting together quite severely. Your Welcome just piled on plenty of what I didn't like about them and sent Angel off down a really destructive and negative route which cost many lives. When they felt they were less of a power couple I would have said it had potential, but overall I preferred the friendship because of how the tone of the romance went.

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    Priceless

    * Angel/Cordy was because of Jasmine.

    Angel left Buffy because he couldn’t have sex with her. Buffy at the time only had sex once—with Angel—and was willing to be celibate if it meant she could stay with Angel.

    Cordelia was having regular amounts of sex for an attractive 20-something when Angel/Cordy is ramping up in AtS s3. Hers suddenly trying to use Groo as an Angel substitute made around zero sense if Angel/Cordy wasn’t because of Jasmine.

    Frankly, Angel/Darla made more sense than Angel/Cordy and Angel/Darla post-BtVS S1 is also because of Jasmine.



    GoSpuffy

    * Pre-Slayer, Buffy was a better more popular version of Cordelia.

    Buffy upon arriving at Sunnydale High School wanted her ‘old life’ back and would have relatively easily displaced Cordelia as ‘Queen Bee’ of SHS if the Slayer stuff hadn’t gotten in the way.


    * Angel’s main relationships were with 2 vampires (Darla and Drusilla), a Slayer (Buffy), and a werewolf (Nina), and Nina wasn’t really much of a relationship.

    Even the Angel/Cordy stuff was ramping up after Cordy was a ‘seer’.



    PuckRobin

    * I reject the notion the Cordelia needed redeeming from her Sunnydale High School mean girlness. She wanted popularity, power, and popular friends. So, she said mean things to Xander (eventually dated him and was rewarded by his cheating on her with Willow) and Buffy (Cordy was a Scooby and clearly admired Buffy). The worst thing Cordy did in as a ‘mean girl’ was not tell Buffy about picture day.



    Stoney

    I really disiked the whole "we're special champions" attitude that accompanied Cangel, it bugged me a lot.
    Angel was with Buffy because she’s the Slayer and Drusilla 2.0.

    Drusilla turned Spike into a legendary dark warrior who killed Slayers. They pretty much played King and Queen of the Sunnydale Underground and acted as such. Spike in Spike & Dru : “Paint the Town Red” becomes King of a city.

    Willow and Tara’s magical abilities are literally what drew them to each other.

    Buffy and Spike’s being mortal enemies and essentially being the counterparts to each other in terms of fighting and slaying ability is much of their attraction to each other and interest in each other.

    If anything, what was disgusting about the ‘”championess” of Angel and Cordelia pre-“Inside Out” (A 4.17) is how incredibly insulting and demeaning it was to: Buffy, Willow, and Spike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post

    Stoney

    Angel was with Buffy because she’s the Slayer and Drusilla 2.0.
    If I tried to come up with two female characters in Buffyverse who had the least in common in terms of personality (or even appearance), I would probably come up with Buffy and Drusilla.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Seriously?

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    I don't have a strong feeling on the Buffy-Drusilla dichotomy one way or another. I actually wonder if perhaps they had a lot more in common when Drusilla was alive. Not to mention that Drusilla was forced to live out a cassandra complex due to her gift, and that there is a bit of that in the secret life of a Slayer as well. Of course, nobody turned that into a metaphor for a female protagonist in modern history for my money than Wes Craven did (I honestly would not have minded one bit for the mid-2000s to have seen him get a shot to play around with the Buffy IP).

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    I partly agree with KingofCretins (I know nothing of Wes Craven) that a living Drusilla had a lot in common with Buffy and it was perhaps those similarities that drew Angel/Angelus to them. They were both innocents, both had powers that intrigued him and both were family orientated, they had people who loved them and cared for them and he felt they both needed him in some way. I know TriBel would say that both girls reminded Angel of his sister Kathy in that they were innocents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I partly agree with KingofCretins (I know nothing of Wes Craven) that a living Drusilla had a lot in common with Buffy and it was perhaps those similarities that drew Angel/Angelus to them. They were both innocents, both had powers that intrigued him and both were family orientated, they had people who loved them and cared for them and he felt they both needed him in some way. I know TriBel would say that both girls reminded Angel of his sister Kathy in that they were innocents.
    We have seen living, human Drusilla in the Becoming part 1 flashback. It's safe to say, her personality was nothing like Buffy's before or after she was called.

    "They are both innocents" and "they have a gift" are pretty much the only similarities, so the idea of Buffy being a new Drusilla only works in terms of fetishization of the idea of female virginity, goodness and 'innocence' (in a Madonna/whore dychotomy as the opposite of Darla), rather than in terms of the two having anything in common in terms of personality, upbringing or appearance.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    We have seen living, human Drusilla in the Becoming part 1 flashback. It's safe to say, her personality was nothing like Buffy's before or after she was called.

    "They are both innocents" and "they have a gift" are pretty much the only similarities, so the idea of Buffy being a new Drusilla only works in terms of fetishization of the idea of female virginity, goodness and 'innocence' (in a Madonna/whore dychotomy as the opposite of Darla), rather than in terms of the two having anything in common in terms of personality, upbringing or appearance.
    I do see other similarities; Dru and Buffy share the same attachment to family, their gifts often set them at odds with those families. The both have prophetic dreams which they see as gifts from a higher power/PTB.

    Dru's attachment and belief in God is similar to Buffy's early belief in the teachings of the The Watchers Council, and both could be argued to be patriarchal constructs, a by-product of which is to keep women in their place. They are both unquestioning of what these organisations have taught them, and although it appears Buffy is a rebel (compared to Kendra) she does the Councils bidding as Dru does the churches. At least Buffy was given the chance to grow up and realise the Watchers Council was pedaling a line to further their own interests, Dru was never given that chance.

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    The similarity I saw was that they were both yanked out of their lives by insidious powerful forces that they recognized but that the world around them did not, despite those forces being an existential threat to them. The isolation of it drove Drusilla mad and... Buffy herself was institutionalized. I likened it to Cassandra; both Buffy and Drusilla lived for a time cursed to know truth and in Dru's case literal foretelling but not to be believed. For Dru it ended with her breaking psychologically before being turned, with Buffy the curse was lifted by the company of those who did see and believe.

    I think had Angelus been a spectator to the new Slayer and saw how hard the transition was for her, he probably would have made her a project for most of the same reasons -- special, compassionate, but isolated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    "They are both innocents" and "they have a gift" are pretty much the only similarities, so the idea of Buffy being a new Drusilla only works in terms of fetishization of the idea of female virginity, goodness and 'innocence' (in a Madonna/whore dychotomy as the opposite of Darla), rather than in terms of the two having anything in common in terms of personality, upbringing or appearance.
    Totally agree with this.

    For some reason, Angel/Angelus was drawn to Innocence and Purity and Goodness; his liking for babies, nuns, virgins, brides, was not a mere coincidence. As Angelus, he had the pleasure of destroying it; as Angel, he wanted to “become someone”, as soon as he saw the Chosen One.
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    Quote Originally Posted by betta View Post
    Totally agree with this.

    For some reason, Angel/Angelus was drawn to Innocence and Purity and Goodness; his liking for babies, nuns, virgins, brides, was not a mere coincidence. As Angelus, he had the pleasure of destroying it; as Angel, he wanted to “become someone”, as soon as he saw the Chosen One.
    In many ways that makes Angel a pretty "basic bitch" psychologically speaking, there's a lot of Freudian stuff about debasing things that are loved.

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    Cangel to me felt forced and unnecessary. It was almost like the writers had decided Cordy and Angel were too good of friends not to be romantically involved. I don’t think Angel ever needed a love interest after Buffy, but I did like the fling with Gwen and even Nina. But Angel and Cordy were perfect as best friends. Best friends can fall in love, but a strong woman with a queen attitude and a distant, emotionally private hero with much more important things to focus on are not the type of friends who should take things further.

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    I think that if S4 hadn't gone the way it did, we would have seen Cangel as one of the most adult relationships in the verse. Angel and Cordy were great friends, but I thinks that's why it could have grown into something more romantic, because the admirations, love and loyalty were already there. I could easily see a sexual component written in, as they were both beautiful looking people, I don't see any reason why they couldn't become lovers. I think the best relationships are often based on true friendship. But I accept I am in a minority . . . there aren't enough romantics on this board

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    I liked there relationship. I honestly thought Cordy at that point in Angels 'unlife' was good for him. Yes, it all went sour with the whole Jasmine story arc, but before that I think they fitted each other well.

    I have to say It always makes me smile when I see some Bangel fans still trying to rip into this pairing on Tumblr. It still REALLY annoys them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver1 View Post
    I liked there relationship. I honestly thought Cordy at that point in Angels 'unlife' was good for him. Yes, it all went sour with the whole Jasmine story arc, but before that I think they fitted each other well.

    I have to say It always makes me smile when I see some Bangel fans still trying to rip into this pairing on Tumblr. It still REALLY annoys them.
    Cordy pricked Angel's pomposity and bought him down to earth, there was none of that 'when I kiss you I want to die' melodrama, they were just two grown-ups (and yes Cordy was aged up druing the show) and I'd have liked to see their relationship develop.

    Yes I think Cangel is hated by the bangels nearly as much as Spuffy. I think bangels can handle Angel with Nina because it's obvious it's not true-love, but I think the writers were trying to make Cangel a real love match.

    One day someone will have to teach me how to use Tumblr Although it sounds as bad as Facebook for upsetting people

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