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Thread: Fanfic Discussions - reading group

  1. #121
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    The Sunnydale FanficClub has announced on tumblr, that they are having technical issues and Pet will be postponed.

    flow
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    Quote Originally Posted by flow View Post
    The Sunnydale FanficClub has announced on tumblr, that they are having technical issues and Pet will be postponed.

    flow
    That's really disappointing. I was really looking forward to hearing Sigyn talk about her work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    That's really disappointing. I was really looking forward to hearing Sigyn talk about her work.
    You only have to read her stories to hear Sigyn talk about her thoughts.

    Sorry, I couldn't resist. I do think she writes good fanfics, even if I do have frustrations with them.

    EDIT: Presumably they will just do it next when they are back up and running, it's probably not going to be a long delay so your reread won't be wasted.
    Last edited by Stoney; 12-01-18 at 06:12 PM.

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    Stoney you'll be pleased to hear that I've finished Pet and cannot praise it highly enough It's so well written, the story is gripping, the characterisation is spot on.

    I hope you are right and the podcast will only be postponed a week

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  8. #125
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    I feel like I've managed to create a false impression of my thoughts about Sigyn. I do think the fics of hers I read were better than average and it isn't that I didn't enjoy Pet. The scenario and a lot of the character thoughts were interesting. It's just that the characters don't talk about themselves and think out loud to analyse themselves like that all the time. In that way the characterisation and writing aren't great because it's about her getting them to present her thoughts/analysis. Obviously this is somewhat true of most fanfics, the writer is presenting their character thoughts and exploring specific ideas, but it should come through the story and seeing the character responses/interactions rather than unrealistic, overwritten, over explained character thoughts. So it's a writing issue imo, but is somewhat removed from what they are actually saying, if you see what I mean. Or, I have explained adequately and now I'm just needlessly (and probably irritatingly!) repeating myself, so I'll stop. I just want to emphasise I don't totally dislike Sigyn's stories, or I wouldn't be considering reading more of them.

    In the case of Pet I'm also not at all convinced Buffy/their relationship wouldn't be somewhat negatively affected by experiencing all that she did and that she saw first hand. Instead she mostly reaches a conclusion that she just has a thing for vamps (as far as I remember).
    Last edited by Stoney; 13-01-18 at 05:34 AM.

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  10. #126
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    I fully take on board what you are saying Stoney and yes, Sigyn does have her characters self-analysing a lot, but I like that. For me it's similar to being on this board, I like hearing what others think of the characters and it doesn't bother me that I can't answer back. I guess I mostly agree with Sigyn's interpretations because I wouldn't read her fics if I didn't agree with her standpoint. I'm also a big fan of her style, she can tell a really good story in a way I've not seen before, and I like the darkness of her stories.

    Yes she does have Buffy 'realising' she has a thing for vampires, which might seem a bit silly, but the way it was written was so convincing that I just went with it

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  12. #127
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    I think they are interesting perspectives, some of which I'd probably say I agree with, some I can see the appeal in considering even if I don't and other ideas, not so much. I see what you mean that it is just like hearing thoughts on the characters etc through a story medium rather than a forum. And yes, that side of fics and seeing how else people could imagine things having gone/going or want to imagine is intriguing to see and think about. But I think one of the reasons I find the constant open articulation frustrating is that the characters rarely sound like themselves because of it, it's incredibly strange for them to be talking like that. I have enjoyed fics that have poor voicing/characterisation because I've really enjoyed the story premise and others that have great voicing but poor storytelling. There's always a mix/balance. Personally I love feeling like I can actually picture the scenes and the characters saying what is written. The constant revelations and over articulation spoils that aspect for me. And even if the voicing around it is good, those moments break that effect.

    The idea that Buffy has a thing for vampires is certainly an argument that can be made I think. The link of the duality and the slayer side, the physical strength being more equivalent etc I think is clearly a part of her attraction to Angel and Spike. With her S6 relationship with Spike, you could certainly also argue that it is something that is strong enough that she could push aside her morality for, but I don't think that was separate enough to the circumstances it occurred in that it is something she'd do generally or necessarily feel with any/all vamps. Having felt that she lost herself somewhat in S6 I think it would have to be circumstantial and maybe vamp specific, which arguably the scenario in Pet gives. I'm not sure about the Dru connection though, that made it more general and more blankly 'vamp' based for me to go with. And I still think Buffy would have serious issues with having actually lived the experiences she did in Pet in truth. But the 'horror' side of any reaction is obviously intentionally limited to the aim of the story. As much as it in theory was showing a darker side, which to degrees it did compared to the average fic, it was also still within the boundaries of that aim of Buffy reaching out to Spike, wanting that connection with him, still loving him, and to some extent successfully connecting with him. It's all interesting to consider, but I think that Buffy can/could be perfectly happy with a non-vampire partner too.

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  14. #128
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    Does anyone have any ideas for a new fic?

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    @Stoney, are you still reading Old Blood ? I`d rather wait for you this time, so we can start the next fic together. Besides, I really want to hear, what you think about it.

    I would have something on my mind, but I have already suggested the last one (The Butterfly Effect) and therefore wait, if someone else wants to suggest a fic this time.

    By the way @priceless, have you finished The Butterfly Effect yet ? What did you think about it ?

    And what about you @Spuffyfreak ?

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    Last edited by flow; 14-01-18 at 09:36 PM.
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    Okay, I've finally finished Old Blood by Nan Dibble.

    My responses to it in the main contrast to how Priceless found it, although I agree on the lack of Spike/Buffy. I still really like this fic though, possibly even more on a reread to be honest. But I think this is perhaps because I was prepared for not loving the Spike/Buffy of it but still adored the Spike/Dawn enough to want to read it again. I also really like how well a great deal of it fits in alongside canon. But I have some strong reservations in the characterisation of Buffy and some of where it went with her/Spike, even though I think the characterisation of Dawn and Spike was really, really great. There aren't many fics that write Spike/Dawn so well I don't think and Dawn, her smarts, her determination and the effects from her sense of otherness are great parts of it too that make her really recognisable throughout. So despite there being things I don't like about it which do have an impact, I still have to give it 7.5/10.

    When I started typing I didn't expect to be as long-winded as I got, but I don't have time to edit it down right now so you're stuck with how verbose I am and then some this time I'm afraid.

    So yeah, this is very much a Spike and a Spike/Dawn story really, but as a Spike centric fan I'm still pretty happy seeing more of what S7 may have held for him. I actually really liked seeing Spike wanting to track down and dust the vamps that he sired. They're problems he had unknowingly created and released, I think it makes sense that he would. I don't think this overwrites Sleeper Priceless because we started the story with Buffy retrieving him in Showtime, which comes after. I just picture this as running alongside canon. So as pieces of memories are returning to him post the Sleeper disruption when he finally recalled killing, he's just trying to sort through it all and figure out who the others he sired were. It's totally plausible I think that there could have been more than those Buffy saw in the basement with him, the woman in the bronze and Holden weren't there either after all.

    I also don't have any big problems with considering the Aurelian vamps as stronger than average because I think that is somewhat compatible with the kind of distinction we get in canon from Archaeus, who I think actually said something along those lines. The blood ties to a stronger demon lord affects the line, so with the focus on blood ties in the story I think it works fine and is compatible to the reputations and what we saw of The Master/Darla/Angel/Dru/Spike. However, I think the comparison that most vamps are just dumb animals was taken too far, even though the description of waking as a vampire was done really well.

    The only strong issues I have with the Spike of it are the breaks from canon with his claim to Dawn of having not sired and that the spell then further undoes the need for LMPTM. It's obviously an aim of the story to avoid this but it's a season favourite for me and such a significant point of development for him. It means we have to re-view Lie To Me too. Perhaps Spike bit Ford but someone else sired him, or perhaps Spike didn't count it when he made his claim if he considered Ford was a vengeance siring. I'm happy to believe he left the body knowing Buffy would make sure he was dusted as he rose but it doesn't fit well to how adamant he was about siring. At least I don't have to assume the history with his mum is completely undone. I tend to think of the trigger as being hidden in the scene/memory of dusting his mum, but it could have actually been that he had totally suppressed the memory of even siring his mum, as I think Aurora mooted as a possibility in her fabulous FFL review, and that could meaningfully play a subconscious part of why he feels the way he is being presented here. But even in viewing his siring comment like this, I'm still a little disappointed in the rewriting here moving away from that ep and the spell fixing the trigger too.

    It just felt a little unearned and, as such, not in keeping with the style of writing in the story. I enjoy how the writing's points of development for the characters and their relationships hang on significant events (Spike trying to follow the patrol, my much loved peach schnapps scene, the scene at the bar, Kennedy's attack on Spike, his injuries saving Kennedy, Dawn/the SITs taking out the remaining fledges). The reader is left to understand the nuances, what is changing between them and understand why from seeing their experiences affect their responses to each other. So having something major like the trigger removed just in a ripple caused incidentally was disappointing. Although, having said that, it could also be seen as adding unexpected layers that will have to be dealt with, things not going as expected is certainly par for the course for these characters and a fair inclusion from that side of things. We'll see if it gets any further thought in the sequels, but I'd be surprised.

    I really like Spike training the potentials and was totally absorbed in the story whenever he was out with them and trying to manage/command the group, the training/patrolling/managing the Bringer attacks. I could really picture him in those scenes and think it works well as a depiction of him souled to handle the role as he did. I didn't feel like Kennedy was written as a bad guy personally, she was just being a douche in a way that I actually find quite believable for her to be honest.

    As I think I said when I started reading it, I think the exploration of how Dawn/Spike/Buffy (and to a lesser extent Willow too) are adjusting and viewing the soul is interesting. But I do have some reservations (I'm sure you're shocked to hear that!). I didn't like early Buffy in this fic much, her lack of appreciation for Spike's soul and the consideration of wanting to use him again. I can see why Buffy and Dawn would look to some aspects in the dynamic shifts with the soul and feel unsure and that things would feel difficult and complicated now in a way that is unsettling. It's a meaningful change but still with that sense of continuation too. It can't be easy to work through. I can even see that some changes and shifts might feel for the worse as a person that they knew well and had spent a great deal of time with is now somewhat lost. But as the fic doesn't focus on the development between Spike and Buffy, how they became emotionally close, the desire to readily be physical again felt like a regression and something Buffy had realised wasn't great when they split in S6 as it came over as a want to limit them again to using him. On the plus side, as much as Buffy and Dawn were both shown to have reservations, the story also presented their awareness of differences that were positive changes they acknowledged, such as his willingness to think of others outside of his personal priorities (taking on the role with the SITs) and his greater moral awareness (a belief he'd know some stories were too awful to tell now).

    I'm not keen on the focus of Dawn's anger and uncertainty around the soul being more about him leaving than SR. Although I don't doubt it was very much in play. But it works well with her own self doubts and the way they related as 'others' in the story, highlighted by her acknowledging she'd always seen him as 'people' before. But this was then somewhat addressed with one of those occasions where the difference in him was seen as positive as Kennedy's actions again provided a point of realisation as his determination to save her despite her behaviour striked Dawn as soul related, so "Maybe there was some use to it". We also had Willow's understanding and acceptance of him when injured considered against her own actions and her assertion that he's become a person of integrity. So I don't think the soul is perhaps as dismissed as it appears at a glance in the story. Maybe the writer is mostly trying to emphasise the connection Buffy and Dawn felt to him before his soul. The idea of him seeing himself as a weapon now, clear he is there to protect Buffy/Dawn isn't new, but that this can now expand to others is brilliantly illustrated with the potentials and so the difference of the soul is there in a few ways. Dawn sees him as unique, there aren't other vamps like him she tells the SITs, but part of that is the soul, but it's "not just the soul". I can live with that. I'm definite he needs it but I loved him before he had it too!

    I do still have some concern for the Spike/Buffy of it all and I think there was a little of the angles I dislike post S6 when Buffy is somewhat made to diminish what happened in Seeing Red. Not feeling the impact of the soul as a clear plus, even allowing for reservations, was also accompanied by taking on the heavier burden for the 'dumb stuff' that happened between them and I don't like that. And as much as I adore the Spike/Dawn, Spike/Buffy is too secondary and reduced from what canon gave I felt as the emphasis goes to what Dawn is doing for him and Buffy's doubt/absence. It's Dawn that offers her blood to heal him and that's a big symbolic gesture which just emphasised where the weight of the story was. I hope the sequels have a bit more Spike/Buffy, although I may come to regret that depending on if/where they continue with their processing of S6.

    The sense of blame Buffy feels isn't out of character for her to feel like that for sure, but it is so difficult when it comes to S6 Spike/Buffy if there is that feeling that SR is being brushed over by using this from her. My gut feeling is that the author and I disagree on the extent to which the soul is needed. The, not uncommon in fanfic, question post soul of whether Buffy just having appreciating him more may have resulted in a different situation is something I struggle to enjoy seeing explored as an alternative. I've sometimes seen Spike/Buffy fans being accused of being rape apologists to want them together at all post S6, but I think that this just removes the meaning in-verse of the soul and so strips context from them having a relationship afterwards personally. Spike's action of getting souled is the attack being treated seriously imo. But I can see why this is sometimes felt when Buffy is depicted as being correct to take the greatest responsibility for the bad they had between them and not feeling there was a need for Spike's to be souled post S6/SR. So the chance that may play a part more clearly/blatantly in what is to come makes me wary and is likely why I didn't read on to the sequels the first time I read this story. But I still love this fic as it stands and I will read on this time. I hope that the soul isn't reduced in the narrative and that perhaps the appreciation for him souled, the difference it makes to their relationship and what they can be together, is in there instead in the ongoing story.

    I liked Spike's reservation about talking to Buffy at the end. I liked the tag/playfulness they shared but felt the restart of their relationship was too straight forward and sudden. They haven't spent the time together in this AU as they did in canon and I really liked that the caring and support through S7 came without reactivating a physical relationship. To have less of one but the inclusion of the other is a bit meh for me. That he opened up to her about the dream he'd never told Dawn about felt significant and it could be a good indicator of the new 'them' they are starting. Despite my reservations about how Buffy is being written to view his soul, I do want to see where Nan Dibble takes it.

    Is anyone else reading the sequels to this?? I think flow was, but I can't remember if she had stopped. If no one else is I won't keep chatting about them as I read them and I'm happy to try and read something else alongside with everyone else as well. Goodness knows what speed that would create though.





    EDIT: I've just seen your post flow. I'm happy to go with a different fic before I read Blood Kin, one of the shorter Sigyn ones perhaps or something else entirely, what did you have in mind? I don't think it matters that someone else suggests the next personally.
    Last edited by Stoney; 14-01-18 at 08:18 PM.

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  18. #131
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    I'm ready for a new fic!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've found a fic to put forward: old man spike a Champions work is never done by loup noir I'm suggesting it because it has the symbol beside it that means it won an award, it's a new author for our group and we've read a few fics set in the past so this one is 10 years after chosen.


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    I'm willing and able, although it isn't a fic I would have chosen based on the blurb.

    The ribbons on Elysian Fields aren't awards btw, they are featured stories that they're saying are worth looking at (blue are the current ones, red the previous ones). Pfeifferpack selects the featured stories, but I've no idea what criteria it is on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoney View Post
    I'm willing and able, although it isn't a fic I would have chosen based on the blurb.

    The ribbons on Elysian Fields aren't awards btw, they are featured stories that they're saying are worth looking at (blue are the current ones, red the previous ones). Pfeifferpack selects the featured stories, but I've no idea what criteria it is on.
    I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip! I've been mostly choosing based on those ribbons. I'll read almost anything. All I ask is lots of spuffy.


    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip! I've been mostly choosing based on those ribbons. I'll read almost anything. All I ask is lots of spuffy.
    I only found out by searching the FAQs because I wanted to know that the difference was between the blue and red ribbons. I'd assumed too that they were some sort of award. I suspect the selection is based on personal preference a little but probably correlates to how many reads or reviews the stories get. It's just a guess.

    Okay so I read the first two chapters of Old Man Spike, and am pretty unimpressed at the moment. Some slight spoilery comments below in the tag if you want to know specifics. As my comments below conclude, I'm happy to either ditch it at this if others aren't interested in reading it or I'll stick with it longer, adjust my expectations now I know where it's likely to be going and see if that improves the read. But I'll wait to hear whether others are going to go with it or not.

    Spoiler:
    Taking a tangent so late on in the series and then rewriting things like Spike never hurt children despite what he says at different parts in both shows is maybe a good indicator that canon characterisation isn't going to be a priority for the author I think. I didn't see the need to try to do this unless the difference of the soul isn't believed in and the writer is wanting to limit how 'evil' Spike was unsouled. And within a couple of paragraphs of that we then have him talking about punching Buffy in the nose for making him believe the soul was so important. I assume with the guys attacking the girl that humans are going to be the bad guys in the fic and that is why the author has gone off canon characterisation on these two points. But it's frustrating writing because it is totally unnecessary and weakens his character development for me.

    The show never shied away from showing that humans did evil things too. The point is that they had a choice based on full moral and emotional understanding which Spike lacked unsouled. As Spike himself says, he isn't learning anything new about humanity so the story isn't selling the negative outlook and the lack of appreciation of the difference the soul gave from his unsouled self, even if humans themselves remain weak and capable of awful crimes. The example of the group attacking the women outside the bar which apparently had created this eye-opening moment I just can't see as being so evil and violent a sight for him that he re-evaluated his unsouled self in comparison and felt the soul didn't add much. I can see the argument that the evil committed in full knowledge of what you are choosing to do is a degree worse, but that doesn't change the lack of capacity to reliably make the right choice being unsouled left him with.

    I also had to eye-roll at the wish fulfilment of Spike retaining a great degree of perks of being a vampire even though he/Angel had both been shanshu'd. Fics love going down this route.

    To be at least positive on something, I did like the writing that Spike had gained patience with his age and I'm all for seeing him showing care and support for someone with the girl he just rescued, so I'll keep reading if others are going to. I'll just adjust my expectations based on how AU it seems to be writing him and roll with it. But equally, I wouldn't mind ditching it at this point if noone else fancies it.
    Last edited by Stoney; 15-01-18 at 02:49 PM.

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    I trust you STONEY. Maybe some one else should pick


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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    I trust you STONEY. Maybe some one else should pick
    I feel bad now for putting you off a story that you fancied. Plus, it's just my assumption and impression of what the gist of the story is going to be, I've been very wrong in the past. The first two chapters were clearly very much about set up and these aspects might be rarely commented on in the rest, even though it seems clearly part of the background structure.

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    By the way @priceless, have you finished The Butterfly Effect yet ? What did you think about it ?
    I've not managed to finish it yet flow, but hopefully I will today or tomorrow and post my thoughts then

    My responses to it in the main contrast to how Priceless found it, although I agree on the lack of Spike/Buffy. I still really like this fic though, possibly even more on a reread to be honest. But I think this is perhaps because I was prepared for not loving the Spike/Buffy of it but still adored the Spike/Dawn enough to want to read it again. I also really like how well a great deal of it fits in alongside canon. But I have some strong reservations in the characterisation of Buffy and some of where it went with her/Spike, even though I think the characterisation of Dawn and Spike was really, really great. There aren't many fics that write Spike/Dawn so well I don't think and Dawn, her smarts, her determination and the effects from her sense of otherness are great parts of it too that make her really recognisable throughout. So despite there being things I don't like about it which do have an impact, I still have to give it 7.5/10.
    I'm glad you've finished Stoney and that you enjoyed it. I liked Dawn to a point, but her doing the Harry Potter magic was just a step too far, and I just can't imagine her spitting in the peach schnapps I think because you've read this before and knew what to expect, you weren't so put off by Dawn's antics and the lack of Spuffy.

    So yeah, this is very much a Spike and a Spike/Dawn story really, but as a Spike centric fan I'm still pretty happy seeing more of what S7 may have held for him. I actually really liked seeing Spike wanting to track down and dust the vamps that he sired. They're problems he had unknowingly created and released, I think it makes sense that he would. I don't think this overwrites Sleeper Priceless because we started the story with Buffy retrieving him in Showtime, which comes after. I just picture this as running alongside canon. So as pieces of memories are returning to him post the Sleeper disruption when he finally recalled killing, he's just trying to sort through it all and figure out who the others he sired were. It's totally plausible I think that there could have been more than those Buffy saw in the basement with him, the woman in the bronze and Holden weren't there either after all.
    For me Sleeper was about Buffy rescuing Spike ag. Spike figured out what he'd done, but it was Buffy who dusted those vamps, and Buffy's blood that bought Spike back to reality. Spike was not the hero of that story, Buffy was and I felt the writer undermined Buffy's strength and compassion, by writing Spike killing those vamps. Buffy had to kill them to realise what Spike had done, and to still forgive him.

    Kennedy's attack on Spike, his injuries saving Kennedy
    I like Kennedy, and it really bothered me that the writer was making a girl the baddie. I know Kennedy isn't well liked, but she's a girl, a potential and I really couldn't get on board with her being so anti-Spike as to put everyone's lives in danger. In canon Kennedy is the strongest and most determined fighter, it just felt so out of character for her to do anything she was written as doing. Writing a potential as the bad-guy just undermines the whole theme and meaning of S7 imo.

    I am pleased you enjoyed in Stoney, and I hope I didn't sound too dismissive of it because I think anyone who writes is amazing, and there is scope in the buffyverse for all kinds of writing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    I'm ready for a new fic!

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    I've found a fic to put forward: old man spike a Champions work is never done by loup noir I'm suggesting it because it has the symbol beside it that means it won an award, it's a new author for our group and we've read a few fics set in the past so this one is 10 years after chosen.
    I've only read one of her stories and don't remember it well, so I'm happy to give this one a go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    I'm glad you've finished Stoney and that you enjoyed it. I liked Dawn to a point, but her doing the Harry Potter magic was just a step too far, and I just can't imagine her spitting in the peach schnapps I think because you've read this before and knew what to expect, you weren't so put off by Dawn's antics and the lack of Spuffy.
    I thought spitting in the drink as a sign of anger but wanting to give him something to help him settle and deal with what he was going through was very Dawn. It's always funny to see where we diverge on things.

    For me Sleeper was about Buffy rescuing Spike ag. Spike figured out what he'd done, but it was Buffy who dusted those vamps, and Buffy's blood that bought Spike back to reality. Spike was not the hero of that story, Buffy was and I felt the writer undermined Buffy's strength and compassion, by writing Spike killing those vamps. Buffy had to kill them to realise what Spike had done, and to still forgive him.
    But I don't think this story overwrites any of that. What I was saying is that I think this goes on after Sleeper (she saves him in Showtime at the start of the story which is post Sleeper). So all the events of Sleeper stand untouched before this fic starts. This is just Spike remembering/realising the others that he was used to sire after the memories that were released in Sleeper are considered. So he is just clearing up further debris effectively. Buffy would still have dealt with everyone in the basement, shown her compassion and her instinct not to dust him. But not everyone was there (we know that because Holden wasn't and the woman in the bronze he spoke to before calling Buffy wasn't). So I don't think it spoils any of Sleeper, it's just Spike trying to make sure that everyone he sired is accounted for afterwards.

    I like Kennedy, and it really bothered me that the writer was making a girl the baddie. I know Kennedy isn't well liked, but she's a girl, a potential and I really couldn't get on board with her being so anti-Spike as to put everyone's lives in danger. In canon Kennedy is the strongest and most determined fighter, it just felt so out of character for her to do anything she was written as doing. Writing a potential as the bad-guy just undermines the whole theme and meaning of S7 imo.
    Again I don't think she was written that way. The others were frustrated with her attitude but I think that is canon. When she was not doing as Spike asked she wasn't trying to be bad, she was being pig headed about what she wanted to do in the mission. Again I felt it was in-character and believable that she wouldn't want to take instructions from a vamp. I suppose the big difference is that I just didn't see it as her being presented as a baddie.

    I am pleased you enjoyed in Stoney, and I hope I didn't sound too dismissive of it because I think anyone who writes is amazing, and there is scope in the buffyverse for all kinds of writing.
    That's no problem at all Pricey, we don't all react the same to the different fics/characterisations etc. It certainly isn't the first time we've felt differently about a story and I'm sure it won't be the last.

    I've only read one of her stories and don't remember it well, so I'm happy to give this one a go
    I'm happy to continue with it if there are others that want to read it.

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    But I don't think this story overwrites any of that. What I was saying is that I think this goes on after Sleeper (she saves him in Showtime at the start of the story which is post Sleeper). So all the events of Sleeper stand untouched before this fic starts. This is just Spike remembering/realising the others that he was used to sire after the memories that were released in Sleeper are considered. So he is just clearing up further debris effectively. Buffy would still have dealt with everyone in the basement, shown her compassion and her instinct not to dust him. But not everyone was there (we know that because Holden wasn't and the woman in the bronze he spoke to before calling Buffy wasn't). So I don't think it spoils any of Sleeper, it's just Spike trying to make sure that everyone he sired is accounted for afterwards.
    From that perspective I see that it works, but it doesn't do much for me. I loved Sleeper, and this fic undermines all the good stuff that was in that episode. Spike was too incapacitated at this point, both mentally and physically to go after vampires. I liked that Buffy foiled the Firsts plans, and that Spike was reliant on her.

    Again I don't think she was written that way. The others were frustrated with her attitude but I think that is canon. When she was not doing as Spike asked she wasn't trying to be bad, she was being pig headed about what she wanted to do in the mission. Again I felt it was in-character and believable that she wouldn't want to take instructions from a vamp. I suppose the big difference is that I just didn't see it as her being presented as a baddie.
    I might be mis-remembering, but wasn't there a scene where Kennedy says she wants Spike to show his 'real face' so she can dust him? She wants to prove he is still a monster. She didn't trust him, she wanted to kill him. For me, it's just character bashing because the writer didn't like Kennedy . . . and I know not many people did like Kennedy

    Lol, it's great that we are so diverse and how dull would it be if we all liked the same things

    I'm happy to continue with it if there are others that want to read it.
    I want to finish The Butterfly Effect first, then I'll start the Loup Noir one. If I really don't like it after a few chapters I probably won't finish it.

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    Just finished The Butterfly Effect and would give it 7/10. I liked the story and the characterisation and the last two chapters were great. Overall I thought it was well written, but lacked a bit of excitement and style and felt a bit clunky, though I did enjoy it and would recommend it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Priceless View Post
    From that perspective I see that it works, but it doesn't do much for me. I loved Sleeper, and this fic undermines all the good stuff that was in that episode. Spike was too incapacitated at this point, both mentally and physically to go after vampires. I liked that Buffy foiled the Firsts plans, and that Spike was reliant on her.
    Spike is suffering physically/mentally from The First and the torture of Showtime at the beginning of the fic and that is a big part of why he is struggling to even attempt to get the last vamps. There is some open support from Buffy (the bar scene hand hold) and that is part of what helps him through. They are just the last few stragglers, some caught by the potentials on patrol and then finished by the potentials and Dawn. As you say, Buffy had already foiled The First's plans in Sleeper by breaking through to Spike. I think where it comes to Sleeper we'll have to agree to disagree because I don't think it affects it at all.

    However, as I said, the Spike/Buffy of the fic is something I do see as a major weak point. Her attitude towards his soul/him generally just isn't right and it felt so much 'less' compared to the open loving support she gave him in canon, boosting his confidence and giving him her belief in him. I'm certainly never going to be arguing that the Spuffy in Old Blood is good enough, it's the most disappointing thing about it. Plus the trigger/siring stuff that walks over LMPTM.

    I might be mis-remembering, but wasn't there a scene where Kennedy says she wants Spike to show his 'real face' so she can dust him? She wants to prove he is still a monster. She didn't trust him, she wanted to kill him. For me, it's just character bashing because the writer didn't like Kennedy . . . and I know not many people did like Kennedy
    She was saying he didn't turn when he was getting injured saving her, but I hadn't thought that was to have the excuse to dust him so much as that she had incidentally wanted to prove that he was still a monster that way and had just been shocked when he didn't turn whilst enduring the pain he must have in saving her. But I can see your point.

    Lol, it's great that we are so diverse and how dull would it be if we all liked the same things
    Ha, I suppose. The thing with fanfic always is that individual mix of aspects you don't like to see changed and things you enjoy seeing explored. We don't disagree that these characters are incredible and we probably don't disagree that we'd not take any of the fics over actual canon, they are just interesting diversions.

    I want to finish The Butterfly Effect first, then I'll start the Loup Noir one. If I really don't like it after a few chapters I probably won't finish it.
    I'll assume we're going to give it a go and will stick a link on the first post for jumping to it.

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