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Thread: Joss's ex wife spills the beans.....

  1. #121
    Bronze Party-Goer GoSpuffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula1400 View Post
    because he was the boss of most of the women he bedded, making him a predator. All the time, he was touting his feminism, while using his position to get laid.
    This is my problem with the situation. People cheat, men and women. If the partners don't like it they end the relationship and move on. This is between the two people in the relationship to navigate and it's no one else's business.

    However, anyone in a position of authority over someone else while having a sexual relationship with them is wrong. If they both want to participate in such a relationship they need to end their work ties first. Youve got to think Joss could have found any number of women whose livelihoods was not affected by him to sleep with.
    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    All caught up It seems you don't know what a development deal is. Eliza Dushku 'simply' needed to get a TV series greenlit for Fox Television. From what I remember, Eliza was struggling to get that to happen and then called Joss up to buy him lunch and talk about doing a TV series together because she had a development deal with Fox.

    Tru Calling didn't last long and it's likely Faith the Vampire Slayer would have lasted longer.
    Or, or... that you don't. Because that was my whole point -- her deal could have been better spent on a different concept show with a different showrunner or production company for Fox and yielded better results -- some procedural detective show they could have paired with, say, "Bones" for a ratings push. Fox TV didn't give her a deal that required her to go with a indecipherably high concept fringe sci-fi project with Joss/Mutant Enemy, that was her idea to go to him and it went badly for her career because it was ultimately a pretty mediocre show, or at least only drew a mediocre audience. The ameliorating point I made was that if Joss doesn't use her on "Buffy"/"Angel" she probably doesn't get that development deal so she was probably trying to pay Joss back for the boost.

    EDIT: Mike if you want to discuss politics there is a forum for that.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 07-02-18 at 03:03 PM.

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  4. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    This is my problem with the situation. People cheat, men and women. If the partners don't like it they end the relationship and move on. This is between the two people in the relationship to navigate and it's no one else's business.

    However, anyone in a position of authority over someone else while having a sexual relationship with them is wrong. If they both want to participate in such a relationship they need to end their work ties first. Youve got to think Joss could have found any number of women whose livelihoods was not affected by him to sleep with.
    Why do you think that he could? He's average to below average looking middle-aged man. Yes he's well-known and probably quite wealthy , but that are big bonuses for a single man, not for a guy looking for affair. At least not for affair with Hollywood-grade looking woman. And there're no reasons to think that he even looked for such affairs. I, as absolutely all other here, can only speculate, but from what we know, I think he probably haven't even initiated those affairs. He's very talented guy and some woman working with him could fall in love with him. Being in position of power also helps. Not even using it, mind you, just having power is a big plus to desirability of a man. He probably was very surprised by that effect himself (his words about needy, aggressive women). Could I blame him for falling for that? I could, but it would be hypocritical from my side, as I definitely would do the same. Same as 99% of men population (or women if roles were switched here). As disclaimer I am not trying to put blame on someone, I'm just thinking that what he's done is just basic human behavior. Behavior of a flawed human of course, but we all are. Or at least almost all.

    Ending work relations for having extra matrimonial affair sounds a little strange for me. Why should he do that? Because some third party who shouldn't know about that affair in the first place would be judgmental about that bunch of years later? There was no conflict of interest here as either he used his power or not. If he used it that completely different, criminal case here. And if he didn't that's between him and woman he slept with. In neither case I think it was necessary.
    Last edited by Alce; 13-02-18 at 09:22 PM.

  5. #124
    Bronze Party-Goer GoSpuffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alce View Post
    Why do you think that he could? He's average to below average looking middle-aged man. Yes he's well-known and probably quite wealthy , but that are big bonuses for a single man, not for a guy looking for affair. At least not for affair with Hollywood-grade looking woman. And there're no reasons to think that he even looked for such affairs. I, as absolutely all other here, can only speculate, but from what we know, I think he probably haven't even initiated those affairs. He's very talented guy and some woman working with him could fall in love with him. Being in position of power also helps. Not even using it, mind you, just having power is a big plus to desirability of a man. He probably was very surprised by that effect himself (his words about needy, aggressive women). Could I blame him for falling for that? I could, but it would be hypocritical from my side, as I definitely would do the same. Same as 99% of men population (or women if roles were switched here). As disclaimer I am not trying to put blame on someone, I'm just thinking that what he's done is just basic human behavior. Behavior of a flawed human of course, but we all are. Or at least almost all.

    Ending work relations for having extra matrimonial affair sounds a little strange for me. Why should he do that? Because some third party who shouldn't know about that affair in the first place would be judgmental about that bunch of years later? There was no conflict of interest here as either he used his power or not. If he used it that completely different, criminal case here. And if he didn't that's between him and woman he slept with. In neither case I think it was necessary.
    A boss sleeping with an employee is the same as a teacher sleeping with a student. It's wrong. The boss or the teacher might think that it is a consenual relationship but the employee or student might feel they are being forced into to continue receiving their pay cheque or to pass the course. They may feel afraid to say no to the person in the power position.

    Joss was rich and famous, he could have found any number of partners if he simply wanted an affair, he didn't have to use his clout on the set over people who may have felt they couldn't say no. If someone was coming on to him to try and use the relationship for better lines, more air time, etc that's wrong too and it's Joss who can say no and keep the integrity of the work site clean. Even if he is approached by a "needy, aggressive woman" and he has an affair with her she can still accuse him of improper behaviour if things don't end up going her way. And by the way, just because Joss is describing them as "needy and aggressive" that doesn't mean that's how it went down. People tell their stories to put themselves in the best possible light.
    I like who I am when Im with him. I like who we are together.

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  7. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    A boss sleeping with an employee is the same as a teacher sleeping with a student. It's wrong. The boss or the teacher might think that it is a consenual relationship but the employee or student might feel they are being forced into to continue receiving their pay cheque or to pass the course. They may feel afraid to say no to the person in the power position.
    Not the same. Latter is always explicitly prohibited. Former usually isn't. And I very much doubt that Joss cant see if something consensual or not. My hook-ups in my younger age usually haven't included much verbal communication at all. You can see if woman wants you or not. And I'm sure Joss could read other people much better than I.

    Joss was rich and famous, he could have found any number of partners if he simply wanted an affair, he didn't have to use his clout on the set over people who may have felt they couldn't say no. If someone was coming on to him to try and use the relationship for better lines, more air time, etc that's wrong too and it's Joss who can say no and keep the integrity of the work site clean. Even if he is approached by a "needy, aggressive woman" and he has an affair with her she can still accuse him of improper behaviour if things don't end up going her way. And by the way, just because Joss is describing them as "needy and aggressive" that doesn't mean that's how it went down. People tell their stories to put themselves in the best possible light.

    Again, not this kind of partners, and again there's no reason to believe that he wanted to. No reason to think that someone was using him also. There's nothing strange with being attracted to talented, powerful man, it doesn't mean that you want to use him. She could accuse, but guess what? She didn't. We don't even know who this she or them are. And unless they give us their view on that matter I see no reason not to believe Joss. Same with "needy and aggressive" - we don't chose if we believe one side or another, because there's only one side that we have now. If you want to think that Joss is lying without any proves to support that, that's fine by me. If someone want to have bias, it's their choice.
    Last edited by Alce; 14-02-18 at 11:51 AM.

  8. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    A boss sleeping with an employee is the same as a teacher sleeping with a student. It's wrong. The boss or the teacher might think that it is a consenual relationship but the employee or student might feel they are being forced into to continue receiving their pay cheque or to pass the course. They may feel afraid to say no to the person in the power position.
    Since Harvey Weinstein was exposed, there has been a landslide of accusations against a number of powerful men in Hollywood regarding sexual harassment (and in some cases attempted rape or rape) by the victims and other people who witnessed such behavior. You may have noticed that there haven't been any against Joss Whedon. Of course, it's still possible someone will come forward and accuse Whedon of sexual harassment as well. But if no one does, maybe, just maybe the women he had affairs did did not feel pressured or forced into anything, but felt they were consenting adults exercising their sexual agency, and maybe other people worked with/for him also never thought he was sexually harassing anyone, or that he has passed them over or given them less advantage because they turned him down or because he wasn't that into them?

    So far, the only accusations we've seen have been... from people on this forum and others on social networks who have had absolutely no contact with Whedon or anyone who worked for/with him. Not even Whedon's wife was able to accuse him of anything but cheating on her, and writing some douchy things in a letter. It would be really strange and surprising if Whedon was this major sexual predator, but this completely was unknown and undetected (and these things tend to be known - that's what we're hearing now, that "everyone knew" about Weinstein, Spacey etc.), and no one is accusing him even now. There's no way that Joss Whedon is more powerful or untouchable than Harvey Weinstein. Or more famous than Dustin Hoffman or Kevin Spacey. If he had been sexually harassing multiple people for years, I think someone would have accused him publicly by now. We'd be hearing stories we're hearing about the behavior of Andrew Kreisberg (showrunner of The Flash and Supergirl) or Mark Schwahn (showrunner of One Tree Hill) or many others.

    So since no one so far has claimed to be Whedon's victim or to have known someone victimized by Whedon, isn't it more than a little presumptuous for us here to proclaim that some women were his victims, even though there is absolutely no indication that they themselves think they were victimized?

    Frankly, a lot of times this kind of outrage starts looking like good old sexual puritanism coated in nice-sounding modern terminology. If is not, someone please tell me, would this kind of scrutiny be applied to all the cases of Hollywood producers or directors marrying actors who are in their movies, or casting their spouses in their movies? For instance, Frances McDormand has been married to Ethan Coen since 1984 - from the time when she starred in his and his brother's film Blood Simple - and she went on to star in a number of their films - almost every film they've made - winning an Oscar for one of them (Fargo). Does this mean that Coen sexually harassed/has been sexually harassing McDormand for 34 years? Was he a "teacher" and McDormand was a "student" he married? Did she feel pressured to marry him and then stay married to him so she could keep getting roles in their films?
    Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 14-02-18 at 02:26 AM.
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  10. #127
    What? KingofCretins's Avatar
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    Whatever paramours he is meant to have had per Kai's accusation sort of defy easy classification, since if they aren't victims, than we're left to infer that they are benefiting from his patronage (as have ingenues and various eager souls in theatre and screen for time out of mind). I don't think, though, we want to condemn them for that so it's slightly more tasteful to condescend to them as victims. Of course, we're also at our own devices to even wonder who Kai has in mind with her accusations, let alone the merit of those accusations. His actors? His writers? Craft services? I'd be surprised if there isn't a subreddit somewhere with a betting pool, but thus far, nobody has corroborated anything she claimed. Nor, though, do I think he ever publicly refuted the claim, but I can't remember -- he has been such a crazy pants for a while I tend not to go looking for him.

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