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Thread: Joss's ex wife spills the beans.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula1400 View Post
    because he was the boss of most of the women he bedded, making him a predator. All the time, he was touting his feminism, while using his position to get laid.
    This is my problem with the situation. People cheat, men and women. If the partners don't like it they end the relationship and move on. This is between the two people in the relationship to navigate and it's no one else's business.

    However, anyone in a position of authority over someone else while having a sexual relationship with them is wrong. If they both want to participate in such a relationship they need to end their work ties first. Youve got to think Joss could have found any number of women whose livelihoods was not affected by him to sleep with.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeB View Post
    All caught up It seems you don't know what a development deal is. Eliza Dushku 'simply' needed to get a TV series greenlit for Fox Television. From what I remember, Eliza was struggling to get that to happen and then called Joss up to buy him lunch and talk about doing a TV series together because she had a development deal with Fox.

    Tru Calling didn't last long and it's likely Faith the Vampire Slayer would have lasted longer.
    Or, or... that you don't. Because that was my whole point -- her deal could have been better spent on a different concept show with a different showrunner or production company for Fox and yielded better results -- some procedural detective show they could have paired with, say, "Bones" for a ratings push. Fox TV didn't give her a deal that required her to go with a indecipherably high concept fringe sci-fi project with Joss/Mutant Enemy, that was her idea to go to him and it went badly for her career because it was ultimately a pretty mediocre show, or at least only drew a mediocre audience. The ameliorating point I made was that if Joss doesn't use her on "Buffy"/"Angel" she probably doesn't get that development deal so she was probably trying to pay Joss back for the boost.

    EDIT: Mike if you want to discuss politics there is a forum for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    This is my problem with the situation. People cheat, men and women. If the partners don't like it they end the relationship and move on. This is between the two people in the relationship to navigate and it's no one else's business.

    However, anyone in a position of authority over someone else while having a sexual relationship with them is wrong. If they both want to participate in such a relationship they need to end their work ties first. Youve got to think Joss could have found any number of women whose livelihoods was not affected by him to sleep with.
    Why do you think that he could? He's average to below average looking middle-aged man. Yes he's well-known and probably quite wealthy , but that are big bonuses for a single man, not for a guy looking for affair. At least not for affair with Hollywood-grade looking woman. And there're no reasons to think that he even looked for such affairs. I, as absolutely all other here, can only speculate, but from what we know, I think he probably haven't even initiated those affairs. He's very talented guy and some woman working with him could fall in love with him. Being in position of power also helps. Not even using it, mind you, just having power is a big plus to desirability of a man. He probably was very surprised by that effect himself (his words about needy, aggressive women). Could I blame him for falling for that? I could, but it would be hypocritical from my side, as I definitely would do the same. Same as 99% of men population (or women if roles were switched here). As disclaimer I am not trying to put blame on someone, I'm just thinking that what he's done is just basic human behavior. Behavior of a flawed human of course, but we all are. Or at least almost all.

    Ending work relations for having extra matrimonial affair sounds a little strange for me. Why should he do that? Because some third party who shouldn't know about that affair in the first place would be judgmental about that bunch of years later? There was no conflict of interest here as either he used his power or not. If he used it that completely different, criminal case here. And if he didn't that's between him and woman he slept with. In neither case I think it was necessary.
    Last edited by Alce; 13-02-18 at 08:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alce View Post
    Why do you think that he could? He's average to below average looking middle-aged man. Yes he's well-known and probably quite wealthy , but that are big bonuses for a single man, not for a guy looking for affair. At least not for affair with Hollywood-grade looking woman. And there're no reasons to think that he even looked for such affairs. I, as absolutely all other here, can only speculate, but from what we know, I think he probably haven't even initiated those affairs. He's very talented guy and some woman working with him could fall in love with him. Being in position of power also helps. Not even using it, mind you, just having power is a big plus to desirability of a man. He probably was very surprised by that effect himself (his words about needy, aggressive women). Could I blame him for falling for that? I could, but it would be hypocritical from my side, as I definitely would do the same. Same as 99% of men population (or women if roles were switched here). As disclaimer I am not trying to put blame on someone, I'm just thinking that what he's done is just basic human behavior. Behavior of a flawed human of course, but we all are. Or at least almost all.

    Ending work relations for having extra matrimonial affair sounds a little strange for me. Why should he do that? Because some third party who shouldn't know about that affair in the first place would be judgmental about that bunch of years later? There was no conflict of interest here as either he used his power or not. If he used it that completely different, criminal case here. And if he didn't that's between him and woman he slept with. In neither case I think it was necessary.
    A boss sleeping with an employee is the same as a teacher sleeping with a student. It's wrong. The boss or the teacher might think that it is a consenual relationship but the employee or student might feel they are being forced into to continue receiving their pay cheque or to pass the course. They may feel afraid to say no to the person in the power position.

    Joss was rich and famous, he could have found any number of partners if he simply wanted an affair, he didn't have to use his clout on the set over people who may have felt they couldn't say no. If someone was coming on to him to try and use the relationship for better lines, more air time, etc that's wrong too and it's Joss who can say no and keep the integrity of the work site clean. Even if he is approached by a "needy, aggressive woman" and he has an affair with her she can still accuse him of improper behaviour if things don't end up going her way. And by the way, just because Joss is describing them as "needy and aggressive" that doesn't mean that's how it went down. People tell their stories to put themselves in the best possible light.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    A boss sleeping with an employee is the same as a teacher sleeping with a student. It's wrong. The boss or the teacher might think that it is a consenual relationship but the employee or student might feel they are being forced into to continue receiving their pay cheque or to pass the course. They may feel afraid to say no to the person in the power position.
    Not the same. Latter is always explicitly prohibited. Former usually isn't. And I very much doubt that Joss cant see if something consensual or not. My hook-ups in my younger age usually haven't included much verbal communication at all. You can see if woman wants you or not. And I'm sure Joss could read other people much better than I.

    Joss was rich and famous, he could have found any number of partners if he simply wanted an affair, he didn't have to use his clout on the set over people who may have felt they couldn't say no. If someone was coming on to him to try and use the relationship for better lines, more air time, etc that's wrong too and it's Joss who can say no and keep the integrity of the work site clean. Even if he is approached by a "needy, aggressive woman" and he has an affair with her she can still accuse him of improper behaviour if things don't end up going her way. And by the way, just because Joss is describing them as "needy and aggressive" that doesn't mean that's how it went down. People tell their stories to put themselves in the best possible light.

    Again, not this kind of partners, and again there's no reason to believe that he wanted to. No reason to think that someone was using him also. There's nothing strange with being attracted to talented, powerful man, it doesn't mean that you want to use him. She could accuse, but guess what? She didn't. We don't even know who this she or them are. And unless they give us their view on that matter I see no reason not to believe Joss. Same with "needy and aggressive" - we don't chose if we believe one side or another, because there's only one side that we have now. If you want to think that Joss is lying without any proves to support that, that's fine by me. If someone want to have bias, it's their choice.
    Last edited by Alce; 14-02-18 at 10:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    A boss sleeping with an employee is the same as a teacher sleeping with a student. It's wrong. The boss or the teacher might think that it is a consenual relationship but the employee or student might feel they are being forced into to continue receiving their pay cheque or to pass the course. They may feel afraid to say no to the person in the power position.
    Since Harvey Weinstein was exposed, there has been a landslide of accusations against a number of powerful men in Hollywood regarding sexual harassment (and in some cases attempted rape or rape) by the victims and other people who witnessed such behavior. You may have noticed that there haven't been any against Joss Whedon. Of course, it's still possible someone will come forward and accuse Whedon of sexual harassment as well. But if no one does, maybe, just maybe the women he had affairs did did not feel pressured or forced into anything, but felt they were consenting adults exercising their sexual agency, and maybe other people worked with/for him also never thought he was sexually harassing anyone, or that he has passed them over or given them less advantage because they turned him down or because he wasn't that into them?

    So far, the only accusations we've seen have been... from people on this forum and others on social networks who have had absolutely no contact with Whedon or anyone who worked for/with him. Not even Whedon's wife was able to accuse him of anything but cheating on her, and writing some douchy things in a letter. It would be really strange and surprising if Whedon was this major sexual predator, but this completely was unknown and undetected (and these things tend to be known - that's what we're hearing now, that "everyone knew" about Weinstein, Spacey etc.), and no one is accusing him even now. There's no way that Joss Whedon is more powerful or untouchable than Harvey Weinstein. Or more famous than Dustin Hoffman or Kevin Spacey. If he had been sexually harassing multiple people for years, I think someone would have accused him publicly by now. We'd be hearing stories we're hearing about the behavior of Andrew Kreisberg (showrunner of The Flash and Supergirl) or Mark Schwahn (showrunner of One Tree Hill) or many others.

    So since no one so far has claimed to be Whedon's victim or to have known someone victimized by Whedon, isn't it more than a little presumptuous for us here to proclaim that some women were his victims, even though there is absolutely no indication that they themselves think they were victimized?

    Frankly, a lot of times this kind of outrage starts looking like good old sexual puritanism coated in nice-sounding modern terminology. If is not, someone please tell me, would this kind of scrutiny be applied to all the cases of Hollywood producers or directors marrying actors who are in their movies, or casting their spouses in their movies? For instance, Frances McDormand has been married to Ethan Coen since 1984 - from the time when she starred in his and his brother's film Blood Simple - and she went on to star in a number of their films - almost every film they've made - winning an Oscar for one of them (Fargo). Does this mean that Coen sexually harassed/has been sexually harassing McDormand for 34 years? Was he a "teacher" and McDormand was a "student" he married? Did she feel pressured to marry him and then stay married to him so she could keep getting roles in their films?
    Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 14-02-18 at 01:26 AM.
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    Whatever paramours he is meant to have had per Kai's accusation sort of defy easy classification, since if they aren't victims, than we're left to infer that they are benefiting from his patronage (as have ingenues and various eager souls in theatre and screen for time out of mind). I don't think, though, we want to condemn them for that so it's slightly more tasteful to condescend to them as victims. Of course, we're also at our own devices to even wonder who Kai has in mind with her accusations, let alone the merit of those accusations. His actors? His writers? Craft services? I'd be surprised if there isn't a subreddit somewhere with a betting pool, but thus far, nobody has corroborated anything she claimed. Nor, though, do I think he ever publicly refuted the claim, but I can't remember -- he has been such a crazy pants for a while I tend not to go looking for him.

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    Consent and coercion are odd things when you have a lot of power over someone you might want to sleep with.

    So, his behavior may not rise to 'coercive', but maybe more to 'unethical' or kind of 'icky'. Basically, I see him as part of the problem even without actual well defined harassment. Maybe a tiny cog in the problem, but part of the system designed to keep women (half of the planet) in their 'place' - which is less than the place of men. It doesn't really surprise me that nearly ALL the most successful and richest alumni of the jossverse are male. That's partly because the wider world has been set up for their benefit... but frankly, by the time they were done with the Jossverse, several of the females were burned out or just 'burned' by the experience. SMG and CC being the two that come to mind. Allyson has done well, but she had a successful career before her excursions into the jossverse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I believe a man who consistently sleeps with subordinates is being predatory and unethical. If he were a hot single man and women were throwing themselves at him, that would be a but murkier, but in the case of a married man, it begins to look like he's exploiting his power to 'get some'.

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    The movie business is just that, business. You don't see bank presidents sleeping with the tellers or school principals sleeping with the teachers or sales managers sleeping with the reps, at least you shouldn't. Many firms have actual HR rules to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen. It's not because sex is bad. It's because it is problematic in the work force
    . Some people might feel the person in the relationship is getting special treatment even if they are not, some people might say they are consenting but it's because they are afraid of losing their job if they don't consent. It's inappropriate in the work place. Its exactly the Clinton lewinsky situation but with actors and producers instead of politicians. I'm sure Monica was a willing participant but she was so much younger and less experienced and bill should have known he was taking advantage of her admiration of him. It's wrong for presidents to sleep with interns and for directors and producers to sleep with actors, writers, food truck workers and stage hands.


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    Yes - it's wrong. That doesn't mean that any woman who has an affair or a relationship with a powerful man is being victimized.

    Back in the early 60's Gene Roddenberry was married - and sleeping with both Majel Barret and Nichelle Nichols. This was before Star Trek was picked up. He wanted to stay with both in an open relationship, but Nichols encouraged him to marry Barret. Years later i came out that he and Nichols continued their affair. It would be so easy to cast her - a WOC, and an aspiring actress - as a victim of a powerful producer. The truth as she sees it is that he was her best friend, and someone she will always love.

    Yes - Whedon apparently had affairs - though it seems to me that an emotional affair is a word for a close friendship. Yes, Kai felt betrayed. She had every reason to.

    But to assume that any woman who has a consensual relationship with a powerful man is being victimized in some way kinda disempowers and slut shames her at the same time. I am not saying that women are not victimized by men in power - clearly they are. But not all women - not all relationships. I've been waiting for the crap to hit the fan ever since Weinstein was finally held to account . To me it is telling that not one woman has accused Whedon of using her.

    Given that they split up 5 years before Kai Cole published her piece - and that they have 2 young teenage kids - I gotta say my sympathy for her is limited. To do that to your kids is really wrong. As a teacher, I have dealt with parents who were so concerned about getting revenge they humiliated their kids. Gotta say - it ain't pretty - and it is damaging.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    The movie business is just that, business. You don't see bank presidents sleeping with the tellers or school principals sleeping with the teachers or sales managers sleeping with the reps, at least you shouldn't. Many firms have actual HR rules to make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen. It's not because sex is bad. It's because it is problematic in the work force
    . Some people might feel the person in the relationship is getting special treatment even if they are not, some people might say they are consenting but it's because they are afraid of losing their job if they don't consent. It's inappropriate in the work place. Its exactly the Clinton lewinsky situation but with actors and producers instead of politicians. I'm sure Monica was a willing participant but she was so much younger and less experienced and bill should have known he was taking advantage of her admiration of him. It's wrong for presidents to sleep with interns and for directors and producers to sleep with actors, writers, food truck workers and stage hands.
    Then I guess we should do a big shakeup of the entire film industry and prohibit all those director-actor marriages, past and present, such as:

    Joel Coen and Frances McDormand (already going on for over 3 decades)
    Paul W. Anderson and Milla Jovovich
    Taylor Hackford and Helen Mirren
    Michel Hazanavicius & Bérénice Bejo (he directed her in The Artist)
    Sam Taylor-Johnson and Aaron Taylor-Johnson (reverse gender here, she is a director and he was starring in her movie when they met - as Sam Taylor-Wood and Aaron Johnson and hooked up and then got married. She as 42, he was 19.)

    and formerly
    Tim Burton and Helena Bonham-Carter
    Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon (he is actor/director and directed her in some of his movies)
    Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson
    Kenneth Branagh and Helena Bonham-Carter
    James Cameron and Linda Hamilton (that's right, the feminist icon Sarah Connor was played by an actress who married the director of those movies and they met on the set!)
    Luc Besson and Milla Jovovich
    Sam Mendes and Kate Winslet
    Darren Aronofsky and Rachel Weisz
    Darren Aronofsky and Jennifer Lawrence

    of course there were many more in the past:
    David Lynch and Isabella Rosselini
    Ingmar Bergman and Liv Ullman
    Martin Scorsese and Isabella Rosselini
    Roberto Rosselini and Ingrid Bergman
    Orson Welles and Rita Hayworth
    Charlie Chaplin and Paulette Godard

    There are plenty more.

    What about director-producer or actor-actor marriages and relationships? It gets confusing. Christopher Nolan's wife is his producer, is she harassing him? But he's more famous, so is he harassing her? Who is harassing who?

    What about actors getting together? Big stars are often more influential than directors - in fact, directors aren't even that influential compared to producers. So is the more famous and powerful one only allowed to hook up with someone as famous, or with people completely unrelated to the industry?

    Also, if it's wrong to employ your spouse or lover, is it wrong to employ your relatives or friends? Nolan is always working with his brother Jonathan. Greg Grunberg probably owes his career to the fact he's an old buddy of J.J. Abrams.

    This is kind of starting to make me think of South Park...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7k-H4WbWsI
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    You may be missing the point. The film industry is rife with sexual abuse. Something needs to be done to protect men and women from casting couch situations. The world doesn't change unless you make it. Sometimes laws are needed to facilitate change. Affirmative action laws for POC, equal pay laws, laws to make sure women's sport are funded at the same level as men's. All of these are examples of people saying what is acceptable in our society. It is different to work with someone and be in a relationship with them and to work with someone and want to have sex as part of the exchange of goods and services. And whether youre a person who is comfortable using your body for career advancement or if your in a position of power and you want fringe benefits it's not right. yes, people meet in the workplace, feelings develop but there should be laws in place to protect actors from having sex when they don't want to and tO protect people in power from being sued because someone thought the sex meant more than it did. If consenting adults want to have agreements I'm sure they can find away of signing an agreement that protects both parties or trusting each other to know what the relationship is all about. This isn't about stopping true love it's about protecting people's right to work and not be sexually harassed.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    You may be missing the point. The film industry is rife with sexual abuse. Something needs to be done to protect men and women from casting couch situations. The world doesn't change unless you make it. Sometimes laws are needed to facilitate change. Affirmative action laws for POC, equal pay laws, laws to make sure women's sport are funded at the same level as men's. All of these are examples of people saying what is acceptable in our society. It is different to work with someone and be in a relationship with them and to work with someone and want to have sex as part of the exchange of goods and services. And whether youre a person who is comfortable using your body for career advancement or if your in a position of power and you want fringe benefits it's not right. yes, people meet in the workplace, feelings develop but there should be laws in place to protect actors from having sex when they don't want to and tO protect people in power from being sued because someone thought the sex meant more than it did. If consenting adults want to have agreements I'm sure they can find away of signing an agreement that protects both parties or trusting each other to know what the relationship is all about. This isn't about stopping true love it's about protecting people's right to work and not be sexually harassed.
    You may be missing the point.
    You said that directors should not be in relationships with actors or writers. Quote: "It's wrong for presidents to sleep with interns and for directors and producers to sleep with actors, writers, food truck workers and stage hands." Which is a very broad generalization - and a very odd one, since there are lots of people who are writers, directors, producers and/or actors, at the same time. Lots of actors take up directing and/or producing, lots of famous stars are more powerful than their directors (who are often more like hired hands in Hollywood rather than auteurs), lots of writers are directors at the same time, etc. On TV, directors are much lower on the totem pole than writers, and showrunners tend to be writers and producers. Roles are a bit more complicated.

    And now you're admitting it's not that simple and that there can be such relationships that aren't based on coercion and abuse of power. But how exactly do you decide that something is an abuse of power and position and sexual harassment when there has been no one who has accused them of that? Literally no one, not a single person has made an accusation of sexual harassment against Joss Whedon (except for people on social media who have never met him).

    The laws against sexual harassment already exist. Legislation is not a problem, social climate and pressure has been.
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    My issue is age - no one touches the kids. No time limit on child abuse complaints by victims.

    The teens can touch each other with consent.

    Adults can go to whatever hell they choose in their own carefully crafted hand baskets - touching each other agreed upon.

    No complaint - no foul. This isn't to say that there will not be horrible stuff that a person can't complain about but that there are avenues for anything beyond that (shelters, etc,) and we need to make sure they work. Right now we do have a huge amount of social pressure, and we need to fight back against those who would normalize attacking those who speak up again.

    It weakens the credibility of individual complaints when all or nothing statements are used to try and solve the problem. Interactions are messy - when humans interact there will always be potential problems. There isn't a rule or aphorism that covers all the pitfalls of human interaction.When we're dealing with intimacy, the potential for real hurt is there.

    Once people are of legal age they need to use their words, and they/we need to build culture where they will be listened to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepBlueJoy View Post
    several of the females were burned out or just 'burned' by the experience. SMG and CC being the two that come to mind. Allyson has done well, but she had a successful career before her excursions into the jossverse.
    What's wrong with SMG career? She did have plenty of chances for it outside of Whedonverse. It's not his fault that results were somewhat disappointing. Actually seeing her in roles outside of Buffy I think she would never get so many chances for work without BtVS. She isn't Jodie Foster level of actress for god's sake. She's not even Julia Roberts for that matter.

    And CC? Really? Charisma is one of the most stunningly looking women in Hollywood, but to say that her acting range is limited would be understatement.

    Allyson has done well, wasn't "burned", but what her successful career have to do with that? How successful career could prevent "burning out"? Maybe there's much simpler answer to that. Like her being most talented actress of them all?
    Last edited by Alce; 11-03-18 at 10:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alce View Post
    What's wrong with SMG career? She did have plenty of chances for it outside of Whedonverse. It's not his fault that results were somewhat disappointing. Actually seeing her in roles outside of Buffy I think she would never get so many chances for work without BtVS. She isn't Jodie Foster level of actress for god's sake. She's not even Julia Roberts for that matter.

    And CC? Really? Charisma is one of the most stunningly looking women in Hollywood, but to say that her acting range is limited would be understatement.

    Allyson has done well, wasn't "burned", but what her successful career have to do with that? How successful career could prevent "burning out"? Maybe there's much simpler answer to that. Like her being most talented actress of them all?
    SMG was brilliant as Buffy, but she doesn't seem to care that much for acting career compared to her family and her cooking empire.

    I'm really not seeing how Alyson is supposedly more talented. But she and DB have both been most successful out of the Buffy cast (other than ASH and maybe Michelle) because they were lucky to get cast in successful long-term shows (neither of which particularly challenged them as actors - so it's not like it was due to huge talent). SMG also had shows, but they weren't nearly as successful and got cancelled early.

    I'm also perplexed not just by DPJ's indication that Joss is somehow to blame for anyone's post-Buffy career, but also by the statement that the women of Buffy have been generally less successful than the men.
    You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    SMG was brilliant as Buffy, but she doesn't seem to care that much for acting career compared to her family and her cooking empire.
    Oh, she was. But I think role of Buffy was perfect match for her. She probably doesn't care now, but even her early works like Scooby or that crappy version of dangerous liaisons weren't especially convincing. Admittedly I haven't seen much of her later work. I wanted to watch that series with Robin Williams, but didn't have time at first, then it was cancelled, then was that tragedy.

    I'm really not seeing how Alyson is supposedly more talented. But she and DB have both been most successful out of the Buffy cast (other than ASH and maybe Michelle) because they were lucky to get cast in successful long-term shows (neither of which particularly challenged them as actors - so it's not like it was due to huge talent). SMG also had shows, but they weren't nearly as successful and got cancelled early.
    Maybe I'm biased here, but even in Buffy I liked Allyson acting the most. Her emotions looked so natural. Plus it's not like HIMYM was some sort of lucky exception. She was quite good in everything that I've ever seen.
    Last edited by Alce; 11-03-18 at 11:31 AM.

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    I think that AH and DB were lucky to get parts on shows that the public liked, and went on for many seasons. I imagine when SMG took the role alongside Robin Williams, she imagined that show would be a hit and long-running, but unfortunately it didn't work out like that.

    I have no doubt whatsoever that if SMG told her agent she wanted to concentrate on getting her acting career up and running again, the jobs would come flooding in. I think AH and DB just like to work, while SMG has found other avenues for her creativity.
    Never much cared for picket fences, anyway. Bloody dangerous.

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    All caught up



    GoSpuffy

    However, anyone in a position of authority over someone else while having a sexual relationship with them is wrong. If they both want to participate in such a relationship they need to end their work ties first. Youve got to think Joss could have found any number of women whose livelihoods was not affected by him to sleep with.
    Again, I remember Kai Cole doesn’t imply any “casting couch” situations happened between Joss Whedon and others.



    KingofCretins

    My earlier quote: “It seems you don't know what a development deal is. Eliza Dushku 'simply' needed to get a TV series greenlit for Fox Television. From what I remember, Eliza was struggling to get that to happen and then called Joss up to buy him lunch and talk about doing a TV series together because she had a development deal with Fox.”

    Read that: “Eliza Dushku 'simply' needed to get a TV series greenlit for Fox Television. From what I remember, Eliza was struggling to get that to happen” part again.

    Tru Calling was relatively procedural and it didn’t last.


    * It’s silly to say Dollhouse went badly for Eliza Dushku’s career. Her per-episode salary was more than Sarah Michelle Gellar made for Ringer .

    Eliza had a development deal, was a producer on Dollhouse , and Dollhouse allowed her to try to show her acting range.

    Plus, Dollhouse wasn’t a boring procedural and it was political. Eliza very likely doesn’t regret doing it.

    Eliza Dusku likely netted well into the 7-figures each for DH S1 and DH S2.

    EDIT: Mike if you want to discuss politics there is a forum for that.
    2018 C.E. is an election year in the United States. A very important one. It’s the main reason I’m not posting here as much.

    ____________________________________

    [Joss Whedon] has been such a crazy pants for a while I tend not to go looking for him. [/quote] Huh?



    DeepBlueJoy

    It doesn't really surprise me that nearly ALL the most successful and richest alumni of the jossverse are male.
    Huh?

    According to CelebrityNetWorth.com:

    David Boreanaz and Alyson Hannigan each has around $30MM.

    Seth Green has around $25MM.

    Sarah Michelle Gellar has around $20MM.

    Nathan Fillion has around $18MM.

    Eliza Dushku has around $10MM.

    Michelle Trachtenberg has around $9MM.

    James Marsters has around $5MM.

    Nicholas Brendan, Anthony Stewart Head, and Marc Blucas each has around $3MM.

    Regarding the writers, the main writers of BtVS are all successful.

    by the time they were done with the Jossverse, several of the females were burned out or just 'burned' by the experience. SMG and CC being the two that come to mind.
    I remember SMG wanted to spend more time with Freddie Prinze Jr. I remember SMG was offered up to $850K/ep for BtVS S8. SMG prior to BtVS S6 made more money off her fame from being Buffy—such as her very lucrative Maybelline contract—than playing the character. I remember SMG got $3MM for her wedding photos and $9MM for the post-BtVS Esquire interview and exclusive photos. I remember SMG made a lot of backend for The Grudge and then fired CAA (which was probably her biggest career mistake). SMG should have made The Grudge her franchise and she should have easily gotten $10-15MM salary for The Grudge 2 instead of doing a glorified cameo.

    Allyson has done well, but she had a successful career before her excursions into the jossverse.
    Of the actors, Seth Green was the most successful prior to the Buffyverse. SMG was the second most successful prior to the Buffyverse.



    Alce

    Actually seeing [Sarah Michelle Gellar] in roles outside of Buffy I think she would never get so many chances for work without BtVS. She isn't Jodie Foster level of actress for god's sake. She's not even Julia Roberts for that matter.
    I Know What You Did Last Summer and Cruel Intentions proved Sarah Michelle Gellar could have been as or more successful than Reese Withersoon. BtVS limited Sarah’s ability to play roles. Time constraints from All My Children prevented SMG from playing opposite Leonardo DiCaprio in Romeo and Juliet and from playing Cher in Clueless .

    BtVS prevented SMG from having the career Reese had. That and Reese got with Ryan Phillipe.



    TimeTravellingBunny

    SMG was brilliant as Buffy, but she doesn't seem to care that much for acting career compared to her family and her cooking empire.
    Ringer was cancelled [/i]. The Crazy Ones was cancelled. The Cruel Intentions TV show wasn’t picked up. It’s not as if SMG/P currently has much of an acting career.

    [Alyson Hannigan] and [David Borenaz] have both been most successful out of the Buffy cast (other than ASH and maybe Michelle)
    See my above list. Seth Green, SMG, and Eliza Dushku are more successful than Michelle Trachtenberg. Anthony Stewart Head is relatively one of the least successful actors of the cast of BtVS.



    Priceless

    I have no doubt whatsoever that if SMG told her agent she wanted to concentrate on getting her acting career up and running again, the jobs would come flooding in. I think AH and DB just like to work, while SMG has found other avenues for her creativity.
    I reason the Cruel Intentions TV series was desperation on SMG’s part.

    SMG made bad career choices post-BtVS (including not doing BtVS S8 and firing CAA).

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